| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 5:54:03 AM |
fact is watchman... you don't get your way & women are not required to give any reasons for their choice to have an abortion. they are counseled at the clinic to ensure they have made the best choice for themselves and that's it. For now that is true but that will change in the near future. We've already stopped partial birth abortions, the next step will be to stop all abortions not based on serious medical conditions.
You can be happy large scale murder is being permitted for now, I'm certainly not happy for all the babies being killed off and it won't be permitted forever. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 6:59:52 AM | my two cents
i may not like it but raped victims have rights to abort a fetus - for many reasons - including the rejection the child may have from the birth mother ...
Day 1 - conception takes place.
7 days - tiny human implants in mother’s uterus.
10 days - mother’s menses stop.
18 days - heart begins to beat.
21 days - pumps own blood through separate closed circulatory system with own blood type.
28 days - eye, ear and respiratory system begin to form.
42 days - brain waves recorded, skeleton complete, reflexes present.
7 weeks - photo of thumbsucking.
8 weeks - all body systems present.
9 weeks - squints, swallows, moves tongue, makes fist.
11 weeks - spontaneous breathing movements, has fingernails, all body systems working.
12 weeks - weighs one ounce.
- there are places that perform abortions up to 24 weeks ... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 7:05:36 AM | o yeah as far as the bet would go - no of course God would not Bet - but havent many of you ask yourself - does God have a sense of humor ....
i would take it - the idea of talking to God - now thats worth dying for - i would open the envelope ... | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 8:56:43 AM | If abortion spares a child from poverty is it wrong?
If abortion spares a child from growing up in an unstable home, is it still wrong?
If abortion spares a child from growing up dealing with the rejection of having been adopted, is it wrong?
The god I know is a forgiving god, who would be the one who determined whether or not a murder has been commited. There is no one answer either way to say right or wrong. I would not open the envelope,there would be no envelope, god would not put me in that situation. I walk in the middle when it comes to god and religion, I believe there must be a higher power, but I cannot determine if it is actually god. Who ever is in control of this thing we call life, has a plan for us all, therefore, could any of you consider that even this topic may be part of that plan? The higher power is the only one capable of standing in judgement of this. We as humans are tested every day on our abilities to love and forgive. Love is not black and white, nor is it a color. Love is a verb, therefore an action, which may mean stepping over your own personal opinions and beliefs in order to pass the test. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 9:00:39 AM | "You can be happy large scale murder is being permitted for now, I'm certainly not happy for all the babies being killed off and it won't be permitted forever."
watchman.... watch what you say honey... i never said abortion made me happy. don't shove words in my mouth! this was a good debate til you started losing... you don't have to get nasty with me... i didn't write the law! | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 9:52:33 AM |
If abortion spares a child from poverty is it wrong?
If abortion spares a child from growing up in an unstable home, is it still wrong?
If abortion spares a child from growing up dealing with the rejection of having been adopted, is it wrong?
Why stop with a child? Why not ask these questions about adults too? Should we run around major cities aborting the lives of people that are living poor, in the streets without any hope?
Every living creature has a right to their life. It is not up to us to remove that right, especially when they cannot stand up and speak for themselves.
watchman.... watch what you say honey... i never said abortion made me happy. don't shove words in my mouth! this was a good debate til you started losing... you don't have to get nasty with me... i didn't write the law! I think you're a bit confused. First this is a discussion about opinions, the only losers are the dead babies not you or I. Secondly I did not place any words in your mouth, you have already said you support the current laws which permit the unquestioned killing of unborn children.
Perhaps it is your own view that doesn't look so proper when it is spoken back to you? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/4/2004 11:34:33 AM |
If abortion spares a child from poverty is it wrong?
If abortion spares a child from growing up in an unstable home, is it still wrong?
If abortion spares a child from growing up dealing with the rejection of having been adopted, is it wrong?
That always has been and always will be the case all over the World in better than 50% of the Population. Its called World Poverty.
Should better than half the Population also have been aborted? We might as well move right along to 'Planetary Population Extermination Schemes'. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/5/2004 9:35:32 AM | watchman i think it's you that is confused...
#1 - i don't believe that abortion is a large scale murder industry.
#2 - yes, this is a discussion about each persons opinions but you don't have to twist my opinion into something it's not by making your derogetory comments towards me simply because i do not agree with you. that is the most common tactic used by extreme pro-lifers and it doesn't do anyone any good... it only spawns disregard for you.
you said... "I think you're a bit confused. First this is a discussion about opinions, the only losers are the dead babies not you or I. Secondly I did not place any words in your mouth, you have already said you support the current laws which permit the unquestioned killing of unborn children."
#3 - their is no winner when it comes to abortion if you look at the issue with an open mind!
#4 - i don't support a law that specifically states it will "permit the unquestioned killing of unborn children." this is one of those comments you really need to think about before you post... I SUPPORT THE WOMAN'S RIGHT TO CHOOSE! I NEVER UTTERED A WORD OF WHAT YOU SAID! can you stop and listen long enough to understand that or are you so blown away by the facts that you can't see anyone's opinion unless it is aligned with yours?
#5 - i've not insulted you or turned your belief into something it's not... DON'T DO IT TO OTHER PEOPLE. THAT'S NOT WHAT THIS FORUM IS ABOUT... STICK TO THE FACTS WATCHMAN!
#6 - i fully understand why people feel the way they do about abortion. and AGAIN, i would not choose abortion for myself. but until such time as unwanted/dangerous pregnancies no longer exsist, the law allows a woman the right to choose whether or not to give birth to that child and it's nobodies freakin' business what that woman does with her body! her body being the key words in that sentence. none of us have to agree on this issue but as good people, you definitely should consider trying the "live & let live" philosophy of life when it comes to a woman faced with the toughest decision she will ever make in HER life! | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/5/2004 11:19:19 AM | #1 You are in denial of the facts and sheer numbers of babies being killed off every day.
#2 I didn't twist your opinion at all. The current abortion laws permit the unquestioned killing of unborn babies. You currently support the present Law correct? If you don't support the current Laws regarding abortion please tell us what you do support.
#3 I do look at this issue with an open mind, in an abortion one individual gets to live and one dies. I think it's clear who suffers the greatest loss.
#4 The Law as it is right now allows the unquestioned killing of unborn babies. If you support the woman's right to choose, then you support her being able to choose to kill off her unborn baby correct? Under the current Law a woman may 'choose' to have an abortion and not be held accountable for the reason why. I call that the unquestioned killing of an unborn baby. You can try and sugar coat it anyway that allows you to sleep at night.
#5 I have adhered to the facts as the previous 4 points above clearly demonstrate.
#6 Live and let live? That is exactly what I want! I want the unborn baby to have a life and not be arbitrarily murdered because a woman has a preference not to become pregnant. She should have taken steps to prevent that BEFORE she created the child in the first place. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/5/2004 5:37:29 PM |
Genetic defects, which are detectable at the early stages of development should be allowed to gestate?? So you think we should start genetically screening every fetus to determine if it is "worth" for life?
Who on earth gave you or any other individual that right?
Who gave anyone the right to play god with unborn babies?
Your argument has the same flaws I already addressed in this thread dragonn. I fully understand the views you post. According to these Pro-Choice arguments we should just visit mental institutions and start killing off all people who are not self-aware. Better not forget all the ICU as well, anyone not self aware or unable to survive outside the womb must be systematically killed off so we don't overcrowd our planet, after all they aren't really humans so who should care right?
The inherent problem with the Pro-Choice position is that it can be applied to handicapped and terminally ill or comatose victims. If they really believe their views, then then what is to stop them from killing off everyone else they think is not "worthy" of life? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 5:02:50 AM | women you notice it's easy for a man to sit there and abortion is murder and blah blah blah
Men don't go thru the emotions so how would they know?
Here's a scenerio for men? And this does happen to quite a few women.
Let's say a women is attacked by attacker that happens to rape her maybe she's 14-40 they find out there pregnant. They know how they got knocked up but too ashamed to say? There best option to forget about the incident rather than go thru the pain all over again. Is to get rid of what reminds them of what happened on that sorrowful day. There options are yes (A)have the baby and give it away- but yet they get attached to it being in the womb for so long. or (B)get an abortion. Majority that I know choose (b) because they don't want to deal with heat ache of looking at the attacker again again. Some would choose (a) and the child will grow up as having to deal with the pain that mother went thru. She would probably remind that child over and over or totally hide it. and (c) maybe they just can't afford it or (d) way to young to even think about being a parent.
(heck that' probably what happened with Dahmer and why he turned out the way he did. I don't but could be a senerio? Wonder if anyone really knows the background of the mother.)
I'm sorry but in circumstances like those it should rest on the person having the child. Either way It's a woman's right. But to do it out of spite to get even with the father than yes it's wrong.
It's all about the "intentions" on why they don't want the child.
I will say my sister has had 6 six kids and they finally they tied the knot... thank god.. 2 are from the same father. The other 4 she don't even know the fathers. Pretty sad if you ask me.
(FYI) I have no kids........ | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 7:38:45 AM |
Who gives you the right to tell a woman what to do with her body? The woman chose the path that got her body pregnant when she didn't want to be. Now the woman should have the right to kill the baby because she already made one bad choice?
Sorry, the life of the child has to take precedent over that.
If a pregnant woman is killed the killer can inn many instances be charged with a double homicide. Yet if the woman kills the baby it somehow becomes more acceptable? How on earth do you justify that? On one hand a killer could get the electric chair, on the other hand a woman could have multiple abortions and kill multiple unborn babies and not a thing happens. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 8:30:45 AM | They are children once the egg becomes fertilized and cell replication occurs on it's own...
It's understandable that you feel the need to dismiss them as a living species at that stage, how else could your position not affect you? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 8:39:21 AM | personally as a person with buddhist sensibilities, i cant even kill spiders, i dont think that i could personally have an abortion except under extreem circomstances. but that is me and it would be my choice either way. i whole heartedly support the right for a woman to decided what is right for her. i do not feel that i have the right or the privilege to tell other people how they can handle their own bodies. i beleive it is a womans choice and i will defend that right until my last breath.
it's like being a vegetarian. personally i cant eat meat, just the thought of it makes me feel sick and i feel sad when i see other people eat it. but i dont feel that it is my right to tell them that they cannot eat it. eating meat is a personal choice. death is a part of living on this planet, every living thing will die. it's just a fact. on a long enough time line our survival rate drops to zero. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 8:40:07 AM | If they are NOT children, what the friggin heck are they? Toads? Dogs? Plants? Fungi? None of those living creatures have the genetic makeup that a baby does, whether it's inside a womb or not.
We all agree that a seed is a living being that will germinate in due time, so why don't we apply that knowledge to babies? What are they if they are not living.
That completely skews the Law of Biogenesis. If they are not living, then they will never be living creatures. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 8:47:29 AM | No, I wouldn't take the bet, if I was in front of God, I would like to debate him on many topics for we humans are an inquisitive lot, we have a lot of questions.
As for abortion being murder, I don't think it's murder, it's ok to call killing another human murder, but killing animals seem to be okay?
If a woman's life is in jeopardy, it is necessary to save her life, and like someone said too many unwanted children in this world, some use abortion because they are too lazy to use birth control, I read this somewhere, and the rich can do anything they want. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 11:12:41 AM | Ok perhaps I have according to how you look at the question. But the way I'm asking the question is:
Do you agree that a seed is a living being? If not, ok, then we disagree
If you do, why do you not agree that baby is a living being from the time the sperm and egg meet till physical birth? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 12:49:14 PM | You still don't get it watchman.
what if it wasn't by choice..it was forced..so did the woman choose that path to go in a violent way....Like I said and you just proved my point. Do men get pregnant? No. Do they go thru as many as emotions as women do. (some but not all) and until you do. You will never know. I'm sorry but the only people I see that have the right to each B**tch about be pregnant are women. When the first man gets pregnant than he'll have the right to speak. :p
Put yourself in a woman's shoe for once.
Watchmen you will def. lose this battle........
If a woman is raped and ends up getting pregnant-that path has been choosen for her by force. She didn't ask for that. And you think that's fair? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 12:55:55 PM | We've already discussed the rape issue in this thread, statistics show that it is less than 5% of the abortions being performed. What about the other 95% of babies that are being killed?
I'm not going to lose anything rheanna, the babies most certainly are losing their lives though. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 1:06:38 PM | your just trying find an excuse now...you believe anything you hear about statistics-those are only (some) documented cases....and that's just that....(from what they know). I'm pretty sure there is a lot more than 5%.
Watchmen (INTENTIONS) of why the woman should or shouldn't get an abortion that's what should rest on.
Intentions of getting even with the father because he knows he want the baby but she doesn't and winds up getting an abortion (then I would consider that murder)
Just because she can't afford the child and doesn't have the responibility to be a parent. She's being responsibile (At the rate bush is going we are going to be broke) Country can't afford anymore kids.
No point in bringing a child into this world if you can't take care of it. It's not like cabbage patch dolls.
It believe it rest solely on the mother's intentions
Not for abortion and I'm not against it. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 1:13:51 PM | I'm not trying to look for any excuse, I'm looking to help unborn babies have a life that some people want to take away from them.
The facts have been posted in this thread you just didn't read them so here they are again.
1967: Justice Minister Peirre Trudeau introduces abortion reform bill.
1968: He is elected
****1969****
The year Canada's hellish descent into government sanctioned "abortion-on-demand" begins.
Abortion Statistics Canada.
1970 11,152
1971 30,949
1972 38,905
1973 43,245
1974 43,245
1975 57,175
SINCE 1970, THE YEAR CANADA'S ABORTION LAWS BEGAN TO UNRAVEL, OVER 1.7 MILLION CANADIAN CHILDREN HAVE HAD THEIR BRIEF AND PRECIOUS LIVES DELIBERATELY TERMINATED.
These were NOT all rape victims. On the contrary....only 1 % were voiced victims of rape.
I was being generous at 5% of the abortions being contributed to rape. The actual statistic is only 1%. I also pointed out that there are plenty of Agencies that will help place a baby into a couple's home. You should really read the entire thread here, all this was discussed in great detail before.
Back to my question that you haven't answered yet,
What about the 95% of babies who are aborted that have nothing to do with rape? Why shouldn't they get to live? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 1:18:01 PM | | Why do you think so many people are on Welfare???? In my city welfare up by 3/4 this year. Why? The more kids you have the more money you get. The intentions looking after child -hell no they just want the money so they can find an excuse why they don't have to work and be lazy all there life. Yeah that's a way for a child to live. Some kids are able to better there situation but other kids don't have that luxuary too and they become stuck in a situation that mother put them in. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 12/6/2004 1:21:59 PM | Intentions on why to have the child...not documented crap cases to give you a stupid excuse why they can't have one. Think for yourself and stop reading that garbage. Those people don't even know. so please.....
Never been in a situation of an a abortion so even I can't talk but you have to look on boths sides and not just one and not from so alled documented case statistics. | |
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