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 Author Thread: Capital Punishment~ for or against?
 FictionWriter901

Joined: 1/5/2005
Msg: 76
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:03:32 AM
I'm for it. John Dewey referred to it as society's right to retribution in kind, and there are cases out there that call for such retribution.
 leanhaunshee

Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 77
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History
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:19:54 AM
revenge... you mean revenge.... saying retribution to try and make it sound pretty doesn't change the meaning... you consider the death penalty to be justifiable homicide, but for revenge... eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, very nice.
 FictionWriter901

Joined: 1/5/2005
Msg: 78
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:26:17 AM
Well, to give you an example, I'd like to see those pedophiles convicted of raping and murdering innocent children executed for their crimes. With that appropriate sentence carried out we never would have to worry about such predators being released by some short-sighted parole board so they could get out and kill again. An eye for an eye definitely works for me in that regard...call it revenge or whatever you want.
 PatsFan69

Joined: 6/15/2005
Msg: 79
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History
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:48:49 AM

eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, very nice.


If you steal, you lose a hand. If you kill, you die. If you rape, you lose your twig and berries.

If you commited a crime punishable by death, I am very much in favor of public hangings AND public stonings.
 team green

Joined: 8/6/2005
Msg: 80
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:51:13 AM
^^^^^^AGREED
 leanhaunshee

Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 81
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History
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:52:59 AM
if you steal you lose your hand?????? so i guess next time one of your kids is caught shoplifting.... chop chop it is!!!! how is that right, and as it's the first thought in that post... i have to ask what country you're living in... oh and with those values... please stay right there.... and if this is the way the usa is going... by all means close the borders, to those with such values who might think of leaving and spreading their angry poison. apply it to yourself before you apply it to anyone else.... stoning... stone age mentality.
 heavenscherubangel

Joined: 7/23/2005
Msg: 82
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 12:28:03 PM
@ leanhaunshee.......
 Montreal_Guy

Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 83
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Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 1:59:21 PM
I would be for it , if the legal system could give a fair trial to those without money.

Only for those murders of the most foul kind. Serial murderers, child killers, people who kill for money.

Crimes of passion are another thing, and I don't think they qualify for death.

Also, there would have to be an incredibly high standard. DNA proof, witnesses, and a lot more. There would have to be virtually no doubt of guilt.

It's rather strange how few millionaires have been executed. It's probably just coincidence.
 SICutie

Joined: 6/8/2005
Msg: 84
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 2:07:00 PM
^^^^^^^^^^

i'm against it. it costs more to kill someone than it dos to give them life in prison. however, life should mean life
 Im listening

Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 85
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 2:31:24 PM
Capital punishment?
Hmm?
We get top punish those in the Capitol?

works for me! Great place to start!
 SICutie

Joined: 6/8/2005
Msg: 86
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 2:46:50 PM
then i'm for it too!!
 beachcomberb

Joined: 11/16/2004
Msg: 87
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 3:12:06 PM
legalwizard wrote,"That is why I favor the establishment of the elected position of Defender General as the counterpart of the Attorney General, with all public defenders being assigned to the Department of the Defender General."

LW-That's a great idea. I vote in MO and if it's ever on the ballot you can count on my vote.
You won't mind if I vote Libertarian otherwise,willya?
 NittanyLion

Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 88
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 3:17:58 PM
Yikes.
 Huisatcheman

Joined: 7/31/2005
Msg: 89
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 3:39:28 PM
Those who are wrong will be judged soon enough. WE are not the supreme makers of decisions. What we do will be used in our defense or condemnation at our own Waterloos. I elect the retention of firearms in the interest of our individual and national defense in the event of government complete inadequacy. But to judge death upon the poor, and defenseless is wrong. Better to condemn the rich who can afford the best, and if they lose, so be it in rightful condemnation. But less obvious is the condemnation of one who has not the ability to defend due to lack of filthy lucre.
 kce33

Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 90
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 7:52:30 PM
well, i'm for the death penalty for murder, rape, abuse and any crime aginst children..
this was on a couple tv programs a couple months ago..
i can't remember the exact number, but we have 1 or 2 million inmates... it was stated that it cost the tax payers 30,000 dollars a year to keep each prisoner in prision for one year...

that is 1 hell of a lot of money that could be better spent on hospitals, schools, seniors and still provide total health care for every citizen.. and get the poor homeless people off the streets....


and it only cost a couple of bucks to kill them..

even 7 of the 10 commandments require the death penalty....

heres another kicker, the legal system has the laws changed around so bad that the criminals have all the rights and are protected by the system, victoms have no rights
 Garf

Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 91
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 9:06:26 PM
There's over 4,000,000 people in the penal system in the States on drug charges alone.
That's more than the entire penal population of Europe.
 leanhaunshee

Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 92
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Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 9:28:18 PM
kce33, i don't know where you got your information, but i can tell you that it is NOT cheaper to kill the convict than it is to house him in prison for life... not even close... the total cost of a capital trial depends on the state, and most of the money is spent in the initial trial, nevermind what all the appeals come to....

go to the amnesty international website if you want to see the stats.

for general support of human rights all over the world....

main amnesty international site: http://www.amnesty.org/
amnesty international usa site: http://www.amnestyusa.org/

campaign against the death penalty:
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-index-eng

excerpt: The death penalty is the ultimate cruel, inhuman and degrading punishment.

It violates the right to life.

It is irrevocable and can be inflicted on the innocent.

It has never been shown to deter crime more effectively than other punishments.


Facts & Figures on the Death Penalty:
http://web.amnesty.org/pages/deathpenalty-facts-eng

excerpt: Since 1973, 119 prisoners have been released in the USA after evidence emerged of their innocence of the crimes for which they were sentenced to death. There were six such cases in 2004 and two up to June 2005. Some prisoners had come close to execution after spending many years under sentence of death.



and lastly from here - http://www.amnestyusa.org/abolish/cost.html :

The Death Penalty Costs More

"Elimination of the death penalty would result in a net savings to the state of at least several tens of millions of dollars annually, and a net savings to local governments in the millions to tens of millions of dollars on a statewide basis."
-- Joint Legislative Budget Committee of the California Legislature, Sept. 9, 1999

Recent Cost Studies

A 2003 legislative audit in Kansas found that the estimated cost of a death penalty case was 70% more than the cost of a comparable non-death penalty case. Death penalty case costs were counted through to execution (median cost $1.26 million). Non-death penalty case costs were counted through to the end of incarceration (median cost $740,000).
(December 2003 Survey by the Kansas Legislative Post Audit)

The estimated costs for the death penalty in New York since 1995 (when it was reinstated): $160 million, or approximately $23 million for each person sentenced to death. To date, no executions have been carried out.
(The Times Union, Sept. 22, 2003)

In Tennessee, death penalty trials cost an average of 48% more than the average cost of trials in which prosecutors seek life imprisonment.
(2004 Report from Tennessee Comptroller of the Treasury Office of Research)

The greatest costs associated with the death penalty occur prior to and during trial, not in post-conviction proceedings. Even if all post-conviction proceedings (appeals) were abolished, the death penalty would still be more expensive than alternative sentences.

Trials in which the prosecutor is seeking a death sentence have two separate and distinct phases: conviction (guilt/innocence) and sentencing. Special motions and extra time for jury selection typically precede such trials.

More investigative costs are generally incurred in capital cases, particularly by the prosecution.

When death penalty trials result in a verdict less than death or are reversed, taxpayers first incur all the extra costs of capital pretrial and trial proceedings and must then also pay either for the cost of incarcerating the prisoner for life or the costs of a retrial (which often leads to a life sentence).

The death penalty diverts resources from genuine crime control measures. Spending money on the death penalty system means:

Reducing the resources available for crime prevention, mental health treatment, education and rehabilitation, meaningful victims’ services, and drug treatment programs.

Taking it away from existing components of the criminal justice system, such as prosecutions of drug crimes, domestic violence, and child abuse.



so yes, the taxpayers' money could be put to better use than to pay for murder by the state.
 Pril

Joined: 5/23/2005
Msg: 93
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 9:46:34 PM
Im for, I think that we should no longer sped our money to keep these harsh offenders in a comfy place where they can committe more crime in prison.
They put dogs to sleep for less that what Charles Manson did, and we still think this is humane. If you ask me, and you did, I say kill em all, let God sort em out. And God did say AN EYE FOR AN EYE.
 leanhaunshee

Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 94
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History
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 9:55:09 PM
pril... i don't know why you believe a life term sentence costs the state more than an execution, or why you think prison is a comfy place.

i posted, just above your post, how much higher the cost of a capital trial is compared to a non-capital trial... it is more costly to put a person to death by the state. the cost is not the injection, it's for the legal proceedings...

even so, i don't think you can put a price on a human life... and of course there is always the possibility of an innocent person being executed, or going through the whole process and years on death row before their innocence is discovered.... if they are in fact excuted the mistake is irrevocable. (see one of the smaller quote boxes regarding this issue)

as far as the 'eye for an eye' thing goes... that's old testament... if you're a christian, it is most definitely NOT a part of your doctrine.... it was replaced by turn the other cheek, i believe that was one of the main messages and changes in philosophy. i have to wonder how many of the people who are saying 'pro' are in fact claiming to be christians...

ps... the book, written by men, that says ' an eye for an eye'... also says 'thou shalt not kill'...
 Garf

Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 95
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 9:59:40 PM
leanhaunshee: http://www.lotsofstatsdonotformanopinion.com/

It's funny how topics that involve human rights always boil down to money.

If someone killed my son, I'd f**k him up so bad, his dentist wouldn't be able to identify the remains. Death penalty is definitely something that prevents repeat offences.
 leanhaunshee

Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 96
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Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/12/2005 10:04:44 PM
well you're a rude little bugger, garf, aren't you?

an uninformed opinion about such things is a deadly opinon. and the stats are not invented, nor did i just look them up now.... i am a member of amnesty international and i regularly sign petitions of all kinds to defend human rights all over the world...

do you actually have an opinon yourself, or do you just enjoy being rude and childish. this is a debate, and i have posted my opinon on the subject in posts prior to the one with quotes from and links to amnesty international.... i guess you didn't have time to read them while you were making your clever little clownish post.

in case you didn't notice, i mentioned that in my opinion you can't put a price on life... the person i was replying to was talking about the cost... i responded to that. the point was that it is a waste to spend money on a revenge killing when it could be put to better use.
 Mitsoo

Joined: 4/29/2005
Msg: 97
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:58:14 AM
Here we go with the stats again. That's interesting and they should be considered but...what diffference does it make really? Whether there is a death penalty or not, there is often the chance of an innocent person being executed. To me, one is too many.
Whether we have the death penalty or not, and we don't in Canada, it's not going to stop the serious crimes. It would make me think twice about being a prosecutor.
Another reason I am against it.....eyewitnesses are not reliable sometimes (they see what they want to see). There's always going to be the 'lucky' ones who don't get caught and the 'unlucky' ones who take the rap.
I hope I don't get a lot of flack from this...but if I do, it's not going to change my view.
There's other ways to get revenge.
 Frrosty

Joined: 3/21/2004
Msg: 98
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/13/2005 9:14:26 AM
the point was that it is a waste to spend money on a revenge killing


Assuming, of course, that the motive for the capital punishment is..indeed...revenge.

What is the crime rate in Texas like lately..anybody know? (murder crimes and those that are punishable by capital punishment of course)

All you have to do to lower the costs of a capital punishment process is to make the whole system and procedure more efficient. (I know..easier said than done..for sure..BUT..DNA advances sure chopped out ALOT of the process with one fell swoop....correct?)


Another reason I am against it.....eyewitnesses are not reliable sometimes (they see what they want to see).


That is why you question them from 1001 different angles and intensities loking for holes or weaknesses. These people are VERY trained question makers and askers. (though how much energy they put into it can sometimes be suspect..yes)


There's other ways to get revenge.


Thus, very possibly, turning one felon...into two; and, when multiplied to "lives affected" by that jump from one to two felons, possibly ruining so many more lives on the fly. (namely..families and friends)
 Legal Catch

Joined: 7/3/2005
Msg: 99
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/13/2005 9:32:15 AM
Its not so much revenge Frosty as it is a reckoning.
 Mitsoo

Joined: 4/29/2005
Msg: 100
Capital Punishment~ for or against?
Posted: 8/13/2005 9:35:53 AM
It is revenge no matter how you look at it. Punishment is a form of revenge. If it's not revenge, what is it....oh right, it's justice.?
And about the wasting money...it's the way their system (the U.S.) is set up.
By trying to make themselves look like good democrats, they have the appeal process to make it appear to be humane. Those same people who are pro-capital punishment are appalled when they see a 'swift' decapitation that takes place in the Middle East. The same end is reached, just a different approach. With both, there is a chance of executing an innocent person. Though, with the U.S. system where they want to seem so-called 'fair', it is even more likely. Like I said, one is too many. I use the U.S. loosely here; I know all States do not adhere to capital punishment.
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