| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 6:43:36 PM | | That's true. However, it does not mean that it is wise to jump into a relationship with an alcoholic to try to save or help them. Unfortunately, one of the symptoms of this particular disease is the desire NOT to recover. And by tolerating the behaviour that frequently comes with the illness, a person only prevents the alcoholic from reaching the point of wanting to get better. Codependency is also a disease that is capable of taking a person to the grave. If you discover early on that you are dating a person with this disease, it is better not to get involved to the point where your life is also destroyed. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 6:49:36 PM | I'm with xpxpk on this one.
Give thanks you are not married to an acting out alcoholic.
Count it as a lesson learned.
The only person who can change an acting out alcoholic is themselves with the help of a Higher Power, the fellowship of Alcoholics Anonymous.
Even Alanon believes in being happy and content without the person who is drinking - to me that would be mighty difficult and I am not into martyrdom.
RUN! As fast as you can and don't look back. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 6:50:16 PM | IF you truly love him...the first thing you should do is look into alanon. Get advice from people who understand the things that you go through instead of people on a thread who mostly don't understand. (no disrepsect intented). Only an alcoholic can understand an alcoholic and only the partner of an alcoholic can understand the partner. From there you can decide if it is worth continuing or not.
Pesonally, You might want to look at yourself first to see what might have drawn you to him in the first place. I mean drinking is not usually the problem....its the thinking. And his personality attracted you...
Be Good | |
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xpxpk
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Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 54 | |
| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 7:45:33 PM | dddynamic:
I disagree when you say that people on this thread don't understand. Mosts of the replies are from people who speak from their own experience, either as an alcoholic or as the partner of an alcoholic.
Alanon exists for a reason and its purpose is honorable. There are surprising similarities in all alcoholic relationships and insight can be gained through others in the same circumstance.
The original post referred to "dating" an alcoholic. I see no future in dating an alcoholic. The best way for the sober partner to objectively assess her role in the relationship is to first remove herself from it. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 8:04:55 PM | | Ever thought of going with him to an AA meeting? Perhaps some moral support would get him motivated? You can go to an open meeting even if your not an alcoholic. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 8:07:55 PM | | I agree. It's not wise to even consider a relationship with an addict as they already have a bigger relationship with their addictions than they will with you. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 8:12:11 PM | | I disagree. You don't really know someone until you live with them. When you first meet and prior to living together, you can be misled easily. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 8:15:23 PM | It is sad to see so many people misinformed about this disease.
yes..you are correct. and this misinformation started and had continued to be perptrated
by..who else but....aa. they use this 'disease' concept just to get coddibility and not accountability.
here are some unimpeachable facts which aa cannot refute:
if its a disease....then how come...
1. one has to be a certain age to 'legally' get this disease?
2. it's the only disease thats bottled and sold thru a licensed vendor or state run dispensary.
3. its the only disease you can be arrested for driving a vehicle at a certain level of having it...
4. it's the only disease that produces revenue for the government.
5. it's the only disease that is habit forming and provokes crime.
6. it's the only disease that's spread thru advertising.
7. it's the only disease you can be tossed in jail for...and even be excuted for it.
8. it's the only disease that brings death on the highways.
9. it's the only disease not recognized by the center for disease control.
10. if one believes in what the bible has to say... it's the only disease that the bible uses as a role model of how NOT to be, and it's the only disease that prevents one from getting into heaven. look up 'drink', 'wine', and 'drunkards' in the bible and you will see some stuff that one will NEVER see written in any aa stuff.
and finally..with aa promoting this disease garbage...how come they cant put their money where there mouth is when i asked them to give me titles of research that was
done definitively proving alcoholism is a disease? simple answer...there isnt any!!!!
what really amazes me about this 'disease'....it's the only one that it is a disease of CHOICE!...
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 8:39:42 PM | I think the question is not whether the alcoholic loves booze more than he loves you. I think that is BS and an ignorant statement in my view. Addiction isn't based in any kind of love. It is anti-love. All addiction is anti-love. The world does NOT love alcoholics, smokers, sex addicts, or druggies...the world doesn't give a squat that these things happen to them or that they suffer in a lonely place with their addiction. The world says "walk away and let the addict find their pit".
The lack of love they find because of their addiction usually drives them deeper into it. It is sad but true for so many. They need to know that there is help available for them.
Fortunately, for the addicts of this world, there is hope and help. There are organizations (AA, Al Anon (for those addicted to the alcoholic and changing them) Coda (for the ones who were raised in addicted families or not), NA and many other support groups.
The alcoholic needs intervention. Not to be walked away from. Will you get your needs met with him? No. He is sick and needs to get well. He needs AA or a detoxification program to get truly "sober" again.
Alcoholics aren't bad people trying to get good, they are sick people needing to get well. Alcoholism isn't a moral issue as I know many very moral people who are addicted to alcohol. Nor are alcoholics incapable of loving others as I have seen them demonstrate far greater displays of true love for their fellows than many on the streets who claim they have no addictions.
However, all of the pitfalls that go with this addiction will directly affect YOU if you are in a relationship and share the alcoholics life. That is just how it is. It is a very big part of them and who they have become. It is your choice whether you can handle what that involved. It doesn't make you wrong or weak for loving him. It makes you a loving person who has compassion and cares.
For the sake of your own well being I would suggest you check out an Al Anon meeting and see if that helps you and NO they will not tell you to leave him. NO ONE is supposed to tell you that in any meeting, they are crossing a line there and if they do they are controlling and don't understand the program.
Yes, ending a romantic relationship where so much is at stake may be the best course of action for you to protect yourself but that is YOUR decision to make and no one else's. There are people out there who CAN love an alcoholic although it is very difficult and extremely painful at times.
It's really a balancing act between what kind of love you think the alcoholic needs now. Remember that the Al Anon is equally sick in that they are addicted to living for the alcoholic and are obsessed with changing the alcoholic. You are not responsible for his drinking and you are not responsible to fix what his drinking creates. That does not mean you stop loving him...it just means you start loving yourself as well.
That may involve some time to get the information you need to make a wise decision of whether you feel strong enough to undertake such a relationship.
The sad part is, if this was workaholism ( a very real and serious addiction to the family and relationships) few would be putting him down at all. In fact many are commended for it. How respectable is that? | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 9:34:21 PM | ^^^^^Yeah what she said.......God Bless her pea pickin heart.   | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/16/2005 11:52:47 PM | I think the question is not whether the alcoholic loves booze more than he loves you. I think that is BS and an ignorant statement in my view. Addiction isn't based in any kind of love. It is anti-love.
I understand the concept behind what you are saying on an intellectual level and it is clear that you are a very compassionate person, which I respect. But when my marriage ended after 10 years because of problems based on the alcoholism for which my husband refused treatment -- it felt like he loved the bottle more. I think it would have been easier if he left for another woman. At least I could have understood that.
I think you did a great job of summarizing the issues. | |
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xpxpk
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Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 62 | |
| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 4:26:49 AM | Blast, it's not a BS and ignorant statement.
It may not be love for alcohol, but it's an overpowering desire to drink above all else, regardless of the consequences.
The only thing that will create the will to quit is acknowledgement of the consequences of continued drinking, which can include poor health, loss of self worth, loss of career, and the destruction of important relationships. The world says "walk away and let the addict find their pit" for good reason. If the alcoholic decides to quit, he must do it on his own, and it is a decision based on the damage that he has created through drinking.
Intervention may be required but it must be the alcoholic's decision. A de-tox centre will only take those who walk through the door and say, "I need help". Often, intervention occurs when a loved one threatens to leave unless the drinker receives treatment. It is a threat that must be carried out. If the alcoholic decides to continue drinking, the sober partner has no choice but to end the relationship. Otherwise, it shows support for the habit.
It is only after the alcoholic has surrendered himself to treatment, and demonstrated a true commitment to remaining sober, that the love and support of a loved one is of value. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 4:33:40 AM |
Remember that the Al Anon is equally sick in that they are addicted to living for the alcoholic and are obsessed with changing the alcoholic
egh? al anon is for anyone who knows an alcoholic
Kids go to Al Anon sometimes if a parent is an alcoholic. The children aren't obsessed with changing the alcoholic nor are they addidted to living with them. | |
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xpxpk
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Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 64 | |
| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 5:09:17 AM | Blast, I don't know what line is being crossed if a suggestion is made at an Alanon meeting to end a relationship. Speaking from my own experience, I am glad that someone had the courage to cross that line. I received that advice at an Alanon meeting and also from a professional addictions counsellor.
There is no shame and dishonor in walking away. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 6:52:34 AM | blu, I think the kids do become obsessed with changing the alcoholic, or at least the family dynamic. Sadly, they also blame themselves for the failings of their parent. That's one reason so many children of alcoholics find themselves fighting the addiction, either in themselves or in a significant other. It's a sad thing for kids to grow up in a home like that.
And, a little off topic, but I have to add that I have seem some studies claiming to show that divorce is bad for children. Just want to point out to anyone who is staying in a bad relationship for the sake of the children that these studies never compare children brought up in an abusive/addictive marriage with children of divorce. They compare studies of children in marriages that stay together vs. marriages that split. Probably the marriages that stay together are healthier on average and that could be the reason the children do better. For these studies to have any value, they need a different control group-marriages that stay together in spite of extreme difficulties. IMHO. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 7:20:49 AM | | I keep trying to walk away from this unhealthy realtionship as well. I never knew the characteristics of an alcoholic. I am finally waking up that he is destroying my life... my career, my friends, whats important to me... I never knew a better liar, cheat, and then always sorry. Everything becomes my fault and I don't do anything anymore but go to work and come home. I have withdrawn from everything and everyone because of this guy. Why is it so hard to just walk away. I have never known someone who could be the funniest person you ever met and the most cruel, verbally abusive, physically abusive, selfish person. I keep going back because I think he is going to change for someone else. I want to believe so bad what you said. Is that people DONT change. It would be so much easier to walk away if I knew he wasn't going to change for someone else. I have been hiding this pain for a long time and just needed to say that. My friends say that I am beautiful and that I could have anyone but why can't I just walk away? What has this guy done to me? He has nothing to offer anyone and I honestly don't think he ever will. It has been very refreshing to read all the postings. This is the first time I have looked for some support and advice. But, he is destroying me. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 8:14:56 AM |
I have tried for 2 years just to walk away. I have tried dating other men, I have tried to move on with my life. I keep going back to him. He is wonderful when he is sober....I just can't count on that. He is Dr. Jekyl and Mr.Hyde personified.
What a perfect way to describe my last relationship. ANd don't forget the bad luck that runined everything he tried, so there was never any money. During the three years we were together, it was the most intense relationship I ever had.
The the days and nights of intense aplogies after that and making up were SO GOOD!! Ecstasy !! Then the pain again, just when I thought it was gone for good....
When he was sober, he was my angel of gold. When he was bad, I tuned him out and waited for the good to resurface. IT's called denial.
Still, I hung on until he moved in with another woman!!
What helps me now is talking to another woman who had the same problems, and has gotten out of the situatin. One on one, day after day, hour after hour, with someone who knows the problems and can point out when I am drinking from the river of delnial again, before I fall in and drown again. | |
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daking
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Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 68 | |
| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 8:27:34 AM | 1)has to be a certain age? I have seen chemical dep. people as young as 10!!
2) Hydrocodone the most widely abused prescription drug in the world is available through many doctors nationwide.
3) You may be arrested for driving a vehicle impaired on anything whether it be alcohol or any other mind altering substance
4) Nicotine the second most abused drug in the world provides more revenue than alcohol for the Government
5) Sexual addiction is a disease that definitely promotes crime
6) If you don't think other diseases are promoted with advertising you have never seen a Victorias secret commercial.
7) Cleptomaniacs are definitely jailed regularly for there disease (with a pocket full of money often)
8) Heart Disease regularly kills people on the highways as i know i was a wrecker company owner for 10 years.
9) The center for disease control is a government agency. Explain this to me cigarettes kill 350,000 americans each year and the Government definitely profited from the lawsuits against the cigarrete manufacturers, yet they are still legal to purchase.
10) Obviously you have never heard of a P.E.T. scan have you? check it out you just might be amazed in what you find out about the disease .I know of so many cases in which REAL people have regained there sanity from the disease, with the help of GOD as they understand him. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 8:28:34 AM |
What helps me now is talking to another woman who had the same problems, and has gotten out of the situatin. One on one, day after day, hour after hour, with someone who knows the problems and can point out when I am drinking from the river of delnial again, before I fall in and drown again.
A friend like that is worth their weight in gold many times over! | |
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xpxpk
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Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 70 | |
| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 9:01:51 AM | Cabo, what you are experiencing is common in every alcoholic relationship. We know exactly what you are going through. Emotionally, a drinker can provide the highest of highs and the lowest of lows. He will not change for you and he will not change for anyone else. He can only change for himself.
Quitting an alcoholic relationship can be as difficult as it is for an alcoholic to quit drinking. A drinker, in order to quit, must throw the bottle in the garbage can and do whatever it takes to never go near it again. If you decide to walk away, you must throw the relationship in the garbage can and never go back.
You will need support. It sounds like you have friends that will help. You will need them. You may wish to discuss it with them before you make your exit. In your darkest and loneliest moment, when all you want to do is phone your former partner, you want to be able to call upon a friend instead.
I wish you the best. For you. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 9:38:18 AM | | Can I add a note of caution? It's not just about throwing the relationship in the trash can if that's the route that you decide to take. I used to be a bartender, so I had the benefit of learning from other people's hard times. Somebody else said earlier that there was something that attracted you to this person. It's important to take the time to process that, figure it out, and heal. I am so sad when I see people rush from the arms of 1 alcoholic, straight into the arms of another . . .same problem, just a different face. Take care of yourself and take your time. | |
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xpxpk
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Joined: 7/4/2005
Msg: 72 | |
| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/17/2005 9:54:24 AM | | Of course. As sober partners, we have our own dependency which is, in a sense, an addiction to the relationship. It can be very difficult to come to terms with that while the relationship still exists. The alcoholic becomes the distraction and we don't take the time to look within. That is our struggle and it's not as easy one. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/18/2005 8:24:59 PM | check out an Al Anon meeting and see if that helps you and NO they will not tell you to leave him. NO ONE is supposed to tell you that in any meeting, they are crossing a line there and if they do they are controlling and don't understand the program.
thank you for the is a perfect example (of many) why al anon is so perverted. to encourage someone to stay in a relationship that is an incomprehensible living hell....is unconscionable, and beyond disgusting.
yep..ala non'er..stay with the jerk/jerkette and just continue to take the verbal, mental, and emotional abuse. stay and continue to let this scumbag beat the crap outta you when he wants to..and for no reason. for the benefit of your kids...stay so they can grow up unstable, confused, and scared to death. and let the worthless piece of puke beat the kids too. you dont really want to leave now do you?? here...let us tell you how we can make your living hell a little more comfortable...by moving in some furniture.....
it's CRIMINAL.....
That does not mean you stop loving him...it just means you start loving yourself as well.
sure...tell this to women who have been severely beaten, trashed, have received broken bones, raped as a little girl by an alcoholic family slimeball....
one does not have to love and should not love evil!!! GOT IT???!!!!
daking...your next... | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/18/2005 8:34:59 PM | If he is not serious about going to AA then there is nothing you can do. He hast to wanna stop/ Your future life will not change without some kind of professional intervention and thats the cold hard facts.
I went out witha guy whose mother was an alcoholic. They do not stop, they wont stop, their love for you WONT wiin them around. It usually takes something earth shattering to make them stop, and it wont be you. Sorry. in my boyfriends case it was a dsigraceful party after which the entire family refused to ever visit the woman EVER again. At Christmas. Inclduing my b/f : her son. Her own husband left the house. After that she finally booked into AA. She has been sober for over 10 years and leads a good life now - but she can never drink again. Not one drop, not even in her food
Other case, a good friend of mine was going out with an alcoholic. She had 3 drink driving charges, totalled 3 cars with no insurance...and didnt stop for her b/f, my friend. In fact having someone there loving them and willing to put up with their shite, only keeps them going....it wasnt until the police arrested her and she ended up rolling around the gutter out in the street, screaming like a banshee, to get away from them and she was faced with jail, did she finally go to AA. Actuall the judge made her. They have been together for 4 years now and though she is ok at the moment, they cannot go out socialisign together, she cant be around alcohol and he lives under the constant threat of her going off at any time. At no point was it her love for him that got her under control, it was the threat to her own hide
Dont kid yourself. It is treatable, but they have to be seriou about it. If you dont take a serious stand they wont either, Not until something drastic happens. If he wont go to AA I would leave. And mean it. Else why should he change and that kind of professional help and treatment IS the only thing that will work. | |
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| Dating an alcoholic
Posted: 9/18/2005 8:37:01 PM | daking...your next...
Sorry for butting in. 
Just wanted to share that I read in the Sunday paper there are new RXs coming out for treatment of alcoholism. The article said that most MDs might not be familiar with them yet, so a person might have to go through an addiction specialist. It also mentioned some insurance companies are not too anxious to pay for it yet. I don't know anything about the effectiveness or cost. I just thought I would mention it as an option if the alcoholic is interested in recovering.
Just to clarify, this did not change my opinion that it's unwise to date an alchoholic, but I thought I would offer the information for whatever it is worth. | |
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