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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/15/2007 2:12:30 PM | [1 Corinthians 7]
7:1 Now concerning the things whereof ye wrote unto me: [It is] good for a man not to touch a woman.
7:2 Nevertheless, [to avoid] fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/16/2007 12:31:54 PM | once again I have to ask, CJ4JC, are you still here? The original post was in August, I wonder what she finally decided?
This has to be one of the better, more mature postings I've read and I really appreciate that. It's amusing to read how the world has influenced our interpretations and knowledge of the Word. It seems so complicated and yet it distills down to such simplicity... and there in lies the challenge, me thinks. It's difficult for a genius mind like mine to fathom such simplicity, but once I get it, things become so much easier.
I too have struggled between understanding faith and religion, and I pray the Holy Spirit give me discernment, but in the end I've chosen to believe the spirit of the Word and the reasons why God gave us guidelines to live by. One of the greatest teaching tools to come along in decades has to be Logos, a program on CD/DVD which is historically rich, philosophically educational and far as I can see very non-denominational.
I would like to share one impression about sin and forgiveness which I think was mis-reflected in some comments about Christ dying to pay the ransom for our sins so it seems we can sin again and again and continue to be forgiven...
... after the crowd refused to stone the adultress, Christ asked her if anyone had cast a stone at her and she replied no, to which He said, neither do I condemn you. Then He said the most revealing of His instructions... at least to me... He said to her, rise up, go forth AND sin no more! How much simplier could He have put it to me... and yet in many ways how hard it is to let go of my human desires sometimes... and sin no more! This can apply to my base human nature propensity to violence, lying, cheating, stealing, slothfulness, sexuality (in all it's aberrant forms), and even self rightousness. Like a previous poster before said, knowing what I do know I will try my best to not do my worst.
I know I am way off the topic, but I like the way this forum was handled and wanted to add something good, hope I did. I'm still wondering where CJ4JC has got off to... heheheh.
Merry Christmas to all...  | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/17/2007 7:55:14 AM | | Lotus Flower -- thanks for the reference to 1 Cor 7. Clearly more on point than the Levitical reference on page 1, although as I read from chapter 5 to 7 I'm not sure if 'fornication' as used in this context refers to premarital sex to or some of the Corinthians really deviant behavior. As I write this I would be more inclined to lean toward your point of view. I do see where it could be taken otherwise but it doesn't hurt to be safe when it comes to important things like...oh, eternity. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/17/2007 2:33:50 PM | Being a BornAgain Christian let me say this: are you saved from your sins,have You really accepted Jesus into your heart as your personal Lord & Savior??
A lot of us here are Christians but your misconceptions about what's what in life need to be dealt with, if you're guilty of 1 sin,you're guilty of them all, does'nt matter which one now does it?
Robert  | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/17/2007 8:31:32 PM | | Throw religion aside and look at what really matters.It is about respecting each others wishes and feelings.Some consider sex before marriage ok others will perfer to wait till after marriage. Understand and listen to what your partner feels and needs, try to work out and meet each other half way,where you can.Belief and faith have similar feelings amung people, but no two are identical.If they we're we would all just be machines.Persoanlly, I can say for myself I have never taken to religion or believed in god.As far as beief and faith, I look to my own hands and my own mind.With those I can open any door I want to, or if all else fails make any door I want to. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/18/2007 11:17:57 PM | oops! heheheh Lotus, thanks I saw the month and missed the year... and imagine that huh? We're still plunking remarks into this thread... hmm, is this the Eternal thread, you think. Maybe we should pray over it, hmm a few bars of Koombaya, light a candle... still, I think the learned displayed intelligent, unemotional responses and that in itself is a breath of fresh air.
Merry Christmas to all...  | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/19/2007 8:26:55 PM | Welder Guy,
Yes, I put that I'm a Christian even though I'm not religious
Christianity is NOT a religion, so it should be changed to "belief/faith"
Yes I do believe it is. I've fallen in that area but I'm also forgiven.
Yes my life is surrendered to Christ, and no I'm not jumping the gun because i'm not on here to meet anybody.
Show me in the Bible where it says Christians aren't to "date"
I want biblical proof from you, and if you can't provide it, then i ask that you stop telling other Christians what we should and should not do. You're not my judge, God is.
" PRAISE GOD"!
I totally are in agreement with you Welder Guy, I actually loath "RELIGION", My Faith is Pentecostal, which means I believe in the spirit of Jesus, being a Christian........NOT old time Religion in chains and bondage, when Jesus died on the cross for us, his last request for us was to set us free of Religion, thus believeing in his spirit......purely believing and having faith in Jesus and having a relationship with him and trying to live your life by the word of god........Hey Jesus wants us to party and have fun just like anybody else, as long as we are in control and do things moderately......I dont mean drugs as such, I'm sure you get my drift.......WHY, do some people think Christians cant have fun or live a normal life, well I have news for you who think this way, we are HUMAN and we are given grace, our sins are forgiven because we except Jesus Christ as our Savior, he and only he knows are hearts, it is all so simple........DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WHEN YOU DIE?........I do! Many Blessings to you!  | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/20/2007 5:17:21 PM |
DO YOU KNOW WHERE YOU ARE GOING WHEN YOU DIE?
you're yelling at me so I take it i died! Oh oh, they just covered my face, now I'm being lifted up, being placed in a cold plastic bag and just got tossed in what sound like the back of an enclosure. We're going for a ride, interesting. I hear the bag unzip, brrr, it feels like a steel platform. Hey, they're snipping part of me away. Aw gees, another bag and ride... it's getting warm in here, it's getting hot actually, I feel like I'm burning up... I AM BURNING UP!
Well, I guess that's it... now where's that light everybody kept talking about? Sure is dark here... I thought I knew where I was going, I hope someone turns on the light soon! I wonder if they still use chariots... | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 12/21/2007 2:43:56 AM | (Do you believe that sex before marriage is a sin?)
While there are references as Lotus Flower pointed out, I still have no reason to believe its a sin. Only in the catholic church is sex prior to marriage a sin. but while I am reading that chapter, I will look over it carefully. Plus I know the social issues that were going on back in that day and hence why the bible says it so important to have a wife.
(If your life is surrendered to God, then shouldn't you not even be on this site because your "jumping the gun" and not waiting for Him to bring you the one He has planned for you?)
I used to think like that. I used to think that one day the woman would be presented to me and there would be no doubt. I call that blind faith because God cant do all the work for us. Its like not studying for a test and then asking God to give you the wisdom and knowledge to pass anyways. God will take two steps if you take one.
(Deliver me from temptation: Christians are not to date. They are to court. Meaning, the two are never in a room, in a car, or even sitting at a Starbucks without the company of fellow Christians around. So, if I meet a man for coffee....)
I dont know where in the bible thats in, but if it is I am not surprised at all. Dating is the most destructive and more unstable form of courtship that has the uncanny ability to make marriages that end in divorce. If you dont believe me than look at America today and how there are more divorced people than married couples now (although the divorce system is extremely liberal these days) and dating doesn't get the job done in forming life long partners. Courtship is a serious way to date and to get to know someone and really I think its for ppl who are really ready to find a life long partner, not just date around and then after 10 years decide to settle down.
Jesus is #1 in my life. Is He in yours?
He is, he saved my life and gave me a life far better than anything I could hope for which is why I know that he will come through on me in finding a wife, she is out there...its just a matter of time. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/18/2008 2:11:15 AM | Dear Opticalnoise:
You said: >>Don't take the Bible word-for-word. Just have faith, and do what you think is right.<<
Have faith in what? In yourself? In human wisdom? :-)
As an "in-church Lutheran", I was under the impression that we humans, when left on our own devices, always do what we THINK is right, but more often than not, do what is wrong or hurtful to others (or ourselves).
Didn't Hitler do what he thought was right? Didn't he have faith in himself and his destiny? How about Stalin or Sadam Hussein?
Born-again Christians believe that the Bible is the true, inerrant Word of God. It is a love letter from our Father in Heaven; a guide to living a good and wholesome life. We believe that it is no ordinary book, but a printed representation of the Mind of God. It goes beyond human understanding. We have faith in it (especially the teachings of Jesus) because we know from where it comes.
Yes, we must have faith, but whom we place that faith is the real question. Like Bob Dylan sang in his song: "You gotta serve somebody". Who are you gonna serve?
The Bible says we are not to continue in our sin, but to resist it. Jesus didn't die on the cross so we could continue to sin. He died so we could become "born again"...new creatures, with hearts and minds willing and able to live for Him and His Kingdom.
We are saved by Grace through Faith in Jesus Christ. The Faith we have turns us from sin and renews us. It opens us up to the Holy Spirit, which in turn, keeps us in Faith and away from sin.
Sure we mortal humans will slip from time to time. There is, however, a difference between slipping and embracing a sinful lifestyle. The fruits of genuine Faith do not include embracing sin. Only genuine Faith in the saving Grace of God can accept that saving Grace.
Reading the Bible daily and finding a nice Church family will really help strengthen ones Faith. There is also much Peace to be found in the body of Christ. I highly recommend it. :-)
God bless you. We are all works in progress...me too :-)
In His love,
Tadworth | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/18/2008 11:57:05 AM | | you have to read the bible, its the only way to get the real meaning of the Christian faith. The problem is with Christians these days is that most dont read the bible, and if they do, they dont read it front to back MORE THAN ONCE. Instead they rely on their pastors and parents to teach them the meaning of the bible or a verse. That was how Slavery was justified when people listened to their pastors instead of reading the bible itsself and realize that Jesus said that he came to save all races. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/19/2008 9:37:41 AM | Actually, if you look in the old testament law, any form of intercourse IS marriage. That's why Jesus made the comments he did about being married to the prostitutes if you did it with them. And the word "fornication" has been miss-used by priests and ministers so much that nobody these days is aware of it's true translation, which has little to do with "sex before marriage".
So, if you take the bible literally, there is no "sex before marriage", because the act itself IS the marriage.
It's not whether or not you do it "before" marriage, it's about the state of mind you are in when you do it.
Kind of makes you think twice about everybody you boinked, now doesn't it? | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/19/2008 11:43:35 PM | Valid question, valid reason to ponder. :)
Of course it also makes you wonder about multiple wives and conucbines, and just what are their modern analogues and the protocols surrounding them.
I've always thought that the major issues I've had with "litteral" translation of the Bible are the following:
1. When God spoke to us or the prophets, he was speaking as an adult would to a child in terms the child would understand, for concepts the child wouldn't and couldn't understand. As we've matured, so should this realization and interpretation.
2. The canonocal Bible was assembled by committee, far more was thrown away than kept due to politics. Even today biblical scholars agree that the fact Revelations made it into the Canon was odd - especially given the texts that didn't, and reenforced other stories in the set. (Even weirder - A Catholic Bible, and a Protestant Bible do not have the same content, let alone SeattleArtist's version, or some other "outskirt sects" Not busting on you, staement of fact)
3. The Bible states several times that the laws of the land you live in are just as important as God's law. Cool eh? Well, small problem, back then we were talkin about a small nomadic tribe of desert dwellers who's laws are COMPLETELY different than today! For good reason! Seriously, according to the old testament, I should have as many wives and concubines as I can support - but I'd get my arse thrown in jail for that nowadays wouldn't I?
Don't get me started on the fact that the "church" outlawed priests having wives and/or concubines about the same time as the paternity suits coming in outweighed the coin coming in, and that same spiel was relayed to the masses.
And you're right Nic, there's more than a woman I've taken to bed with the notion to make her my wife, unfortunately, they didn't have the same mind. In light of that tidbit, There's also been my fair share of visa versa. to this day I'd still welcome them into my home and do my level best to live up to the letter of that law - if it was still law, and ensure that all of us had a home worth coming back to. It just doesn't seem to be the way things are today. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/20/2008 10:52:55 AM | Vax, this is very much on the subject of being "confused"
My "outskirt" faith is actually eastern rite catholicism which is in communion with the roman catholic church, we are like Roman catholics but we maintain certain distinctions and traditions, like speaking arameic or accepting communion in the mouth instead of the hand. I also have to agree, the bible has been played around with too much. Copy errors, mistranslations etc. Now the Canon bible from my education is in place because after the death of Christ and the spread of the "good news" many sects and groups sprung up and had very twisted views, even new gospels were appearing! Just like the one written in Coptic that sprung up in Eygpt! So you had alot of heretics out there perverting the bible and the teachings of Christ, hence you needed that committee to keep the bible and the teachings of Christ only regulated to those who actually were in his ministry, the apostles. Makes sense?
Now for the laws of the land thing your talking about. The laws of the land take presidence over the law of the bible. Now Christians dont have to follow the old testament codes and covenants, Christ broke us free from it.
You wonder why the catholic church is dying and they are in need for priest? Simple, they cannot marry and have kids and even in the bible it never said Priest couldn't marry nor start families. My sect however allows priest to marry. In Lebanon 75% of all Priest are married and have families. Hence we never had problems like the Roman church does.
Now the Catholic and Protestant bible says alot for why there are so many different denominations. Catholics sects have a few interpretations and the Protestants have over 3,000! Hence we have Pentecostals, Mormons etc. It was Martin Luther who started this by saying that we should base our faith on the bible, however ppl got confused and some were smart and cherry picked a few verses out of the bible and then made their own faith.
Talk about confusion. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/21/2008 10:29:52 AM | You might find it interesting to note, what is in the bible, especially the earliest old testament parts, is a continuation of and sometimes even based upon, scripture from the Egyptian "Book of the Dead". Even Elohim, which is the name of "God" (usually replaced with the printed word "God" in most English language bibles) appears in the previous tome.
In fact, the similarities between the Book of the Dead and the Bible are staggering. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/24/2008 5:54:10 PM | sex before marraige... i still have yet to figure that one out, if its a sin or not... so say you never know if you'd be truely happy with a person untill you experience sex and yes before hand while others i have heard say it was the best descision that they ever made to wait.
and with the not dating, i feel thats just a bunch of bull. all courting is is another term for dating. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/24/2008 9:15:22 PM | | A whole bunch of that book is morality tales borrowed from other cultures and rewritten for the audience. It's a bit of an eye opener, but makes sense when you think about where they were in the trade routes of the region. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 2/27/2008 11:14:54 AM | Cleokatra wrote: "sex before marraige... i still have yet to figure that one out, if its a sin or not... "
Well, to reiterate what I posted before:
If you look in the old testament law, any form of intercourse IS marriage. That's why Jesus made the comments he did about being married to the prostitutes if you did it with them. So, if you take the bible literally, there is no "sex before marriage", because the act itself IS the marriage.
Also, when asking yourself if it is a sin or not, ask the further question: a sin to who? And furthermore, a sin to God? A sin to yourself? A sin to the other person? And when does it become a sin?
And, what is a SIN anyways?
Want to get a heads up on where a lot of this came from? Go Google video "zeitgeist". Or go to: http://zeitgeistmovie.com/
Or: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5547481422995115331
It covers a lot of ground concerning the emergence of religion in the world.
And then watch Esoteric-Agenda:
http://www.anomalytv.com/site/2008/02/11/esoteric-agenda/
Hopefully, this will liven up the discourse a little. | |
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| questions for Christians (that I have asked myself)
Posted: 3/10/2008 9:27:08 PM | Jesus is Lord. I want to be surrenderred to Him , the Great I Am. I'm talking about Jesus -is Lord, Not No one else, Try and Judge Me. Lol. God is Judge. Now I'm not mad at you for saying what you said. You got your mind in a vice in my oppinion. That's just my oppinion. Coffe is just that, it's coffee. | |
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