|
|
|
|
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:16:06 AM | | abortion is legalised murder and i will never agree that it is the right thing to do and the legal limit for abortion is truely a disgrace | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 11:30:43 AM | | Hate the sin, love the sinner. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:36:28 PM | Abortion is a right that all humans have.
If you're against it, then don't do it.
But if I was a woman, and you told me I had no right to have a child I didn't want removed from MY body before that child ruined MY future, just because you felt it wasn't right for *yourself*, I'd tell you where you could stick that "good book" of yours, and probably shove it there myself if I had the strength I have now...
Don't EVER force your restrictive dogmatic beliefs upon others. All it does is ruin the world for everybody else. We don't mind letting you languish in malcontent, but some of us actually enjoy free promiscuity and things like that (I sure don't, but there's no accounting for taste, is there?). Let us have our cake, and if you think that means we'll go to hell, then go ahead and dream about us burning. Just keep in mind that such thoughts are sinful, you hypocrites!
~ David
By the way, PullMyCrackers...
Actually, the Death Penalty is legalized murder. Duh. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:45:09 PM |
By the way, PullMyCrackers...
Huh?  | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 5:55:25 PM | | I'm having trouble coming up with a rationalization that justifies murder and makes it alright. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 6:49:23 PM | | All these men here debating what a woman can and cant do with her body...If that were the reverse, men would howl and scream against the "manhaters" here trying to control them!...Unbelievable | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/7/2008 7:02:16 PM | | Hi David! Very interesting perspective on your post. I agree that calling oneself "pro life" while supporting the death penalty is hypocritical and unacceptable. One can be against abortion, and support the death penalty--but that person should call himself "anti-abortion" instead of "pro-life" because it is hypocritical to support any form of murder while calling yourself something you are not. I respect Sen. Casey, D-Pennsylvania, because he is genuinely pro-life. He is against abortion AND the death penalty. While I have mixed feelings about abortion myself, I can respect a person who is opposed to BOTH the death penalty and abortion who considers himself "pro-life" because that's what "pro life" should be. ALL life, not just select lives!!!!! | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:10:58 AM | Repeating for 50 zillionth time, the death penalty has no bearing on this argument. It cannot be used because the premises are unequal. Same applies to what God did or did not do by way of judgement in the OT. You cannot compare retribution to action taken to acquire advantage. By this insane measure and if it were possible, we could also fine or imprison fetuses--and we should! ...because they did something terribly wrong, such as do what nature intended them to do as a direct result of sexual intercourse. Even some of our toughest customers agree that this a flawed comparison. This is a fallacy known as FALSE ANALOGY. Please give it a rest.
Another nonsense argument is "I do what I want to with my own body." Um... support please. This is known as IPSE DIXIT fallacy. It is not true because you say it is. You have no argument.
These are the key questions:
- Is abortion murder?
If so:
- Is murder in a zero-retribution case justified?
We must assume the former to answer the latter. If you deny the former, that is fine. Support your argument. If argue the latter under hypothetical assumption, that is also fine provided you understand that your conclusion is hypothetical. Support your argument. You don't get a hero cookie for having an opinion. You get a hero cookie for making sense to the opposing side.
No one ever answered my post, 668. It think it is a good place to start if you wish to defend abortion. You can begin by refuting the scientific evidence suggestive of sentience even in very early stages of pregnancy and then explain to us what justifies destroying that suggested sentience. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 6:10:15 AM |
Another nonsense argument is "I do what I want to with my own body."
This is not nonsensical when the body involved is one's own.
As Capegardengirl noted, there are an awful lot of men - who have never, can never, will never get pregnant - who have a lot to say about this topic, safe in the knowledge that it will never be their bodies on the line. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 7:36:02 AM | ...Shore66...It sure would make alot of sense to the men if women were dictating to them what to do with their bodies...lol...Its even more asinine when women still do the bulk of the labor of childcare in many families...Look at all those TV commercials on cleaning products...You never see a man holding a can of Lysol or Windex...lol....Especially those living in conservative areas of the country, women are still expected to do the bulk of the work regarding childcare and housework....Her career and college and personal life is sacrificed to care for children 24/7.....She is now expected to work AND care for kids 24/7 until she keels over exhausted...Oh, and still have time for sex whenever he wants it....The man keeps his job and and his social life and friends....He also gets a family because of her work....He "helps" her when he gets home from work and on weekends when he feels like it....If he chooses to do more, he is applauded as a wonderful dad for doing for what she does daily....lol
And alot of men here think they have the "right" to tell women what to do with their bodies....I dont think so!...Walk a mile in our shoes first | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 9:15:37 AM | | Pro life people should be against ALL forms of murder. The death penalty IS state sanctioned MURDER. Anyone who calls themselves pro life and supports the death penalty is a hypocrite. Nuff said. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 10:47:02 AM | Just as long as you three know you are completely ignoring the conventions of logic and are doing nothing to prove your point to anyone execpt for those who already agree with you--otherwise known as ranting. Walking a mile in in our shoes... appeal to emotion.
Just to include a point to ponder, and as I stated before, it is far more logical to assume the objective observer has a clearer view of the situation than the one faced with the dilema.
And yes, the "my body" argument is ipse dixim and unsupported because it completely and totally ignores the fetus. Proof by exclusion? I don't think so. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 11:07:35 AM |
Shore66...It sure would make alot of sense to the men if women were dictating to them what to do with their bodies...lol...Its even more asinine when women still do the bulk of the labor of childcare in many families...Look at all those TV commercials on cleaning products...You never see a man holding a can of Lysol or Windex...lol....Especially those living in conservative areas of the country, women are still expected to do the bulk of the work regarding childcare and housework
One of my friends does most of the house work, shopping, cooking cleaning, laundry, etc. His wife does cook once in a blue moon. One of my brother in law does most of the cooking when he gets home from work. He also works on the house most of the time. He also write articles or papers. He even does the dishes! If he had time he would probably do the laundry too. There's plenty of men I know do more than their share.
There is no reason to to have unwanted pregnancy. There is thing called birth control. Condoms, the pill, etc. There is just no excuse. Murdering a life to make your life eaiser and more rewarding is just simply wrong. Just like cloning is wrong but that is where we are heading these days. People obviously have little or no morals. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 11:27:19 AM | Listen, guys. And I mean guys. Have you ever had a child? It's like taking a crap that's over a foot in diameter and needing to get the whole thing out in one go. And you have to sit on it for nine months, possibly lose your JOB because of male-dominated businesses caring about the bottom line rather than giving their female workers maternity leave and insurance. You'll bleed profusely, and if you're lucky, you'll be able to use sedatives. If not, you're gonna instead feel like it's a bowling-ball-sized kidney stone coming out your urethra. For 6+ hours. And all the while you're stuck thinking that you can never just be yourself again. Now you're a parent and you need to take care of this thing forever. You're gonna treat the child like crap because you hate the thing and how it took your future away. But you need to feed it until it's an adult. Then you need to somehow find a way to get on with your life.
If you have never realized that this is what women face, then you have NO RIGHT to deny women any freedom with their bodily functions, let alone those involving the abortion of that terribly painful process. You wusses would do it in a heartbeat. Hell, most of you faint just watching it happen. Yeah, real tough.
Even my graphic explanation is nothing compared to reality, because I'm no woman, nor will I ever be one.
Speaking of women... You women who are against abortion (for what reasons, I simply don't want to know) are just sad shadows of the powerful, independent beings you should be, and I mean every offense that may cause to your quaint sensitivities, because it will get you to wake the hell up, if you're lucky.
~ David | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 11:31:52 AM | Ladies, Ladies, and David...
...Shore66...It sure would make alot of sense to the men if women were dictating to them what to do with their bodies...lol...
This is not nonsensical when the body involved is one's own.
As Capegardengirl noted, there are an awful lot of men - who have never, can never, will never get pregnant - who have a lot to say about this topic, safe in the knowledge that it will never be their bodies on the line.
Ummm....Aren't there TWO (2) BODIES involved in the Abortion act? Something you kinda left out of your enlightened statements of reason and/or logic? Wouldn't you say?
Here's a couple things to think about when you follow your line of reason...
#1).....
If Men are NOT supposed to "speak" on Abortion...then we need to OVERTURN Roe vs. Wade! NOW! After all, Roe vs. Wade was decided by 7 out of 9 Men!
If Men are NOT supposed to "speak" on Abortion…then ALL "Male" Pro-Choice attorneys need to Quit! NOW!
#2).....
As a man…a Human Being…I have been through the development process in the womb and also the birth process…In other words, I was a Fetus in the womb and I was Born in the natural due process of Human Pregnancy…
So, ladies, your argument that only "women" go through the birth process is one-sided and illogical. The Abortion debate is not only about the woman giving birth and/or aborting…it is about the woman AND the Human Being in the womb either being born or aborted.
So.....Let me ask you this....
A.) Prior to a woman giving Birth, do you think that there is nothing developing in her womb?
B.) Or is it just when a woman chooses Abortion, that nothing is developing in her womb?
C.) Or maybe you "actually" think that during a pregnancy, there is really nothing developing in her womb, but all of a sudden, a stork "dives" out of the sky, after 9 months of the woman thinking about a baby, and "Wam Bam, Thank You Sam"....that stork delivers a baby right down the chimney into the woman's waiting arms? (sarcastic)
Yeah....that's it!
Seriously.....You seem to “selectively” leave out the Human Being that is being aborted…Abortion is NOT a Gender issue, ladies. It's a Human Rights issue.
Please....Enough of the Pretending that "Reality" isn't really important.
 | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 12:56:16 PM | ."Theres plenty of men who do their share"......I was expecting this knee jerk comment..Of course plenty of men "help" with the housework and childcare and many do their share...Bravo to them, Im not talking about them....I never said NONE didnt...But its still women who do the BULK of that in traditional households, which is alot of families...Birth control isnt 100% fool proof...Women shouldnt be punished by being forced to bear a child they dont want after they use BC and it fails..Then you will be yelling and screaming because she neglects a child she never wanted in the first place!....Dont tell her to be a breeder either, and give it up for adoption..Will you be paying for her therapy bills and alcohol detox after dictating she follow your rules on that?.....Will you be paying her back pay she needs after she has to quit her job to care for the child?...Or drop out of school?....I thought not..You cant have it both ways..Its about avoiding that and increased premiums to your health insurance company for something totally preventable...Not just an "inconvenience" for the woman....What a disrespectful minimization here.....If anyones irrational and overly emotional, its the antiabortion arguments here...I dont know of any woman that treats an abortion lightly and Ive been working with women for over 20 years....People are really stupid if they think that and so ignorant and fearful about women.....Why on earth would you want a woman resentful and angry that shes pregnant to become a mother and care for a child?..HOW is that morally right for the child to live with a neglectful and absent parent?...The prolifers never address this and deal with the consequences of forcing their so called morals on women..Women are damned if they do and damned if they dont here...So get your nose out of our drawers...Its not any of your business...People have other morals too that are just as important as yours...If moms needs arent taken care of, how do you think she can take care of others' needs???..Anti abortion people NEVER answer this question....You cant scrape an empty barrel and expect to get something for nothing....Get out of denial and quit putting women in the self sacrificing sick martyr syndrome category...Now thats immoral and definitely anti family..
Kudos to brave men like David...Wish we could clone more of people like him...It is his kind that make the excellent parents | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 1:55:50 PM | I so love the fact that the pro-choicers who have happened to come along now are ignoring the statements they cannot refute. It always amounts to... no, no let's ignore all that and focus on the emotional and responsibility aspect of it. I need not acknowledge the other set of premises because... well, I just don't.
Will you be paying her back pay she needs after she has to quit her job to care for the child?...
Adoption.
why on earth would you want a woman resentful and angry that shes pregnant to become a mother and care for a child?..
Adoption.
If moms needs arent taken care of, how do you think she can take care of others' needs???..Anti abortion people NEVER answer this question....
I will answer it. A - D - O - P - T - I - O - N. We don't answer it for two reasons that clearly make the argument null:
- Most unintentional pregnancy cases are a result of negligence.
- There is another option: ADOPTION.
Hmm.. so what are we left with? The pain of pregnancy and labor, and the emotional difficulty of giving up a child. Let's review these.
- The pain of pregnancy and labor. A perfectly valid complaint. Pregnancy is very difficult. Even though proper medical care eliminates most of the pain of labor, I will conceed that there are limited cases in which the medication is not 100% effective. So that being said, with no complications, labor lasts how long? 24-36 hours maximum? How long does death last?
- The pain of giving up the child. I have actually heard this one: "I cannot carry a baby in my womb for nine months and then just arbitrarily hand it over to a stranger."
Hmm... Can you guess where I'm going with this? Is it logical to assume the child will be better off non-existent than with a stranger? If so, why don't you allow the child to make the choice of whether or not he/she is better off dead? Considering we are running now at about 6.6 billion people on the planet who do not presume death to be a better fate, is it not more suggestive that, no, the child is not better off dead?
Oh... but wait. That ignores the mother's worry. Can't ignore how hard it must be for her to always wonder. Abortion provides closure right? There is nothing else to wonder or worry or think about... other then your child being non-existent and/or dead by your hands, but at least it saves you the worry right? How much more selfish could that possibly be?
Please let me know if I am off the mark, because I am trying build a giant list of how hard pregnancy and adoption is for a woman so that I might adequately demonstrate that it doesn't outweigh existence. After all, we are talking MORTALITY here right?
This is all under the presumption that abortion is the termination of life inside the womb. If women take that seriously, if they truly have mixed feelings about it, if they truly have negative emotions concerning it, I will point your appeal to emotion right back at you by appealing to conscience and appealing to intuition. Do your emotions matter? If they do, listen to them. Recognise the sanctity of life through your emotions. Consider it intuition. If emotions don't matter, weigh the needs of the fetus against the needs of the woman logically on the moral scale. You will amazed at what you discover. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 2:30:59 PM | | all the talk of its my body well its not the womans body thats being murdered its the babys . i do wonder how many great futures, saints, saviours and legendary world changing people have ended up in the abortionists bucket! each little gift from god thrown aside its very sad | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 2:52:41 PM |
i do wonder how many great futures, saints, saviours and legendary world changing people have ended up in the abortionists bucket!
How optimistic. For every saint, there's an equal amount of Hitlers. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 4:40:01 PM | alligiant_one:
It's obvious to me that you have no idea what I meant, because your retort has to be the most embarrassingly hilarious load of nonsense I've ever read in my life.
altruist80:
As far as I can tell, you have no compassion for women. You speak of labor periods that last over a day, and use it as a point in your favor!? What unholy gall gives you the lack of good judgment to make such a statement? Shame on you.
I am amazed that there really are men as stupid as in the horror stories I keep reading about.
I'm sorry ladies. It pains me that you have to experience the terrific stupidity of men who don't know what they're talking about when they take away your rights to your own freedom of living.
~ David | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 4:54:32 PM | David,
It's obvious to me that you have no idea what I meant, because your retort has to be the most embarrassingly hilarious load of nonsense I've ever read in my life.
Thats it? Thats all you have for substantiating your position in debate? Refute the evidence...don't resort to personal attacks. Be a man.
And what's this all about?
I'm sorry ladies. It pains me that you have to experience the terrific stupidity of men who don't know what they're talking about when they take away your rights to your own freedom of living.
Do you think you're the spokesman for ALL men to the ladies. I don't think so...Apparently you haven't read prior posts regarding "taking choices away". Get a grip, sir....on reality.
| |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 4:57:45 PM |
As far as I can tell, you have no compassion for women. You speak of labor periods that last over a day, and use it as a point in your favor!? What unholy gall gives you the lack of good judgment to make such a statement? Shame on you.
I'm a father of two wonderful boys for one. Another thing that would give me the unholy gall is logic.
Compare death and temporary pain side by side and let me know your findings. If you had to endure labor in a modern medical environment or die, which would you choose?
After you do that, you may also consider that "choice" is a matter of taking "choice" from one and granting it to another. So better yet, would you kill someone to avoid labor in a modern medical environment?
Stop appealing to emotion and refute one of the 50 zillion arguments which have been presented.
Refute the evidence...don't resort to personal attacks. Be a man.
All hail to the chief. I couldn't have said it better myself. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:27:39 PM | IF N8420 had to support the kid "out of his own pocket", he would drag the woman to the clinic, at gunpoint if he has to.
IF "Right to lifers" had to support those had are unable to "Make a go of it" at their own expense, They would be the most PRO-abortion
Bible verses:
Anti-abortion & anti-Gay 60 (together)
Aid the needy: 914 Rick Warren (purpose driven life) | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:28:38 PM | altruist80,
You crack me up! ROFL 
You are good, sir....very good! Well said!
I so love the fact that the pro-choicers who have happened to come along now are ignoring the statements they cannot refute. It always amounts to... no, no let's ignore all that and focus on the emotional and responsibility aspect of it. I need not acknowledge the other set of premises because... well, I just don't.
May I elaborate on your above post? Maybe I'm old-fashion, but this is what my parents taught me about Responsibility. I will bring it full-circle into the Abortion Debate.
When 2 People, Engage in an “act” (sexual intercourse), that "COULD" produce a Human Being (pregnancy), they are Responsible for the “Outcome” of the “act”…even if they didn’t Intend to become pregnant…
Here's an Example...
If you're “playing catch” with your Child in your backyard and you took Precautions “NOT” to break your neighbors window by Installing a Fence so the ball wouldn't go onto your neighbor's property.....and if the baseball went over the fence and “broke” your neighbor's window...Would you be Responsible to replace the window?
Thus.....eventhough you didn't Intend to break the window...eventhough you took Precautions NOT to break the window...YOU ARE STILL RESPONSIBLE for the window, aren’t you?...
So, if 2 people, Engage in an "act" that COULD lead to a pregnancy...eventhough they didn't Intend to get pregnant OR they took Precautions NOT to get pregnant....THEY are still Responsible to follow through with the Pregnancy. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 7/8/2008 5:29:28 PM | IF N8420 had to support the kid "out of his own pocket", he would drag the woman to the clinic, at gunpoint if he has to.
IF "Right to lifers" had to support those had are unable to "Make a go of it" at their own expense, They would be the most PRO-abortion
Bible verses:
Anti-abortion & anti-Gay 60 (together)
Aid the needy: 914 Rick Warren (purpose driven life) | |
|
|
| Page 29 of 35
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 |
|
Home
login 
