|
|
|
|
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/29/2005 11:30:44 PM | | If Jesus didn't do away with the Law do you follow it? Do you perform the proper sacrifices? Do you avoid mixing fabrics? Do you refrain from pork products? | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/29/2005 11:34:04 PM | Jesus fulfilled the OT laws.Mening,he is the new sacrifice,He doesn't care what we wear(he loves each and every one of us), he made all things clean.
You should reread the NT. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/29/2005 11:46:34 PM |
What makes the fetus human instead of potentially human?
Time, which is irrelavent.
I don't believe in capitol punishment, regardless the crime. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/30/2005 2:58:59 AM | Kat,
I'm just curious to know what is better for your family.
I don't understand how killing a life can be better for a family.Do you know the future?Do you know wether or not that the child you killed could've become another Albert Einstien and brought all kinds of blessings to your family?Or why not give it up for adoption to someone who really appreciates life.There are thousands who would love to have a kid.
As far as a kid being killed because he might be abused or whatever.Why do these type of people have unprotected sex anyways.You obviously know that if you have sex you are subject to getting pregnant.So if you are messed up in the head u shouldn't be having kids.And again I must know how you know the future?
Jimmy,
can you use my real name only in private communicae please, I preffer some form of annonominity, and i know that my first name doesn't really give that away but it makes it more personal than I feel comfortable with in the forum And the answer to that question I am not prepared to fully answer on forum either, because I don't like being judged, in the thinking for yourself thread you quoted Anthony Guale: "To understand a man,you must know his memories......." and in that lies part of what answer I am prepared to give.
Also people that use abortion as a contraception is not what i call justifyable, but in long term relationships, people can become pregnant and have to choose between possible death to them and/or their unborn, or seeing it through to the end. On the adoption thing, I've already said, it is very difficult for a woman to go through nine months with a baby growing inside her and not grow some attachment, and to condemn someone for that, is to go against what you quote by anthrony guale IMO, as are the other opinions you expressed, also in reality, there are hundreds of kids, already alive, in orphanages across the world, aswell as it being fact that disabled/unhealthy babies are incredibly difficult to find adoptive parents for...
I don't claim to be able to tell the future, I do however have a bit of life experience and that makes it possible to have some idea of what possibilities are likely to arise. And sometimes too many negative possibilities are something a person chooses not to take onto their life, as they may already have a lot on their plate as it is.
Albert Einstein was a scientist, and all through history, christianity has condemned scientists as heretics and blassphemers, and they have paid dearly with their lives for what their knowledge and quests for knowledge proved in the real world. And from what i think I know about a. einstein, he is a is a good example, his mother was not in the best of health and it was thought he wouldn't be brn healthy either, if i remember correctly... However that was his mothers choice, also abortive techniques weren't safe, were black market and carried a much heavier price than seeing a pregnancy through to the end, unlike today.
If you want to know the answers from my personal stand point, send me a message off forum and i'll be happy to reply you off forum the answer in relation to how such a decision would have related to my own past, and I'm sure unless you truly can't see such a perspective as I had and in some ways still have, you will be able to see it as a justifyable reasoning.. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/30/2005 6:52:24 AM | | I don't see how anyone could want to kill something that is in fact alive. It feeds, learns and grows while inside a belly as long as that happens it is infact alive. I do feel that abortion is murder but people will do what they want and god will punish them or not accordingly no matter what we think about it. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/30/2005 2:10:01 PM | | God doesn't play dice-Albert Einstien | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/30/2005 2:35:44 PM |
Albert Einstein was a scientist, and all through history, christianity has condemned scientists as heretics and blassphemers
Well, not strictly true. Christianity was a huge booster of scientific research. Then some things got hard for some leaders to explain, so they clamped down on it. Now THAT has happened throughout history, with all creeds and cultures.
Abortion: What are you going to miss by aborting the fetus? I disagree that men will "not have to face that decision" because, in most cases, the baby was created by two concentual adults. The man is in that baby, too. So, it should be the couple's choice.
I have seen the result of someone who searched her soul to see whether or not to carry through - she did and the baby is just the most astounding gift to her and those around her. That is not just religion - that's life. I can't think of how many questions one would have for the rest of her (and his) life by aborting.
Since this is a religious forum, I have a question. If those who are dead to the Spirit abort, is that a death? Christians who abort are killing, but if one is dead to the Spirit and would bring forth a child that is dead to the Spirit, is it death? | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 1:27:20 AM |
Jesus fulfilled the OT laws.
Where does the OT Law require a human sacrifice? The OT Law also requires the sacrifice to be without blemish. Now after the beating he took he certainly had blemishes. Jesus failed to fulfill the requirements of a sacrifice according to the Law. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 1:29:19 AM | | N8420, if I cut myself and kill a bunch of cells have I comitted murder? So why is it murder to kill a bunch of undifferentiated cells? | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 1:47:46 AM |
God doesn't play dice-Albert Einstien
Albert Einstein was wrong. Quantum physics proves that probability is at the core of reality. Countless experiments prove this to be true. One, in fact, is an experiment described at the following page:
http://www.jracademy.com/~jtucek/science/exp.html | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 1:54:05 AM | Often misunderstood quote by the more uninformed of religious folk:
Einstein was referring to "Spinoza's god", ......... not the god of Abraham.
http://www.skeptic.com/archives50.html | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 2:04:52 AM | Where does the OT Law require a human sacrifice? The OT Law also requires the sacrifice to be without blemish. Now after the beating he took he certainly had blemishes. Jesus failed to fulfill the requirements of a sacrifice according to the Law
So according to your logic.Jesus was not a good sacrifice because he was cut up when he was sacrificed.So according to your logic no one in the Bible knows what they were doing.All sacrifices had to be cut up.All sacrifice was cut into different peices and seperated according to the laws.The OT also spoke of Jesus all through it.So I guess since the OT spoke of Jesus' coming and that he would be the perfect sacrifice we forget about all that huh.
Maybe you should learn to have communion with God and not with the Bible.If you worship the Bible then your worshiping the wrong thing.
God bless and take care,
Jimmy | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 4:03:13 PM | Obviously as part of the sacrificial process the sacrifice is going to get killed and cut up. However Jesus was already blemished before he was brought to be sacrificed. Had he been a lamb for a sacrifice he would fail to meet the requirements God set up.
Maybe you should learn to have communion with God and not with the Bible.
Do you now think the Bible is unimportant? | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 8/31/2005 4:46:34 PM |
The OT also spoke of Jesus all through it.So I guess since the OT spoke of Jesus' coming and that he would be the perfect sacrifice ....
I'm not as fimiliar with the bible as you, could someone tell me where in the old testament it refers specificaly to jesus? I asume there will be at least three instances (one at the begining, one in the midle, and one at the end) as it is "All through it"! | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 7:26:00 AM | SlapHappy;
I'd like for you to read from the Bible. Luke 1:26 - 55 Mary was both humbled at the prospect of bearing God's son yet quite happy about the situation. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 7:31:59 AM | | A perfect lamb brought forth for sacrifice had no blemishes before it was sacrificed. There were surely blemishes after the fact. So what's the point in saying Jesus had blemishes after He was whipped and beaten? Seems a bit redundant to me to bring that up. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 9:04:03 AM | Sorry for joining this discussion late into the game. I like your point BR. The human reproductive system is quite ineffective. From those who have made the point that life begins at conception...that an embryo is "human" from the moment of conception...I have to say that I disagree with that. There are many "conceptions", which do not even implant effectively into the womans uterus. These are later passed out of the body during a womans menstruation. This happens almost 50% of the time with "conception".
So...if a "human being" springs into existence the moment conception occurs...then hasn't God set up the human body to "murder" many many human beings? The same could be said with the high rate of miscarriage in the first three months of pregnancy.
Personally, I think most of the extreme "abortion is always murder" pro-life rhetoric has much more to do with politics and wanting to feel righteous than with any kind of reality or compassion.
If the pro-lifers are so against abortion, why are so many opposed to effective sex education ain schools....? Why arent they pushing for easy access to birth control for all, regardless of ability to pay...including tubal ligations for those that want one? How about decent financial support for single parents? These are all things which seem like they would go much further towards preventing abortion than brandishing a bucket of brimstone and heaping shame on women who are often already in tremendously difficult circumstances. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 9:42:50 AM | for the believer if it is not of faith it is sin... i'm not a woman so i really can't say for sure but i would think that having a fetus removed from my body would be a pretty major event in my life. And i would worry that God doesn't want me to do it.
abortion and homosexuality are such hot issues, but for me i think that this is a free country and that Christian influence is preferable to assumed authority. If one is not of faith it is a matter for their own conscience and how can i see clearly to remove the speck from a persons eye if I have my own opinions and judgements clouding my vision.
However, do i believe abortion is a sin? Yes. For a person of the christian faith. For a person that is not of faith if they are going against their conscience... well, I guess that's called freedom to some, but every time i've ever went against my own conscience i have felt enslaved by a wrong choice. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 1:48:05 PM | | I belive that abortion is a sin if you are christian, but I also belive that not everyone is christian. No one else has the right to chose what a woman dose with her body but her, and make no mistake it is her body. In an ideal world, women would be able to get rid of a fetus without killing it and it could be raised in an artificial womb then adopted by a couple that would love it, but this is not an ideal world and people face difficult choises sometimes. It can sometimes be dangerous for a woans health to give birth, or sometimes the child has a congenital disease that means it won't live more than a year or so and will be in constant pain and suffering. there are situations where abortion is the beter option because the risk to life or pain that be cause by bearing the child full term is just to great. It is something though, that only the mother has the right to chose. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 10:23:25 PM | BR, I appreciate the differentiation that you and statueman both make between what is "sin" for a Christian, and how it is that those who are not Christian can be expected to conduct themselves. For certain, I would agree that those who are not subscribers to Christian beliefs ought not be compelled by law to abide by standards which Christians set for themselves. Cultural influence is indeed more valuable than legislative action, particularly in this case.
However, I do not think that all of Christianity is in consensus on the issue of abortion. Certainly there is a large and vocal group who are, and so the position of all Christians tends to be automatically assumed. The United Church, Episcopalians, many Anglicans and Lutherans as well as some others, have a much more open stance on abortion than calling it always a sin.
Even the Catholic church historically has not always believed that abortion at every stage of the pregnancy was murder. It used to be in the Catholic church that a woman who ended her pregnancy before "quickening" (when the baby's movements could be felt) was asked to do a harsher penance for the sin of sexual immorality (if she had committed such) than for the ending of the pregnancy. Not sure which Pope it was that changed that, and it was way back, but still, the fact remains.
Given the lack of consensus on the issue within the Christian faith, and the fact that there is no specific instruction on abortion contained in the Bible, I tend to think that within Christianity we would all do well to extend each other tons of love and grace on the issue. More achieved by working together to help those that need it than slicing one another to bits with our own individual "biblical swords"
 | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/23/2006 11:11:50 PM | [quote="laelgreen"]Given the lack of consensus on the issue within the Christian faith, and the fact that there is no specific instruction on abortion contained in the Bible, I tend to think that within Christianity we would all do well to extend each other tons of love and grace on the issue. More achieved by working together to help those that need it than slicing one another to bits with our own individual "biblical swords"
I believe you have concisely intimated the actions we should all take regarding this matter; while I believe that abortion is a sin no matter the circumstance, I also believe that someone else's sin is a matter between god and themselves- I am not part of that equation, therefore my opinion on the matter is not warranted/justified.
"Let ye who is without sin cast the first stone" and "judge not, lest ye be judged" are suggestions that modern-day christians seem to forget...
If we were judged upon acts, I would probably be the last person on earth who is deserving of salvation, yet because of Gods infinite grace and kindness, upon passing from this world, I know that he will welcome me with open arms. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 3/24/2006 3:38:01 AM | Sensitive topic
I think the woman is more important , call me Selfish but if I was married or loved anybody to have kids with then I 'd love her to bits and I would notg want any harm to come to her
and I know most disagree but real love is not easy to find , why would you let her go
As for elective abortions due to ( I do not want kid etc) certain conditions I can understand but overall and above all A Woman is an individual with a mind a choice and I assume everyone agrees not an incubator , so bottom line it is up to the woman | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 4/3/2006 8:48:46 AM | | God gave all people the right to choose. Bottom line any woman has the right to choose whther or not she wants to have an abortion many people may not agree with it but then that is their choice. REgardless if any religion thinks it to be a sin, God gave all people the right to chose sin or not so he will sort them out as they come and not matter what people will say it is not up to them but just the woman in her situation may it be health related or just to immature or misguided it is her choice given to her by God. Leave it to Him to punish or not. The debate going on by us has nothing to do with what He will do. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 4/3/2006 1:43:50 PM | | I willl always disagree with abortion , and most of the time, it is not at all called for if ever. There may be some understandable reasons why women do that like if they got pragnant against their will etc, but all the other 99.9% percent of the time it should NEVER be allowed. | |
|
| Abortion
Posted: 4/4/2006 12:07:52 AM | Abortion can only be technically classed as murder if you can define when a fetus becomes sentient. Murder is the unlawful killing of one sentient bieng by another. So until something is sentient, you are not committing murder, otherwise EVERYONE would be going to hell for MURDURING the bacteria on their hands every time they washed.
I believe sentient potential is the main thing. Bacteria never form sentient beings as far as we know, so there is no murder involved.
also it is not clear whether sperm or egg are actually alive. One of the classifications of a life form is something that is capable of self replicating which sperm and egg do not do.
Again, a sperm and an egg can never form a sentient being on their own so no murder is possible.
uh huh and do you Nnumbers honestly believe any woman that decides to go through with the trauma of an abortive procedure is really doing that out of malice??? you really astound me.
Malice is not required for murder to occur. There have been plenty of sociopath killers.
Now let me reiterate. If you abort a fetus, it can only be technically classed as murder if that collection of cells has developed to a stage where it has independent thoughts and is self aware. Otherwise it is just a collection of cells with the potential to become human, just like a collection of skin cells that are washed of with a scab.
sen·tient [sénsh?nt, sénshee ?nt]adj
1. conscious: capable of feeling and perception
a sentient being
2. responding with feeling: capable of responding emotionally rather than intellectually
Encarta ® World English Dictionary © & (P) 1998-2004 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.
By your definition killing an unconscious person would not be murder. Killing somebody in their sleep would be justifiable as well. People have a right to life even when they are not self-aware.
I find it interesting that all these people who carry on about what the Bible says don't look to the Jewish tradition on abortion. The 10 commandments were given to the Jews, and Jewish law actually requires abortion when the life of the mother is threatened.
and Christianity like many faiths have Judaic origins :D yeah interesting
Personally I think that an abortion to save the mothers life may be acceptable.
I find it completely vulgar how some people would consider me to be a murderer if for the better of my family and myself were to abort set of cell divisions from becoming a sentient!
You mean you would deny another human being the chance to live because of your own selfish reasons i.e. inconvenience. 
and they are all men, who will never have in their life time to ever ponder such a decision ever.
LOL!  Check out the following link.
http://www.lifesite.net/ldn/2005/apr/05042903.html
There are plenty of pro-life women.  They don’t see it as a violation of their rights to control their body, why do you?
Pro Life for who exactly> an unborn who will in some cases end up being abused the majority of their childhood because they are unwanted or the people already existing
So I guess we should go around and exterminate all the unwanted people? What gives a mother to be the right to become a fortune teller?
Why do people mix the OT with Christians. Being Christian means being Christ-like. Which means we follow the NT and not the OT. Jesus fulfilled the OT laws. Meaning, he is the new sacrifice, He doesn't care what we wear(he loves each and every one of us), he made all things clean.
Actually, Jesus tells us that if we believe him we should also believe Moses and the profits.
I don't see how anyone could want to kill something that is in fact alive. It feeds, learns and grows while inside a belly as long as that happens it is in fact alive. I do feel that abortion is murder but people will do what they want and god will punish them or not accordingly no matter what we think about it.
Well said. In the end we can only control what we do and not others. God works it all out in the end. 
Where does the OT Law require a human sacrifice? The OT Law also requires the sacrifice to be without blemish. Now after the beating he took he certainly had blemishes. Jesus failed to fulfill the requirements of a sacrifice according to the Law.
Indeed, where does the scripture require human sacrifice? Not to my knowledge. Jesus came to fulfill the convenient. Aside from his crucifixion I don’t believe human sacrifice is required.
Albert Einstein was wrong. Quantum physics proves that probability is at the core of reality.
Actually, Quantum Mechanics is showing that our consciousness directly affects the physical world around us. 
From those who have made the point that life begins at conception...that an embryo is "human" from the moment of conception...I have to say that I disagree with that. There are many "conceptions", which do not even implant effectively into the womans uterus. These are later passed out of the body during a womans menstruation. This happens almost 50% of the time with "conception".
If a death occurs naturally than it is not murder.
I believe that abortion is a sin if you are Christian, but I also believe that not everyone is Christian.
A sin is basically anything that is against God’s will. I believe that murder is a universal sin. If God doesn’t want a Christian to abort, he also doesn’t want somebody else to either. Just my opinion.
No one else has the right to chose what a woman dose with her body but her, and make no mistake it is her body
No one else has the right to chose what an unborn baby dose with her body but her, and make no mistake it is her body.  | |
|
|
| Page 4 of 35
|
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 |
|
Home
login 
