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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/24/2005 8:54:10 PM | | I guess it comes down to a matter of Beliefs. Just because a Law is on the books, doesn't make it right especially in the eyes of God. I mean the U. S. of A. for many years had legalized slavery. It didn't make it right. If you are an athiest, I may not agree but I can understand completely if you are one who believes in abortion. For you base your decision on a completely different plain than I. As A Christian, God's law is absolute. Thall shall not kill. Period. It doesn't say, except, when, or sometimes it says "Thall shall not kill." I may not understand why a child is born. I may not understand why a 18 year old girl got pregnant. But I am not about to question my maker. The rights of a person over their own bodies is a tough one, yes I will admit that. And obviously as a man, it is harder for me to see from a woman's point of view. But anyone who denies that abortion is not killing of life, is living in some sort of dreamworld. My God, we are allowing partial birth abortion? Kids that are pulled out of the womb feet first, before the head is fully out, shoving a pair of sissors into the babys skull to kill him/her and then suctioning out their brains. This is ok with you? | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1328 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/24/2005 9:29:16 PM | Admitone: For those of us who aren't christian, or some who aren't even religious...the whole laws of god viewpoint is a moot point.
Religiously, it's wrong, no doubt.
Morally, is it right or wrong, is what the question is here. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/25/2005 4:37:28 AM | A living object that cannot express desire to have a continual psychological existence shoudn't be given the choice to decide its own existence.
In other words, the unborn, infants and seriously disabled people lack this property and so, under special circumstances, others can decide to terminate their existence (painlessly). The special circumstances should be such that others cannot eliminate a problem immediately which is being perpetuated by the existence of the living object in question.
eg, a woman is raped and gets pregnant (being unable to prevent pregnancy in any way). | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/25/2005 6:17:08 AM | | garf... the catholic church is quite hypocritical on this issue and it's going to be hard for me to explain here but i'll give it a shot. if you get pregnant, not knowing that the act you are committing could get you pregnant and you have an abortion, not knowing it's "not allowed", you can ask forgiveness from the church and it will be granted - for lack of better words - but you only get ONE opportunity to do this IF you meet the criteria they set. it basically comes down to this... they don't condone abortions & they definitely do not condone birth control of any form. the rules they set up are so far fetched, there's no way you could go to confession and be forgiven for that "sin" without lieing. what they expect people to do is not have sex outside of marriage... that's a real no can do with most folks these days, especially someone like me who has no plans of ever getting married. i guess i should have become a nun but it's WAY too late for that career move now. ;) | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/28/2005 11:07:15 AM | Just Because God Loves to Kill Babies, Doesn't Give You Permission!
Powerful, Godly, Baptist, Christian Sermon by Brother Harry Hardwick
During last week’s adult Sunday school class for platinum tithers, we planned next month’s protest at abortion clinics in Des Moines. After class, one of our newer members approached me and said, “Brother Harry, I have scoured the Bible and haven’t found any passages outlawing abortion. So how do we know it’s wrong?” I immediately called the class back to order and rebuked this novice Christian in front of his peers. Only a weak Christian or backslider would question a doctrine accepted by True Christians® for many years. If your preacher says something is a sin, it’s a sin – no questions asked. However, recognizing that Pastor Deacon Fred has a tendency to publish some of my sermons on the church website, and knowing that the unsaved are regularly drawn by God to our site, I decided to present the Biblical case against abortion for you this morning.
It is true that the Bible contains no verses prohibiting voluntary abortion. That, in and of itself, shows that it is a sin. The only references to abortion in the Bible are to coerced abortion as a punishment for nonbelievers, sinners and those who fail to recognize God’s chosen people. In Second Kings, we learn that Menahem, leader of the Israelites, smote all the people who refused to follow him “and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up” (2 Kings 15:16). Later, in Hosea, we learn that because the land of Samaria rejected God, “Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up” (Hosea 13:16). Hosea decided to carry out God’s vengeance on the people by killing the unborn babies carried by the heathen women. He promised to “slay even the beloved fruit of their womb” (Hosea 9:16).
Since killing their unborn children is one of the many punishments the followers of God have inflicted on nonbelievers, it is obviously not an act any True Christians® may undertake for themselves by choice. Furthermore, humans have no business performing abortions because that is God’s role. After all, it was God who killed all the unborn children on the planet (other than those of Noah’s immediate family) when He drowned everyone with the Great Flood (Genesis 7:23). And it was God who inflicted abortion on all the pregnant women when he rained fire and brimstone on Sodom and Gomorrah, killing everyone who lived therein (Genesis 19:24-25). And it was God who killed the unborn babies during the countless plagues and pestilence he inflicted on the planet throughout history. Abortion is obviously an act God reserves for punishing those groups of people who rub him the wrong way. It is not an act to be performed at human whim.
Finally, friends, there is absolutely no reason to opt for abortion when God allows us, and in some instances, orders us, to rid ourselves of troublesome children after they’re born. Wasn’t it God who said, “Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones” (Psalms 137:9)? Why insist on prenatal killing when the post-natal killing options are so widespread? The Bible authorizes us to kill just about any child who becomes burdensome. According to Deuteronomy, if a child is unruly and disobedient, we not only have the option of killing him, but it is mandatory that he be stoned to death (Deuteronomy 21:18-21). The same is true for a child who speaks to us with foul language (Exodus 21:17). Or a child who hits us (Exodus 21:15).
The bottom line is that only coerced abortion is allowed in the Bible, not abortion on demand. And God, in his infinite compassion, provided us with the means of eliminating troublesome children once they are born and we know for sure they are unwanted. So tell your skeptical acquaintances to put away the coat hangers, once and for all, and let the child be born, but have stones and the Proverbial rod handy, just in case.
~ http://www.landoverbaptist.org | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/28/2005 7:48:00 PM | peacefull hermit... i got as far as “Brother Harry, I have scoured the Bible and haven’t found any passages outlawing abortion. So how do we know it’s wrong?” I immediately called the class back to order and rebuked this novice Christian in front of his peers. Only a weak Christian or backslider would question a doctrine accepted by True Christians® for many years. If your preacher says something is a sin, it’s a sin – no questions asked."
brotha harry... i'll be honest with you. you are the perfect example of a kool-aid christian & i fear one day you'll lead your flock to slaughter. HOW DARE YOU, a "christian" man, humiliate a parisioner in front of his peers!!! you suck man...
on top of that... let me remind you of something preacher man... YOU ARE NOT GOD! and don't you forget that next time your fix your mouth to tell someone "if your preacher says something is a sin, it's a sin - no questions asked" if i could reach through this pc and smack you i would!!! you don't get to just make s-h-i-t up if it isn't in the bible and call it a sin!!! you need to do some serious soul searching before you go "spreading the word." what you're spreading are lies.
you're the same kinda preacher man that tossed my kid out of bible study for having a valid question and wanting a valid answer. fact is preacher man... YOU DON'T HAVE THE ANSWERS! that's exactly why you speak to people the way you do. i wouldn't cast stones if i were you buddy... you'll be answering to the man upstairs for your behavior one day too. you ought to take a long hard look in the mirror before you go treating people the way you described in your post. it's no wonder there are so many people up in arms about "christians" these days! | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 8:49:38 AM | | Probably people in PETA animal rights organization who throw red paint on celebrities in furs, probably also are pro-choice. I prefer to say pro-death. Some people preach to save the baby whales and mink stoles, but at the same time don't think about the defenseless humans in the womb. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1336 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 11:29:31 AM |
A living object that cannot express desire to have a continual psychological existence shoudn't be given the choice to decide its own existence.
So it's ok to kill you when you're sleeping?
RE: Kitty's last post....YEAH! 100%  | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 4:31:28 PM | hey thanks garf ;)
late... you know... it really is as simple as you put it and it's sad that people who are against abortion have to poke their noses in other people's private lives and inflict their beliefs on those who don't want their opinion forced on them, let alone be bothered with trying to justify their life choices. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 6:50:04 PM |
Kids that are pulled out of the womb feet first, before the head is fully out, shoving a pair of sissors into the babys skull to kill him/her and then suctioning out their brains.
Admitone, I see you’ve been a busy boy reading all that Republican, right wingnut evangelical fundy abortion propaganda bs on the web. Don’t you have anything better to do with your time, like, for example, help the homeless or something? It’s quite evident you quoted that stuff verbatim or have read it so many damned times, it’s circling your brain like flies around some old shrimp salad at a picnic.
I would ask you to please extricate your cybernetic nose from my private female parts; parts which are neither yours to do with, nor yours to cast aspersions at, nor yours to pass law upon, nor yours to tell me what to do with. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 6:58:38 PM |
late... you know... it really is as simple as you put it and it's sad that people who are against abortion have to poke their noses in other people's private lives and inflict their beliefs on those who don't want their opinion forced on them, let alone be bothered with trying to justify their life choices.
Otherwise known as: Intolerance and oppression.
Even if those who promote the oppression of women, graduate to promoting the sterilization of men, I'll still call it: Intolerance and oppression.
intolerance
n : unwillingness to recognize and respect differences in opinions or beliefs.
oppression
n 1: the act of subjugating by cruelty; "the tyrant's oppression of the people" [syn: subjugation] 2: the state of being kept down by unjust use of force or authority: "after years of oppression they finally revolted" 3: a feeling of being oppressed [syn: oppressiveness] | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 8:36:12 PM | HI all. This subject is one of my concerns for a long time, and for a simple reason that makes my point here :
[B] This [/B] has 5.5 weeks old, an that a women who bear what we see can call it a "part of her body"..., I'm not convinced at all. Should I ? | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1342 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/30/2005 11:20:25 PM |
I would ask you to please extricate your cybernetic nose from my private female parts; parts which are neither yours to do with, nor yours to cast aspersions at, nor yours to pass law upon, nor yours to tell me what to do with.
So the child that is growing inside has nothing to do with the father? The conception was brought on by divine intervention? You're dual-gendered? Reproduction through masturbation? If the legal system were as biased towards women regarding parental rights and access as they were towards men; The father would get a court order for you to go through with the pregnancy, waive custody, and pay child support for the next 18 years. Too bad fathers have no rights in the legal sytem, and are generally regarded as criminals in court. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/31/2005 8:13:21 AM | | garf honey... "bad fathers" shouldn't have any rights if they are truely bad fathers. as far as sari's comment goes... i agree wholeheartedly with her in the respect that i want the government to keep their laws off my body. that's not to say that i would run out and get pregnant so i could have an abortion... what it says is that my body is my business and what i do with it if i get pregant is a private choice i would make in my life as an adult. whether or not i get pregnant is also my choice. it would be a rediculous waste of time and money for courts to find the time and the resources to step in and order women to have children they don't want, make them "waive custody", AND "pay child support for the next 18 years." men need to accept that it is not their right, nor should it ever be, to force a woman to give birth or abort. women are the childbearing of the two, therefore it should be and is her choice and thank god she's protected under the law. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/31/2005 5:33:55 PM |
So the child that is growing inside has nothing to do with the father? The conception was brought on by divine intervention?
No, it wasn't divine intervention.
A male shoots his sperm into the female. This is a very very risky thing to do and I'm going to tell you why. Once you squirt your sperm inside a female, you cannot take it back. It becomes her property. You can wave it goodbye and call it "the donated sperm."
Guys would be smart to do one of two things: 1) Use condoms, or, 2) Make sure you have sex only with women who are going to give you a say in what happens with any potential zygote that develops from the donated sperm. If you don't, that's a shame because the uterus is not in your body. The sperm is not in your body. Both are elsewhere.
However (and here's where condoms are lifesavers), both science and law consider that any child born has 2 parents. In fact, science has proved that beyond a doubt, with DNA testing. Law considers that any child born, has the right to be supported by both of the parents he is related to. The law sides with the born child. Where the law identifies both parents, it demands that both parents support the child.
Notice, however, that I said born .
Here's the definition of birth:
birth ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bûûrth)n.
b. The emergence and separation of offspring from the body of the mother.
U.S. law does something else upon birth: It confers upon the born, a social security number and rights.
Usually, a man and a woman plan a child, they have discussed all aspects related to the child, etc. Any man that doesn't protect himself is just plain stupid. Sperm is not something that should be squirted around like trash. If a man doesn't use condoms, he has no right to whine afterwards when he either gets taken to court, or he has no knowledge of what happened to his sperm. | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 7/31/2005 10:47:56 PM | Just to clarify saritamiami...
My information is not republican propaganda. Heck I'm not even American. You obviously have a very strong view on killing. Maybe your right. Maybe all those extra babies being around would just create clutter. Why not dispose of them. Hey great Idea. Maybe I should concentrate on the homeless.. How bout we just put them to sleep? Clean up the streets? Heck they are only an eye sour for us anyway right? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 8/1/2005 6:29:20 AM | "Once you squirt your sperm inside a female, you cannot take it back. It becomes her property. You can wave it goodbye and call it "the donated sperm."
if that clapping smiley had legs it would be standing up at that one sari!!! | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1347 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 8/1/2005 12:33:19 PM | admitone....
As for the ridiculous notion that the guy should have used a condom. This leads me to believe that women aren't smart enough to take precautions without a man taking the initiative. Is this what you're saying? Sounds like it to me.
If a woman isn't smart enough to use precaution, she hasn't made a good decision so far, so obnviously she isn't capable of making another decision without screwing that up too. I guess according to this logic, women shouldn't be allowed to make the decision to have abortions then.
What kind of naive attempt at making a point is this, that you have made?
You're trying to say that the pregnancy is entirely the woman's fault, and until the child is born, the man has no say in the matter!
For all the men out there...when you get a woman pregnant, leave her for 9 months, until the child is born; It's not your responsibility!
Silly. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 1349 | |
| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 8/1/2005 3:43:39 PM | Yes, that would have been what I was referring to....
My information is not republican propaganda. Heck I'm not even American. You obviously have a very strong view on killing. Maybe your right. Maybe all those extra babies being around would just create clutter. Why not dispose of them. Hey great Idea. Maybe I should concentrate on the homeless.. How bout we just put them to sleep? Clean up the streets? Heck they are only an eye sour for us anyway right? | |
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| strong feelings about abortion? would you take this bet?
Posted: 8/1/2005 6:02:43 PM |
As for the ridiculous notion that the guy should have used a condom. This leads me to believe that women aren't smart enough to take precautions without a man taking the initiative. Is this what you're saying? Sounds like it to me.
I’m not entirely certain you even know what you’re talking about in the above quote.
Hun, you’d better run after that squirrel that stole your two beers. You need them more than she does. On the other hand, if they’re Budweisers, don’t bother. You Canadians are used to the strong stuff. Buds won’t make a dent. | |
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