| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 3:27:31 AM | | In the meantime, whether we're discussing spiritualist mediums or holy-roller faith healers or whatever, the answer to the original question remains "no." I don't have personal experience of all of these folks, nor do I have immediate physical evidence to prove/disprove any claims they might make. Therefore, I have no basis for making a blanket statement about their intentions or abilities. | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 3:28:30 AM | I guess this is bringing up another question.
But I have seen people on here claim that a medium(pschyic) if they accept money must be fake. As it is a gift from God so therefore they shouldn't be paid.
But then the arguement seems to be, if they are real why don't they attempt to prove themselves and get the large prize being offered? That seems to be damned if you do and damned if you don't type of thing.
Also, aren't Ministers of God paid and given housing? Yet they are spreading the word of God, so does that make them false since they accept payment for it? | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 3:32:17 AM | | I'm with you on that one, Serious. 'Course, from the outside, looking in, they _are_ the ones accepting the possibility of damnation, after all... | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 6:28:05 AM | Also, aren't Ministers of God paid and given housing? Yet they are spreading the word of God, so does that make them false since they accept payment for it?
Bingo! So can the so-called Christians tell me again what the difference is between them and another Spiritual Advisor getting paid for services rendered? Oh yeah and Doctor's get paid too so does that mean their healing methods are fake... Ahh the lack of logic in this crowd is mind-boggling.
Cat | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 7:17:38 AM | Feral, I admire your outlook on the matter as I have seen most of the posts here give an answer to the question without physical proof. If all that is provided is written word...is that all that will be believed?
You see it every day in the media where people lie just to get rating and the truth gets twisted....specially on the internet where sources are less then questionable regarding some of the things posted.
Once again I ask that before you mark a "medium" as a cheat or liar...understand the differences of a medium and Spiritual Healer. A medium is a channel between the living and those that have passed into Spirit. A proper medium is educated on the ways that spirit communication should happen...and that includes being guided by those of a higher spirit element surrounded by positive energy. Some religions might call them Angels...some may just refer to them as guides. The frauds unfortunately are many in the media...end up starting out with those ideas in mind...but refuse to expand and educate themselves on Spirit...one can say, they go off on a tangent and report all kinds of wacky things. i.e. Silvia Brown! People like that then become the basis of your discussion about mediums being frauds.
Spiritual Healers can be mediums, but first and formost, they are healers. But healers of what??? They channel energy from Spirit and energy from all around that is good and positive and allow it to flow through the body of a person recieving the healing. The task of a Spiritual Healer is not to cure sickness...it is to aid the person's comfort with what sickness they suffer, be it a headache, arthritis or emotional pain. The power of the mind of an individual is what does the healing, not the healer....if you accept the healing, then you allow god to do the rest! A genuine Spiritual Healer will never claim to be better then a doctor, or have the ability to do god's work. They will only claim that they can try to help a situation.
A genuine healer will never accept money for a healing....because if it is done, then those that work with them in Spirit will leave! This sort of healing works on the good faith and good will of a fellow human being to send positive thoughts to those that need it....it is free for everyone...so to charge will cancel your membership in humanity's goodwill!
God and Spirit work hand in hand and on so many different levels....those that seek proof by offering money only want to see physical evidence of a healing, they want to see a rabbit being pulled out of a hat. That would be like going directly to the creator and asking God: ...."create something!!!!!!" | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:01:33 AM | pausetti:
It amazes me how many folks take the psychics and mediums they see on tv as representative of all psychics and mediums.... I know someone who is in law enforcement and has met and worked with Sylvia Browne personally. While some of her ideas are outlandish and this is what most decent folks psychic believers or not question. My friend assures me that she is a very accurate psychic and has helped the police solve many crimes.
That said, I do think money corrupts and we see this with Christian religious leaders as much as in psychic/mediumistic circles. But am I to take the TV evangelists as representative of Christians? Maybe some folks I have seen in these forums strike me as being as phoney as the TV evangelists but surely not all Christians are that way.
But the point is there are frauds and fakers in every religion and spiritual path. Christians want to tar all psychics and mediums with the same brush then they get upset when the same logic is applied to all Christians based on what the likes of Pat Roberson and Jerry Fallwell do. But you see each side is simply employing the same logic. So if Christians want to present that argument and not have the TV evangelists thrown back at them then perhaps they best clean up their own camp before telling others what is wrong with their beliefs?
As a medium I have been doing this work for over 10 years. I am not rich and I do not intend to make loads of money from doing readings. Money is charged because people do not value something that is given for free. They tend to listen and pay more attention to what comes from Spirit if they have to pay for the medium's time and talent and they are not likely to come back every day looking for a reading if it is going to cost them a bit. I do not and never will charge for Spiritual healing! As you have said to do so is to risk one’s own health and spiritual gifts.
As for readings, I tell people they do not need a reading more than once every 6 months to a year and most could go longer than that. The idea is that it takes time to work with the spiritual insights gained from spirit that can help someone change their lives. It is up to the individual to be personally responsible and take the information given and do something positive with it.
If I was a fraud I would have them coming back daily or weekly and handing me cash... Hmmmm how is this different than what the Christian churches do? The idea seems to be to keep the sheep coming back week after week to fill the offering plate. When I was studying with several Christian churches there was a lot of pressure to get me out to church and keep me coming and guilt and fear tactics were used to little avail. But I had a friend who tithed over 8 grand in one year because of pressure and guilt and she was on social assistance to boot!
Funny as I recall, her minister was dressed in silk suits and taking his family of 4 to Florida twice a year while many in his congregation did without the basic necessities like winter clothing and proper food. Seeing that was when I left Christianity for good and I have absolutely no regets!
I wonder if Jesus came back today if he would recognize modern Christianity as even remotely related to what he taught... I am willing to bet not likely. And what would he make of most modern day Christians?? That is the most important question they have to wonder about. I have my thoughts on what he might think but then I will not be like the hypocrites on this thread who claim to speak for Jesus.
Cat | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:17:09 AM | I just want to say again that no not all are frauds. and Not all are evil either. But if you are a Christian...and I am speaking to Christians here...The word of God is simple....
Le 20:27 -
'Now a man or a woman who is a medium or a spiritist shall surely be put to death. They shall be stoned with stones, their bloodguiltiness is upon them.' "
1Ch 10:13 -
So Saul died for his trespass which he committed against the LORD, because of the word of the LORD which he did not keep; and also because he asked counsel of a medium, making inquiry {of it,}
I don't say that I have all the answers and if you don't agree with this, please your argument is not with me but with God.
Peace | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:27:59 AM | admitone-- if the word of god is so simple then why all the different denominations and infighting within Christianity? And before you say it let's not be blaming that on Satan because the real reason for it is human nature.
And when you can tell me which denomination is the right one with irrefutable proof, I will be glad to re-examine Christianity with consideration of coming back into the fold.
Cat | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:48:47 AM | The only reason I understand to seek out a medium, is if you have questions that need to be answered.
Having said that.
I was at a meeting, where a priest said that mediums are the tool of the devil. After his talk was over I asked him what he ment. I thought it a very strange statement, since I had personaly known one medium who in my eyes, was a very good person .
The priest smilled, and told me that sometimes when speaking to a large crowd he made broad statements. He explained to me that we are to trust in Christ and His plan for us, that we can not always see His plan, nor are we supposed to. If we have pain in our lives, we can give it over to Christ and He will carry it for us. If we are uncertain in life, we are to ask for His strenght and He will guide us. If we listen for His message He will deliver it to us. He also told me, If you have faith you will never walk alone. Your pain will never be more than you can bear. Do I need to know what tomorrow will bring? I will make my life what it will be. I have choices. Each choice leads to the next. The path is very narrow, it is hard to find, but it is always in sight.
I think some ppl find it very hard to have faith. So they seek out other ppl to show them a path.
Are mediums a tool of the devil?
I don't know.
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 10:09:01 AM | Admit,
I am truly curious, do you believe that a psychics gifts are not from God? or a Mediums for that matter?
Didn't the prophets hear voices (or the voice of God). Is it possible that these people actually are doing God's work? | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 10:11:06 AM | A proper medium will not tell you how to live your life....they will not plan things for you.
The message work that a medium does is intended for guidance. I had at one time sought the answer to a relationship issue which was causing deep emotional pain within me. I found myself in front of a medium....guess what? They never told me the answer I wanted. Instead all I got from them was that I needed to look at other things in my life and figure out for myself if I wanted this relationship to continue. The messages I had recieved from that medium directed me to look deep within myself and my personal strengths. To this day I can say I am a much better person for what I was asked to do and i can honestly say, the medium had never directed me in anyway as to what I was to do or what was to come for me in my future.
I would have to say that if anyone claiming to be a medium or psychic gives you a detailed outline of your life to be....and charging you for that....then yes, there is some sort of fraud happening. Only you decide what choices you make in your life and if you asked someone to decide for you...then sure, you invite in all kinds of possibilities. | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 12:53:31 PM | | All mediums are frauds. Unfortunately, they are unwitting frauds. Satan is the one giving them the power. It is ironic that some of them are not aware that Satan is the one behind the occult. In the Bible the way to tell a false prophet was ---if their predictions did not come true, they would be a false prophet. Those who proclaim predictions and astrology like Jeanne Dixon was half right and half wrong in their predictions. Jeane Dixon is the most famous one in history and she herself thought that her work was good. Unfortunately, any of that is under the influence of the demonic realm, and Satan is the head "god" of it. Increasingly, police departments are turning away from psychics because they are a waste of time in solving crimes. Only God's real prophecy as in the Bible is reliable. There were true and false prophets in the Bible. Most followers of the occult don't believe they are serving Satan himself, but they are deceived. Satan is a liar and deciever who has been a liar since lying to the woman in the garden of Eden--"Does God really mean it?" Surely you shall not die, God just doesn't want you to have what he has--the knowledge of ALL THINGS." | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 1:14:19 PM | meekrob,
I can appreciate your opinion, but as with all things on here it is only an opinion.
The bible is one book, that claims these gifts come from satan.
A political attempt at the time to rob powers from the people and put them in the hands of the few.
It happened to work very well, but now the people are saying, Wait a minute! ! ! ! We want the power back in our hands instead.
There are fakes and phonies in everything, many faith healers claim to be ministers of God.
Many mediums claim powers they don't have.
I have had dreams, detailed dreams and day dreams that I have recorded because they seemed so real, only to have them come true. I am not possessed nor does Satan lead me. | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 1:36:23 PM | Hey Cat Proof of what? FYI Your still in the fold.
For those who say their branch of Christianity is right and all others are wrong I want proof so I know which group I should hang with. I mean who wants to be on the losing team right? 
I am not a Christian so how do you figure that I am still in the fold?
If you mean God in a more general sense I know that I like all others here are connected to that life force some call God that orchestrates the universe. So I sleep well at night and make the best of every day I have on the planet. That is all that matters IMO.
Cat | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 2:46:53 PM | Satan is the one giving them the power
This can only happen if you believe in such a entity. Most modern day readers do not subscribe to such a negative source of energy, for the most part, it exists in other relgions that reader/Mediums/psychic do not follow.
While it may exist for the x-tian evangalists, it maybe fact (for them, bit don't ask me to co-sign their bs), but any source of power only has power if it is fed energy or given power. Just as any reader may tell me to look for a few things on the inside to determine the best path, the power is only given if I act on it and take a internal inventory (prayer/meditation) to seek my answers. Anyone in the right mind that takes a humans advice on how to run their life, gets excatly what they earned. We make our own decisions based on the best information we have, that best information seldom ever comes from advice from others for me.
As for frauds, yes, they exists in EVERY religion, look around and make your decision. If you co-sign their BS, then you get what you get. If you don't then you ultimately make the decision, if it is a bad decision, guess who the fraud turns out to me. | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 7:21:12 PM |
All mediums are frauds. Unfortunately, they are unwitting frauds. Satan is the one giving them the power. It is ironic that some of them are not aware that Satan is the one behind the occult.
Meek
This is such a sad truth...
Satan is a liar and deciever who has been a liar since lying to the woman in the garden of Eden
and another sad truth....
I wasnt going to share this ...but I thought you might understand it meek....
I was at the C.N.E. this year, its a big exhibition in Toronto. When I was walking through some of the booths...I came across this one where a lady was doing a reading of some sort on a client. I began to pray in earnest that the if there were any Satanic or demonic spirits present that they be bound. That they are forbidden in the name of Christ from being able to speak here. There was a lot of people there, and I was standing on the other side of the walkway. To my amazement, after about 5 minutes...as My sons looked at other boothes....The client got up and left..and the Seer was staring right at me. Freaked me for a minute, but then I remembered the Armor of God. For me there is no debate. Satan exisists and he lies...he wants you to think he isn't there.. but he is.
Peace | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 7:33:11 PM | @ admitone so which denomination of Christianity is the right one so I can save my soul?? Still waiting for your advice on this so important matter...
Cat | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 7:55:49 PM | This post is on the validity of Mediums not whether or not I can convince you what I believe. I do not wish to debate.
Jas 3:14 -
But if you have bitter jealousy and selfish ambition in your heart, do not be arrogant and {so} lie against the truth.
PEace | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:19:35 PM | admitone-- Interesting you can tell us that all mediums are evil or whatever but you can't tell us poor deluded psychics and mediums which branch of Christianity we should become part of to save our souls??? Hmmm no substance to what you say then because it is opinion with no fact behind it IMO.
I mean anyone can quote the bible and say it means this or that. How is someone like me to know we are on the right road if someone like you can't tell me honestly which denomination is the absolute right way to God??
Cat | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 8:21:44 PM | | Thanks for sharing Admitone, that is a great testimony. I think most fortune tellers are frauds. The other small percentage probably do have some ability that is demonic. | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 9:07:11 PM |
But I have seen people on here claim that a medium(pschyic) if they accept money must be fake. As it is a gift from God so therefore they shouldn't be paid.
But then the arguement seems to be, if they are real why don't they attempt to prove themselves and get the large prize being offered? That seems to be damned if you do and damned if you don't type of thing.
Also, aren't Ministers of God paid and given housing? Yet they are spreading the word of God, so does that make them false since they accept payment for it?
If I may reply to your post...
I do not believe that so called psychic abilities are a gift from God. I believe that they are contrived and faked. I am certain that they will not be claiming any prizes, because they simply can not meet any of the test criteria.
Now as to the issue of Ministers being paid....these are my thoughts on the subject as they relate to the issue at hand.
I do not believe in the concept of professional clergy, I believe in a Protestant idea known as "the priesthood of all believers".
However there are many Protestant churches that accept the idea of Paid, Professional Clergy. I would say that if they are being paid to serve the temporal and spiritual needs of a congregation, then this is not a fraud, as you put it, but a service.
However, if someone as a paid professional clergyman came forward and promised a supernatural, miraculous event, experience or healing in return for money, I will be the first to point a finger and call Bullshit on that lying son of a ****. No where in the Bible does it say anything justifying or sanctifying that sort of thing. If God handed out the gift of miraculous healing to someone, it would be to work in an AIDS ward, not have a TV show, a Rolex and a Rolls Royce.
To me, that is what a psychic is promising, the supernatural, on demand ...and if you are doing this for fun, or maybe someone baking you some cookies or a pie, I simply think you are incorrect but in a sort of a harmless way. If you are doing this for money....I call it a fraud. | |
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| Are all mediums frauds?
Posted: 9/7/2005 10:09:12 PM | Cat
Open your heart.
Do you have an issue with Religion, Or people in religion, Or Christ.
The message is there for all to read and see.
LOVE
To love you must open your heart to all.
Not what you feel.
Not what you want.
Not what you will get in return.
You do because you can.
Ridicule all you want.
The beloved is not the other, but myself.
Pull out all the stops.
You laugh at the losing team.
They who come last, shall be first.
Religion is made up of ppl, they all have needs.
I am not a medium, but I know you are intelligent, and you have love in your heart.
Answer these questions, if you can, to your self.
I have no desire of your thoughts on this.
DELIVER ME O LORD
From the desire of being loved
From the desire of being sought after
From the desire of being praised
From the desire of being honoured
From the desire of being prefered
From the desire of being consulted
From the desire of being approved
From the desire of being spared
From the fear of being humbled
DELIVER ME O LORD
From the fear of being despised
From the fear of being rebuked
From the fear of being calminated
From the fear of being forgotten
From the fear of being made game of
From the fear of being laughed at
From the fear of being insulted
O Jesus, whose first lesson has been.
Learn from me because I am meek and humble of heart,
Teach me to become humble of heart like You.
This never fails to bring me all the way back to the begining.
I am what you give me O Lord.
Blah Blah Blah
Jack
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