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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 52 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:34:28 PM | | I could point out parts of the a certain little black book that shares a certain omniscient divine beings' perspective on enstating pro-capital punishment laws...but this would be the wrong forum for that kind of dirty talk. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 9:43:45 PM | I'm not familiar with Canadian law, as you know garf, but down in these here parts we've got what's called separation of church and state. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 55 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/8/2005 10:00:36 PM | Not familiar with that..NL, I'll have to have some elaboration/crash course education on the subject before I get into that.
*edit* It's also called keeping religion in the religion forum...and away from me for a few days at least! LOL | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 7:24:27 PM | | I support bringing back the public hangings from the 1700's, 1800's, 1900's, especially for Democrats and liberals. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 7:26:17 PM | | If you watch the Godfather movies or Goodfellas, these wiseguys took prison sentences as all a part of the game. Unless you make the punishment harsher, these good ol' boys will keep doing their hits and murders, etc. etc. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 59 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 7:31:09 PM | Stealth: I'll agree with your second post 100%, but the first one is a little....extreme.
Can't argue about the price of rope, though. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 9:45:43 PM | I believe that in the USA, Congress should create a new court of appeals for the USA at large, with exclusive subject matter jurisdiction in death penalty cases.
This abolishes the nuisances created when one judicial circuit holds contrary to another judicial circuit's decisions, which requires the US Supreme Court to resolve the conflicts among Circuit Courts.
The conflicts among Circuits is one of the chief causes of endless appeals lasting almost two decades prior to execution.
So Congress passing a law that creates a new Court of Appeals with USA at-large territorial jurisdiction and divesting all other circuit courts of death penalty appellate jurisdiction would reduce the wait on death row from 15 years plus, to somewhere around 18 months prior to execution. All appeals from this proposed Circuit Court of Capital Appeals would lie exclusively to the US Supreme Court, and that appeal is DISCRETIONARY on the part of the US Supreme Court, which means it usually dismisses without hearing most of the appeals, leaving the opinion of the Circuit Court of Capital Appeals standing without comment. I am suggesting that there be 13 Circuit Judges appointed to this new Circuit Court of Capital Appeals for the USA at-large, each of whom would logically be quite learned in capital case law affairs.
And the method of execution, which under federal law for federal prisoners is always to use the state's method of execution in the state where the sentence shall be carried out should be abolished.
I favor a quick death and immediate surgical harvesting of any organs that are suitable for transplant. I would like to employ the guilotine to execute criminals, since lethal injection and gas chamber "poisons" the otherwise transplantable organs; hanging stresses the otherwise transplantable organs; the electric chair cooks the otherwise transplantable organs, shooting destroys the otherwise transplantable heart.
After the guilotine is used to execute criminals, it would be a great crime deterent if the head were placed in a large jar with formaldehyde, the organs should be harvested, and the residue of the executed criminal's body released to his or her family for burial.
And newly processed intake or released criminals should walk in and out of the prison door by walking into "the Hall of Jars" with all of the guillotined heads in formaldehyde being on display.
Each new prisoner should be issued a personal unbreakable plastic jar upon entry into the Hall of Jars, and be told this unbreakable space age plastic jar is to keep his personal possessions in during his stay in prison; however, if he or she "gets out of line" there is a higher and better residual use for the jar.
Each prisoner to be released should tote his jar to the prison door, and then surrender his jar as the last act of an incarcerated criminal on the day of his release from prison.
Juvenile detainees should also be processed in the same Hall of Jars, prior to being issued his or her personal jar and being assigned and transported to a juvenile detention facility, with the opportunity being utilized to "scare him (or her) straight"
Capital punishment is never a good thing, but it appears to be a necessary thing.
The Executioner has a name; it is We the People.
Capital punishment excises the unworthy from our midst, preserving the public safety of the rest of us.
There has never been a prison break from any grave that is situated within a prison cemetery, nor has any executed criminal ever gotten off on a technicality after being executed.
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 61 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 9:48:58 PM | HEADS IN JARS?!? 
Wacky. Also more than likely it's cruel and unusual punishment. Certainly unusual, that's for sure. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 10:10:32 PM | And the photographed bodies of slain gangsters, like John Dillinger or Bonnie and Clyde were any more horrible than a swift guillotine severing of a head with immediate placement in formaldehyde to be used as a tool to strike mortal fear into the hearts of incarcerated criminals, when they meet the Prison Warden for the first time and he tells them to be sure to not lose their head and to obey all prison regulations during their stay behind bars?
No, dont cry for Julius Rosenberg or Ted Bundy or any of their successors as Scum of the Earth. Cry instead for the victims of the murderers. Cry for Charles Lindberg because his infant son was kidnapped and murdered. Cry for all America being the victim of the Rosenbergs giving the Soviet Union the atomic secrets, betraying all Americans with their traitorous treachery. Cry for the widows and orphans whose loved one was murdered.
Dont cry for the cold and callous denizens of death row.
The fundamental difference between executed serial killers and long-serving Prison Wardens is that while both of them killed many persons during their careers, one was a rogue who had no respect for the Rule of Law and the other suffered and took no joy in administering the imposition of death sentences imposed by virtue of law, as the authorized representative of a people who need the protection of the law.
A trial Judge in Nebraska once openly wept from the bench when sentencing a criminal to suffer the death penalty, saying that he had dreaded the necessity of that judicial moment ever since becomming a Judge. An honorable and kind hearted man doing his sworn duty under the law. Who cannot admire such a public servant? | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 10:15:16 PM | I cry for having to read your long boring posts *WAAAAAAAAAAA*SOB*SOB*
It is to squirm...
I'll cry for anyone who's on death row that's innocent... and that's been a LOT of people... and I'll weep for joy when they get cut loose on DNA evidence.
Guilty ones?
Let them live in prison... just to make sure they had a chance in case they were innocent. Otherwise, it's the civil thing to do. It doesn't make us the beast that they were in murder. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 10:30:09 PM | If you kill someone you forfiet your life, and if a court can prove you killed someone then you deserve to have the death penalty as a possible sentence.
I do not have Dan's synical view of the justice system, but yes some people are found innocent of passed crimes but less so now that they can do DNA testing up front. And the "CSI" affect is now working for defense attorneys in that most police forces can not do a lot of advance forensic testing to proscute murderers. So some are getting off or at least reduced sentences because people watch that show and expect DNA or other advance methods of evidence gathering. And their are at least 3 rounds of appeals to get an inmate to his or her death sentence.
So you have your chances to prove your innocence. If you have committed the most evil acts a human can perform (murder, rape or both) then the state has the right to take your life. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 10:37:10 PM | In the USA, the federal laws now authorize CIA death squads to take out enemies of the United States, much like the James Bond "Double 00 designation" being a license to kill pursuant to state sanction, those persons who would otherwise be beyond the reach of a federal criminal court.
That is why CIA remote controlled missle equipped drones are taking out targets such as motor vehicles in Yemen or rooms in buildings known to be occupied by the targets of the CIA death squads, in Afghanistan.
The sanctions of covertly "terminating with prejudice" these kind of terrorists or other enemies of the United States are also instances of a new form of American public executions.
It is not possible to warehouse in prison all persons deserving of the death penalty.
Compassion tells us not to execute any person; reality forces public execution upon us.
Let us never rejoice over a public execution. Each one is a trajedy and deserving of a moment of mourning.
Sure we make mistakes. It is possible to execute an innocent man; it is also possible for an American soldier to be killed by "friendly fire." Should we in good faith, execute an innocent man, that person is also much like the victim of "friendly fire" that was intended to dispose of another person, the real criminal culprit.
When the British Police shot the wrong man in the head 5 times, believing that he was a terrorist about to detonate yet another subway bomb, that too is an example of a death under "friendly fire" circumstances, since the lethal fire was intended for the bona fide subway bomber(s) at the hands of law enforcement personnel in possession of a "Double 00 license to kill" whose noble cause is the protection of the realm against terrorists that the public safety requires be terminated with prejudice, using all deliberate speed. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/11/2005 11:08:43 PM | I have a rather complex view of capital punishment. In some instances, I am for it. However I don't believe a person should get the death penalty in a case about that 19 year old kid who goes to that gas station with the colt .45 and robs it and the attendant makes a move (it could be potentially harmful to the young robber like him reaching for that sawed off shotgun underneath the till or a totally innocent action) but either way the kid becomes scared and panics and blows a three inch hole into his head or chest.
I live in Canada which doesn't have the same level of violence that the U.S experiences but Canada has had some pretty psychotic killers in its history (Allan Legere, Paul Bernardo, Clifford Olson, Robert Pickton) and I do believe that people like that should get the death penalty. As I read in another posting earlier in this thread which I have to say I agree to, when you commit a heinous act of murder one and possibly other crimes such as rape, sodomy etc. tied in with it, you are forfeiting your status as a human being. You are saying "I do not feel what everyone else feels. I do not feel emotion, compassion, remorse, happieness or sadness. I am a stone cold person". Many of these people (albeit they usually summer from some form of mental illness) don't know the difference between right and wrong. Others do but simply do not care. I think they should be put on trial, recommended for the death penalty, have it proven beyond the shadow of a doubt that they did it and then they should be executed. They are no good in prison. There is no chance of people like what I'm describing being "rehabilitated" and seeing the light of day again and becoming functioning citizens. Rehabilitation? That's just a made up word a lot of the time. It's overzealously-optimistic liberal politicians who don't want to spend the money to house these people who come up with the notion that stone cold killers (first degree murderers and the worst of the worst) and rapists and child molesters can be rehabilitated and becoming functioning citizens again.
One of the main differences between Canada and the United States is both countries are led by people who have COMPLETELY different mind sets. Canada is run by a bunch of beauroctatic extreme left wing liberals who probably smoked marijuana or things worse addictively in college and the U.S is run by a bunch of neo cons | |
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grog27
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Joined: 2/25/2005
Msg: 67 | |
| Capital Punishment~ for or against?/Not a deterrent...
Posted: 8/11/2005 11:25:34 PM | | I agree with HumanBean. One thing that's always annoyed me about the anti-capital punishment argument is the stance that it's not really a deterrent. Well...DUH!!! It's called capital PUNISHMENT, not capital DETERRENT!! As far as I'm concerned, the whole "it's not a deterrent" argument is just a giant red herring. Jerks like Olson and Bernardo should be booked immediately for a dirt nap. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 5:01:48 AM | | The inequality of the justice system discriminates againest the poor, or middle class who can't afford a top bunch of lawyers. Due to this fact and the other that too many wealthy people, and those in high authoritative positions commit murder every day by various sneaky techniques of cruelty, I would never convict anybody again. I will not serve on any jury unless I choose too use this knowledge in behalf of many defendants who may have been framed, or there might exist one tiny shawdow of doubt. Prosecutors would not like me much. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 5:14:14 AM | | Personally, I believe in releasing a huge number of inmates who are not in jail for murder, but less heinous crimes. We send too many to prison, and the simple breaking sometimes of a parole condition does NOT warrant sending a man nor woman back to prison. The costs of prison maintenance is too high, too many perks are now available, especially in dental care, and such conveniences should be abolished. Only emergency care should be the order in prison. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 5:18:58 AM | | Less taxpayer costs is one big reason. Many in prison simply don't belong there. Society should learn to take care of itself. One reason I am so Pro-Gun ownership, and right to carry. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 6:03:49 AM | "The inequality of the justice system discriminates againest the poor, or middle class who can't afford a top bunch of lawyers."
The above reply is a serious concern and those who have dedicated their lives to the administration of justice acknowledge its validity.
It is time that a Constitutional Amendment create a "level playing field" in the legal arena. The prosecution enjoys practically unlimited manpower (prosecutors) and investigative resources (police) which fundamental fairness requires be matched by the defense in any capital punishment case.
That is why I favor the establishment of the elected position of Defender General as the counterpart of the Attorney General, with all public defenders being assigned to the Department of the Defender General. The Defender General should be assisted by a swarm of duly deputized state Special Agents who conduct investigations for the benefit of the Defense. Should a Defender General investigation establish the probable guilt of another party, the report of the Defender General should be filed with the Grand Jury for consideration of indictment and prosecution.
Socialized legal care for capital case defendants is well in order when resources make the determination about the availabilty of justice, which can never be for sale or denied due to lack of financial ability to pay.
Defendants who can afford to retain legal counsel would retain the right to employ "additional counsel" such as lawyers from the "Innocense Project" or other "dream team" attorneys to augment the Defenders General or act as lead counsel in any particular case.
If we believe in capital punishment, we must as a matter of law provide superlative legal defense tools for any defendant facing death row.
In like manner as there are Investigative Judges in Europe, there should also be Investigative Judges who are judicial officers available to the Defenders General, should it be necessary to obtain search warrants (for instance when the defense theory centers on the guilt of an unindicted third party) or other judicial process aiding a Capital Defendant's case.
Equal protection under the law requires access to equal resources from the public purse that the prosecution and police enjoy. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 6:21:12 AM | I am fully in support of capital punishment.
I would like to add that legalwizard has a very interesting proposal. | |
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| Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 6:27:33 AM | on the topic question... against... because...
it's morally wrong, in that murder is wrong and two wrongs don't make a right.
it is not a deterrent, if it were, murder rates in the us would be lower than in europe, where there is no death penalty and this is not so, in fact, the usa has the highest murder rate per capita of any other country in the world. also, psychopaths, and ppl with anti-social personality disorder or narcissistic personality disorder, who account for most of the crimes that fall under the requirements for the death penalty, have a totally different set of morals than the societies they live in, are rarely moved by fear of incarceration or death... they mostly think they are far to clever to be caught... but also are not particularly susceptible to fear of anything.
capital punishment is barbaric and stems from revenge... a very unhealthy emotion that causes a whole lot of trouble in the world... if your gov't says revenge is ok, well then, i guess most think what's good for the goose is just dandy for the gander, no?
and not to put a price on human life... that is certainly not my point... but it costs a lot of taxpayers' dollars to put someone to death... far more than to keep them in prison for life, where at least they might be doing some useful hard labour, or being fodder for psycho-sociological studies as to WHY murder is so prevelant in the us. this money could be used to benefit non-criminals, you know, regular people like you and me, in providing better educational facilities, safer roadways, more complete health programs etc, rather than being spent on the execution of one person.... it's ridiculous and wasteful all the way around. (and isn't the us already spending far too much dinero per day on killing already?)
prevention of this type of behaviour begins in schools and in the home, and the cure is not more murder... that's just a bad lesson of 'kill the **stard' for the youth of america.
imo, re-instating the death penalty in so many us states is a big sad step backwards in the evolution of humankind.
anyone interested in abolishing the death penalty or who would like more facts and statistics on this subject should visit the appropriate section in amnesty international, and sign the petitions!! | |
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