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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 7:39:29 AM | | no lottabottle, what you "conveniently forgot" was to quote me correctly. "CONTRACEPTIVE intercourse is inherently wicked, or so the church says." is what i actually said and that would be true of the catholic teachings. i don't know where you were when they taught you about fornication and contraceptive sex, maybe you were sleeping during that part. it's a well known fact that the roman catholic church does NOT condone any form of birth control... condoms, the pill, iud, tubeligation, etc. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1302 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:11:39 AM | I'm gonna open a bag of controversy with this one....
The Catholic Church will not allow contraceptive sex because God's original plan for man was to go forth and populate the Earth. (Can't populate if you wrap it in rubber)
This is true? Correct?
So the Church is doing their best to follow God's law.
The Catholic Church will allow gay marriages because according to God's law, "man shall not lie down with another man, for this is wrong in the eyes of God."
Wait a second....they will allow gay marriages because God said it's wrong?
This is true? Correct?
So the Church is doing their best to bend God's law to suit their needs?
Does anybody remember that little part in the bible where Jesus got pissed off at a bunch of guys who set up gambling tables in the temple? He chased them out of the temple with a whip! So according to the Bible, gambling in the house of God is a deplorable act. So that's why there's Bingo at Church?
So the Church is doing whatever it wants, regardless of what God's law says to do?
Let's see....if people don't practice contraceptive sex...the churches' numbers will increase, by its' members having children. It will also increase by allowing gay marriages, because it will attract the gay community to the Church.
In my personal opinion; The Catholic Church is nothing more than a fraudulant corporation, interested in nothing more than making money off of people's faith in God. In the Bible it even quotes Jesus telling his disciples not to accept coin for their deeds in the name of God, because the word of God is given freely. It's one of the wealthiest organizations in the world...they own a country! What a transparent scam. I can't believe that people still put their faith in it. How sad. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 4:15:36 PM | "In my personal opinion; The Catholic Church is nothing more than a fraudulant corporation, interested in nothing more than making money off of people's faith in God. In the Bible it even quotes Jesus telling his disciples not to accept coin for their deeds in the name of God, because the word of God is given freely. It's one of the wealthiest organizations in the world...they own a country! What a transparent scam. I can't believe that people still put their faith in it. How sad. "
just out of curiousity..why does it seem that most of the forums in here...regardless of their topic...end up being a bashing of the Catholic church? Wasn't this suppose to be about abortion? and aren't there other religious denominations against abortion? Incidently, as far as giving money to the church. That is the same for any Christian church, Catholic or not. It is scriptural Leviticus 27:30. ...is just one spot in the bible.
incidently....for those who feel abortion is ok...maybe check this out''
http://www.priestsforlife.org/resources/abortionimages/24week/01_24.jpg | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1305 | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 8:47:48 PM | | garf... i agree with quite a bit of your perception of the catholic church in that hypocrocy runs rampid BUT i've never heard of any catholic church accepting any form of gay lifestyles. and see, this is where i clash with the catholic church. i HAVE to take my anti-baby pill, i will NEVER stand in the way of a woman and her right to choose abortion & what other people do in their bedrooms is NONE of my freakin' business. ;) i may be a hypocrite just like the rest of the world but i will not step foot in a catholic church because alot of what they teach is far too conservative for my liking. i still hold a number of catholic traditions close to my heart and there are conservative views i was taught and still abide by but... if i can't be 100% dedicated to catholisism, i don't belong in the church. you see... god and i have this thing between the two of us so i don't worry. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1308 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:00:09 PM | What I'm saying is...fine, a woman can do to her body what she wants, but I personally don't think that a woman or a man has the right to decide whether or not an unborn child has the right to live.
If you don't want the kid, put it up for adoption.
If you don't want to go through with the pregnancy, use contraceptives and don't hide behind a hypocritical churchs' slanted point of view.
If you don't want to use contraceptives, don't f**k.
If you still want to have sex without control; get tied or get snipped.
If you can't do any of these, then deal with the consequences of your actions and raise the kid the best way you can, with all your love. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 1309 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:04:33 PM |
the right to decide whether or not an unborn child has the right to live.
You are imposing the definition of "child" on those who see a zygote as not being a child.
Those who define a zygote in their own body as:
zygote
n : the cells resulting from the union of an ovum and a spermatozoon
Are will within their rights to do so. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:04:34 PM |
What I'm saying is...fine, a woman can do to her body what she wants, but I personally don't think that a woman or a man has the right to decide whether or not an unborn child has the right to live.
The point at which it is a full-fledged person with a social security number, a card, etc., differs depending up on the religion or belief. | |
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Suther
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Joined: 5/20/2005
Msg: 1311 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:12:41 PM |
If you don't want the kid, put it up for adoption.
Sounds great, too bad most people looking to adopt will only adopt healthy caucasian children
If you don't want to go through with the pregnancy, use contraceptives
Not 100% effective
don't f**k.
Easier said than done
If you still want to have sex without control; get tied or get snipped.
Again, not 100% effective, depending on the age of the woman there is (I believe) a 1-10% chance of pregnancy (mostly ectopic) and 2% of normal pregnancy. Also keep in mind, that after a reversal the chances of conceiving are slim (depnding on the age of the woman) And to the best of my knowledge most doctors will not perform tubal ligation on anyone under the age of 25. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 9:17:15 PM | living, breathing children don't have rights until they are 18... so why should an "unborn" child have special rights? and how on earth do you give rights to a zygote? YOU DON'T! stay out of a woman's womb and keep your laws off our bodies.
garf... you make very valid points... don't have sex if you can't handle the consequences of having unprotected sex. the problem with that is our society doesn't hold those morals and "accidents" happen, rape happens, incest happens. i would much rather live in a society that can medically assist a woman and be safe and clean about it than live in a society that forces women to back alleys. you'll see a rise in the stock price of wire hangers if abortion is abolished, that's for sure... | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1313 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:30:23 PM | As I said in my OP, there are times when abortion can be deemed the only way out of the situation. Inceste and rape are two ways. Like I said, I'm not against the cocept of abortion, but when it becomes an easy way out of a situation that could have been easily avoided, I think it's wrong.
The point at which it is a full-fledged person with a social security number, a card, etc., differs depending up on the religion or belief. There's probably a billion people on this planet that don't exist on paper, should we just kill them and be done with it? According to some religions or beliefs, that's what this comment sounds like. Can you elaborate?
As for describing an unborn child as a zygote...that's a good way to justify taking a life, I guess. You're just a carbon-potassiate poly-cellular plasma recepticle, I guess I can justify your destruction.
Sounds great, too bad most people looking to adopt will only adopt healthy caucasian children Most, not all. And even though foster care/orphanages aren't the greatest way to be raised, at least their needs are met, they're fed, clothed, and educated. Some kids coming from this harsh background have become prominent, well adaptive members of society.
And no, contras are not 100% effective...so be prepared to deal with the consequences.
As for not f**king, if you can't control your base instincts...be prepared to deal with the consequences.
As for the tube tying, they don't tie tubes very often anymore, most often they get snipped and cauterized, so it is more easily reversable. Vasectomy is an option as well.
I agree with you Kitty in regards to the safe clean environment...etc. I don't think that abortion should be outlawed, our society is a little beyond that now. I do think that they should be screened a lot more efficiently than they are, and if the prospective parents are together, and financially stable, then they should be disallowed the abortion. A case by case basis is what I'm suggesting.
as per msg 1339:
I'm gonna open a bag of controversy with this one.... Told ya. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 1314 | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1315 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:45:26 PM | Hypothetically speaking; If the man were the one to get pregnant. and opt for abortion...with the judicial sytem the way it is today...as soon as the woman were to raise a fuss, the guy would be forced to go through wih the pregnancy, have the kid, give up custody rights to the mother, and pay child support.
Does this make sense, what I'm saying? I don't know if I'm putting this into words the way I'm thinking it, but hopefully you see what I'm trying to say. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 1317 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 10:51:00 PM | The analogy is flawed, if both genders could concieve, the laws concerning child maintenence, etc. would have likely not evolved, further ...if men could bare children they would be by definition - Female.
..some are more equal than others..
Women have more ovaries than men, men have more testicles, ....both are quantitativly equal, qualitatively, unequal. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1318 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 11:00:52 PM | Like I said, with the exception of who actually gives birth, all the current laws being as they are, (gender biased) the courts would rule in the favour of the women.
If a woman wants to have an abortion, why shouldn't the prospective father have a say in it? Just because the only thing he did was stick his wing-ding in her woo-hoo? If it's consensual, then both parties are equally responsible. If the opposite were true, then the father shouldn't have to pay child support for a kid he didn't want, when the woman had the kid, and then left him. After all, it's her uterus. (Just making a point, this isn't actually my opinion re: fathers and child support) | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 11:23:29 PM | | yep..makes sense to me Garf in this world we created..I was of course referring to the inequality in the law regarding males and females..as I said some are more equal than others...I think that came from the "Animal Farm" by the way.. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1320 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/23/2005 11:37:13 PM | All animals are created equal, some more equal than others. ~ George Orwell, "Animal Farm"
Yup, thanks for understanding what I was trying to say, at least now I know that what I was saying made sense. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/24/2005 6:12:59 AM | {: living, breathing children don't have rights until they are 18... so why should an "unborn" child have special rights? and how on earth do you give rights to a zygote? YOU DON'T! stay out of a woman's womb and keep your laws off our bodies.}
interesting....So my 10 year old has been a pain in this week..so Can I have him put to sleep? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/24/2005 9:57:57 AM | | admitone... you know for a fact that your 10 year old has to have a "parent/guardian" act, speak and sign on his behalf until he is of legal age. in CA, that would be 18. the same principal holds true with a woman seeking an abortion, add to that her right to privacy. so... if your 10 year old is being a pain this week... by all means, make him go take a nap. ;) you also know that putting your 10 year old child to sleep in the context you meant it is murder, punishable by law. ABORTION IS NOT ILLEGAL. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1323 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/24/2005 1:44:36 PM | | It's not illegal, but it should be regulated a lot more than it is now. Not just used as a form of escape from a busted condom. (or whatever reson that doesn't involve incest or rape, or the mother has some disease that can be spread to the child inutero) | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1325 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/24/2005 2:42:37 PM | ??? What the heck are you talking about???
Nobody is talking about hunting babies here...*backs away from the freak*
Kitty, I just thought of something; If the RC is so against contras, because it's mankinds' duty to populate the earth...shouldn't they be even more opposed to abortion? Maybe they are, I just can't dig up there views on it online anywhere. | |
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