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Scot45
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Joined: 7/24/2005
Msg: 76 | |
| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 11:30:43 AM | Simply put, to those who wonder why and defend smoking pot or any other form of drugs, ask yourself this:
Want your doctor who is going to perform surgery on you to have just finished smoking a joint?
Want your pilots who are just preparing to take off on your vacation flight someplace to have just finished smoking a joint?
Want your cab driver who is racing down the highway at 90 mph to have just finished smoking a joint?
Want your kids babysitter to have just finished smoking a joint before arriving to look after your kids for the night?
Want your pools lifeguard to have just finished smoking a joint before going on duty to look after the safety of your kids in a public pool?
Want your kids teacher to have just smoked a joint before class everyday?
Want your firemen to have just smoked a joint before being called to save your house from a fire with you trapped inside?
Want your cop to have just smoked a joint while you are being held up or hostage?
Any rational thinking person to any of these questions will say no for a simple reason, pot is a mind and body altering substance with effects that impare a persons abilities to think clearly or to react normally, and therefore it is a drug! Legalizing it would make it acceptable for any person to take whenever deemed appropriate to do so.
Ok, so some will say yeah but alcohol does the same thing, and it is legal, and so it is, and unfortunately alcohol has destroyed many lives and families from its abuse, do we need the same from pot to make our society an even worse one than it already is?
Another point of view is make it legal and cut the crime and gain from the taxes, give me a break, crime won't decrease anyone who believe that needs to get off the pot right now, and gain from the taxes, another fantasy, as the taxes from alcohol doesn't come close to covering the effects of what drunken people inflict on societies today from battered spouces right through to killing people in vehicles!
Would legalized pot make a change in society, as a whole, society tends to over indulge in things which alter ones perception on things, so is the outcome from legalizing pot going to make our society any better, well just judge the effects alcohol has played in society and the answers are right there before you to see!
Another simple fact, like with everything grown, there is no control over the standards of pot, so legalizing it comes with what safeguards, some scientist someplace will manage to make a strogner strain of it, thus causing its effects to be more potent than a person is use to, thus blowing the misconception that pot is ok, so the outcome from anything which has no bounds because it is only "POT" is simply not true in the least! | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 11:44:07 AM | If hemp is so bad for "us" then why did it take over 6,000 to find out. Prior to Hearst's "Yellow Journalism" Hemp had been in daily use by most of the Human race for 6,000 years. Yet not till the 1930's is it decided that there is a problem. Why??
We have records from all most every age that site problems with alcohol. But Hemp, the first plant Humans cultivated, is Suddenly found to be evil about the same time Dupont was looking to make big buck$ with Nylon and their Chlorine based paper process. And Hearst sitting on huge tracks of other wise worthless wilderness. Hmmmm?
What you think the Gov't is worried about your health?  | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:15:03 PM | Using ethnic cultures who use drugs is not a great argument because what they use are forms of drugs that are very different from what is grown in the western world and today's versions of "hemp"are very different and a lot more potent than the stuff grown hundreds of years ago.
In Bolivia the Incas chew coca leaves, farmers and children and women are constantly chewing these leaves to get through the daily tasks. In Afghanistan they grow opium and smoke it and you can see men strung out on opium on the streets. In Mexico native tribes have Peyote which for some has produced out of body experiences putting them in touch with a different realm, for others it has made them completely lose the plot. What is your point???
When you consider the effects of "native" drugs on its people you also have to consider that there are generations of exposure to these drugs so the tollerance is built into the genes and thus making it safer to use for these people in particular. And don't kid yourself, oddly enough addiction still occurs in thes primitive settings. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:24:39 PM |
Using ethnic cultures who use drugs is not a great argument because what they use are forms of drugs that are very different from what is grown in the western world and today's versions of "hemp"are very different and a lot more potent than the stuff grown hundreds of years ago.
Your like a toned down 'Reefer Madness', heheh. Kinda cute. Unfortunatly there's no magical hyper potent weed that emerged in the 20th century. The advent of technology has made it possible to get more potent yeilds more often, but all in all, weed strength has not increased.
When you consider the effects of "native" drugs on its people you also have to consider that there are generations of exposure to these drugs so the tollerance is built into the genes and thus making it safer to use for these people in particular.
Who are you to say people here in North America don't have a generational tollerance (if such a thing even exsists) to drugs?  Infact, drugs are all over our culture here in the west. Just because you seem to associate them to the lowly crack heads asleep on the streets doesn't mean there not in more places then you think. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:26:08 PM | Again you're off about how a few people allow their lives to get messed up and use that to generalize about everyone and every drug in every culture. I say that to those type of people it does not matter which substance they get presented with, their lives are a mess.
And yes after 6,000 years our bodies have/do adapt to regular use of something. Why else would our brains have a receptor for THC? | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:28:55 PM | Well yu may be sexy and yu may even be brainy
however on this topic you are ill informed and I suppose that is ok for you to be so I shall get to the other culture thing in a mo. For now if you wanna be be right be right for you and stop speaking in absolutes, or not | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:51:03 PM | (Using ethnic cultures who use drugs is not a great argument because what they use are forms of drugs that are very different from what is grown in the western world and today's versions of "hemp"are very different and a lot more potent than the stuff grown hundreds of years ago. )
poorly framed argument and displayed unforgiveable examples.
Your assertion of brain damage was blown out of the water. Monks Sufi's have been smoking Hashish for hudreads of years and in the case of sufi's written poetry , created Philosophic argument, still in use to-day, all while smoking pure resin (hashish) of the female hemp plant which equals any current BC bud .
The chewing od caco leaf has no place in the argument of marijuan smoking nor does that of opium, peyote.
as for this blather, "When you consider the effects of "native" drugs on its people you also have to consider that there are generations of exposure to these drugs so the tollerance is built into the genes and thus making it safer to use for these people in particular. And don't kid yourself, oddly enough addiction still occurs in these primitive settings."
unless substanciated the argument holds no water.  | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:55:40 PM | "Want your doctor who is going to perform surgery on you to have just finished smoking a joint?
Want your pilots who are just preparing to take off on your vacation flight someplace to have just finished smoking a joint?
Want your cab driver who is racing down the highway at 90 mph to have just finished smoking a joint?
Want your kids babysitter to have just finished smoking a joint before arriving to look after your kids for the night?
Want your pools lifeguard to have just finished smoking a joint before going on duty to look after the safety of your kids in a public pool?
Want your kids teacher to have just smoked a joint before class everyday?
Want your firemen to have just smoked a joint before being called to save your house from a fire with you trapped inside?
Want your cop to have just smoked a joint while you are being held up or hostage?"
scot45
Great attempt and I applaud your efforts. But let me pose one simple question to all of yours.
What makes you think this doesn't already happen?
We know that there have been many instance where pilots were caught drunk before (and after) flights.
Same goes for truckers and fire fighters and cops, and so forth and so on. I do not believe it will increase the drugs usage very much as it is already being used widely and is perferred to other "harder" drugs.
So if this situation already exists despite laws that forbid it, and the fight against it is waning and to most thought of as a losing battle, would it not make sense then to legalize it and treat it just as tobacco and alcohol is?? | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 12:57:44 PM |
Great attempt and I applaud your efforts. But let me pose one simple question to all of yours.
What makes you think this doesn't already happen?
Cheers JackMack  | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 1:50:27 PM | | Sexy&Brainy, you go, girl!!!! It's about time someone put some common sense into this discussion that seems rules by people who are so blind to pot because they have been stoned out of their guords for so long they no longer have a logical brain. That's what drugs do to you. See this, well this is your brain on drugs----any questions? | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 2:29:45 PM | "perhaps the thought was started and you simply "forgot"to answer..."
some great red herrings ya got there brainy Now return to the issue of hundreds of years of holymen, sufi's and monks there wit wisdom oft quoted.
in your Hallucination of the world you are *right*
Again, you continue to put out your yellow journalism Yellow journalism ?
support this *fact*
"Have a spliff for me on that one will ya? and then come back here show off your mood swings, this thread is great for showing the emotional stability of some! it's actually quite fascinating"
what is this?^ Nothing but the last refuge of a fixed mind is what it is
you have asked what the benefits to society are by the use of drugs, fair enough. Art culture music are but a few.
I am willing to consider your claims and have found them wanting
wander around in this this unless you feel your education is complete. I doubt you will be swayed but hey who knows?
http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/ | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 2:33:11 PM |
I want to experience life in person not from couch and in my head. But that's just me, you go ahead and enjoy your fantasy on the couch doesn't do me any harm!!
Sounds like someone still wants to debate existentialism... 
Anyhow, what troubles me is the fact you seem to think everyone who smokes pot is nothing more then a lifeless coach potato. You claim to know doctors and lawyers that are on harder drugs, yet still seem to live life to the fullest. In addition you acknowledge drug use is a choice best left up to the person, whom you've prejudged to be useless to society anyhow. You claim nobody has bothered to counter your arguments, yet you do not accept any logical arguments that do not agree with yours. To tell you the truth it's times like this I'm glad life kicked the sh*t out of me, otherwise I'd still just be doing what everyone else tells me.
It's about time someone put some common sense into this discussion that seems rules by people who are so blind to pot because they have been stoned out of their guords for so long they no longer have a logical brain
So, in order to have a 'logical' brain, one must think like meekrob. It's a good thing our society isn't based upon logic. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:29:22 PM | Just some random quotes about drugs...
"My point of view, while extremely cogent, is unpopular. . . . That the repressive nature of the legalities vis-a-vis drugs are destroying the legal system and corrupting the police system."
Jack Nicholson
"I do smoke, but I don't go through all this trouble just because I want to make my drug of choice legal. It's about personal freedom. We should have the right in this country to do what we want, if we don't hurt anybody. Seventy-two million people in this country have smoked pot. Eighteen to 20 million in the last year. These people should not be treated as criminals."
Woody Harrelson
"I think that marijuana should not only be legal, I think it should be a cottage industry. It would be wonderful for the state of Maine. There's some pretty good homegrown dope. I'm sure it would be even better if you could grow it with fertilizers and have greenhouses. . . ."
Stephen King
Hightimes
Januari 1980
"Totalitarianism is when people believe they can punish their way to perfection."
House Speaker Newt Gingrich,
at a President's Day Republican fundraiser, May 1998
"[In] my era everybody smoked and everybody drank and there was no drug use "
Current DEA Chief Thomas Constantine,
July 1, 1998
"Estimates suggest that from 20 to 50 million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, smoke marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision. Yet, despite this long history of use and the extraordinarily high numbers of social smokers, there are simply no credible reports to suggest that consuming marijuana has caused a single death. By contrast, aspirin, a commonly used, over-the-counter medicine, causes hundreds of deaths each year."
DEA Administrative Law Judge Francis L. Young
Opinion and Recommended Ruling, Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law
"A smoker would theoretically have to consume nearly fifteen hundred pounds of marijuana within about 15 minutes to induce a lethal response... In strict medical terms, marijuana is far safer than many of the foods we commonly consume. For example, eating ten raw potatoes can result in a toxic response. By comparison, it is physically impossible to eat enough marijuana to induce death."
DEA Administrative Law Judge Francis L. Young
Opinion and Recommended Ruling, Findings of Fact, Conclusions of Law
"It is not the function of our Government to keep the citizen from falling into error; it is the function of the citizen to keep the Government from falling into error."
U.S. Supreme Court,
in American Communications Association v. Douds,
339 U.S. 382,442
"May 12-13: Sowed Hemp at Muddy hole by Swamp. August 7: Began to separate the Male from the Female at Do - rather too late."
George Washington
Diary
"What was done with the seed saved from the India Hemp last summer? It ought, all of it, to have been sewn again; that not only a stock of seed sufficient for my own purposes might have been raised, but to have disseminated the seed to others; as it is more valuable than the common Hemp."
George Washington
Writings of Washington, Vol. 35, pg. 72
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."
The Bible
Genesis 1:29
Cheers everyone... | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:43:00 PM | Smoking pot is a crime because a free people elected representatives who determined as a finding of fact that marijuana use, possession, or distribution needed to be criminalized in order to secure the peace and welfare of the state and nation.
Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population.
Its a drug!
Drugs and nuclear devices are not for recreational use, pot heads!!!
And those that use, possessess, or distribute marijuana need to go to an Aleautian Islands Prison to do their time, and then be released outside the gates of where they were incarcerated on islands where there is no ferry, no airport, and no bridge to anywhere, to serve long-term probation periods.
Adios Mi Amigo druggies.
Main street America is for those who want to get along and obey the law.
Criminals have a debt to pay to society of years of detention.
Its a great system.
We arrest those to use, possess, or distribute illigal substances and we chip away at the criminal element until those who are left are law abiding citizens. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:48:13 PM | This point was already argued in another thread:
----------------------
Then God said, "I give you every seed-bearing plant on the face of the whole earth and every tree that has fruit with seed in it. They will be yours for food."
The Bible
Genesis 1:29
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okay, so God made all the plants, including poison ivy. So I should smoke poison ivy, eat poison ivy, and rub it on my face. That's where your flawed logic goes on this topic.
God made pot but he didn't tell you to smoke it, ar-senic is a plant too, but does that mean you should eat it? Come on, God gave you a brain to reason with. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 3:57:58 PM |
right because art does not already exists now that pot is illegal!
Like every single artist has his/her craft induced by pot smoking?? now that is simply silly.
Being one who appreciates art in every form I find it highly unlikely that all my favourite artists were smoking pot in order to produce the art I so enjoy. This is simply getting silly now
You'd be hard pressed to deny to dynamic that drug influence on art has had... But hey, I can respect wanting to remain naive... It is bliss in it's own little way.
AGAIN, I would ask can anyone answer how we as a WHOLE would benefit from legalizing pot, but I won't since it's clearly there is no benefit? If the users can't come up with one good reason I doubt us non-users will pull for it!
There are tons of benefits... Tax dollars being the most obveious.. However the more humain answer would be to stop turning a generation of people into sterotyped criminals. There is a reason 'non-users' don't want pot legal, most simplfied; they like to feel better then the rabble. 'What, someone in my country is having problems? Wha? That's not right, this is the greatest country... No wait, they do it to themselves.. Yeah, soceity will make you rich and happy if you don't do the most superfical things those other dirty people are doing.. Yeah, thats it.'
I could care less how Woddy Harrelsen, Jack Nicholson, or Stephen King see pot!?!? or how they choose to destroy their brain cells! I am SO not ruled by the masses, obviously...
Thats funny, I thought you wanted to know how drugs have influenced the arts and you don't care what authors and actors and verious other artists are doing? Did you care Washington was clearly growing pot himself for personal use? Probally not, because that you might have to face the reality of drug use, today and throughout history. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:05:03 PM |
Smoking pot is a crime because a free people elected representatives who determined as a finding of fact that marijuana use, possession, or distribution needed to be criminalized in order to secure the peace and welfare of the state and nation.
It must be nice to get away with over simplifing your point to feel good about yourself. You know the issue goes deeper then that. It's about one class of people attempting to police and control another perceived 'lower' class.
Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population.
I wonder if you have any concept of law and it's function in society, legalwizard. Then again, it's probally hard to see from way up there.
We arrest those to use, possess, or distribute illigal substances and we chip away at the criminal element until those who are left are law abiding citizens.
Ignorance is bliss. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:14:06 PM | | we have a receptor for THC because there is a biochemicaly active analog that the body uses to negate pain. the THC molecule from pot fits right into the receptor that is really for a slightly different molecule. | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:15:48 PM | "Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population. "
Agreed! The CIA , Geo W Bush, certainly fit into this category
"We arrest those to use, possess, or distribute illigal substances and we chip away at the criminal element until those who are left are law abiding citizens. "
"Illicit drug use builds civic low-life lifetime criminal scumbags among the population."
See above response
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:40:06 PM |
Smoking pot is a crime because a free people elected representatives who determined as a finding of fact that marijuana use, possession, or distribution needed to be criminalized in order to secure the peace and welfare of the state and nation.
so everything the government does is right huh?
hahahahaha | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 4:42:50 PM | I don't need to be "enlightened"with the fact that many famous people smoke pot, I know that! I am not oblivious to that. My point was that to answer the question "how does legalizing pot benefit our society"with "well it is good for the arts," it is flat out a stupid thing to say. That's like saying people wouldn't get laid it if weren't for booze! Just silly.
In fact, to all those people who think that you need pot in order for art to flourish I would invite them to visit Cuba. Here is a country with a thriving artisitc population where drugs are not only not easily accessible (for the toursits maybe not so for the locals) but even if one could get a hold of stuff it is too risky to indulge because if the super strict laws. We are talking life imprisonment and possible death. You can walk into any little village or any street down in old Havana and see the expression of its people through paintings, music and literature and I have spoken to these very people and not ONE of them needed pot to expand their vision and express their talent. I purposely have had this discussion with those people since in a place like that you'd think would be conducive to escapism yet one of the best answers I got was that for them expressing themselves through their art WAS the escape. There is this general tribalistc and primal feel that cannot be explained when you sit and observe the native people in El Malecon or walk down a side street off in Old Havana and see a man mid afternoon painting a human sized portrait of an abstract woman that is only alive and apparent in this artist's head, a sheer figment of his imagination contrastic the surroundings he paint in! You see art everywhere you go, EVERYWHERE. The art they produce is full of life and character. You feel the passion in the air. THAT is as real as life gets yet there is something so surreal about how they are as a whole and their surroundings. There is no high in this wold that compares to some of the discussions I have had with Cuban artists and their philosophies on life itself EVEN with the limitations they have to freedom of press, to travelling and the media itself they have managed to expand their minds in a way that neither you nor I might even undestand possible. Yet it is. And it all stems from something so basic like human suffering and longing, from animlistic passion. Something most HERE in our "bourgeois lives" forget we have. The point is EVERYONE is more or less artistic in Cuba and I know it's the same throughout humanity no matter where you are in the world, the difference is that we in the first world are so caught up in our superficialities we FORGOT how to get in touch with those inner artistic inclinations we all have so we NEED drugs in order for that expression to happen. It's sad, very sad!
So PLEASE do not try to tell me what is "needed" in order for art to flourish. Living in a society where everything and anything IS accessible there is no bigger deseased humanity than one who is so bored and nauseated by its own freedoms that feels the only cure for their self inflicted depression and apathy is the escape through chemically induced highs.
Don't undestimate my intelligence and give me the crap about art flourishing thanks to pot because THAT is naive. If you want to sit around and kill brain cells I said it a million times and I'll say it again, go for it but don't try to force feed me your bored views on how MY life would be better if we could make pot legal. My life is just fine thank you very much! | |
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| Why is smoking pot a crime?
Posted: 8/22/2005 5:21:10 PM | | I got better things to do with my money to destroy my life.I work with so call grown men that get high on the job.Tell them one thing and 2 hours later they do not have a clue of what was siad.Totally brain dead....Having siad that i do believe before i reach 60 years old it will be legal along with alot of other things.I just tells me where society is going.When we as a society do not know right from wrong,Then we have fail as a society. | |
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