| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 10:03:15 AM | Seriously! There are always conversations about this...A bitter reality is people are co-dependant in many ways...WE as people need people! Yet we lay out all the facts and still conitnue to have children grow to all this behaviour...Because we as people have done very little to teach our children!! They watch us in everything we do, the people we are with so on and so forth...Everything starts with being a child...that's been proven time and time again....Reality we have broken homes...children with only one parents...Too many divorces, seperations so on and so forth, yet no one seems to so enough to put a stop to this behaviour!! Not enough people have done anything to stop this....
we have to lead as powers of examples....I had to learn this the hard way! I've had a unsuccessful marriage and two children! Those poor children see my ex with more women I've had men...Its hard to change their minds towards anything else...Yet I hope to be a power of example for them....THey dont see me date men unless those men stay in my life...and nope none have so far....Introduced as friends and nothing more...If my children are around those men don't stay over.....I have to be that one for my kids and pray they grow to believe in what I as a person have become!! My neices and nephew's see that as well....And I do my part with my friendships to spread that as well.....I hope more take on these charactiersicts rather than be selfish and take things for themselves....Its a sad bitter reality.... | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 10:58:23 AM | To janet95....Are you for real or just pulling our leg here?
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Tools? Like jail time and anger management therapy?
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Did he not have a “chance” for self evaluation every time a relationship ended in his abuse, or are you his first?
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You cannot “care take” or “fix” a person into being emotionally healthy.
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Do you honestly believe this shyte?
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See my last question.
Please, Janet. Read “Codependent No More”. I certainly do not mean to be cruel, but I think it has your picture in it. You need survival skills....And fast! | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 11:11:36 AM | Grrrr! I guess you cannot copy and paste here and I hate quote feature here- So the above post makes no sense! I'll try this....
I also beleive this person hasnt been given the tools to change his abusive patterns.... He has not been given the chance to be in a relationship without the abuse !.... i feel love is helping that other person realize they can change there ways.....I think right now he is just testing me....for some love is an anger !
Very scary statements. Codependant red flags. Take care, Janet. | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 11:31:09 AM | SO, IF i choose to stay because i have a heart, and i beleive in love, it is because i feel love is helping that other person realize they can change there ways, and helping them work through the changes they so desperatly want to change but do not know how.
This is flawed logic for 2 reason.
1) You are becoming a martyre. It is not your job to solve his problems, even if you care about him. This is what co-dependancy is about. For every abusive relationship to exist, there has to be someone who accepts the abuse.
2) You do not have the training or abilities to save him. You are not a trained psychologist and his issue are a creation of his childhood and fears.
No matter how much time you invest, you will not change him. In fact, by staying you feed the abuse, you give it an outlet via your co-dependency. Better you tell him to get help and say goodbye. Maybe he'll appreciate the loss of you and get help but you can't make him change anymore than you make him seek professional help and it's PROFESSIONAL help he needs. | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 12:23:03 PM | Hello, Thankyou for for reply , By all means please speak to me , especially if your wisdom comes from experience . I came here for help, not to pull any ones leg. My heart is involved , and my life.
I am going to have to disagree with you on something if u do not mind.
I do beleive people could change from being emotionaly crippled _ to _ emotionally healthy
JAIL TIME , ANGER -,MANGMENT, THEREPY, YES i think theses are all helpful tools. Anything that could help a person to change his negative, repeated thinking, reactions, and behavior problems.
There are plenty of people who go to the therepists to become emotionally healthy .
or go to church , self help eduacation classes, ect. PEOPLE COULD LEARN, to change the way they react to every circumstance, situation, and person. (am i wrong ?)
Maybe the women in his past were not so emotional well themselves.. maybe he had nothing but drama. The thing i have in my mind , is that , -i truly beleive he is done with that lifestyle . (THEN AGAIN , THAT IS WHY I AM HERE,) iM NOT SURE
I dont want to caretake or fix this man . (We bonded emotional , mentally,and aspiritually in a way i never had before.) This is why i am fighting for this love !!
I will admit i am intense when it comes to love. i am still learning him, and he had just recently showed this side of himself .. SO I WILL SAY , (i am very hurt ), and i am worried my emotions may be clouding my logic.
thankyou , | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 12:31:53 PM | lol psychology gets me everytime... like freud and his wacko theories. I've been in a few abusive rels and it's not because I need to be needed and I didn't stay because they made me feel they needed me guys tried that one when I was younger but the pure fact I stayed was because I had fallen in love with each individual and wanted to believe so much that when they cried and were on their knees asking for forgiveness and how it was a mistake... that they meant it. I think that some ppl are really clever snaring genuine loving ppl who wear their hearts on their sleeves and these ppl enjoy manipulating/controlling others.
:) | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 12:41:44 PM | Janet- each persons situation is different. If you think that this person could be helped by going to therapy- then do it. I tried in vain to bet my ex into therapy- she wouldn't she didn't think she had a problem (typical) and that she thought I was the problem (also typical).
I bonded as well- I actually thought she was the one- but I am glad that she isn't. It was a tough lesson for me to learn- I had never been in a relationship like that before.
If you think your emotions are clouding you judgement- walk away for a few days and think...Its what you need to do.
I know its not easy to do- but if you don't the situation could only get worse.
People DO NOT CHANGE who they are fundementally. but they can get help in dealing with who they are and how to CONTROL the issues that bother them.
Months of therapy later- I am a better person cause of that relationship- I saw a side of me that I never knew existed. I came to accept that side of me and to be able to control it and learn what to see in others.
Please- take your time and get away for a few days- don't tell him where you are going- don't tell him what you are doing- just go. Let him know that you love him and that you need some time for yourself in order for the relationship to move forward. Give yourself the time to work it out in your head without anybody else around- no issues- no concerns just you- your emotions- your brain and yourself. OK ? | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 12:48:36 PM | smoochiegirl, real psychology isn't freudian theories, it's about understanding what creates abusive and codependenant relationship and knowing how to resolve the underlying issues.
The men in those situations probably don't mean to control or manipulate but they do out of their own fears. Emotionally healthy people don't need to control the other person but emotionally flawed people do because they don't believe they deserve love so they feel if the controlled person wasn't controlled they'd just leave. It's a defensive mechanism.
Janet95, my discussion with you is a prime example of what I'm talking about. No matter what I say your mind is made up and you disagree. We can do this dance forever but it serves no purpose. The same can be said of your guy. You can tell him whatever you think he needs to hear until your blue in the face but it means nothing. For the same reason you won't leave until you personally make the decision when you've had enough (no matter what anyone says) the same with your guy, it won't change until he decides it's time to change. | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 3:35:26 PM | Janet, you are young so I'm going to appeal to you to look closely at not only this relationship, but others in your life. I agree with the people above that there are red flags in your undying devotion to change this guy and yes, you do feel he needs you or you wouldn't be willing to expend the energy to "fix" him....an effort in vain.
For some reason, these needy people are very compelling to some while utterly disgusting to others. I understand what you're saying, I truly do. I've been there. Lots of great qualities, if only (whatever).....and I can change that. Maybe you can. Or maybe you'll spend a great deal of time trying to accomplish that and it will still end, which will leave you bitter and angry at him for not being responsive to your efforts.
Heck, maybe you'll just give up your whole life to do that! Co-dependent people almost enjoy that, the martyrdom. They get a great deal of satisfaction from being loyal and understanding and nurturing, even when not getting it back. Oddly, in every other facet of their life (jobs, home repairs - things they can really can fix and be proud of) they usually excel, making them seem very strong to others.
I'm not criticizing you, I'm empathizing and speaking from experience. Everything you have said screams co-dependent and I'm going to suggest that you read "Co-Dependent No More" too, and take a hard look at your life now, at 34, instead of later. Best of luck.  | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 8/23/2005 3:49:45 PM | | apple, I know about one abusive relationship personally. But I count myself lucky mostly in that regard. The one who was most difficult happened to be too close to me. It was a love/hate relationship, but I felt sorry for the woman. She died very bitter, yet I think she still loved me. It was a bittersweet long period of years. As far as trying to psychoanalyze such things, I don't much believe in that. Many things contribute to the development of a wretched mind. | |
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Doolly
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Joined: 7/17/2005
Msg: 36 | |
| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 9/1/2005 12:59:47 PM | JANET
You came looking for a man to share your life and now you're ready to settle for an immature, angry teenager...which is basicaly what the abuser is.
Do you really want to be taking care of a kid instead of having a caring SHARING relationship?
This is your one and only life. It's enterily up to you to choose how to use up your moments. | |
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| Absolutly correct!!
Posted: 9/1/2005 1:18:31 PM | I tend to watch and listen allot, I like a cohiesive relationship, I am non-violent but if honey needs to hit me she can...
However if I feel that I am being unfarely used or abused, I just leave everything exactly where it is and walk away...
Interpersonal relationships can be very dangerouse, so I would rather Loose everything, than risk a leagle fight, even if I'm right...
As a result of this, I have spent the bulk of my life alone and I tend only to date Gal's that live far from my home...*J* | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 12:55:14 AM | | In my humble opinion (don't you hate when people start with that opener) we attract people to ourselves based on, in part, what is going on with us. Being with and staying with someone because we think, they can change, works against you for several reasons. First, people will only change if they want too, and that is rare. Second, I would only want to be with someone who I liked exactly "as is". Third, it's insulting to think that someone is with you because they think you're a project to fix, or even need to be fixed. What you have to examine here is your need to be with this person. Abusive partners with a history of abuse, are not likely to change, even if you have the best sex, love each other to bits, find Jesus, whatever. Abuse happens, because the abusee is there to be abused. When a person latches onto another and stays despite the red flags, there is a real problem. Don't be addicted to someone who you think is a candidate for fixing. Pick up your self esteem and find a healthy person, mentally and physically, to have a relationship with. People who take in strays and people they can save are not being honest with themself, you are with that person because your role is martyr/saviour. And you know what happens to martyrs, right? You end up being resented and dumped. Why take on someone else's issues .... that is codependant behavior. Part of a cycle of an abusive codependant relationship is the honeymoon period. After something bad has happened the abuser becomes contrite and begs for forgiveness and for a short period, can be loving and wonderful. That's why people (typically women) stay, because they think despite the bad days, he loves me. Abusers sometimes feel bad for what they've done, but they will do it again. It is a pattern of behavior. Don't wait to have a broken arm, or a black eye.....to realize that you're in too deep. Self respect means you will not accept any bad behavior, ever. | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 12:56:53 AM | it is also called stripper syndrome from what I heard of it...
they say sometimes due to bad relationship with parent. Guys can
also have this... it is not a female thing
I am addressing OP | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:11:14 AM |
And what about women who abuse their men???? Should we "stone and burn" them too????
I am aware of the titel of the thread... but it goes both ways. I mean men must get tired of women being such martyrs... what about the men who are abused????
A voice of reason. diggy03, thank you. | |
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| Absolutly correct!!
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:23:35 AM |
knowing about psychology, you should know better that 90% of human's reactions and behaviours do begin in their childhood experiences.
So now I just need to figure out what happened to me... I was the only guy in grades 1, 2 & 3 that had girlfriends (the hot ones too!). | |
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tbar
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Joined: 10/12/2005
Msg: 43 | |
| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:28:23 AM | | Your friend is wrong there is no such thing as bad luck. A person can have bad in their life or have luck in their life separately or simultaneously but not as a unit. So it definitely sounds like she's having bad. I would suggest more common sense on her part, like getting a clue before a relationship starts. There must be signs? | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 1:42:43 AM | | If you're in a relationship with a true narcissist, such a person can and does appear perfectly fine to the outside world, helpful, charming, a good ole boy. The person who stays with a narcissist only realizes this when it's too late; emotional abuse starts out so subtley, you have no idea it's happening to you. Like, don't wear that dress it makes you look fat, or I don't want you talking to that friend because I think they are bad for you, or I don't want you to go out after work I want you home waiting for me, or only I know what you really need. People with low self esteem and codependant issues are good targets because they end up feeling that they've done something wrong, they question themself and believe what their abuser is saying. You would be surprised to find out how many people are involved with a narcissist, and don't even know it, it's scary. | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 4:45:18 AM | I have continuosly chosen the"wrong men"I can honestly say its a need thing your right on the money.It sucks I hate it.Not so much physical abusers.More like drug addicts.alcoholics,and the jobless.1-2 physical abusers.learning to love myself.Iwas once told by a counselor that it was my need to be in control of the relationship or man.BULLSHIT,never want the control.
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 4:58:47 AM | I don't think that's complete bull greeneyes.
I"m of a mind it's more the case in most of these bad relationships than a 'codependant' thing.
Every woman I know that has been in a bad relationship where "abuse" was involved are not meek woman, the opposite actually. But, they also had "helper syndrome". | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 5:00:03 AM | Why don't you share your theories with us Justaguy? Would be interesting from a guy's perspective... and Greeneyes, did you stop seeing the counsellor because you disagreed with what they said? People can only become more self aware, when they are willing to look at all sides of themself, even the ones they don't think they have, it's called your "shadow". How many friends do you have who say they aren't a certain way, but you know darn well they are? It's funny but true, we often deny the true nature of ourselves.
To confront a person with his own shadow
is to show him his own light.
--Carl G. Jung
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 5:56:25 AM | | It's so easy to see others issues than to see your own...looking in the mirror can be quite challenging. It's frustrating for me when I see it plain as day, but the only thing you can do is listen to people experiencing this issue and do what you can to help them help themselves. It's not only women, but men too, although I think women more often find themselves in this type of relationship. They will see it when they are ready to. | |
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| woman and abusive relationships / codependency
Posted: 10/30/2005 6:04:01 AM | It is interesting. If you take the time to really learn to recognize this type of abuse, and you set boundaries not to be broached by anyone, you'll find that you still meet these people and they will still pull the same type of behavior on you. Because you set your boundaries and stay firm to them, they won't stick around long. They're not getting what they need with those boundaries in place.
I realized in reading this that I am drawn to a certain type of co-dependency - leftover bit from "mom" I guess, but I realize also that I'm never successful in getting these relationships anywhere (I mean absolutely nowhere) because my boundaries are so set that the tricks to put me in that codependent place don't work.
Hah. There's something to make me feel pretty good about the relationships that never got off the ground. Now I just need to take away the element that draws me to these guys.....as it is certainly a waste of time. | |
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