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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:25:29 PM | Bun, you wrote...
"Hemp rope was an obstacle to dupont so why not lobby the government for tougher laws against hemp.Everyone knows how popular nylon rope became."
in other words, Dupont is a US corp., and is obviously evil?, get real! By the way, nice hat., lol
capt | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:27:40 PM | The only difference between people who smoke POT, and those who don't,------Is the people who do smoke it , dont care if you do or not ,,and will never judge another for it !
Hmmm interesting stament! If I didn't know any better I would actually think that is ALSO judging.
Everyone judges. So don't kid yourself.
How many people do you know who have lost their, minds, families or jobs because of "oreos"??? Lame comparisson to compare drugs to red meat or cookies or anything other than another mind altering substance. Juvenile too.
Drugs are drugs they mess up people's minds how is that EVER good? | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:32:37 PM | Jacksmerking: not to discredit what your life experience has been but when you live more and have different expeiences that paint and form your ideas you will go through different transformations and your thoughts will be molded existentially,not only from what your experience in your little bubble but from what you see around you. Interpret that as you wish.
I was 25 one day so I know how you feel and why you think you are fighthing for is so harmless and makes so much sense.
That's funny.. You think I live in my own bubble. Lets not debate existentialist notions, I could proverbally drink you under the table in that department. 
Saying drugs, even pot, are harmless is like saying fatty foods won't make you fat
Not true at all. For example, fatty foods don't make you fat.... If you exercise right and eat them in moderation. Pot is harmless, if it is used right.
I have never heard of a "caffein related" accident, or people developing mental illness due to caffein use. Cofee is harmful to our health like a lot of things are, but to compare cofee to
pot is like comparing soap to acid, they will both get rid of a stain but how?
I've never heard of Marijuana related accidents where pot was soley responsable... I've never heard of someone developping mental illness because of soley pot. The soap/acid example makes no sence. One is a cleaning product made from animal fat, the other is a naturally occuring liquid that is not a cleaning product. They have nothing to do with each other at all. Caffein and POt are related as there both drugs. Besides, comparisons are moot.
why don't you recommend people start doing drugs??? you seem to be an avid believer that they are harmless and more good than bad WHY NOT recommend everyone smoke pot then??? I find that hard to understand? Do as I say not as I do?
Because, it's up to the person to make the choice. I am not going to force the choice or deny anyone choice. It's up to the person, I'm just posting here to state my beliefs. And I've never said there 'more good then bad..', you shouldn't put words in peoples mouths like that.
the point is most CAN'T handle drugs. just because a select few come out of it intact or their lives don't become dependent on them does not make it safe for everyone
Then have you called the police on those doctors and lawyers you know? I doubt it. My thought is, since drugs are going to be around anyway, and lots of people can handle themselves, then why not? Instead of spending billions of dollars every years enforcing, policing and jailing drug users, why not just spend millions dollars and rehabilitate people that get in over there heads. Seems like a win win to me.
It's a give that it's MY OPINION. so I don't feel the need to keep saying that. The only "weight" I throw around is when I have used my "weight"to volunteer with homeless shelters and with teens of low income families who are struggling in life already and I have seen what the effects of something as "insignificant" as pot smoking does to their already hard existence. Talk to a homeless person take the time out to find out how they ended up that way, you'd be surprised what their backgrounds were once like. I've tried my share of drugs and I have also seen close friends and people take their lives, commit crimes and go off the depend on drugs. Over and over again. I like to educate people on the real effects of drugs and THAT is what my "high and mightÿ attitude" does.
I'm sorry if I implied otherwise, but I was not referring to you when I was talking about the upper class. Just the general perception of potheads and drug users by the upper class as a whole. I've seen some pretty screwed up things people have done to themselves before, drugs were a factor yes, but not the only factor. The biggest factor indeed comes from the upper class ignoring the lower because there ways have been demonized.
Again if you want to see how a society would be with legalizied pot go visit Amsterdam...but then again you might think it's cool to see hundreds of people draped over like dead****oaches on the street looking like death had struck them.
You can go see that in any major city, wether or not drugs are legal. Heck, I see that all the time in my small city of 92,000.
Hun... if you NEED weed to make something as simple as watching tv "tolerable", you should probably consider not watching tv at all and pick up a hobbie instead. It's amazing how much you learn about life when you get out there and do stuff.
Again, don't talk to me about life... | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:39:18 PM | | GEE ,,,,you dont smoke POT ,,,so i cant be associated with you ,,,,,,cant say i hear that one every day !! | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:52:22 PM |
you dont smoke POT ,,,so i cant be associated with you ,,,,,,cant say i hear that one every day !!
*Pffft*
Never said that... Infact, if I didn't associate with non-pot smokers would why would I waste time stating my case in this thread? | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:52:25 PM | I've never heard of Marijuana related accidents where pot was soley responsable... I've never heard of someone developing mental illness because of soley pot.
well...that's your problem! please educate yourself and at least if you are going to support something do it in a fair way by knowing BOTH sides of the story not only by acknowledging what seems convenient and practical to you and your personal existence. That is both irresponsible and discredits any form of opinion you might have.
Then have you called the police on those doctors and lawyers you know?
no I have not called the police on those people, they were grown adults who made their choices who am I to step in and tell them how to live their lives??? BUT I can step in by educating someone who is young and just starting life out on what drugs CAN do to their lives. I would never report them nor would do I want the power to make certain choices for them. I can only educate and then it is entirely up to each individual to decide. I would rather educate then lie to someone and tell them "go ahead do all the drugs you want they are HARMLESS anyway?" that's NOT being honest!
I'm sorry but your argument on legalizing drugs to use tax money to rehabilitate drug abusers is simply ridiculous when we have the amount of people dying because of unproper hospital care and lack of resources in hospitals to treat emergencies. Have you had any experience dealing with mental health at all? Please look into it and see how tarnished our mental care system is and then YOU tell ME if it makes ANY sense at all to legalize drugs. To make something legal that could potentially make those numbers of mentally disabled cases sky rocket through the roof. There are simply not enough facilities and staff to care for mentally ill patients as is imagine the chaos is they did legalize drugs.
People who want to get drugs will always get them so I am not all that worried about it. However what is the benefit from legalizing them? what is the REAL benefit to society as a whole? No one has been able to answer this objectively yet! | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:54:46 PM | """" course the folks believin this also think Dubya is a good Pres """
I'm Listening, your prejudice and bigotry are once again exposed. We in the US are of varying opinions and creeds. Grow up, or shut up!
capt | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 4:55:07 PM | ^^ Oh, thank you! You took the words out of my mouth. And I can't agree more with the fact that 'IMO' should have been inserted somewhere in that.
Sexybrainy- We're all discussing why our country has illegalized it. That's what this thread is ALL about. Everything you think you know about marijuana has been feed to you by those that think you're wrong in an alternate opinion. It's dogmatic in a sense. Do some research of your own on these studies that prove how BAD BAD BAD pot really is. Not some biased info, but actual medical studies. Then you can have you're opinion about the scum of the earth, and be able to back it up.
Hate to break it to you but pot makes people stupid.[/qoute] Like I REALLY want to see that study. I'd shut my mouth about all this, and quit smoking pot if you could produce that. In the meantime, you shouldn't be so judgemental. You know alot more people who smoke pot than you think you do. The reason why you don't know that they do, is because you're so judgemental, that they wouldn't tell you. Meekrob- I respect where you're coming from, but just because it's my interpretation (and I share it with a number of people) doesn't mean it's flawed. There are lots of things in nature that aren't good for you. There are loads of poisonous fungus, berries, plants, trees and more which aren't good for you. And there are lots that are either good for you, or not harmful. Mushrooms (certain kinds- not meaning the trippy ones) are great to eat and snack on. But mushrooms have no nutritional content. (At least according to the Audubon Society.) So they're not "good" for you. Did you know that if you made tea from needles on certain pine trees, that it would contain more vitamin C than in a serving or citrus fruit? Certain molds are highly toxic, but on the other hand that's where alot of modern day medicines have come from. So because God gave us free will, it's up to us to choose something for ourselves that isn't harmful. He gave us these bodies, and it's up to us to take care of them. In reference to "Well, what about herion (or other opiates) or cocaine- it comes from plants, too." Well, my defence is that for a person to consume marijuana, all you have to do is pull it up out of the ground- or not, pick it directly from the plant, then consume. With all the other drugs, it needs manufacturing in order to produce results. http://www.a1b2c3.com/drugs/coc08.htm (On Cocaine) http://uk.geocities.com/brown_addict/overview.htm (on Heroin) Why is marijuana so bad? I think it's because WE'VE made it bad. Just like sex, greasy foods, money, gambling, all sorts of things we've told ourselves is bad for so long that it's now like gospel. Why does it have to be bad when it feels good to have money, or have sex?It's all in how you look at it. And When I smoke pot, I feel good. I have very potent stuff, so I don't ned to smoke as much to get as high as I want to be. I don't usually go anywhere. I sit at the computer and read the news. I don't go to work stoned. I'm not mean to people when I'm not high. I feel no withdrawls if I go without. I'm not a thief because of it. I don't hurt people or cause crimes. I don't drive recklessly (and I ALWAYS use my blinker). I make alittle more than 35k a year, and I'm only 24. I'm insured. I have great savings, and I'm not a shopoholic. I shower every day and eat healthy. In a week, I might have as many as four glasses of wine. Usually more like two. Besides caffiene and nicotine, I do no other drugs. I ONLY smoke pot. So much for They are the parasites of society. And you know it. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:01:00 PM | ^ I rest my case!
I'm not even going to try to make sense of all that. But maybe once we have gathered our thoughts succinctly we can re-post. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:11:48 PM |
wel...that's your problem! please educate yourself and at least if you are going to support something do it in a fair way by knowing BOTH sides of the story not only by acknowleging what seems convenient and practical to you. That is both irresponsible and discredits any form of opinion you might have.
If you read the report in the link I posted there are many case of postive and negative aspects of drugs, all involving case studys. However it is true, in all the cases where there was negativity associated with pot there was other factors involved. Your not listening to what I am saying....
no I have not called the police on those people, they were grown adults who made their choices who am I to step in and tell them how to live their lives???
Isn't that the main idea behind all my arguments as well?
can only educate and then it is entirely up to each individual to decide. I would rather educate then lie to someone and tell them "go ahead do all the drugs you want they are HARMLESS anyway?" that's NOT being honest!
I never said doing all the drugs you want is harmless, I simply said pot is harmless. I always advise education before any choice. However is someone was to educate themselves on pot, they would find out that in addition with a long history of benign use amoung humankind, it's also harmless for the most part... If used correctly.
I'm sorry but your argument on legalizing drugs to use tax money to rehabilitate drug abusers is simply ridiculous when we have the amount of people dying because of unproper hospital care and lack of resources in hospitals to treat emergencies.
That's not the argument I made. The argument I made was to stop arresting and policing drug users. Then the government wouldn't have to spend billions of dollars on another war they will never win in extange for spending millions on helping people. Hospitals just need more funding straight up, I don't care where they get the money for that.
Have you had any experience dealing with mental health at all? Please look into it and see how tarnished our mental care system is and then YOU tell ME if it makes ANY sense at all to legalize drugs.
Drugs aren't the root cause of metal illness, you know. The sorry state of the mental heathcare system has nothing to do with street drugs. Oh yeah, as a side note, did you know these drugs they feed the mentally ill to mellow them out are basically more refined versions of street drugs?
To make something legal that could potentially make those numbers of mentally disabled cases sky rocket through the roof.
Because once something has been approved by the government it's no longer immoral, right? The only effect legalized drugs would have on the public that were not already feeling, is the upper class would need to invent a new reason to police the lower class. A new way to destinguish themselves from the rabble.
There are simply not enough facilities and staff to care for mentally ill patients as is imagine the chaos is they did legalize drugs.
You do understand you sound more like a fear mongerer rather then an educator when you make statments such as those.
People who want to get drugs will always get them what is the benefit from legalizing them, what is the REAL benefit to society as whole? No one has been able to answer that yet!
The benefit of legalization would be, additional tax money, no more over crowded prisons, cops now having the time to deal with real crimes, no more legal reasons for cops to break down peoples doors and rummage through there home, a more open society, propor studies and education on drugs and many many more. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:14:39 PM |
Why is marijuana so bad? I think it's because WE'VE made it bad. Just like sex, greasy foods, money, gambling, all sorts of things we've told ourselves is bad for so long that it's now like gospel
Cheers!  | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:16:20 PM |
well...that's your problem! please educate yourself and at least if you are going to support something do it in a fair way by knowing BOTH sides of the story not only by acknowledging what seems convenient and practical to you and your personal existence. That is both irresponsible and discredits any form of opinion you might have.
Still waiting for your backup. Where's your links to medical studies? Prove your arguement.
You talk about how you've tried drugs, then you talk about people you know that have. They have been all messed up and their lives wrecked. But your opinion is based on the experiences of others. You seem to think YOU turned out alright, and you said you tried drugs, therefore your personal experiences with them didn't ruin your life or cause you irreprible harm. If they did, please enlighten me! Because otherwise it looks like you don't know what you're talking about. My father is a prescription drug addict. It's ruined his life. I've taken pills to get high. It didn't ruin me, but I just choose not to do that anymore.
As with everything, it is up to the individual to make the decisions in his or her life and every one has consequences. If you over eat, you'll get fat. If you excersise alot, you'll be buff. Smoke alot of cigarettes, probably get cancer. Do alot of drugs, have alot of problems. So what's the problem when you ONLY smoke a LITTLE pot? There's a problem with overdoing everything. You whip cream to long, you get butter.
There would not be an increase to mental health care by only legalizing pot. You should go check out the medical journal link on the last page. We're not gonna have a massive influx of crazy pot smokers come flooding into the gates of the looney bin. It's just NOT going to happen. And since you're concerned with your tax dollars are going, why do you want to waste your money jailing non violent offenders, anyway? All that money is being wasted which could go toward met lab busts, or heavier crimes. Why jail the pothead?
what is the REAL benefit to society as a whole? No one has been able to answer this objectively yet!
Really- HOW is it so harmful? Give proof, not as you say "biased" opinion. Back yourself up. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:20:07 PM | because it creates people like you, julzdude, who would otherwise possibly be productive, rational individuals.
The hemp rope argument is fallacious, like something out of High Times.
Hemp and manila weren't replaced by nylon until decades after the the laws were passed.
The change in choices were due to the degredation of the natural fiber ropes from weathering, moisture-induced mold nd mildew, chemical exposures and because of the weight-to-strength ratios. It wasn't until the 70's that synthetics really took over from natural fiber ropes and everybody in the world was smoking pot in the 70's including aspiring presidunces.
I'd rather see it legalized and taxed even though I don't use the stuff. The losers are gonna use it either way and most are a non-violent "wha?...huh? dduuuuudddddddeeee...." crowd. That way LE could focus on the drugs which are violence-creating , like meth and crack.
In addition the sales of twinkies would go way up. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:20:14 PM | | The benifit is that money and time isn't being wasted on such a trivial thing. It's stupid. A poor spending of resources. I want my money going to alternate energy. I want it going to save the forests. Not wasting the police officers time by filing loads of paperwork, and the courts time with all the documents and the tax payers money with incarceration and Lord knows what else. That's a FEW benifits. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 5:34:06 PM | Sexyandbrainy, you said...
"And please don't answer just from a biassed pot user's perspective"
Understand my dear I do not use pot, but as a child of the 70's have had experience with the substance. It is sad for anyone to put any kind of substance abuse, be it food, drink, or herb, above his or her own family or well being. My point is this; I have seen lives and familys destroyed by alcohal, coke, anphedimines, barbs, opiates. From greater than thirty years exposure to these substances, from user, to supportive friend to concerned parent, I have a deeper understanding of the destructive powers of substance abuse, than most. My point is that the most evil aspect of Marajuana use is not the substance and its effects, but rather the sources through which pot is available. the fact that it is illegal means that the same persons that supply pot, can also provide other illegal drugs, that ARE BAD NEWS! My position is that pot should be regulated, sold, and taxed the same as booze. Guess what, they could allocate the additional revenues to the efforts to keep coke "H" and other poisins out. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 6:23:25 PM | If anyone else needs to be educated on the "effects of pot" I will gladly offer you more articles on the studies. But for now this should do.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2923647.stm
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3098
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6629828/
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/2498493.stm
http://www.jointogether.org/sa/news/summaries/reader/0,1854,575317,00.html
I'm certain pot does not affect everyone the same way but I think it's important to also site its potential negative effects. The loss of cognitive mental funtion is the number 1 negative side effect. Perhaps this is why it's become so hard to relate simple facts to some otherwise seemingly intelligent people on here??
I don't have a problem with people who use pot sparingly, most my friends do. My problem is with the effects of chronic use and legalizing pot would not benfit us as a social whole in any way or form. I have yet to see how it would benefit us. On the other hand I think it is stupid to put pot smokers in jail, I agree. It hink if anything needs to be done just use fines. Let's face it cops will not go around and fine everyone who is smoking at home so that would be a good "solution" But to jail smokers is ridiculous and to legalize it is even more ridiculous. For many shrooms or ecstacy are the drugs of choice so why not just legalize them?
To all you pot smokers out there who do it in moderation and don't feel any negative effects well, the more power to you. I also know a LOT of functioning professional coke-heads who are funny and intelligent and fun to be around. Is coke a shiiiitty drug that can destroy people's lives? you bet it is! Pot is not the same thing but it has its negative consecuences too and I find it really ignorant to not at least even acknowledge this fact.
Indica: I understand your "passion" for pot but let's just say I have a lot more years on you in life experience so take it from me, I would not be here debating something I also don't feel strongly about. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 8:40:16 PM | Sexy- I don't mean to take anything away from how you feel about the subject. And you are right about it having some negative side effects.
But pot is virtually harmless. Anything taken in excess can be bad. It's all about our choices that we make and which consequences we are prepared to accept.
For the record, I think that full head legalization isn't gonna happen anytime soon. But it should be decriminalzed, because it's SUCH a petty thing. And it should be allowed for medical use. (that's my real "passion".) If an agreement that occurs confidentially between a doctor and a patient that the patient could benifit from the use of marijuana (keeping in mind that MJ cures nothing, while aiding in the treatment of many things) then the government should butt out. When the government gets medical licenses, I'll sing a different tune. It shouldn't be up to them to decide, especially when so many of these prescriptions nowadays have such terrible side effects. I mean, you can barely get allergy meds, without sexual side effects, or something else. More than likely the Rx is pulled after a short period of time, because they discover that over time it's too harmful. (Vioxx- prime example)
I also for that matter don't understand how the FDA can give the go ahead on a drug that hasn't been tested as far as to realize long term effects. There have been so many studies on the long term effects of MJ, and everything pretty well points to the fact that there aren't any real long term maladies. Not so with ALOT of pharmaceudicals. But they keep it illegal, because "You'll hallucinate on two hits, and jump off a building because you think you can fly". Which is totally untrue. (If I ever smoked pot that made me hallucinate, I would have thought I'd died and gone to heaven. I only WISH I could find something like that...) But you take the side effects of some of these drugs on the market. Nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain, headache, stomach bleeding, sleeplessness, restlessness, liver damage, digestive problems, memory loss, sexual side effects. If your erection lasts longer than 4 hours, it's a medical emergency. (Sorry guys!) Weight changes, mood swings depression and possible suicide (according to a class action suit against the makers of Neurontin), cramps, muscle aches, and I could go on and on- and a NUMBER of the rest of you could add your own.
I hear about all this, and I just for the LIFE of me don't understand why MJ isn't at LEAST decriminalized. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/21/2005 10:29:35 PM | But pot is virtually harmless. Anything taken in excess can be bad. It's all about our choices that we make and which consequences we are prepared to accept.
I'm sorry but the argument that a drug is "virtually harmless" if taken in moderation is simply not a good enough argument. With that kind of attitude one could also say cocaine and crystal meth if taken in moderation are virtually harmless and so are other designer drugs. And they ARE harmless taken in moderation. The point being anything in moderation is vitually harmless the question is what if anything can be introduced into society that has long term effects that are more dangerous than safe and that is worth taking that risk for? when it comes to street dugs, none of them not even pot.
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| Dom me a favour!
Posted: 8/22/2005 1:11:47 AM | Do me a favour
So Smoking marijuana destroys brain cells does it?
tell it to the monks LOL
Look for Wade Davis’ the ethno-botanist and his personal experiences with marijuana
Or Andrew Weil book or http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/
http://library.thinkquest.org/C0115926/drugs/cannabis.htm
http://www.thinkquest.org/
or get on all but ignored threads regarding the CIA involvement in Guns drugs and the CIA
Or the Mena Arkansas Barry Seal
http://www.ncoic.com/clinton.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/cia/c_o_mena.html
History and usage
The narcotic properties of the hemp are well known to man from ancient times. In the different ages and cultures the psychoactive compounds that were made out of it have had different names therefore we shall call them as a whole cannabis. It looks like that the most probable place of birth of the hemp is China. The reason for this is that during some excavations on the island of Taiwan there have been found some ceramic utensils marked with a hemp rope. These utensils are thought to be 12000 years old. In ancient China they used to make threads and paper out of the hemp, the seeds were used for oil extraction and in medicine the stems were thought to be the best way to banish demons and evil spirits.
The first scientific data on the hemp was recorded in the ancient book of medicine “Pen Tsao”, thought to be written by the emperor Shen Nun himself. According to the Chinese the hemp resembled the perfect match between Inn and Ian; they knew for sure that this was a dioecious plant, or in other words there were male and a female plants. Through the eyes of the Chinese philosophers the male plant, from which ropes were made, contained the male beginning called Ian and that’s why the ropes were so strong. The female plant on the other hand was giving seeds, which contained the female beginning Inn and therefore the swallowing of the seeds or the inhaling of their vapors makes people calm and relaxed. In ancient Chinese medicine the hemp was used as an anesthetic, mostly taken in with wine. Apart from that people believed it might cure all sorts of diseases - from malaria to goitre.
During the medieval ages the usage of the hemp in medicine was reduced, but this led to its usage as a narcotic. This happened in about 600 AD. Its main supporters were the deonistic monks. Even back then the most popular members of the society stigmatized cannabis as a “reliever of sins”. But the deonistic monks reckoned that the chewing of the hemp seed makes people see spirits, and if people do this long enough they may even contact them. They suggested that the seeds are thrown in the fire and then everyone should inhale the vapors. This was a procedure, which was thought to be very valuable and that it was supposed to help you achieve immortality. Cannabis in China was always a mere pleasure for the eccentric brainworkers and its usage was never widely spread; the only serious social problems were caused by alcohol and later by opium.
From China the hemp was brought to India, where its psychotropic characteristics became an inseparable part of the culture of the country. Nowadays about 200 million people in India use cannabis. As the legend goes one day Sheeva (an Indian god) was resting under the shadow of the hemp and he tasted its leafs from curiosity. He liked it and from that moment on the hemp became his favorite food. From ancient times until today the leafs of the hemp are used for the making of a beverage called “bhang”, which is served in India, as tradition goes, to all the guests in the house. In many parts of the country people say that “a feast is no feast, when there is no “bhang” on the table”. Except leafs the “bhang” also contains milk, sugar and a wide variety of spices – from pepper to roses’ buds. In India the cannabis served the role, which the alcohol had in other societies. But some of the religious movements thought of it even more highly. The worshipers of the goddess Kali (the celestial wife of Sheeva) used it in their sexual rituals to achieve complete spiritual and carnal merging with the goddess.
The hemp was also known in other Indo-European nations. Herodotous describes its usage in the burial rituals of the Scythians: “ …they put three wooden sticks, bent towards each other. Then they stretch three woolen covers over them. They also throw some hot stones in a cup-like utensil, situated in the middle of the so made tent. Then, over the stones, they throw seeds of a hemp, which looks very much like flax. The thrown seeds make such a smoke that no other smoke-bath in Hellas can compare to it. Then the Scythians get under the tent. They are so fascinated that they start yelling with all their strength…” This ritual that Herodoteous thought to be used for clarifying of the body, looks more like a spiritual clarifying under the influence of the enchanting vapors. Plutarh and some other ancient authors a similar ceremony in the life of the Thracians; according to them the Thracians threw the ends of the hemp into the fire and then inhaled through hollow reed stems. As a result they acted as if they were drunk and later they went to sleep. In Europe the hemp was replaced as an anaesthetic by the alcohol long time ago but parts of those rituals have been kept alive in Eastern Europe until not so long ago. In Poland and Lithuania the soup of hemp seed is part of the traditional ritual for appeasement of the souls of the dead. In some parts of the Balkan Peninsula the villagers used to dance around a fire in which hemp stems were burned. The villagers were singing: ”We were in the fire and we didn’t burn, there was a plague and we survived…”
In the antiquity the hemp was popular as an exotic plant with unclear properties. Homer in his “Odyssey” describes how the beautiful Helena was suffering from depression and how she was healed with a cure which came from Egypt called “nepente” (against pain), in which many of today’s linguists see the slightly changed Egyptian name for cannabis – “nebeji”. Not until, the time of emperor August came, was the ancient world acquainted with the hemp. But even then it was thought to be a mere fibrous crop. Its narcotic properties were not known to men; the Greeks and the Romans, in this sense, worshipped the mandrake, the deadly nightshade and the henbane.
In the Islamic world the most popular of the products of the hemp is the hashish (it means “grass” in Arabic). The Koran strongly banned the alcohol but hashish very successfully has taken its place. People believe that it was brought to the Islamic world through Eastern Turkmenistan, but others think that the dervish Haidar is the one who made it all possible. He loved hashish so much that he even ordered his slaves to plant the hemp on his grave. Although the hashish was known to the Arabic world 10 centuries ago, its wide usage was connected to the prosperity of the mystical Islamic movement called “suffism”, whose followers were living as hermits, searching for ecstatic merging with God. The faithful Mohammedans were hostile towards the mystical quests of the suffists, because they thought that it is unnatural for people to live without sex. Something very interesting was the fact that hashish was blamed to be responsible for this withdrawal of people from sex. And about 1000 years later marijuana was thought to have the opposite effect – it was thought to be the reason for the aptitude of hippies to sex.
During the time of the crusades, a new Islamic sect became popular in Europe, a sect which used the hashish for its own purposes. The base of this sect was in the mountains of western Iran. In the castle of the leader, who was referred to as “The old man from the mountain”, there was a wonderful garden, full of beautiful flowers, fruits and women. The followers of the “old man”, who where intended to perform important missions, were first intoxicated with hashish and when they woke up they found themselves in the heavenly garden. After one day of happiness and unconcern they were intoxicated once more and then they woke up once more in the cruel reality of 12th century. The “old man” explained to them that they were in heaven and that Mohammed himself gave the “old man” the power to send people there for one day. After this experience the followers were ready to do anything, because they knew that after they die they would go into heaven. The sect was known by the name “Hashishists”, but the Europeans knew called them “Assassins”. They became popular after a series of brutal murders of kings and sultans, who were standing in way of the “old man”. Their name was a symbol of terror for both Christians and Muslims, until the Mongolians – another wild and uncivilized nation, who had never heard of the “Assassins”, wiped them out.
In 13th century the lovers of the hemp started organizing in groups. Their favorite gathering place was Cairo, which made the city look like today’s Amsterdam. In Cairo the clans gathered in the gardens of Kafur where they bred the hemp. Gradually they became so many that the governor of the city, under the pressure of his indignant subordinates, was forced to take measures; the hemp was burned and the dervishes were exiled. But the villagers from the near by areas started breeding the hemp and then they sold hashish to those who wanted some. The actions of the army to eradicate the sowings were in vain, having in mind the strong resistance of the manufacturers, who were defending their profitable business. Not to mention that corruption in the different levels of power made it impossible for the people to deal with the hashish-problem. The writer Mac’rizi, in 1393 AD, even complained: “…As a result of the moral degradation, the modesty has disappeared, and every bad man was doing his job…”. The situation back then very much resembles the one in Columbia and Burma nowadays.
From the Near East, through Ethiopia, cannabis was spread in eastern and later southern Africa. About 1600 AD the citizens of the south coast of Africa knew cannabis by the name of “dagga”. The story of the Bashilange people is very interesting. Their descendents live in today’s Namibia. Until the middle of the last century they were proud and warlike people, who lived at the expense of the other tribes. Then they became acquainted with the hemp, which fascinated them so much that they began worshipping it. The Bashilange people turned into a friendly and peaceful tribe, who even believed in the reincarnation of the soul. Even the judicature changed. The convicted one had to smoke until there was a confession of his or her crime or until he or she loses consciousness. But this peace, that everyone was enjoying so much, soon led to economic downfall, as for the vassals no longer paid out their taxes to the Beshilange. At last in 1876 AD the counsel of the elders was overthrown by the young strong people from the tribe, who restored the old traditions.
After America was found, the new continent revealed to the Europeans new horizons. In Europe and in its American colonies, the hemp became an important fibrous crop, but before the wars of Napoleon its narcotic characteristics were just something the scholars would argue over. The travelers told stories about how in the East the hemp was used as a replacement of alcohol. But it was not until the veterans from the Egyptian crusade of Napoleon came back and brought with them the hashish to Europe, where later it became fashionable in the high class of the society.
The story began with a French doctor named J.J. Moro de Tur. In 1845 AD he used the hashish as part of his treatment for melancholy, manias and other psychotic diseases. Meanwhile in Paris there were some rumors that some author promised a reward for the person who presents a new type of amusement. Dr. Moro decided to face this challenge and offered the author the first dose of hashish saying that this was the author’s part of the Heavens. The writer was astounded by the experience and later became the first member of “The Club of Hashishers”. The members of the club gathered once per month and some of them were from the highest rank of the then artistic class. Another writers and composers also wrote about hashish. The Cambridge students valued very much the so-called Turkish delight – bonbons with hashish, covered with sugar and gelatin. All kinds of cakes were made from hashish, all with different exotic names.
In the western hemisphere cannabis was known from ancient times, but it became widely spread in the USA at the beginning of 20th century. People believe that the Mexican workers brought it into the country. Marijuana meant every type of cheap tobacco in Spanish. Its usage was accompanied by the development of jazz and gradually from Louisiana through Chicago and New York, its path led throughout the whole country. In any case before the hippie-revolution cannabis was a type of amusement especially for the artists or for the poorest of black Americans. Because of this the campaign that was taken up by the Americans in the mid 30’s looked more like a racist act. The newspapers back then were full of frightening stories about black males who have smoked so much that they had turned violent and uncontrollable. As a result in 1937 AD a funny law was enacted: For every ounce of marijuana used for non-medical purpose the person had to pay $100. This was an enormous amount of money for the people who lived back then. Everyone who was caught with untaxed marijuana had to pay the absurd sum of about $2000 and most often those people went to jail for unpaid taxes. In the other developed countries there were no such laws - cannabis was simply banned together with the opiates and the cocaine.
Nevertheless or may be just because of this ban, the popularity of cannabis was gradually escalating until the 70’s from then until know the statistics show that its usage is stabilizing. At the moment the usage of cannabis in the developed countries is thought to be not so dangerous and many discuss the probability of it to be legalized.
Nowadays two completely different types of people use cannabis. The first one is the poorest stratum of some not so developed countries in the Middle and Near East, India and Jamaica. “The workers from the field of construction very often enjoy smoking their pipes full of ganja or drinking bhang. This makes them fell better, they don’t feel fatigue any more, they get hungry and it stimulates them, which help them overcome the burdens of the past day.” – states a report for the usage of cannabis in India. The other type resembles the educated young people from the industrial countries, for which the pursuit of new pleasures is actually a reflection of their dislike towards the requirements of the modern society. Although those two groups may look different, their members actually have a similar motivation. It is a result from the state of relaxation that cannabis leads to. It may not be able to help people get rid of their problems but at least to live with them.
Some authors stress on the fact, that these groups of people still have one very essential difference. In the East the usage of cannabis is a generally accepted way of relaxation; the people there take in relatively strong cannabis, as the main goal is people to feel its effect. In the West people think more about the social aspect of its usage – the young people smoke cannabis, because this can distance them from the life of the others. The effect of smoking of not so strong cannabis depends more on the environment, in which people smoke, rather than the effect of the substance itself.
Some authors stress on the fact, that these groups of people still have one very essential difference. In the East the usage of cannabis is a generally accepted way of relaxation; the people there take in relatively strong cannabis, as the main goal is people to feel its effect. In the West people think more about the social aspect of its usage – the young people smoke cannabis, because this can distance them from the life of the others. The effect of smoking of not so strong cannabis depends more on the environment, in which people smoke, rather than the effect of the substance itself.
http://www.roadjunky.com/travelculture/ganjahistory.shtml
Cultures all over the world used marijuana to get high and it was absorbed into many religious traditions. In India it became an aspect of Shiva and perhaps accounts for the almost permanently stoned expression of the blue-skinned God. The resin (charas or bhang) was mixed with milk and poured over huge phallic lingums in the temples dedicated to Shiva, the Lord of Bhang. Still today sadhus (Hindu monks) who belong to a Shivaite order have the right to smoke to their heart’s content.
The dervishes made plentiful use of hashish in the Muslim world though it was never quite clear what the Koran had to say about the matter. It wasn’t harem like alcohol but was still considered to be dubious. Hashish helped the dervishes in their ecstatic search for God but nowadays they generally rely upon dance, poetry and song to get high.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/sci_tech/features/health/medicinedrugs/plants.shtml | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 8:25:23 AM | Because currently Pot is an illegal drug. There is a law saying this is illegal.
Why did they ban it to begin it?
Because it causes bad side effects (yet smoking tobacco is ok) and reduces ones actions and reactions (yet alcohol is legal) and may lead to insanity or something like that.
But of course medical use of marijuana is ok now. Just as long as it is regulated, prescribed and taxes and the fact you have to be sick and near death to use it.
Am I for legalization of pot? Sure, why not. Just regulate it and tax it as we do the other legal stuff like alcohol and tobacco.
I do not see why pot should be illegal when alcohol and tobacco is legal and causes way way way more deaths, sickness and damage than pot could ever hope to be.
But again, on the books, pot is illegal. For the "safety" of the nation. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 9:31:11 AM | First I have to correct this before some ones uses it to slay the pro hemp push.
Charles Lindberg developed a new technique for making paper
Not Lindbergh, he flew across the Atlantic. It was William Randolph Hearst who had an "interest" in the production of paper from trees and is responsible for the wave of "Yellow Journalism" that tainted the reputation of hemp.
And you might want to check this out.
SENATE SPECIAL COMMITTEE ON ILLEGAL DRUGS CANNABIS :
http://cannabislink.ca/gov/senatesumm.htm#senatedrive
With respect to the effects of cannabis,the Committee observed that:
The immediate effects of cannabis are characterized by feelings of euphoria, relaxation and sociability...............Long term effects on cognitive functions have not been established in research.....
The cost of prosecuting drug offences in 2000-2001 was $57 million with approximately $5 million or roughly 10% of the total budget relating to prosecuting cannabis possession offences.................
The expression "drug addiction" should no longer be used and we should talk instead of substance abuse and dependency..............
The costs associated with all illegal drugs were $1.4 billion,compared with $7.5 billion in the case of alcohol and $9.6 billion in the case of tobacco...........
When cannabis was included in the international conventions in 1925,there was no knowledge of its effects.......
Our report has attempted to provide an update on the state of knowledge and the key issues,and sets out a number of conclusions in each chapter.
Billions of dollars have been sunk into enforcement without any greater effect. There are more consumers,more regular users and more regular adolescent users;
Billions of dollars have been poured into enforcement in an effort to reduce supply, without any greater effect. Cannabis is more available than ever,it is cultivated on a large scale,even exported,swelling coffers and making organized crime more powerful; and
There have been tens of thousands of arrests and convictions for the possession of cannabis and thousands of people have been incarcerated. However,use trends remain totally unaffected and the gap the Commission noted between the law and public compliance continues to widen. It is time to recognize what is patently obvious: our policies have been ineffective, because they are poor policies.
From the Gov't ^, for those who like to question sources.
And as to the Nylon issue, Hemp was not a true competitor till 1938 when a Machine to harvest hemp was patented and would have drastically reduce its cost. This is when Dupont's "people" moved into high gear to get it banned. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 10:02:03 AM | HOW MANY FAMILY'S HAVE BROKEN UP OR wifes'/husband's GOT BEAT UP FROM POT smokers?
COMPARED TO ALCOHOL WHICH KILLS PEOPLE AND MAKES PeoPLE KILL OTHER PEOPLE.
YOU CAN DIE OF ALCOHOL OVERDOSE. YOU CAN SMOKE 50 JOINTS AND HAVE THE BEST SLEEP OF YOUR LIFE. WHAT DOES POT DO BESIDES MAKE YOU HUNGRY AND SLEEPY.
KEEP SMOKIN THOSE CIGARETTES TOO, PEOPLE. CANCER AND ALCOHOLISM ARE RAMPANT IN NORTH AMERICA. THE POTHEADS JUST WANT TO BE LEFT ALONE. TOO SMOKE THE WEED. WE DON'T EVEN WANT IT LEAGLIZED CUASE THE GOVERNMENT CAN'T GROW IT LIKE LY "GUY" CAN. aND TAXES ON A BAG OF POT WOULD BE FOOLISH. SO LEAVE IT ALONE. IT'S NOT AFFECTING YOU AT ALL.
SO GO HAVE A DRINK TONIGHT AND SLEEP WITH SOME STRANGER YOU MET AT THE BAR. OR ON-LINE.
OR BEAT UP YOUR SPOUSE CASUE YOUR SO DRUNK, HAVE A CIGARETTE AND GET LUNG CANCER.
OR SMOKE A JOINT AND LAUGH AT THE WORLD FOR BEING SO UP TIGHT AND MESSED UP. LIKE ALL YOU ANTI-POT-PEOPLE. DON'T KNOCK IT...BECAUSE MOST OF YOU ALL SMOKE, PREFORM FELATIO, CUNNIGULUS, DRINK BOOZE, AND EAT TAKE-OUT FOOD...WHICH IS WAY WORSE THEY SMOKING POT AND GETTING A LITTLE STUPID. RIGHT?
MY LAWYER WHO MAKES 100,000$ A YEAR, EASY, SMOKES AN OUNCE OF WEED A WEEK!
HE'S FILTHY WITH MONEY AND NOT STUPID AT ALL. ACTUALLY REALLY SMART FOR A 36 YEAR OLD. HE TELLS ME TO TELL YOU ALL TO GET A JOB AND STOP "TROLLING-FOR-STARNGERS-ON-LINE"! HAHA
SO STOP GIVING YOUR POINTS AND VIEWS ON SOMETHING YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT...BUT YOU READ IT IN A BOOK AND YOU CAN CUT AND PASTE WELL!
Maybe focus on single mothers and why they continue to troll for dates and sex on-line while their child is trying to find out who their real father is. Put your efforts and brain into that...something most single mothers are good at. Jumping to the next person to take care of them. Now thats a PROBELM!
Cougars with kids.com is what it should be called. Not Plentyoffish-plenty of single pissed of mom's.
Leave the pot-heads out of your little studies and ideas. Single mom's is an epidemic.
Kids without dads...look into that!
T | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 10:37:54 AM | ^^ Clearly it makes some people emotionally unstable too! Why are you shouting dude? For an "easy going" pot smoker you demonstrate an awful lot of rage!!! I'd hate to have this conversation face to face...sheesh! Somebody didn't get their daily fix......
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 11:03:36 AM | | the only thing i ever got from smoking pot was a wild imagination and a great buzz. i also made a shitload of money and retired at the age 37. so stick that in your pipe and smoke it. if you can,t handle smokin dope than don,t !^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ | |
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