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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/27/2008 9:22:58 AM | This past Friday, as a cashier I saw someone that was on pof. I said, haven't I seen you on POF. He said yes, but didn't find any dates. We started talking and the subject of what religion are you? I said baptist, but with work and my charity work, I usually only attend church on easter and christmas. He totally blew me off and said, I attend church twice a week, and as he exited he totally blew me off and said now thats where you will find me. This is christian like? It reminds me of the people who come in our store and steal, but on sunday, they are dressed to the nines for church. As if that is going to absolve them for their stealing the rest of the week.  What defines being a christian? How many times you attend church a week or your actions every day of the week,month,years? I believe it is more of action. I believe I am serving god, by volunteering to help others in several organizations,even creating a organization soldiers nightengales, that make desert scarves and send care packages to soldiers. So, I am a solitary worshipper, does that make me any less of a christian? I can see why he hasn't gotten any dates, with that christian snobbery. Cheryl | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/27/2008 11:37:30 AM |
If one is a bible believing Christian, he/she will realize that the bible states to us to compel others to come to Christ. It doesn't tell us to keep our faith a secret and become cameleons. Rather, to come out amongst the world and be a separated people. Are there ways of compelling others in a way that would be less annoying to them? Sure there is. After all, if one feels forced to come to church, then how could they truly worship God sincerely?
You see now here's the thing. The bible also teaches Christians how to live yet if two billion people in this world lived as Christ did don't you think the world would be a better place? I wouldn't mind hearing about someone's beliefs if they clearly made a difference in the world. I feel veganism makes more of a moral statement then being a Christian any day. I believe living more sustainably makes more of a difference then any Christian i've met thus far and i want to hear how these people live and want to emulate a more sustainable way of life that doesn't harm other species and the earth.
You cannot compel people to become Christian by showing love and compassion you can manipulate them with these things. 'Planting the seed' is nothing better then spreading a parasite directly into someone's brain which in my opinion should be outlawed. Anyone that knows even the basics of how the brain works knows that just by repetition and finding the right script you can convert anyone to any religion or cult.
I will not debate the validity, or lack of, with the many different beliefs on this board. Do I feel my beliefs are the truth and the only way to Heaven? Yes, but that is no different from everybody else who feels their beliefs are correct and everybody else is misinformed.
Wonders why you would post if you aren't willing to debate or discuss the belief system that you think should be spread through out the world?
Carl Rogers says:
Incongruity
The aspect of your being that is founded in the actualizing tendency, follows organismic valuing, needs and receives positive regard and self-regard, Rogers calls the real self. It is the “you” that, if all goes well, you will become.
On the other hand, to the extent that our society is out of synch with the actualizing tendency, and we are forced to live with conditions of worth that are out of step with organismic valuing, and receive only conditional positive regard and self-regard, we develop instead an ideal self. By ideal, Rogers is suggesting something not real, something that is always out of our reach, the standard we can’t meet.
This gap between the real self and the ideal self, the “I am” and the “I should” is called incongruity. The greater the gap, the more incongruity. The more incongruity, the more suffering. In fact, incongruity is essentially what Rogers means by neurosis: Being out of synch with your own self. If this all sounds familiar to you, it is precisely the same point made by Karen Horney!
However imagine if you've been programmed to believe in a certain way. Your ability to self actualize becomes impossible because you are on a path that is in the best interest of an organization or religion. This belief system 'Christianity in this case although not the only belief system' has not only given you the answers for life it has also given you the tools to help its own survival within your organism.
Carl Rogers talks about the defence mechanisms that are used when our sense of self is threatened and this includes false sense of self from programmed beliefs.
Defenses
When you are in a situation where there is an incongruity between your image of yourself and your immediate experience of yourself (i.e. between the ideal and the real self), you are in a threatening situation. For example, if you have been taught to feel unworthy if you do not get A's on all your tests, and yet you aren't really all that great a student, then situations such as tests are going to bring that incongruity to light -- tests will be very threatening.
When you are expecting a threatening situation, you will feel anxiety. Anxiety is a signal indicating that there is trouble ahead, that you should avoid the situation! One way to avoid the situation, of course, is to pick yourself up and run for the hills. Since that is not usually an option in life, instead of running physically, we run psychologically, by using defenses.
Rogers' idea of defenses is very similar to Freud's, except that Rogers considers everything from a perceptual point-of-view, so that even memories and impulses are thought of as perceptions. Fortunately for us, he has only two defenses: denial and perceptual distortion.
Denial means very much what it does in Freud's system: You block out the threatening situation altogether. An example might be the person who never picks up his test or asks about test results, so he doesn't have to face poor grades (at least for now!). Denial for Rogers does also include what Freud called repression: If keeping a memory or an impulse out of your awareness -- refuse to perceive it -- you may be able to avoid (again, for now!) a threatening situation.
Perceptual distortion is a matter of reinterpreting the situation so that it appears less threatening. It is very similar to Freud's rationalization. A student that is threatened by tests and grades may, for example, blame the professor for poor teaching, trick questions, bad attitude, or whatever. The fact that sometimes professors are poor teachers, write trick questions, and have bad attitudes only makes the distortion work better: If it could be true, then maybe it really was true! It can also be much more obviously perceptual, such as when the person misreads his grade as better than it is.
Unfortunately for the poor neurotic (and, in fact, most of us), every time he or she uses a defense, they put a greater distance between the real and the ideal. They become ever more incongruous, and find themselves in more and more threatening situations, develop greater and greater levels of anxiety, and use more and more defenses.... It becomes a vicious cycle that the person eventually is unable to get out of, at least on their own.
Rogers also has a partial explanation for psychosis: Psychosis occurs when a person's defense are overwhelmed, and their sense of self becomes "shattered" into little disconnected pieces. His behavior likewise has little consistency to it. We see him as having "psychotic breaks" -- episodes of bizarre behavior. His words may make little sense. His emotions may be inappropriate. He may lose the ability to differentiate self and non-self, and become disoriented and passive.
To me it doesn't matter if Christianity or atheism are right or wrong because i don't think we can ever really know without a doubt. But when we believe something is the only truth there is a danger especially to the people you mislead to believe the same. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/27/2008 11:07:42 PM | Koi,
I have heard of your same complaint when it comes to overpassionate Christians. I'm sorry you havn't had the chance to meet anyone who is Truly Christian enough to invite you to get to know Christ as I have.
My nana was a passionate believer and lover of God. She never forced me to believe becuase I think she knew I would come to know Him on my own as one should (as opposed to being *force-fed??) I just liked going with her because I loved going everywhere with my Grandparents as a kid. She invited me to know Christ more as a member of the family than some pompus diety that an angry or ignorant society seems to do (or an inspiration to smoke pot..psh!)
If you have received an invitation to an event that could help you in some way or in some way you have been seeking for deeper purpose (you pick this one) and someone went through something or met someone that you just HAD To meet or HAD to do, wouldn't you try it? If you liked it wouldn't you share it with others? That drive and that desire in you to share it is that In-Your-Face accusation we hear all the time. Some just share it like it's the best thing since sliced bread...a real gift that those that love you or feel a need to share with you do! Others screw it up miserably and then it's understandable we get people who wonder aimlessly as to why they have to share a patch of dirt with these overzealous whackjobs. They're not evil, nor do they seek to harm you or make you feel like dirt. They're just not spiritually mature enough to share it with you as you can understand. My nana could stand her spiritual ground and defend her Lord tooth and nail, She had this gift of telling it like it is while still maintaining respect from those that even didn't believe as she did. I hope I had that passed down to me and you understand what I said.
Life is a gift. That's why Christians dont support Abortion. I dont know much about Gay marriages outside of what I read in the bible. My opinion doesn't matter since I believe that most marriages are a joke no matter what sex you have the hots for. I'm sorry....I mean...not like what they "used" to be...like the ones that our parents/grandparents had where you are selfless and faithful and work at and communicate. But that's a flame I dont want to throw here, as I promised I wont flame as per your request, respectfully.
I hope this helps.
peace&love,
Dam
ps: I Love the quote "Be the Change you Wish to see in the World" Was that Ghandi that said that? My bumper-sticker quotes him saying it.. . | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/28/2008 1:28:55 AM | For one thing there are many different varieties of Christians.Catholics,Baptists,Pentacostalists,Spiritualists,Evangelicals,Mormons,Jehovah's Witnesses,the list goes on...
Don't forget satanists, muslims, moonies, atheists, agnostics, new agers, and buddists as well.
See where I'm going with this statement?
You mean they all don't belong in the same category?
Exactly...
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A christian simply is someone who asks Jesus into their heart as their personal savior and asks for his forgiveness. Nothing less, and nothing more.
It has nothing to do with religion, traditions, going through the motions, going to church, giving money to the church, acting holier than thou, believing that there is a chosen race, or any other BS that gets in the way.
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/30/2008 8:09:43 PM |
You see now here's the thing. The bible also teaches Christians how to live yet if two billion people in this world lived as Christ did don't you think the world would be a better place? I wouldn't mind hearing about someone's beliefs if they clearly made a difference in the world.
Well, I watched "Amazing Grace". I'd recommend it. It's about the life of William Wilberforce whose Christian faith steered his life and caused him to act towards others with compassion. His greatest achievement was getting the British Parliament to pass the Abolition of Slavery Act. He also started the Society for the Protection of Animals (worked to create laws and conditions that protected animals from cruelty), presented bills that created free education for the poor, a rudimentary welfare system, improved working conditions, created laws that restricted the use of children in work places, and a lot more.
I started a thread but it was deleted (without notice) shortly after. I thought it would serve to counteract the Christian-bashing and overwhelmingly negative stereotypes that are a constant theme in this forum. Apparently they're allowed and a "pro" (but not exclusive or anti- anything else) one isn't. So I'm not sure if anyone will actually get a chance to give you what you asked for. If you get nothing, don't assume it means there is nothing. The silence may be enforced rather than deliberate. Of course, I don't have a clue whether you'll get to read this or whether it will also be deleted. I guess only time will tell. :-) | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/30/2008 8:46:22 PM | | A shame that it was deleted then because it would have been a refreshing change as you describe it. As you describe it I can see certainly no reason why it would have been deleted on the surface of it...perhaps the wording wasn't broad enough? Who can say. I certainly didn't vote to see such a thread nuked. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/30/2008 11:57:34 PM | Two Hawks takes the Talking Stick:
I'm a Pagan and I am also Wiccan. I am a practicing Witch. The thing I have found out about Christians is that they don't understand my religion(s). When I tell them I am Pagan...the immediate comment is: "Oh! You worship the Devil!" Sorry! I don't do that! I leave that for the Satanists. Another comment I have gotten: "You are a Pagan, then you make small amimal sacrifices!" Sorry! Wrong again! As a Pagan and a Wiccan I respect all life forms and to take a life would be going against my codes. The best one I heard was: "Oh! You are a Pagan? What does goats blood taste like?" My immediate reaction to that was "HUH?" I asked the fellow to explain that. He told me that his minister was ragging on Pagans and that we all drank goats blood. Needless to say....I came close to peeing my pants I was laughing so hard.
As a practicing Witch I catch a lot of flack for that too. Again I worship the Devil and all that other nonsense. Then, of course, I get hammered on for spell casting. Spell casting is the exact same as praying. Christians pray for their wants and needs. We cast spells for them. Same thing! A true Witch will NEVER EVER cast an evil spell. That would be breaking our code. Number 16 in our code is: "Cast ye not an evil spell lest ye receive it back in threefold" In other words...If I were to cast an evil spell or put a hex on someone...I'd get it back three times as bad. So a true Witch will not cast an evil spell.
Now don't get the wrong idea here. I do respect Christians and all others of other religions. As a Pagan we are taught to respect all of all religions and we were NOT to make any rude remarks about them, or their choice.
I think the basic premise here is that Christians have a need to recruit others into their religion. I could be wrong about that, but that's the feelings I get. It is also my feeling that Christians have not yet learned to respect others of other religions. They refer to Mormons as a "cult". When you look up the word "cult" in a dictionary the basic definition is: "Any group of people dedicated to a religion". So...basically the Christians are a cult within themselves.
What you good Christains have to learn is to respect others of other religions. Remember -- Religion is an individual choice. A choice that we are happy with and live with it.
Two Hawks passes the Talking Stick | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/31/2008 12:49:18 AM | I have found one surefire way to discuss one's faith and not fall victim to snarky remarks by disillusioned jerkoffs.
If you can say "Now, I Believe that....((insert belief pertaining to discussion here))...." You can save the usual accusation of "pushing your beliefs on the other person." You are not forcing your beliefs on that person but you are sharing of yourself in the conversation.
If you dont want me sharing the love, Dont spread the hate. It takes two to tango. And again, if you want to know about God, It's best you ask Him yourself. If you really want to know, you'll meet the people you are meant to know Him by or given the circumstances and gifts (and trials, it's only fair) to do so. If you go straight to a human with the argument in your heart, You aint gonna get squat...or even better....their beliefs forced down your throat.
My nana never forced her faith/hope/love of God or Christ on me. She invited me and lived the example of a true Christian. I suppose I'll never understand then by that example that people have this problem with Him in the world like those that are given those trials without getting to know Him in their life.
I can't help but being annoyed at those that force their opinions on me both Christian and Non and I get the same amount of force-fed bull$hit that we're complaining about here. Yet The one that tought me about God merely invited and educated me and that's all I do when someone asks sincerely. The ones that dont I just have nothing but fun with. heh.
peace&love,
Dam | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/31/2008 6:37:17 AM | I really don't know if Christians are any worse about proselytizing than Muslims,especially the Fundamentalist variety.Radical Muslims have been converting people by the sword for years.
Personally I think it would be nice to send the radical fundies of all religions over to some island where they can slug it out and leave us normal folks alone. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/31/2008 8:50:36 AM | I don't know. All I know is that I don't appreciate it. Although I come from a Judeo-Christian background, I tried to learn as much as I could about the belief systems of others (religious or otherwise). We all have our truths and our perceptions of such. I've stated this before in the forums, but here I go again for those who do believe they have a right to push their convictions on others:
Remember the story of the tower of Babel? The objective was a unilingual and therefore one thought process society. God tore it down. Tell me where in the New Testament it says that Jesus came to repair it. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 1/31/2008 9:20:32 AM | Next Time Round said:
Remember the story of the tower of Babel? The objective was a unilingual and therefore one thought process society. God tore it down. Tell me where in the New Testament it says that Jesus came to repair it.
Well, I don't think Christ taught the idea of a monolithic culture like Babel.
However, it seems evident that, according to the New Testament, Christ wished His apostles not only to be united, but to bring the entire world into Christianity. His final prayer before entering the Garden of Gethsemane in John's gospel reads, in part:
And not for them only do I pray, but for them also who through their word shall believe in me. That they all may be one, as thou, Father, in me, and I in thee; that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou hast given me, I have given to them: that, they may be one, as we also are one. I in them, and thou in me: that they may be made perfect in one: and the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them, as thou hast also loved me.
The full context is in John 17, if you like to read the rest. It's my favorite prayer in the entire Bible, and it even tears me up sometimes.
Anyway, to the original topic, I believe that Christianity is, by necessity, a missionary religion. This doesn't mean that Christians have to be "pushy", but I don't believe it's something that can be restricted to just a personal level. The gospel of Matthew ends with Christ's "Great Commission" to the Apostles, where He tells them to: "Going therefore, teach ye all nations: baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Ghost. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you. And behold I am with you all days, even to the consummation of the world." | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/6/2008 1:10:51 AM | I suppose some Christians are authoritarian and bullies. Not all, definetly not all. Some love you and believe there is an afterlife. The OP mentions Buddhism, how did you here the teaching of Buddha?
Christians have a conscience, a very important component of the human psyche. And the belief there is an afterlife and judgment.
As for gays and abortion, what we accept or reject is a matter of conscience, we shouldn't accept just anything and everything, or else comes corruption. And Buddhist morals are stricter than the Catholic ones. Look at the teachings on masturbation compared.
One dislikes strangers pushing seeing and accepting gays on TV being affectionate...
Abortion is sad and hurts the conscience. Not a joi de vive topic.
When I try to tell strangers about Jesus there I am nervous, sometimes rejected, sometimes I find interest. I don't push it nowadays I learned from two or three errors. I never saw or heard it live. I am in Australia, we are not authoritarian or as religious and in the US. Fathers have the right to push it. I seldom saw my father, but when I hated my life and it was no good, his push made an excellent difference in my life.
There is the other side too, "Why do unbeliever's think they know better than the young generation, and try to protect them from their own judgment if they hear about Jesus and show interest?"
Some people want to hear about Jesus and love instead of lust and gratification by itself, the comradery of adultery and empty gratification they can never undo. Drugs, also empty, they want the Spirit infilling, others also advise them, good news, no push. Teach, preach, love, testify, reason, no bullying authoritarianism. Jesus way.
In Australia we never had the authoritarian push for religion in public high schools. Balance is better that pushy Christians or condescending agnostics or atheists or Buddhists or Neopagans. Free choice and freedom of expression and debate is best. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/7/2008 8:24:01 PM |
Yes, but that is no different from everybody else who feels their beliefs are correct and everybody else is misinformed
Here is the crux... the whole point most of us "others" don't get is because even if we believe our belief is correct, we don't necessarily believe that means everyone else in misinformed. I've had this discussion a million times and it just floors me that some people can not comprehend the concept that I can be right, and they can be right.. and we can still disagree.. and it doesn't make either of us wrong. Because spirituality is NOT something that can be compelled... conscience is probably the MOST sacred and personal thing there is in this world. It is in the heart.. and it is between a person and his relationship with the universe/god/ethics, whatever that person has chosen as his view. It DOESN'T MATTER how anyone else thinks, It DOESN'T MATTER what anyone else (or even everyone else) does, or says.. it DOESN'T MATTER what is written anywhere... ultimately we are all alone, with our thoughts, our lives, our personal secrets and wishes. In the dead of the night, when we are alone with ourselves.... THAT is where the truth about what we REALLY think, and what we REALLY believe, or even REALLY need is. And THAT, my friends, is a place no other human can touch. For anyone who has gone through a real "dark night of the soul".. platitudes don't go very far... and the hard questions come unbidden.. the truth of oneself is stripped bare before the universe... This is the place I remember when I get uppity and think I have the answers for anyone else... and I can say, in truth that I don't... and it would be disrespectful of me to claim otherwise. Even the joy I have experienced on my own journey has little value for another when it comes right down to it. Essentially, it is something each person has to find for themselves.. or it isn't real. it's just a way to stave off the experience. I believe we will all have this at some time in our lives at least once... some earlier on.. some maybe not until their deathbed.. but each one of us will come face to face with what is REALLY inside, what the doubts really are, what they REALLY think about it all.. and we will face that ALONE (humanly anyway) and we will come to terms with it, on a personal basis in a way only each person can do.. I truly believe that true spirituality is as unique and personal as each human whom it touches.
Don't know if I made a lot of sense... but there is something in this that is extremely important to me that I want to express. When someone comes to me and tries to tell me that my inner experience is wrong, I am deeply deeply offended, even knowing that they are only doing what they think is right. There is no way anyone can know what I have experienced, nor the value of that, to me or to "god". It is arrogance of the highest order. Luckily, most of those who have tried evangelism on me have been polite and accepting when I declined... I respect their views and the reasons they have adopted for their evangelism... but sometimes they get nasty... and try to bully me into accepting their version of the truth... that's always a bad sign, when people try to use fear to manipulate or control another. I know who I am and what I believe and why.. and that seems to really throw a few of them for a loop (?).
I absolutely agree that actions speak louder than words... I am much more likely to give credence to someone who is walking their talk. If they can't or don't, I dismiss them fairly quickly, in ANY part of life. Jesus WALKED his talk as far as I can tell. Maybe that is something for people to think about.
(big sigh) Not sure why this gets me all emotional...
Peace | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/10/2008 6:22:26 AM | | I think the problem is that Jesus never wrote the bible in the first place...it was written 3 hundred years after his death and was interpeted by the greeks for the Romans who, after suffering defeat by the northern clans, needed a way to take control of the pagan religions without losing more warriors as they were out numbered. The bible was worded so that people believed you would burn in hell when you died if you never followed the church. Over the centuries this has branched off in to the christian branches of today, most of which don't associate with the others. The christian bible is good in the fact that it promotes peace but bad too as everyoine is against each other because noone can agree on what the words are saying.The indivual who reads it decides or relies on others to do it for them. All the scriptures aren't in the bible either, only the ones that relate to what the church want you to know... My apoligies if this offends anyone. | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 2/11/2008 11:13:34 PM | "Truly Christian enough to invite you to get to know Christ as I have",
" teaching and preaching.... are a large part of christian doctrine",
"The essence of Christianity is .... to go forth and tell the nations of the world."
The common theme here with folks of a certain "persuasion", is they somehow feel it's their obligation, indeed their Right, to "tell", "share", "teach", whatever, to the rest of us, whether we've expressed any interest or not.
Most people with any common sense recognize that Religion or Spirituality is really a private affair, just like Sex, Emotions, and one's Social Security number, and really not subjects for any yahoo to come along and start "sharing their wisdom" about. If I want to know about your faith, I'll ask you. Otherwise, don't bring it up. As that great sage, the Bumper Sticker once said, "Don't tell me about your religion, and I won't tell you about my hemorrhoids." | |
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 7/10/2008 11:37:46 AM | I don't think Jesus wanted followers, he wanted leaders.
Rather...... He wants you follow Him and He will make you a leader...
We who are proud followers of Christ, have his works in our lives and proof of his love and caring. We witness it always. If you are NOT a believer...chances are they're believers around you...practicing Christians do not "Push", but "Share". They do not speak fowl out of their mouths...they lift others up and edify.
It is the desire of God that we spread his word because he wants his children to become his saved children.....WHY? because he has a plan for you that is greater than anything or any feeling you can cause for yourself...and he does not want you to parish.
We study and pray and develop a relationship with the One True Living God.
"If you seek you WILL find"....also~ He has always been "living".
We Christians want to spread the Good News and share this salvation that is available to all who come to the Father, through Jesus whom with his blood has paid our debts full.
**Satan knows the bible better that you...he knows what Gods has for you....he wants you to doubt and seek personal pleasures that God teaches against. You are Satan's play things...he wants to win you away from the Father. And he is doing that by making you look at Christianity as silly and foolish. He knows how weak we are without God!
(I believe)
The reason many get bent out of shape, is because "MAN" have their own desires (Wills that are of this world) and .......to hear a message that would have them cease living in their own will ? Well, they would rather enjoy Satan's fleeting days of pleasure than Gods Eternity...so they choose to remain ignorant of what is sure to come.
Why do Christians feel the need to press their religious belief's on people?
They should not "push" but if they appear earnest it is because they want you to have eternal life....All men are not perfect....some will intend well and not yet understand how to share Gods word.... they may have aways to grow....be of good character anyway.
Peace....really!
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| Why do Christians feel the need to press their religous belief's on people?
Posted: 7/10/2008 2:20:10 PM | I really shouldn't have taken all this time off. You guys have got page after page of complex dialectic and the reality is that the answer is so extremely simple that it requires no further analysis.
Christianity is mutually exclusive: its fundamental precept is that it is the one and only right path to salvation. They don't believe that anyone besides themselves goes to heaven. Further, they believe that everyone that isn't a Christian is wrong, flawed in the way they live their lives. That's the answer right there. They only respect themselves and devalue everyone else, sort of like the Nazis did with the Jews or the Americans with the native Indians. | |
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