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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THOSE CLEVER GIRLS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 1:24:19 PM | | I have to respond to this unwarrented attack on Valariepainter. "Put up with...logical extractions and meanderings about people, behaviour and illusions?" How horrible, an evening of substantive discussion with an insightful and articulate woman! In fact the points she made in her post were valid, and I found myself in agreement with her argument more so than the majority of emotional ramblings that one sees on these forums. She was making the point that the world is not black and white, but complicated and subjective, and it is myopic, simple-minded expectations that lead to much unhappiness in relationships. She is entirely accurate to say, "what a strange belief." The whole "bad guy/good guy" concept is such a simplified abstraction that it boggles my mind that this discussion is even warrenting ten pages. It reminds me of the age old question, "do you believe people to be basically evil or basically good?" The truth is that that is a meanigless question. Good evil are human constructs, and abstract judgements, and not references to some universal and absolute forces. People are good and evil depending on their actions. Perhaps you see an evening with Valariepainter as "being educated," and not as dialouge, because, sadly, you have much to learn. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 1:49:40 PM |
they are so nice, but cant get a GF
Maybe I'm not a great catch, but I can tell you there are a few nice guys I've talked to who could have a girlfriend if I didn't live so far away.
I don't want a bad boy. In fact, I'd love to be with someone nice.... providing that he was intelligent, had a great sense of humor, his own hobbies, and no desire to please me all the time.
I hate the way you people keep getting confused between "nice guy" and "spineless whimpering door mat." They aren't the same thing. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THOSE CLEVER GIRLS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 2:14:58 PM | I'm not going to say I'm a 'nice guy.' In all honesty, my intentions are probably less pure now than they were when I was younger. I will say that many of those things Mortiis said in his first post are things that I have done, or would do, given that situation. I do not do this out of a desire to get a reward. I don't even do it to be a decent person. I just do it because it is right.
Someone else posted earlier that they became bitter because they do it because it is right, and will continue to do it, despite the fact that it doesn't seem to get them any where. I can only plea the same in regards to continuing to do it. I am not bitter. I am frustrated, not with women, but with a world where doing right does not seem to protect you when the wrong intrudes upon your life.
I believe the point Mortiis was trying to make was not that 'nice guys' are nice because they expect something from it, but that 'nice guys' are nice and become frustrated when people do nothing but doubt their motives or character. I do not expect to be acknowledged when I am nice to someone. I don't expect to be punished for it, either.
It is hard not to be frustrated when others seem to reap the rewards of your efforts. I'm not talking about sexual rewards. I'm talking about affection. A truly 'nice guy' isn't in it for just sex, but for a legitimate and intimate connection with that other person. A truly 'nice guy' will not push his female friend into the relationship he wants, but will wait and hope she will some day see him for what he is.
Someone said that we characterize ourselves as 'nice guys' when we 'aren't getting laid' and want to attribute blame to the world rather than ourselves. It was also said that we are attracted to abusive women because we are abusive, or wish to be abused.
If you think a healthy, loving relationship is abusive, then you are absolutely right. As for blaming the world when 'nice guys' 'aren't getting laid,' I can only say that the truly 'nice guys' are looking for Ms. Right - not a quick half-hour hay ride, if you know what I mean - and finding feelings that are not reciprocated. 'Nice guy' does not mean saint. It means a decent human being who just happens to be male.
Decent human beings look for more than the next lay. They look for a life partner. They might, as humans tend to be, a little screwed up, but so is the rest of the world. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 248 | |
| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THOSE CLEVER GIRLS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 3:15:18 PM |  to Suzy!
So Bill, if a guy is a nice guy, he should keep it a secret, because if he tells someone he's a nice guy, he's all of a sudden no longer a nice guy?
Weird how that works...
A truly 'nice guy' isn't in it for just sex, but for a legitimate and intimate connection with that other person. A truly 'nice guy' will not push his female friend into the relationship he wants, but will wait and hope she will some day see him for what he is. It's all about respect. Good post, by the way. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 3:28:26 PM | 
WOW mortiis, man you tell it like it is
the worst part of being a nice guy is that dreaded word BUT
thats right ,as in "YOURE A GREAT GUY ,,,,,,,BUT
i learned the hard way that i couldnt be the nice guy anymore
i spent many years being the friend ,the confidant, the person that women could trust , and where did that get me BAH
only when i got old enough to know better i changed,dont get me wrong im still the nice guy
BUT ( that word again) with an edge ,more confidence , and beleive me WOMEN NOTICE THAT
the bottom line here 9 out of 10 women out here that say they are looking for nice guys are liers and that 1 women left are either married or in a relationship.
GUYS , YOU CAN STILL BE NICE , but mix some attitude ,that happy medium will make you a winner every time
trust me i know , BECAUSE I USED TO BE A NICE GUY
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 3:40:30 PM |
the bottom line here 9 out of 10 women out here that say they are looking for nice guys are liers and that 1 women left are either married or in a relationship.
Let me correct that for you... 9 out of 10 of the exquisitely beautiful model-types that SOME of you self-proclaimed "nice guys" are going for might be lying or married.
There are plenty of incredible women out there... they just might not come in the shiny packaging that you were hoping for. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 3:55:59 PM | hate to burst your buble suzy
BUT I WILL
ive never been the type of guy to judge a book by its cover
men cannot be faulted for being attracted to who ever they are
i have women friends who are , in turn ,nice girl types who i hang out with regularly
we talk about my relationships,her relationships or what ever
there is a difference between having a friend of the opposite sex and having someone as part of a romantic ,long term relationship
and maybe , just maybe i was a weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee bit off colour with my last posting
what i should have said was 8 out of 10 women
because the ever elusive 1 woman is hard to find | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 4:08:15 PM | Yes Suzy, good information. there is a difference between spineless (like a guy who makes a big deal of how nice he is or complains he cant find a woman because he is nice), and guy who is really nice and doesnt need to tell the world, or proclaim "nice guys finish last"
Now do you see what I mean Garf? | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 254 | |
| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 4:15:27 PM | Oh yeah, I agree with you there, Bill.
There's a big difference with a guy who's a whiney doormat, and a guy who is just simply a nice guy.
I don't complain that I can't find a woman because I'm a nice guy. Not in the least. I'm not even looking at this point in my life anyway, I just came out of a long-term relationship that ended in March. I'm enjoying my solitude for now... Maybe I'll go to Illinois someday...hmm... | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 4:23:50 PM | | I agree with some of your points. The thing I get the most is your like a brother to me or I would date you. Needless to say I haven't talked o any of those women that have said that to me since. When you say we finish last thats not always the case, but if the women want a buffer when they goto the bars to keep the creeps away just make sure you can't be found and then they'll realize that maybe by dating you then they wont need the buffer anymore because they'll have someone that's not a creep but a geniune gentleman that will treat them right and not be an ***hole to them. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 4:26:00 PM | I'll leave a light on for ya, Garf!
The worst thing about really awesome Canadian guys... they'll never visit us because we don't have Tim's down here and we can't fully understand their obsession.
OT: I wonder why Mace never hooked up with any of those nice girl types that he's just friends with. Could it be?? Do NICE GIRLS finish last?
Kermit: Thanks.. that was sweet to say.
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 6:35:53 PM | well i read halfway thru, before just getting tired of hearing the same thing over and over.
i'm gonna adress this about girls, but the same is true in the reverse, possibly even more so.
the DEFINITIVE answer to "WHY DOES THIS ALWAYS HAPPEN TO ME? (*sob*)"
men and women are attracted to the opposite of what they want.
plain and simple, girls -want- a "nice guy". but thousands of years of evolution have coded them to -respond- to a "strong guy". strong parents mean strong children mean the tribe is stronger. etc. of course this was all coded way back when we were still living in caves, and the built in safeguards of "being eaten by dinner" weeded out the posers automatically.
nowadays, unfortunately, typically that strength is most apparent in jerks. because they are out there yelling it up, acting all tough and macho. girls sees, girl responds, girl ends up crying about it to the nice guy. the nice guy has the quiet strength to pick her up, set her back on her feet, and help her keep on going. of course since he's not displaying obvious strength, she keeps on going right past him.
even right in this thread, girls are openly declaring that they want contradictory things without realizing it. one woman said she wanted a "nerd with confidence". um what? all those things that make him a nerd tend to drive him into a state of very low confidence, or extreme reclusiveness. trust me i am one. i am a nerd, i have some confidence.. but i'm not going to be out there and "tell you how it's gonna be". i also want someone who's not gonna make an ass of herself in public, and who is going to want a LOT of attention from me.
what we get back to in the end, is that people aren't -looking- for something, they are just -responding- to it. "you never get a second chance to make a first impression"... but the first impression is rarely a complete story, and often a completely inaccurate story.
stop looking for the guy who's going to write an essay that makes you all quivery and excited when you open the mail. try something simple and sincere; "hey nice pics. interesting profile. wanna chat?"
of course that doesn't work, because it isn't exciting. it's merely sincere. | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 258 | |
| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 6:49:45 PM |
...men and women are attracted to the opposite of what they want.
Maybe you are.
I don't go for domineering women, or women who are easily domineered. There's a certain level of confidence that I am comfortable with, and I like to call it "normal" for the most part.
Suzy, Tim Horton's puts heroin in the coffee...I swear, it's the only explaination! I actually left a snowboarding trip in Kamloops to go somewhere else, just because there was no Tim Horton's...they have one now, so it's cool. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 6:56:49 PM | let me clarify;
we want someone stable and caring...
but someone who acts wild and all-out has an attraction.
well, until you start to learn what lies underneath that and realize that most of them are just cracked in the head.
mmm timmys.. *drools* i... i think i need to go out for a few minutes. *looks around shifty-eyed* | |
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Garf
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Joined: 4/4/2005
Msg: 260 | |
| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 7:09:11 PM | Yeah, I can see what you're saying zerael. That happens a lot. More for women than men, though. They see this guy who is real confident, and is always the center of attention, and it makes sense for them to want to be the one with the alpha male.
Unfortunately, the Alpha male is often just an over-confident jock, who is just looking for a fun time, not a relationship.
I say this as an example of what happens frequently, not generalizing every guy out there who happens to be an Alpha male, like I described here. Some of the Alphas are great guys, there's no doubt there. And the women that end up with them are lucky ones indeed.
But for those Alphas that are great guys, they do attract the gold-diggers as well, and this can make them bitter players after awhile.
It's a vicious cycle, that's for sure.
Also why I avoid the bar scene.
I tend to be the Alpha at times.
zerael while you're out, make mine an extra large triple-triple...I'll send you the cheque for the $1.55 when you get back. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 7:33:23 PM | TIMMAN: I was in Philly, Jersey and NYC for a week or so back in 2001.
Zerael: Thanks! Be careful... the US might arrest you for drug trafficking!
OT: I don't think it's impossible to be a "nerd with confidence." I know quite a few guys like that. Perhaps we need to be clear on how we define the word? | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 8:20:00 PM | Go ahead Suzy. I'd love to hear your definition of "Nerd with Confidence" 
I know I qualify for the first half. And I'm anxious to see if I can get a check mark for the confidense  | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 8:21:02 PM | | What you say is so true I feel I must be americas #1 nice guy and yes sometimes I feel that yes; I will finish last, but the truth of the matter is that I love myself and know my worth, and know one can take that from me; futhermore to the comment on the statement natures candy made althrough most is true you in my prospective "for what its worth" are wrong on one point I feel nice guys are too busy looking for nice girls and like you said may be in the present of good people, but they are not all that nice lol, but I on the other hand look at all women and i actully look for the good in them because as long as you look for the perfect person "the nice women" guess what nice guys; you just may be last, we have to get pass the red tape and make an choice and be more assertive and get what we want sometimes you have to look for the good in people to find what you want. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 9:26:15 PM | attention mortiis88:
It really does seem that the good guys do finish last all the time. I thought about being someone I am not and maybe girls will like that even better. Why DO girls like the bad guys and not the good guys?? It seems that girls want to be "abused" physically, emotionally, and mentally to feel that they are worth something and I do not get that at all. Those who have been abused are always attracted to guys who abuse women!! Women have told me that I am a very sweet and nice guy, yet they do not go for me at all!! I had an online girlfriend who claimed she loved me more than her online boyfriend and wanted to be with me cuz I was "nice and sweet" to her, yet she was still going out with her online boyfriend who was cheating on, playing, using and lying to her!! She was very similar to him. She claimed that she wanted to marry me more than him, yet the whole time, she had wanted him. She was stringing me along, using and lying to me, saying she "loved, thought about, and missed" me. After the first time she lied to me, I did not trust her and she gained my trust back a little bit. After I told her I forgave her, she went for him completely and I just told her I did not want anything to do with a girl who was a slut, prostitute, liar, user, player, and cheater!! The only things she told the truth about were her cell number, location, one of her email account info and real name. Everything else, she lied to me about. She claimed she had feelings for me and I did not believe her at all. If I had known she was a prostitute, I would have never gone for her at all!! I know we do not know each other, but I just wanted to say I know how it feels to "finish" last!! :( | |
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vp2
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Joined: 8/29/2005
Msg: 267 | |
| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/29/2005 10:26:34 PM | to the OP
yes, some nice guys finish last, still. I'm not saying I finish last, but there are still some that do. I, for one, am a "nice guy", but I get to wake up every morning and see my son. I didn't take custody to "not finish last", but it still lets me know that we do still "win" when it matters. | |
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| THIS GOES OUT TO ALL THE NICE GUYS!!! READ ME
Posted: 9/30/2005 7:12:32 AM | | yea,,,, The girls want nice guys..LOL RIGHT..... Thats what I hear all of the time. But when its comes to meeting. ( its OH I am already seeing someone. you are too far away. I have just found someone..And you are still on the sites looking?????) I hear how the women hate game players.. Look in mirror!! There are plenty of you doing that very same thing that you clian to hate... | |
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