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Show ALL Forums  > Current Events  > Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?      Home login  
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 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 101
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?Page 5 of 9    (1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9)
Nit

Nobody is talking to you here. I didn't ask you for your opinion of whether I am off or not either. No personal matters here.

 Huisatcheman
Joined: 7/31/2005
Msg: 102
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:37:09 PM
Osama won't live forever ya knoW? He may already be dead. May his kidneys fail if he isn't dead already. Quit worryin about flies. Sick ones don't live long.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 103
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:39:40 PM
Osama might be having dinner with Bush right now in the white house plus some orgy.
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 104
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:41:47 PM

Nit

Nobody is talking to you here. I didn't ask you for your opinion of whether I am off or not either. No personal matters here.
The funny thing about a forum is that no one is asking you to make requests or orchestrate things. Hopefully you'll sleep this whole thing off.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 105
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:44:58 PM
Nit.

You were directly talking to me in your previous post. So I am asking you yet again to post your opinion and or insight, but don't chat with me in the forum. Otherwise, I will report it to the moderator that you are chatting on the forum by sending comments specifically to me and not the topic.
 msquared
Joined: 8/31/2004
Msg: 106
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:48:13 PM

You were directly talking to me in your previous post. So I am asking you yet again to post your opinion and or insight, but don't chat with me in the forum. Otherwise, I will report it to the moderator that you are chatting on the forum by sending comments specifically to me and not the topic.


Uhm, not to take sides or anything, but many people do that on this forum, even you;


Beachcomberbenn


A nice way to advertise your business, beachcomberbenn. You need to learn some better techniques than that. That is too childish for a guy your age.
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 107
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:49:39 PM

Beachcomberbenn


A nice way to advertise your business, beachcomberbenn. You need to learn some better techniques than that. That is too childish for a guy your age.


That is because Beachcomberbenn was accusing me of sending an email to him about a website.
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 108
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 8:57:17 PM

Nit.

You were directly talking to me in your previous post. So I am asking you yet again to post your opinion and or insight, but don't chat with me in the forum. Otherwise, I will report it to the moderator that you are chatting on the forum by sending comments specifically to me and not the topic.
Please lead by example.
 michaeljalan
Joined: 7/11/2005
Msg: 109
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/13/2005 9:00:34 PM
I cannot believe there are ppl posting here who have the sheer nerve
to feign concern for the Iraqi ppl while at the same time lauding the actions
of the insurgents!

Anyone with genuine concern would be against both the War
and the insurgents!

These so-called 'freedom fighters' are sending bombers into busy market squares in order to punish innocent Iraqis trying gain a sense of normality under the new gov't.

These 'freedom fighters' are brutally murdering school children who take sweets from U.S. peackeepers.

How dare anyone call this 'fighting back!
Quite simply, these ppl are Islamists who see the removal of the Secular Baathist regime as an opportunity to seize power for themselves... and are willing to spill as much innocent blood as it takes to do so.




passionteman wrote:

Nit.
If you don't have the brain for it to understand and or have nothing else to contribute, no need to quote. Go back to kindergarten and start all over again until you understand

You must be in a dream world, dude. Wake up and get a life

That is too childish for a guy your age.

Nit Too difficult for your brain to sort it out!!


^^Your posts are uncannily similar to the Islamists I've met at Speakers Corner in
London - brimming over with virulent hate and utterly incapable of engaging in
civilised dialogue.



Don't post anything personal again here. It is a public forum and not your personal discussion here. You won't get a reply.


^^Passionteman, can you spell h-y-p-o-c-r-i-s-y?
Do you honestly think that your verbal bullying and attempts to intimidate are going to shut ppl up?
That approach may make the women you know shrink away and cower in the corner, but girls like Nittany have something called "spunk" and (*shock horror*) an opinion!



I have alerted the moderators

YOU are the only one who need be concerned about being reported to the moderators!


 swiftcut
Joined: 5/1/2004
Msg: 110
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 12:59:09 AM
i think some of us went off topic here.
 longte
Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 111
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:05:19 AM
"Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?"

The similarities are growing on a daily basis

In every conflict there is a "point of no return"

...
..
.
 spherz
Joined: 8/13/2005
Msg: 112
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 1:38:33 AM
i think the war is spreading soon it will spread to iran . then syria then north kora a possable ww3 ? spooky
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 113
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 5:45:49 AM

I cannot believe there are ppl posting here who have the sheer nerve
to feign concern for the Iraqi ppl while at the same time lauding the actions
of the insurgents!


People have a right to self-defense. Americans claim that right all the time, just look at the gun thread.

If tanks rolled into your country, you might feel the same way about fighting back - especially if there was a 30 percent unemployment rate, and foreign nationals taking over you country's resources, and making 1,000 times any salary YOU could ever hope to get.

Freedom fighter is a bit overblown, insurgent is a much more appropriate term. The examples you used were of terrorists - people who deliberately target civilians. Don't confuse them.
 foxefire
Joined: 2/23/2005
Msg: 114
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:38:03 AM
People have a right to self-defense. Americans claim that right all the time, just look at the gun thread.


Arggg. Self-defense? It's not the Iraqi people that America along with it's alias' and the Iraqi army are fighting. Iraq isn't fighting its own. It's the insurgents fighting Iraq to stop democracy.
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 115
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:45:06 AM
Not a memeoid , eh?
then why in the name of reason do you spout your memeomictry?

insurgents???
who dreamed up this linguistic horror ?
ROTFLMAO
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 116
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:45:59 AM
Wrong.

Read that story I posted about the Iraqi Olympic soccer team.

If THEY are willing to pick up arms and drive you out ( they actually said they would, if they could) then it's not the way you are being told it is.

That isn't to say that the terrorists don't see a wonderful opportunity to join in, and the insurgents are actually quite mad at them , because they are targeting innocent Iraqis.

The numbers of attacks daily against US troops proves that this is an Iraqi based insurgency. The fact that they can continue without be turned in - and on- by the Iraqi population ( remember, they are by your example foreigners fighting against democracy) shows popular support exists for their movement.

As foreigners, they would be easily spotted and known to the general Iraqi population.
 foxefire
Joined: 2/23/2005
Msg: 117
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:48:24 AM
Not a memeoid , eh?
then why in the name of reason do you spout your memeomictry?

insurgents???
who dreamed up this linguistic horror ?
ROTFLMAO


^^^^^^^^ Not a hatred of America eh?

How is my opinion so different than anyone elses' who very much is for the Iraqi people to establish democracy. Answer that?

Hmmm. Seems awfully funny that you keep referring to me as memeoid.

Why is it that what I believe bothers you so? Is it because I am a woman? I don't see you harrassing any men. And a lot of men posters have the same ideas I do.
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 118
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:58:17 AM
How do you set up a democracy in a country that has no history of it , or resources to make it grow?

Look at the society in Iraq. It is very tribal based. Tribes come before even religion there.

The delicate balance between the Sunni's and the Shite's existed because of SH's incredible power and ruthlessness. I believe 20 percent of the country is Sunni.

When the US came in, they were knocked out of power effectively. That breeds discontent REALLY fast. That is why you suddenly have the Sunni triangle popping up.

People in power, especially minorities, are not going to be really positive about democratic rule.

Democracy also requires education. How many people in Iraq are functionally illiterate ?

Democracies work best in industrial, educated, societies, communist regimes work well in agrarian ones. Iraq is not really industrialized, outside of it's major cities. It is pretty much the same as it was when Lawrence of Arabia was around - it really has not changed that much.

It's like imposing democracy in 1100 AD.
 Malizia
Joined: 2/26/2004
Msg: 119
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 8:59:38 AM
It's that damb heat over there that drives everyone crazy. If they had some cool weather maybe the people might CHILL out lol.
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 120
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:22:00 AM
^^^^^^^^ Not a hatred of America eh?


I will frame this in a manner which hopefully you can grasp.
First, America is a land mass, a thing! One does not *hate* a thing.
Second Americans are those born in or become citizens of that land mass
Thirdly the administration is * not* to be confused as American in the sense it is reflective of *all* it’s citizens. We clear on these point so far?

””How is my opinion so different than anyone elses' who very much is for the Iraqi people to establish democracy. Answer that?

I believe when you examine your question you will find your answer

As to establishing democracy in Iraq, not the job of American administration, plain and simple.

”Hmmm. Seems awfully funny that you keep referring to me as memeoid.”
Then in that case you see the humour in your adherence to state propaganda, Congratulations!


””Why is it that what I believe bothers you so?””
Because what you have chosen to believe lacks balance.

“Is it because I am a woman.”

No it is not! Your gender is irrelevant to your mind set.


“” I don't see you harrassing any men.””

Because you fail to notice it does not equate with it’s occurrences. I have, as you claim, *harassed* men here for their mindset wegal lizard comes to mind as does jr ghee-tar and bulldogmedic


“”And a lot of men posters have the same ideas I do””

They do so!
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 121
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:23:10 AM
MichaelJalan


You are someone who has been sold to the US. You are owned and turned into a Robot. Whichever way the button pushed, you go that way. Everyone has a right to voice their opinion. I am not stopping anyone from voicing their opinion. I am stopping one individual who instead of voicing her opinion tries to "Chat" in a forum and not related to the topic, but personal matters. So read something first before you respond.
 Im listening
Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 122
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:23:22 AM
thank you MG
well said!
 NittanyLion
Joined: 2/19/2005
Msg: 123
Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:24:26 AM

am stopping one individual who instead of voicing her opinion tries to "Chat" in a forum and not related to the topic, but personal matters. So read something first before you respond.
What happened to leading by example. I thought that was the deal... ;-)
 passionteman
Joined: 3/7/2005
Msg: 124
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:25:24 AM
Foxefire

What democracy? Putting American flags all over Iraq? Building Mcdonalds, Wendy's and Kentucky Fried Chicken??? Stealing oil so that everyone has enough oil to run their SUVs here?
 Montreal_Guy
Joined: 3/8/2004
Msg: 125
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Has US lost the war in Iraq like Vietnam?
Posted: 8/14/2005 9:27:20 AM
In January 2005 Iraqi intelligence service director General Mohamed Abdullah Shahwani said that Iraq's insurgency consited of at least 40,000 hardcore fighters, out of a total of more than 200,000 part-time fighters and volunteers who provide intelligence, logistics and shelter. Shahwani said the resistance enjoyed wide backing in the Sunni provinces of Baghdad, Babel, Salahuddin, Diyala, Nineveh and Tamim. Shahwani said the Baath, with a core fighting strength of more than 20,000, had split into three factions. The main one, still owing allegiance to jailed dictator Saddam Hussein, is operating out of Syria. It is led by Saddam's half-brother Sabawi Ibrahim al-Hassan and former aide Mohamed Yunis al-Ahmed, who provide funding to their connections in Mosul, Samarra, Baquba, Kirkuk and Tikrit. Izzat Ibrahim al-Duri is still in Iraq. Two other factions have broken from Saddam, but have yet to mount any attacks. Islamist factions range from Abu Musab al-Zarqawi's al-Qaeda affiliate to Ansar al-Sunna and Ansar al-Islam.

A picture of the composition of the insurgency, though in constant flux, has come into somewhat greater focus. London-based International Institute for Strategic Studies estimates roughly 1,000 foreign Islamic jihadists have joined the insurgency. And there is no doubt many of these have had a dramatic effect on perceptions of the insurgency through high-profile video-taped kidnappings and beheadings. However, American officials believe that the greatest obstacles to stability are the native insurgents that predominate in the Sunni triangle. Significantly, many secular Sunni leaders were being surpassed in influence by Sunni militants. This development mirrors the rise of militant Shia cleric and militia leader Moqtada al-Sadr vis-à-vis the more moderate Shia cleric Grand Ayatollah al-Sistani.

In late July 2005, Gen. Jack Keane, a former deputy chief of staff for the Army, said that US and Iraqi forces had killed or captured over 50,000 Iraqi insurgents since the begining of 2005. The Pentagon had been previously stated that 15,000 to 16,000 Iraqis were in custody in Iraq. The difference is explained by the fact that some Iraqis who were detained in military operations were subsequently released.

The main groups:

Former Regime Loyalists [FRL]
Sunni Arabs, dominated by Ba’athist and Former Regime Elements (FRE), comprise the core of the insurgency. Ba’athist/FRE and Sunni Arab networks are likely collaborating, providing funds and guidance across family, tribal, religious and peer group lines.

The Former Regime Loyalists, or FRL’s, threaten the safety of Iraqis and prolong the Coalition presence. By capturing the FRL’s, US Forces are helping Iraq move forward to a peaceful and prosperous future. Ba'athist loyalists are thought to be responsible for some of the recent attacks against U.S. forces. According to 21 July 2003 Newsweek, two months before the war began, the Mukhabarat, the Iraqi secret police, issued instructions, "to do what's necessary after the fall of the Iraqi leadership to the American-British-Zionist Coalition forces, God forbid..."

The document outlined a total of 11 steps which were to be taken if the U.S. overthrew Saddam's regime. These included "1. Looting and burning government institutions..." In addition, it included orders to sabotaging power plants, and creating chaos by utilizing stolen weapons. The Pentagon has not officially verified this document, according to Newsweek, but has called it "plausible." The current sabatoge and attacks seem to substantiate the possibility that Ba'athist loyalists are responsible for some of the mayhem.

In addition, L. Paul Bremer may have unleashed these former soldiers against US Troops by disbanding the Iraqi military. These former Guard members are without any income, but still are armed and ready to kill, making US Troops vulnerable to attack. While the Republican Guard experienced high casualties in the US strikes on Baghdad, the Special Republican Guard was not especially involved in this part of the war, allowing them to disappear with a number of weapons and munitions. Approximately 40,000 men were members of the Republican Guard. According to the 12 August 2003 New York Times, there is an estimated 100,000 former Iraqi security service members without employment, mostly concentrated in the Sunni Triangle, the same region where many of the attacks have occurred

Islamic Revivalist
Muslims have been oppressed for decades under the rule of Saddam. While extremist elements are inexperienced in planning attacks, other regional groups are sure to come to their assistance. Such groups include the Al- Faruq Brigades, a militant wing of the Islamic Movement in Iraq (Al-Harakah al-Islamiyyah fi al-arak), the Mujahideen of the Victorious Sect (Mujahideen al ta’ifa al-Mansoura), the Mujahideen Battalions of the Salafi Group of Iraq (Kata’ib al mujahideen fi al-jama’ah al-salafiyah fi al-‘arak); and the Jihad Brigades/Cell.

Another insurgency group called "White Flags, Muslim Youth and Army of Mohammed" have claimed responsibility for the attacks against U.S. Forces. The White Flags have urged other Iraqis to attack Americans. In a 10 August 2003 videotape aired on the satellite network Al Arabiya, a Dubai-based station, the White Flags announced that the only way to free Iraq from American occupiers was through guerilla war. "We want to warn countries of the world for the last time not to send troops into Iraq."

Ansar al Islam, a Taliban-like, jihadist group with tie to Al Qaeda is also suspected in guerilla attacks. Before Operation Iraqi Freedom, it was estimated to have 850 members, but nearly 200 were killed by Kurdish and U.S. Special Forces in March. An estimated 300 to 350 fled to Iran during Iraqi freedom, after a few hundred surrendered or were captured.

The 07 May 2003 bombing of the Jordanian Embassy in Iraq has added to speculation that Islamic revivalists, like Ansar al Islam, may be playing a stronger role in the Iraqi insurgency than originally estimated. L. Paul Bremer, the civilian administrator for Iraq, has publically speculated that Ansar al Islam may have been responsible for the car bombing. The attack killed 19 people and wounded more than 60.

One group of Ansar al-Islam militants captured in the Kurdish region during early August 2003 consisted of five Iraqis, a Palestinian and a Tunisian. It was reported that the men had five forged Italian passports for another group of militants. It is estimated that at least 150 members of Ansar al-Islam have entered Iraq with the help of smugglers within the last few weeks.

Of the tens of thousands of unemployed former Iraqi security service members, an estimated 2,000 of them, most especially those without any source of income at all, are likely to be recruited by Islamic fundamentalist groups, like Ansar al-Islam.

Recruitment
Recruiting militants has been observed to take place in three stages. First, there is some form of contact initiated, perhaps in a mosque after daily prayers. In this first conversation, a later meeting is arranged. After this meeting, some of the prospective militants are eliminated, leaving the third round of candidates that will train in the campus. Accoring to the 12 August 2003 New York Times, these recruits are instructed to move away from their families and terminate communication with all outsiders.

Foreign fighters are a small component of the insurgency and comprise a very small percentage of all detainees. Syrian, Saudi, Egyptian, Jordanian and Iranian nationals make up the majority of foreign fighters. Fighters, arms and other supplies continue to enter Iraq from virtually all of its neighbors despite increased border security.

Syrian and Iranian involvement
In December 2004 US General George Casey warned that sympathizers of the insurgency within Syria had been allowed to provide funding, weapons and information to Iraqi insurgents and continued to be a source of infiltration by foreign volunteers.The following February, Iraqi television broadcast taped confessions of alleged insurgents, who claimed to have been trained in Syria, possibly by Syrian intelligence officials. Yet while coalition forces often suspect Syria of assisting insurgents, Syrian denials are adamant and hard evidence is lacking.

Also in February, after continued American pressure, Syria delivered Sabawi Ibrahim Hassan, a half-brother of Saddam and a financial backer of the insurgency. US officials reported some improvement in co-operation against the insurgency from Syria, whose border forces are too few to police the porous Iraqi border effectively. While coalition-aided Iraqi border controls are strengthening, Iraq's bordes, totalling 3,650 kilometres in length, remain difficult to control.

As with Syria, the Iranian presence in Iraq is difficult to guage, although it certainly exists. Several Shi'ite political parties (including SCIRI and al-Da'wa, both members of the United Iraqi Alliance, the country's dominant political coalition), have ties to Iran. The Interim Iraqi Government repeatedly expressed concern over Iraqi influence, Defence Minister Hazem Sha'alan claiming in mid-2004 that there was "clear interference in Iraqi issues by Iran" and that the latter supported terrorism in Iraq. The recalcitrant cleric Muqtada al-Sadr is widely perceived as an Iranian proxy, while in a television interview, Muayed al-Nasseri, commander of Saddam's "Army of Muhhammad," said his group received weapons and cash form both Iran and Syria.

Iran too has strenuously denied involvement. But Iranian actions often diverge from Tehran's official policy: The Iranian polity is fractured, with various power bases supporting their own interests. This was clearly apparent in the aftermath of the capture by Iran in June 2004 of a British patrol boat. After a number of contradictory statements, likely reflecting disagreement between Iranian elements, the crew were released. At the same time, sources within the hard-line Iranian revolutionary made plain that restraint in Iraq was contingent on international treatment of Iran in other aspects of policy, such as Iranian nuclear ambitions. internationally isolated, Iran maintains links with dissidence groups, such as the Lebanese Hizballah, as useful levers in foreign policy negotiation.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ops/iraq_insurgency.htm


A good read, and enlightening.

"Foreign fighters are a small component of the insurgency and comprise a very small percentage of all detainees."

By the US governent's OWN admission - the majority in this movement are Iraqi's.
 
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