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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 2/26/2009 11:04:09 AM |
Additionally, I believe the the Young Offenders Act should be scrapped, these days you can't blame childrens actions on ignorance.
They should smoke the 9 year old in Arizona that killed his father? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 2/26/2009 8:18:42 PM | If you don't value life, then life has no value.
If you want to save money, and life is worth less than money, then why not just make any long term prison sentence subject to a death penalty ?
Is a twenty year sentence for drug dealing or kidnapping any less costly than a fifty year old that's sentenced to life ? If saving money is your motivation, then you should execute all the "three strike" offenders in states that have such legislation. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/1/2009 12:58:51 PM | I believe that all life is precious, and specially human life...
capital punishment is a crime against human life... if some spiritually ignorant idiots punish for murder by murder without giving a chance for improvement, then they are the worst murderers... | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/1/2009 5:25:24 PM | Get serious.
Capital punishment doesn't happen overnight--it can take years and years of appeals. Meanwhile, the victim is still dead. The victim's family still gets to face a life sentence without their loved one.
There is nothing 'spiritually ignorant' about a measured process by which a person is found guilty of a capital crime.
And, btw, it isn't 'murder' in the sense that purposely killing a child is.
"...without giving a chance for improvement..."
'Improvement'?
Do you honestly believe that a pedophile/child murderer is going to 'improve'? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/1/2009 5:31:08 PM | There are lots of murderers I would dearly love see put to death. But that's an emotional argument. Rationally, I know that any system of human justice is going to make mistakes. And there's no making that punishment right if you do.
Furthermore, nobody does a cost/benefit analysis about punishment before they commit murder - 25 years to life isn't any less of a deterent than death if they think they're going to be caught. This is especially true in the case of the monsters I would gladly pull the switch for myself.
It doesn't save innocent lives, but it sure as hell takes some. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/3/2009 9:09:12 AM | we should wish and do the best for ourselves and for others, without discrimination...
remember the good advice ? - 'don't do to others what you don't want to be done to you' and if not for any moral reasons then at least for selfish reasons because 'what goes around, comes around'... | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/3/2009 11:52:07 AM |
They should smoke the 9 year old in Arizona that killed his father?
Nah, throw him in juvie where he learns to be a good hardened criminal, let him out when he's 18. Chances are he'll back in the system before he's twenty. Rehabilitate again and let him out again, and then when he comes back that third time. Smoke him - like a doobie. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/3/2009 5:07:43 PM | | Those who know me might be suprised by this.....but i am for capital punishment. Not in every case, not for ever single commiter of a certain crime. On a case by case basis, determined by severity of offence, nature, circumstances and mental state. Someone like Paul Bernardo....for those that dont know, just goggle it...people like him should not be a burden on the resources of society. It costs over $1,000,000(CND) to keep that guy in the facility that he is in, and cared for the way he is. I can build a long drop for less than 1% of that. That would 'smoke' a whole lotta dangerous individuals for a lot less than the money it takes to keep one alive for just on year of his life sentence (and in canada, '25 - life' means 20 or so years....but 'life' means your pulse will stop of natrual causes before you see the outside of that cell.) It's still capital punishment.....just exceedingly inefficent. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/3/2009 7:24:04 PM | I think the electric chair should be located in the court room. Slap the gavel and flip the switch at the same time. And put the execution on television in primetime. The "Scared Straight" program would be child's play compared to the "Ride the Lightning Show" aired in the time slot after, "America's Most Wanted."
"The 'Ride the Lightning Show' was brought to you in part by "Die Hard Batteries" and General Electric..."GE, we bring good things to life." | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/3/2009 7:41:31 PM | Christ said 'no' to capital punishment. Several places.
Any Christian in favor of capital punishment is not really a Christian ... more likely a Biblicist pretending to be a christian. They follow the teachings of the Jews and the epistles instead of the teachings of Christ. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/4/2009 11:47:29 AM | cncgandolf or anyone else,
could you please explain how, in terms of capital punishment, the teachings of the Jews are different from the teachings of Jesus ? By the way, i heard that Jesus was a Jew, is it true? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/4/2009 12:31:23 PM | In short the Jewish rules for capital punishment are very complicated and RARELY handed out. It was said that a Talmudic court that gave out one death sentence in seven years was "bloodthirsty" so if that is an indication of how often a death sentence was carried out, it was almost never when compensation could be done instead. You had to have three witnesses of unimpeachable holiness actually see someone commit the crime before you had an ironclad case.
Jesus, raised as a Jew would have been taught these same rules. His words basically confirm this and don't tell you anything new but seem to give you the impression that the Jewish law stops at an eye for an eye which it certainly does not. If you read the words of the Gospel, it reads as if written by someone who only had surface familiarity with Jewish Law...as if only hearing it in passing...any Jew in that day and age would have seemed to know this. It casts doubt in my mind that the Gospel writer was a Jew in that place and age not to know the actual nature of the Talmudic court.
Jewish Law is very specific, very detailed and has situational examples covered for just about any instance you can think of with appropriate compensation or decision.
Whoever wrote that Gospel was not familiar with this. To me this casts a great deal of doubt on the writer's origins.
In either case however, neither Jewish Law nor Jesus provide a support for those seeking capital punishment so they ought to forget it...apparently they don't know their Bibles as well as they thought...Jesus certainly doesn't and those calling themselves Christians need to really re-evaluate their stance on capital punishment because it is singularly un-Christian to support it. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 3/22/2009 7:06:41 PM |
They should smoke the 9 year old in Arizona that killed his father?
No. Just the idiots on this thread for being stupid.
Scraping the young offenders act doesn't mean killing 9 year olds, who commit crimes by accident, it means the Canadian justice system takes a serious stance on crimes committed by young "adults" who kill people and get away with it because they can hide behind a system that claims they are children, and are not mature enough to understand the consequences of thier actions. Most of us know that's a crock of shit, right? We were all 16 once right and knew exactly what we were doing?
Drug dealers running around town doing drive by shootings, stealing cars running people over, robbing banks, and assinations, aren't children they are hard criminals that will do anything for street cred.
Perhaps, those of you who have children should think what you would want done to the ***hole who pulled the trigger and shot your child, in a drive by shooting. And it was by mistake;
"My bad maam, da' homey I wanted dead stepped on my brand new Nike running shoes."
How would that come accross to you? Would you say?
"Oh, poor young offender, I forgive you, you don't know what you did when you splattered my young brite child brains all over the sidewalk with a 9mm handgun. I forgive you sweetie boy." Let's give the poor young man a hand, and let him go free to live his life.
It's always easy to take the righteous side, and turn the other cheek when you're not directly involved, or have enough balls to do it yourself, pass the buck to someone else right, woosie? So, please let's get real.
If it were my child, I'd be the first one in line to pull the trigger on the biach. Where do I sign up?
If you're NOT gonna' lock those sick ****ers up for "hard" full life sentences, then yes, smoke their asses. And yes if the 9yr. old is deemed a psycho, like all the other sicko' serial killers, who were psycho when they were 9yrs' old, and you haven't any plans of keeping him locked up, then smoke his ass too.
Yes. The truth hurts sometimes, but, non the less it's the truth. Young people now are not that same as when we were their age. Here in Canada there is a case of a young girl and her boyfriend who planned / killed another young teenager, as the trial goes on for the young girl she has this calous cold attitude as if who the **** cares she just took the life of another human being. So, let's give her a hand too, and let her go free like Carla Hamolka right, poor young girls don't know what their doing. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/4/2009 2:46:43 AM |
cncgandolf or anyone else,
could you please explain how, in terms of capital punishment, the teachings of the Jews are different from the teachings of Jesus ? By the way, i heard that Jesus was a Jew, is it true?
The Old Testament mandates the death penalty for a number of crimes, by a number of means, including stoning. Jesus, on the other hand, rejects the death penalty in an instance in John 8, where he famously says, "Let he who has not sinned, throw the first stone." Jesus also explicitly rejects the old "law" in favor of a new law of grace, and with that, presumably suggests that the way is no longer through the harsh penalties described in the Old Testament. So yes, Jesus was a Jew, but the whole point of his existence (if you believe in his testimony) is as a release from the "LAW" of the Old Testament in favor of a New Covenant based on Grace (this is the essence of his radicalism): belief in the LOVE Of God over the LAW dominating the Old Covenant.
Jesus, of course, was executed...so one might be able to argue that in being executed himself he valorized execution. But then, one would have to, IMO, then be prepared to say that Jesus SHOULD have been executed. To me it seems pretty clear that if a Christian can find a place where Jesus recommends killing, he might have an argument in favor of execution consistent with his faith. Until then, I see a Christian arguing in favor of execution as a Christian blaspheming. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/6/2009 7:37:30 PM | For Capital punishment.
If there is no question the crime was committed by the accused then definitely execute him. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/6/2009 10:11:45 PM |
If there is no question the crime was committed by the accused then definitely execute him.
Supposedly according to the current legal system if somebody is found guilty there is no question. Unfortunately that is not true. The system is inherently fallable. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/6/2009 11:43:28 PM |
The Old Testament mandates the death penalty for a number of crimes, by a number of means, including stoning. Jesus, on the other hand, rejects the death penalty in an instance in John 8,...
See my post, two posts up.
A full understanding of the Oral Law, Talmud and Mishnah is necessary to understand how rarely the death penalty was ever administered under Biblical Law (almost never) and only under the most ironclad of evidence (as in three people of unimpeachable holiness had to see you do it).
Jesus was executed under Roman Law which was, of course, far more broad in handing out death penalties...kinda like Texas under Bush.
Also it is Paul's writings, not the words of Jesus himself, that speak of becoming exempt from the Old Law or under a New Law of grace...Jesus, in words attributed to him, in fact makes clear he has not come to do away with the Law. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/7/2009 5:55:14 AM | in fact makes clear he has not come to do away with the Law.
Exactly.
Matthew 5:17-18, “Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish, but to fulfill. For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from the Law, until all is accomplished.” | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/13/2009 5:27:59 PM | [qoute]If your child was the victim of a sex offender, what would you say then???
This brings up a good point. For those who support execution, what is the goal? In general, there are many "justifications" for various punishments in our legal system. It is always a good idea to think about motivation and about what we want to accomplish: Retribution? Safety for society? Restitution? Punishment? Rehabilitation? Deterrence? A combination of these?
In the quote above, retribution seems to be the priority. Personally I don't believe that our justice system should be based primarily on retribution. There is a reason that we condemn vigilante justice. It's a bad idea. That doesn't change when we get really, really upset.
A few years ago someone in my world was murdered and I did start to rethink my position on capital punishment. It was an interesting process because I could clearly feel the shifts in my opinion as I went through the grief process. For a while I think I was in support of it (although never gungho.) I am now firmly back to where I was.
PERHAPS we are able to make "wise" decisions when we are emotional but there is no guarantee. If it is a good idea when you are upset it will still be a good idea when you have calmed down/recovered. The quote above is not any sort of rational argument for capital punishment. If you support execution to promote retribution, just say it. But don't try to stir emotions to elicit the response that you want. It's intellectually dishonest. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/22/2009 5:04:16 PM | I think too many people on both sides of this issue tend to argue it more from an emotional standpoint than from a logical one.
Logically, the death penalty makes sense to me. But it shouldn't be used flippantly. It should only be used in cases that warrant it where the evidence against the accused is pretty clear cut.
Here's why it makes sense to me. Too many kids today view going to jail as a badge of honor. They want to get busted. They want to get locked up. It gives them status points. Then while they're in jail, they do nothing but get bigger and stronger and learn how to be better criminals so that when they get out, they're even more dangerous.
As long as jail as seen as a good thing, it is not an effective deterrent.
Being put to death does not allow the offender the opportunity to revel in their antisocial clout. It simply takes them out of society permanently thus preventing them from doing any more damage.
And to those who say we should give them all life in prison instead, bear in mind that prisons are already overcrowded. Offenders are already getting let out early because there is no place to put them. To lock every murderer away for life only contributes to this problem. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/22/2009 5:36:22 PM | And to those who say we should give them all life in prison instead, bear in mind that prisons are already overcrowded. Offenders are already getting let out early because there is no place to put them. To lock every murderer away for life only contributes to this problem.
Few would argue against the notion that life in prison is a far worse punishment than death. I know I would much rather be executed than spend the next 40 years in prison. Statistics show that 70+% of those currently incarcerated in this country are non-violent first-time drug "offenders."
Prisons are over-crowded due to ridiculous and unproductive drug laws, and a lifetime in prison IS a far worse punishment than a merciful death. The solution seems obvious to me. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 4/27/2009 10:10:16 AM | imo capital punishment is nothing more then revenge. it does nothing to bring back a life taken unlawfully, nor does it do anything to take away the loss and pain felt by family and friends after such a crime.
i have never been a supporter of capital punishment, and instead consider life imprisonment to be a far worse fate. i do think the costs of harboring prisoners is too much though...and what's with the free healthcare and dental? at the very least they should be required to do something productive...perhaps we should bring back the chain gang...not sure... it's a tough call...but i don't suppor capital punshiment...never have...
lar | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 5/6/2009 10:54:10 PM | You have to again look at human nature over time, and realize it for what it is.
As people were being hung in "the good old days" for theft, pickpockets prowled the crowd looking for distracted targets enjoying the process.
In Saudi Arabia, very strict and brutal retribution is carried out regularly against certain criminals.
Under the Gulf kingdom's strict Islamic Sharia laws, the death penalty can be imposed for murder, rape, apostasy, armed robbery, drug trafficking and repeated drug use.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2966790.stm
At least 158 people, including 76 foreign nationals, were executed by the Saudi Arabian authorities in 2007, and at least 102 people, including almost 40 foreign nationals were executed in 2008. Since the beginning of 2009, a further 24 people are known to have been executed.
Saudi Arabia applies the death penalty for a wide range of offences. Court proceedings fall far short of international standards for fair trial. Defendants are rarely allowed formal representation by a lawyer, and in many cases are not informed of the progress of legal proceedings against them. Prisoners under sentence of death may not be informed of the date of execution until the morning when they are taken out and beheaded. They may be convicted solely on the basis of confessions obtained under duress or deception.
http://www.amnesty.org/en/library/asset/MDE23/008/2009/en/0d22f519-1efb-4deb-b32d-306f0717b904/mde230082009eng.html
Go back in time there, and look at their history of such use of the death penalty over all these hundreds of years.
Crimes still get committed, and the Saudi executioners will still be employed for the rest of their lives and working.
Most criminals never expect to be caught, and think THEY will be the ones to get away with it.
Others commit crimes to , in effect, commit suicide using the system.
Stoning adulterers didn't seem to stop adultery in the overall population in Biblical times - or even today, in societies where such things are still done.
Especially as a Christian, based on Christ's own example in stopping an execution (not to even mention the great irony of Him being killed by the state), supporting the death penalty is wrong. He either performed that act as some sort of accident, or He did it to show He was against it. 
If that was good enough for Him......  | |
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