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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/27/2004 9:04:25 PM | | I'm not a betting man, but I don't believe in abortion as a form of birth control. I can see it if the life or health of the mother is at stake, as the result of a rape, or if the child will be born with a serious mental or physical deformity. I'm totally against partial birth abortion, especially now that I know how its performed. In Virginia, if someone is convicted of killing a pregnant woman, its two counts of murder. Yet, if a doctor aborts a fetus... its legal. I guess murder is in the eye of the legislator. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/28/2004 10:57:27 AM | lmao,easytag...must be philosophy class?? Comparitive religions?? Anyhoo~I know how ya feel...been there, done that.Heres my contribution to your study: 1a.Yes 1b. Yes....wait-No.Wait--yes.Wait...ahh,f*ck it...depends on the age of the embryo/fetus, and the reason for doing it. Incest,rape, or endangering the mother's life-no, I wouldn't bet my life.Most any other reason, yes, I would. I think.  | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/28/2004 11:11:44 AM | | errr...forgot about the other issue.Morning after pill and such-no, wouldn't bet my life.Partial birth abortions,-most defintely would. That's some seriously sick and twisted sh*t...Murder-no doubt about it. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/29/2004 1:38:31 PM | well here's the way i see it. like i mentioned previously, God is a God of absolutes. i believe he sees things in black in white, as either right or wrong, sin or not sin. but, we as human beings aren't as much like that. many here see many "gray" areas in the argument. some say it depends on what time period the pregnancy is in, and so on and so forth. but i believe, that if the God i serve sees things in black and white, i have to do my utmost to do the same.
there is one other strong realization i've made while thinking about this over the last few days, and i believe it's a very strong point.
IF YOU ARE PRO-CHOICE BUT YOU WOULDN'T BE WILLING TO BET YOUR LIFE THAT YOUR RIGHT, HOW CAN YOU POSSIBLY FEEL JUSTIFIED IN BETTING THE LIFE OF THE BABY?
if you wouldn't put your own life on the line, how could you put another's?
i mean really, even if someone is 99.9% sure that abortion IS right, and IS NOT murder, shouldn't you still be driven to be pro-life? if for any other reason than the fact that you might be wrong. is a .1% chance on the lives of millions each year really a risk we want to be taking? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/29/2004 6:15:06 PM | | easytag~You say you believe God is a God of absolutes,...only black or white, no gray areas. It's either right or wrong-- a sin is a sin. I, respectfully, disagree. I* believe that He looks into your heart/mind and can see motive/intent. For instance: If some low-life breaks into my house and steals my hard-earned money, or posessions so that he can pawn them off and buy drugs....I believe God looks at that quite differently than a young, very hungry boy in Afghanistan, or Cambodia who goes into a market and sticks a banana in his pocket because he's literally starving. Both are stealing-but for very different reasons. One deliberately chose to do wrong, the other was only trying to survive-and God,being fair and just, would take this into account. Life is more than just black and white, and God/the Higher Power(s) know this. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/29/2004 6:48:06 PM | | easytag... obviously you're entitled to your opinions but to believe that your beliefs and opinions are the end to all means is rediculous. you should keep in mind that you are not able to have an abortion, let alone go through the physical pain of childbirth so you can't even begin to sympathize with a woman on this issue, lest you forget there are countless religions out there, your god is not the only god that people look to for guidance through life, most religions teach you not to question god, and always remember that we are all sinners and it isn't up to you to decide our penance in life or death... that's the big guys job and you are not to question him ever. you should give the same respect to women, given it is their right to choose whether you agree with their choice or not. whether you be pro-life or pro-choice doesn't matter... we are all human beings and we deserve to be treated with respect. did god give you permission to put down those that are pro-choice? did god tell you that you were better than someone like me who believes in a woman's right to choose? keep in mind that abortion is not a procedure that i would succomb to... i think you have some soul searching of your own to do. none of the questions you pose have any substance... why? what's the real issue with you & abortion? just speak your mind and stop dancing around the bigger issue. we're all ears here ;) | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/29/2004 11:41:48 PM | | the main issue in these topics always gets stepped on.. and piled up with religon.. everyone that is religous thinks that they are the only that is right.. and that there choice should dictate others.. im not for nor against abortion.. there calls for a time when it needed and theres a time when its not.. but no one has the right to say no to the issue cause your religon is against it.. its like me not being allowed to drink alcohol cause your god says no.. even when i dont believe in god in the first place.. why does your belief have to dictate how i wanna live my own life??? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/30/2004 10:29:22 AM | Abortion is such a tough social issue.
No question in my mind it is murder, if the envelope scenario was realistic I would take the envelope. The purpose for the vast majority of abortions is to simply escape personal responsibility in my opinion. The child is innocent the two people having sex are not.
It's such a double standard too, a pregnant woman gets killed and it's a double homicide, a woman uses abortion as birth control and somehow it's her 'right'.
Go figure... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 11/30/2004 10:49:57 PM | 1a) Maybe, maybe not; 1b) I have better things to do
The problem I have answering any clearer is that this question is framed in black-n-white absolute terms. You might want to expand your questioning to consider other lines of thought.
Speaking of absolutes, if you really do take an absolute position, things break down. At some point we make a judgement call at a seemingly arbitrary point. The definition of human life beginnig with the fusion of an egg with a sperm really is just an another seemingly arbitrary point.
Before the sperm and egg fused into one cell, were they not already two living cells? Therefore, thinking in absolute terms, did they not comprise an unborn person before they fused? Don't every sperm-egg pair comprise an unborn person? If I let any one of my sperm cells die, did I not commit mass murder of billions of unborn people, as that sperm pairing with every human egg cell in existence constitutes another unborn person? But then if I do let a sperm fuse with some egg cell, I have denied the possibility of that sperm cell fusing with any of the other billions of egg cells out there, and, therefore, I'm committing mass murder of unborn persons by helping any one of them to live. We could try to solve this predicament by cloning all of our sperm and egg cells (let M be the number of sperm in all men in existence and N be the number of egg cells in all women in existence, then, clone each sperm cell N times and each egg cell M times for a total of M*N sperm and M*N egg cells; but then all we have done is made the predicament worse as each individual sperm is part of M*N different unborn people instead of just N). Oh, and for each of those unborn children I kill, am I not also killing all of their potentially infinite line of descendants, since the bodies of their descendents are embodied within their bodies in the form of cells that will eventually produce egg-sperm to form them. 
If we really do want to draw a line in the grey sand somewhere in this process, where it is insignificant goo on one side, and instantly becomes a complete sentinent human being the moment it crosses that line, there is no clear undebatable answer as to where that line should be. Your religious teachings may draw the line at a certain point, but others may disagree.
I would never want to father an unwanted child, and would strive to find find that child a loving home through adoption or whatever if for some reason I failed to be responsible. But others, including the mother may feel differently and I respect this. So you can put me in the bucket of being personally opposed to abortion but not wanting to legislate that upon others, except in certain cases. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 9:45:42 AM |
I just don't get this!? All life is innocent, Watchman. What is so 'sinful' about the two people having sex?
'Sin is a man-made creation to foster control over others'
I never mentioned sin Chelle. I clearly stated that the child is innocent the two people having sex are not. Let me break it down for you.
The two people have a choice, they can choose to have sex or not, the woman can choose to abort her unborn baby or not. The innocent child does not get to have a choice.
I agree that all life is innocent. I also think no one should not have the ability to deprive anyone of that life regardless if they are two weeks or 90 years old | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 10:25:08 AM | I really wish there was an edit feature on these forums )
I agree that all life is innocent. I also think no one should not have the ability to deprive anyone of that life regardless if they are two weeks or 90 years old
This should read:
I agree that all life is innocent. I also think no one should have the ability to deprive anyone of that life regardless if they are two weeks or 90 years old. In other words it's not just about the right for a woman to choose, it's also about the right for the unborn baby to have a choice. That is if you really believe that ALL life is innocent right? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 10:49:56 AM | Laws:
***Laws are created to protect the people that they govern.****.........IRONIC
Abortion is "the greatest destroyer of peace today".......Mother Theresa
We were not given life to take the innocent life of another......~~Angel~~ | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 11:52:19 AM | | 2 wrongs dont make a right! Why is this always the pro choice biggest argument!! It really has no fondation! Yes she should carry the baby and give it up for adoption. Its not the babies fault why kill them! | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 12:09:55 PM | Chelle,
I understand your point and I agree that there may be medical reasons that could cause major risk to the life of a woman if she were to carry out a term pregnancy.
On the other hand apart from a serious medical condition I cannot agree with abortion, yes even in rape cases. I happen to know a woman who was herself a rape baby. She has a degree in Law and has two books out that she wrote on the subject. She has kids and is a beautiful, intelligent, practical woman. She is alive and has kids because her mother thought it was more important for her to work through her trauma than it was for her to end a life that wasn't hers. Her choice was the right one....
I understand you believe that a woman has the right to choose. I strongly disagree and believe that the unborn baby has a right to live. I further believe that a right to life outweighs a right for expediency or convenience... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 12:25:56 PM | Well some people are raised by society.......
I find it unfortunate that a woman would put her own needs above that of an innocent child...who is conceived in a rape.
So I guess it's okay to pass "the buck" in this case and for the woman "victim" to get her justification by now moving the role of the victim from herself to that of her unborn child... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/1/2004 12:36:34 PM | Just a note:
I always find it amazing when women who have not ever experienced giving life...to be the first ones in line screaming that it's ok to take the life of their child.
Chelle: I have always valued your postings in other areas.... we will just have to agree to disagree on this topic.
I do agree with you on one thing tho, a woman is NOT obligated to be "vessel"..just a mother. | |
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