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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/24/2005 11:33:27 AM |
4000 year's old
I guess you studied that? Well I beg to differ, as i said before it was handed down from the original decendants to the generations there after.
Tokk man some time to learn how to write. when they found the means to collect the stories place it in to one spot and then from there create the Bible.
So I would say your out by a Thousand years at least.
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/24/2005 12:23:07 PM | | Actually wiccy that was in response to Santamaria...But I was wondering..you Yanks always seem to do things on a grandiose scale..Whether its Elections for the Pres..Cheerleaders at sports games, so why would it be any different with American Christians..The states is unique in that it probably produces 99% of the worlds televangelists, the rest of the world goes quietly about their business. It seems to me the American way is to be in everybodies face..just my 2 cents again.. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/24/2005 1:07:25 PM | you Yanks always seem to do things on a grandiose scale..Whether its Elections for the Pres..Cheerleaders at sports games, so why would it be any different with American Christians..The states is unique in that it probably produces 99% of the worlds televangelists, the rest of the world goes quietly about their business. It seems to me the American way is to be in everybodies face..
Hmmm...nothing grandiose in Canada??? Sorry don't buy that one! The world's largest shopping mall is in Edmonton, not America!
As for religious warfare, most of that is taking place outside of America--places like Ireland and the Philippines, as well as the Middle East.
The practice of cramming religion down someone's throat is an international phenomenon, not an American one, and the woman who crammed religion down my father's throat when he was a boy was a Canadian woman. I'll admit that the Mormons are of American origin, but all the rest of the major Christian faiths originated in Europe, where the bulk of the persecution occured (I mean both persecution OF Christians and BY Christians).
The televangelists are nothing but an extension of what has been going on inside the churches for thousands of years, combined with mass-marketing techniques.
Now the Jehovah's Witnesses are a pain in the butt all over the world.
The plain fact is that for most people, religion is socially constructed reality. That's fine with me as long as you don't try to force me to believe that your reality map is the only "right" one, because if you do, you're out of my life!
I have to say though that I believe Christians have moderated over the last 100 years.
Today I'm primarily worried about the Moslems. Their worst act is actually not jihad, but their practice of forcing conversion at the altar.
But the real answer to the question as to why some Christians feel the need to force beliefs on others is that it is a logical consequence of their beliefs. If a person believes that a person's soul will automatically go to hell if that person does not believe in Jesus then it is logical to believe that he is doing him a favor by forcing him to accept Jesus. But there is one problem with that argument. According to Islam, you automatically go to hell if you DO believe that Jesus is the Son of God. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/24/2005 1:23:28 PM | 'Sorry don't buy that one!" you could always try the Edmonton Mall, they have everything...
As far as I know Europe, Britian included are not heavy in to pushing Christianity down any ones throat, and we are talking about Christianity not other religions. And as for the Irish situation its not about religion but about pushing the last bit of British Imperialism out of Ireland..Religious denomination there is just a means of sorting out who is Republican and who sides with the Queen.. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/24/2005 1:38:32 PM | Religious warfare is the ultimate act of pressing one's religious beliefs on others. And I do believe we forgot about Bosnia. Last time I checked the map that was in Europe.
The European tradition of being more open minded about religions is only 60 years old.
Agree that talk about other religion's persecution is a bit off topic, except to put Christianity's doings in context.
As far as I know, lack of tolerance of other's belief systems is almost exclusively a phenomenon involving fundamentalist Christians and/or fundamentalist Muslims, and seems to be almost unheard of with other religious tradfitions. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/24/2005 2:21:50 PM | Well yes lots of bad things done in the name of religion and lots done not in the name of religion...Paul the Apostle said
"How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!"
Now, how anyone can use force, terror, coercion and claim to be a Christian is not reading the bible as I know it....
By their fruits you shall know them..
"the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, against such there is no law. And they that are Christ's have crucified the flesh with the affections and lusts. If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit."
who do you think is the real Christian?? | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/25/2005 9:46:02 AM | who do you think is the real Christian??
I think the real Christian... depends.
If the Christian is a Paulist, then the Christian is a proselytizer, as that is the only thing Paul did and stood for, aside from taking from the original Christians their Jewish beliefs and accusing them of trying to keep Jewish beliefs. Paul, for example, forbid the early Christians from engaging in circumcision, something that was part of Jesus, as Jesus was Jewish and never changed his religion, and never spoke out against the Jewish tenets. Because Jesus was Jewish, it was a highly anti-Jesus act on Paul's part. However, most Christians nowadays are Paulists, rather than Jesusists. They side with Paul, not with Jesus.
If the Christian is an anti-Paulist and only goes by Jesus' word, then that Christian will not be a proselytizer, will hold Jewish beliefs, and will defend the beliefs of others, rather than shove his belief down others' throats as Paulists do. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/25/2005 10:17:28 AM | So you like to catalog people and I get the impression that you think I am A paulist?
humm think I should be offended? humm I don't know I believe al lot of the thirteen letter written by Paul but Rev. was written by John by the way.
Most of the New testament is written by Paul, so your trying to tell me you do not believe in Jesus?
Do you not eat three hofed animals?
By no means do you have to answer these it's only a question.
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/25/2005 10:36:46 AM | Ya gotta remeber Dei..Paul hated women..so women are not gonna listen to all the letters written to the various churches at that time, and of course thay all wrote back and told him he was preaching another gospel, not the one that Jesus preached..Funny though, all those letters of protest were somehow lost..
Back on-topic please:
- Original Post:
Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 11/14/2004 7:23:40 PM
This may just be me, but I just feel Christian are way to in your face. I mean look at gay marriage, why should there a law for that, it is a personal choice between two consinting adults to get married or not. And what about abortion the Christians don't believe in it so it should be a law? They are also quick to tell everyone that if you dont go through Jesus you go to hell, that's great but let me believe what I want dont tell me I am going to hell because I relate to the teachings of Ghandi, or Buddha. Why can't it be live and let live. Please don't flame for I am just asking a question. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/27/2005 10:09:30 AM | Koiuy and everyone else, just be grateful we all live in either Canada or the States where there is the freedom to even talk about everyone's belief system. I understand how many of you feel that "Christians" are pushing their ideals onto our law system and cultural. But I throw this out, let us flip the coin to the other side...
Would not be true that the Islamic and Gay community are also pushing their ideals and wanting their convictions made law as well. Just think for a minute about the gay community they have gay marriage a boiling point in both Canada and the States. They actually make up less than five percent of our population and they are having their ideas of what marriage is and all other who disagree with such a view are racists and hatemongers because they differ and push that through every media outlet that they can.
back to the other side...
The reason it can seem that Christians are pushing their ideas for law is they are based on morality issues that "seem to stifle our freedom". When in reality it opens freedom for the individual in so many more ways. The fore-fathers from both are nations came from a Christian world view-therefore laws reflect that view....just the same if you go over to the Middle East there laws reflect either a islamic or Hindu world view.
Christians just seem to more vocal when they see something that is coming to pass on morality issue in our culture because they have already have a platform in which to do so. I am sure that if other faith systems had the platform they would be doing the exact samething, that is pushing their ideals on everyone. It is just that a they are many "Christians" have no tact when it comes to speaking out for something and they are the ones that get marked and everyone else labels all other Christians with the same brush. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/28/2005 8:40:34 AM | What's the big deal with the original question anyways????
Everybody presses their beliefs on everybody else. Whether you believe that Wayne Gretzky is the greatest hockey player of all time or that the Liberals should be voted out or that overuse of antibiotics is the deathknell for us. We all have our own beliefs and personal viewpoints. We all think that we are intelligent people. We all think that all other intelligent people should share those viewpoints. We all think that all other intelligent people should behave the way we do.
SO???
Enough already. 75 pages on the topic. I'm going to press my belief on the rest of you that this discussion has gone on way too long. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/28/2005 8:42:39 PM |
What's the big deal with the original question anyways????
Everybody presses their beliefs on everybody else.
Yeah? I have a religious belief. When have I ever pressed my beliefs on others? Sure, I have protested others pressing their religious beliefs on me, but that's defense, not offense. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/28/2005 10:36:36 PM | it's a well known fact or should i say social etiquette that religion and politics are the two topics that are considered taboo to discuss with strangers, therefore they shouldn't be discussed in most situations as described throughout this thread, yet people with strong religious backgrounds don't always respect that of others they begin a discussion with when they knock on their door or pass them by on the street or talk to them in a lunch room or where ever the social interaction occurs... and by the time they open their mouths, often times it's too late. either the person listening is too scared to tell the person they don't want to hear it or they're conceived as being rude by actually saying they don't want to hear it or they are pushed to their limit and react with extreme negativity and do things like slam doors in faces or allow themselves to be consumed into a rediculous religious argument... am i leaving anything out?
it's just not socially acceptable to have impromptu discussions about religion with people you don't know and even with people you do know because it makes for an extremely uncomfortable situation for the person on the receiving end of the conversation. | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/29/2005 12:29:25 AM | BadKitty, I totally agree that there are those fanatics who discuss religion in inappropriate settings or inappropriate ways.
SO?
There fanatics about all subjects who do the same. Yes, we all wish they would shut up. Yes, we wish we knew why they won't.
SO???
Again, seventy-five pages is more than enough. Fanatics from all walks of life won't change their stripes just because we want them to. That's life. Live with it. Consider it an opportunity for you to demonstrate just how much more mature you are. | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/29/2005 6:48:14 AM | i wouldn't consider the few people i know of who do this as "fanatics", they're just h-e-l-l bent on trying to get me to convert to their religion. one is constantly inviting me to funcitons at her church and the answer has been no for years. no matter how many times i tell her i'm not interested in going to her church, she still asks and puts me in a situation where i have to be brutally honest with her and be firm in saying NO. maybe they should teach some sort of etiquette at these churches that breed these "fanatics" as you call them miss music. ;)
not everyone in this thread at this point was a part of it from the beginning like myself, sari, and a few others - you all know who you are and it's wonderful that we're all still here and we can discuss this subject. if you're concerned with this discussion going 75 pages miss music, i have a simple solution for you... you have a choice... don't enter this thread anymore and you don't have to see what's written, nor do you have to respond... oh the joy of the freedom of choice :) the great thing about opinions is that everyone has one, so yours isn't the end all, be all of this topic miss music. maybe there's still something here for you to learn... | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/29/2005 9:02:07 AM | Oh for petes sake BadKitty. I am not debating anyone's freedom of choice. I am questioning some of the choices being made. And yes, definitely, a discussion forum is an opportunity for everyone to learn something. On that, we can definitely agree.
So perhaps you can exsplain to me what's the big deal about spiritual and religious people raving about their faith life. Is it different from me raving about the choir I joined or a fantastic Thai restaurant that I think everyone HAS to try. Is it any different from my pontifications against drunk drivers and bike riders who don't wear helmets. We've all raved about a variety of things. Why is it that being passionate about faith brings such disapproval???
BadKitty, you mention your friend who goes on and on about her church. Is she simply the kind of person who can't take no for an answer? Perhaps the issue is her personality, not her faith. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 6/29/2005 6:47:08 PM |
it's just not socially acceptable to have impromptu discussions about religion with people you don't know and even with people you do know because it makes for an extremely uncomfortable situation for the person on the receiving end of the conversation.
Particularly the way proselytizing usually goes...
Person A: You know, you really ought to come to church with me sometime.
Person B: Uh.. I already go to a church... sometimes. Thanks anyway.
Person A: Sometimes? Sounds like you're not really into it. Come with me. It changed my whole life when I FOUND THE LORD.
Person B: Yeah well... I don't think I need to find anything, thanks anyway.
Person A: Yes, I used to be sad, a drug addict, a drunk, beat my wife, my dog, and my mother-in-law, burped in public, couldn't keep a job, but now, now I love my wife and everyone, and I'm working for somebody I met at the church! I'm happier than ever NOW THAT I HAVE A PERSON RELATIONSHIP WITH CHRIST!!!! Come on, come with me next Sunday.
Person B: No.
Person A: Okay, what do you believe? Let's talk about that..
Person B: No.
Person A: Are you AFRAID to discuss your beliefs?...
and so on.
Now don't get me wrong, I don't accept proselytizing even if it's done in a mild-mannered way. I accept zero proselytizing. However, the proselytizing I've seen makes Attila the Hun look like Barney the Dinosaur. | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/29/2005 7:41:45 PM | you're cute miss music... i haven't heard anyone other than me say "for pete's sake" in ages. ya made me smile... thank you :)
i'll try my best to explain to you the difference between someone having a conversation as sari has layed out and you and i discussing the choir you joined or a fantastic thai restaurant. normally discussions like your choir, restaurants, drunk drivers or current events don't lead to one person trying to force the other one to do something they don't want to do, like go to a particular church or get "saved" or see a performance at their church or have dinner with their pastor or convert to their religion. it's so incredibly uncomfortable to say no to someone in that situation sometimes and it's unreasonable of the person doing it to think it's ok to be so persistant.
my friend can take no for an answer.... she just doesn't get why i'm happy being catholic and not wanting to convert to her religion and see things the way she does when it comes to religion. there's far more to it that i'm not sharing because it's pretty personal to her... not that anyone would know who she was if i talked but i'll tell you this much... her faith in god allows her to enable her son to kill himself with drugs. her belief is that god will take care of him and will heal him and one day he will wake up and be free of the need to do heroin... maybe it was god that saved his life when he was found an inch from heaven's door but it's not god in his life that will keep him from shooting up heroin and she really needs to step back into reality and help him without using god... her son does not believe in god and she's forced religion down his throat since the day he was born. | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/29/2005 7:50:33 PM | Oh boy and where in the Bible....BIBLE does it even come close to allowing such atrocity!!?!!
I cannot stand when some one opens the page to a bible and it says kill yourself and they do!! Jeez one must come to read understand re-read and attempt another understanding of it. People do not believe what you are told believe what is in "The HOLY WORD" the Bible.
that is what is being said nothing else
a lot of you have not even read this thing and accuse people of peowdszxzutgliytisbfgfnrf
oh what ever word Preaching, I will say this it is not I it is THE BIBLE folks.
That's all.
Bad kitty please suggest it to your friend to find it in the Bible, God has a purpose for everyone, even the worst sinners.
So do not let her think this please.
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/29/2005 10:27:28 PM | Hey, BadKitty. If you like "for pete's sake", you'll love all the others that are still rattling around in my vocabulary!
Anyhow, yes, I agree, there are those people who believe they have found the Lord yet distort the teachings to such a degree or misapply them so badly that they are unrecognizable. And I know it can be annoying to have someone give a conversation like the one Sari laid out. What I'd add to your points is that I think the problem is their personalities, not their religion.
I knew a guy who lost 70+ pounds on a diet plan, looks great, feels great, and won't shut up about how crucial it is for the rest of us to get on this diet plan. He drives me crazy. (Love him otherwise....wish to strangle him over this one issue) I had a little talk with him and he has now quit on that topic. (And I know what subjects to avoid with him to "lead him not into temptation"  ) So, he was a bit of a pain, but at least he was somewhat trainable.
On the other hand, I knew a girl who always had to tell everyone what to do. She was convinced she knew better than the rest of us. She constantly told us that she knew a better restaurants we went to, a better movie, a better routes to drive from A to B, and on and on. And, being agnostic, she took to task everyone who had a faith in something.
Again, it's the personality involved that is the problem, not their religion. Take away their faith (or lack thereof) and they'll still be as annoying and in exactly the same way...just on a different topic.
So, I think our question really should be: "Why do some people feel they have to press their beliefs on others and why do they have such a snooty attitude?" | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 6/30/2005 6:43:42 AM | i think you found the answer miss music... "it's the personality involved that is the problem, not the religion. take away their faith (or lack thereof) and they'll still be as annoying" i definitely agree with that...  *now serving labotomies, got a two for one deal here!* | |
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| Enough already.
Posted: 7/1/2005 6:33:32 AM | Go and rent the movie "Saved".
It is a brilliant look at how Christian right wingers sometimes all too easily forget the basic values of their religion - and become religious monsters. | |
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