| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/2/2004 2:14:42 PM | Help me understand how it isn't a preference Chelle.
The way I currently see this is that the woman simply does not want the burden of giving birth or the responsibility of having to take care of a child. The statistics for abortion in Canada for example show that only 1% of them were from rape cases. I would find it hard to believe that serious medical conditions would account for many more that that. So even if we say 5% of the abortions are arguably necessary.
What would the reasoning be for the other 95%? How would any of these reasons not be just the preference of the woman?
Can you explain this to me? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/2/2004 6:35:47 PM | watchman... and why do you suppose adoption rates are down? it would be my guess that it hurts far more to carry the child to term and give it up for adoption then it does to terminate the pregnancy. again... this isn't a topic you can speak from personal experience on so although your opinion matters, it's not one of personal experience. i know i couldn't carry a child to term, deliver and give my child up for adoption. i got pregnant at a young age and gave my son life but i could never do it again... not only is one enough but my son is a true blessing and i probably wouldn't get that lucky if i had another. :) so, i take precautions in order to avoid an unwanted pregnancy. do you condem a woman like me who takes birth control pills?
and as far as the two children born as a result of rape... my son's friend shared with me that she's rather not be here. although she's not suicidal, she confided in me that her daily exsistance is a constant reminder of the horrible act that brought her into this "jacked up world we live in" as for her little brother... the subject has never come up with him but he has his own life issues so his sister says. and like it or not... the father that raped their mother has rights too... he pays child support, they were married, and the courts decided he would have ample visitation rights. another example of we may not agree with it but the laws protect men like him as they do women who excersise their right to choose.
it's really not fair for you to assume that all people feel the way you do about this issue no matter the circumstance. each person is affected in ways you may never understand until you have walked a mile in their shoes. this is one reason WOMEN have the right to choose and men don't. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/2/2004 6:44:28 PM | ok watchman... you say "Why stop with the unborn though? Should we just euthanize those that get "too old" as well? That would certainly help with the "more than enough life on this planet" theory."
to that i say... yes, we should be able to euthanize those who get too old or are suffering through their last moments in this life. watching people die of cancer is heinous! i hope to god i don't suffer in death but if i were to be suffering, i'd rather be put out of my misery. we humanely euthanize animals and we should offer the same courteousy to human beings. it is legal to "pull the plug" do you consider that murder?
and as far as this statement goes watchman "Perhaps we should start running early pregnancy checks to determine if the fetus is "worthy" so we can better decide if it should be aborted? How about we just jump straight to selective genetic engineering?"
medical technology has been able to detect pregnancy early on for a long time and women with a high risk or troubled pregnancy are given tests to determine if the fetus is viable. if it is found that a fetus has significant birth defects i'm sure the mother is given safe options. for instance... if i were carrying siamese twins... i doubt i'd give birth to them only because of the medical nightmares they would have to endure and the life long stigma that would be forever associated with them and so on. there are numerous birth defects today that would cause me to consider terminating a pregnancy even though i'm completely against abortion. it's just too tough a situation to simply give up my right to choose because even though i take precautions.... this could happen to me! | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/2/2004 6:50:14 PM | | watchman... have you ever gone through the process of abortion? i went through it with a friend and i'll tell you this much... if a woman goes into an abortion clinic, she does not have to share her reasons for terminating a pregnancy. and if she so chooses to share the details and mentions she was raped, that opens a whole new can of worms for her.... just as in emergency room visits by battered women. if you tell the medical staff you were raped, they will get the police involved and most women who have been raped do not report it so double check those actual stats before you throw them out there or believe what you read. and remember, women also have the right to privacy... they do not have to justify their choice to abort. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 12:28:08 AM | For one the choice is life and death, for the other it is merely preference. The right to live has to outweigh any preferential right.
Unless I am badly mistaken, this has been the Center and Forefront of the Entirety of the Abortion Argument.
Whose Rights take Precedence?
Taking away the Right to Live has to go way beyond anyone's Choice.
Supreme Court Ruling of Roe vs. Wade erred in 1973. Bad Call!
if you tell the medical staff you were raped, they will get the police involved and most women who have been raped do not report it so double check those actual stats before you throw them out there or believe what you read.
Oh, beautiful! And who is going to get raped next? Maybe if the last Woman had made a Report you might not have found yourself at the Abortion Clinic, possibly borne out of Irresponsibility in the first Place. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 4:45:58 AM | | It is a choice. It's a choice of whether you want to kill something that is developing faster than it ever will for the rest of its life (a baby in a mother's womb), whether its partial birth or not. This is a being that is developing even minutely at this stage of life. Of course it's a alive! | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 6:39:20 AM |
they do not have to justify their choice to abort. If I had my way, they would be placed in jail for murder and a jury would decide their fate. So to address the point, yes they most certainly do have to justify killing ANYONE!
It's a sad world we're living in when a child's life means so little we think we can just kill them off at will. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 7:05:55 AM | I agree with you Watchman....it is a sad world we live in when a child's life means so little that we can just kill them off at will..
I read so much information on this very issue... and Canadian Statistics are frightening!!
The statistic on teens alone....using abortion as a form of "birth control".....it's astounding.
MPOV: Abortion is NOT bith control....it's murder. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 7:22:52 AM | It can be made much more comfortable for the teenager than your description here indicates. There are organizations that believe strongly in the preservation of ALL life including the teenager. They will provide the funds for the teenager to live healthy and be well taken care of. They will secure the very best parents for the new born baby to be adopted by. They will assist the teenager in getting her diploma from High School and in making better choices in the future.
The teenager gets her education, the baby gets to live a full life with loving parents. Quite a sharp contrast from a teenager that has to deal with killing the baby with an abortion and the baby who gets to die... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 7:22:54 AM | I understand what you're saying Dragonn....
But I'd rather see our government spending money on safe sex campaigns... proper bithcontrol, or even abstenance...... if that's still even an option now aday.
I am very familiar with this topic as I was a teen mom who chose to have the baby and place it up for adoption.
I have talked on this subject to various "Unwed Mothers Homes" schools, and lecture halls at the university here. I have also written many a paper on this issue.
Babies having babies ... it is an epidemic. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 7:44:54 AM | First off I would love to see the statistics on the suicide rate and how it is directly linked to the pregnancy, the percentage is very likely so low it would be negligible compared to the number of babies being killed.. With the proper intervention there would be no suicides or dead babies.
Surely you would agree that no teen suicides related to pregnancy and the babies getting to live full lives is a much better alternative to anyone dying? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 7:46:25 AM | I can fully appreciate all sorts of Problems crop up with Pregnancy. Perhaps a better Educational Campaign for the young ones, better Family Values, Contraceptives, etc.
It would also be a good enough Reason to make Porn illegal. I doubt the Porn Freedom-Rights Proponents rarely look at it from Society's Perspective. Unfortunately, that is pretty well a legal & practical Impossibility.
Should the U.S. Supreme Judgement be reversed, I am very certain the Gov't will put all the necessary Pieces into Place to remove the major Barriers to facilitate carrying the unborn to full Term, such as assisting young Moms and Adoptions, much of which has already been in Place for Decades. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 7:56:19 AM | I agree Ticket I'd rather see more Educational Campaign's for the "young" ones.... There are other options besides abortion.
My point earlier was not are is one life better to take than another....
My point was one has a choice the other doesn't. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 8:45:17 AM |
Young motherhood could possibly be associated (snip)
The inherent flaw in your argument Dragonn, the words "could be"
I'll ask the question again:
Surely you would agree that no teen suicides related to pregnancy and the babies getting to live full lives is a much better alternative to anyone dying? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 9:32:54 AM | The reality I see are millions of babies being killed each year with abortions. Do you not see this reality?
Surely we do not live in a perfect world but does that mean we should just throw our hands up in the air and give up?
The first step to making the situation better is by stopping abortion and creating more facilities to help women that are pregnant and save the lives of their babies rather than just killing them off. That would be a good start... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 12:01:32 PM |
I simply cannot accept babies dying by the millions....
It's not a perfect world but I feel we all have a responsibility to preserve life....
Furthermore, these are Matters that concern the Human Race, and the Gov'ts, its representatives, not only have the Rights, but also the Responsibilty to ensure its Preservation. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 10:17:46 PM | fact is watchman... you don't get your way & women are not required to give any reasons for their choice to have an abortion. they are counseled at the clinic to ensure they have made the best choice for themselves and that's it.
you said "If I had my way, they would be placed in jail for murder and a jury would decide their fate. So to address the point, yes they most certainly do have to justify killing ANYONE!" | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/3/2004 10:26:35 PM | dragonn... you're an awesome person! :) love your take on this issue... big hugs ;)
p.s. you're right... watchman isn't seeing past the nose on his face. he definitely watches but just doesn't listen. sadly, that's been my experience with most pro-lifers... it's their way or the highway & quite frankly... it's not worth our time. | |
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