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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 9/30/2005 10:26:18 PM | Because something made them lose interest, and some things are way beyond discussing -- that's why.
Case in point, met a wonderful Latino woman here (Latin women being one thing I thank Florida for), dated for three months, had Ms in front of her handle. Said her hubby had betrayed her, the rot, and all that, and he never did anything for her. We talked about everything, and I had told her that my ex and I had split all the bills, had a mutual account for problems, and what she earned was hers and what I earned was mine. Then at Pompano beach a bit later Ms dropped in my lap that her husband had paid all the bills -- mortgage, and all the rest, and that my arrangement with my ex was bull****. Since he never bought her a car ort any expensive jewelry, that counted as never having got her anything.
I said thanks for clearing it up, and went snorkling. Never spoke to her again when we got back. And I loved her, not liked or was boinking her for kicks...but the road has signs and sometimes it says Dead End.
Still looking for a partner, not a dependent with her own career.......I think the days of "What's hers is hers, and what's yours is hers" are long gone. | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 9/30/2005 10:44:11 PM | | maybe it was right after something being said, such as you saying something along the lines like you use to boink O.J. Simpson and all his buddies. who knows. maybe he simply decided to chase after another gal, in which case he's fickle. | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/1/2005 4:58:30 AM | All this Soul Sick talk of 'growin balls', or 'cuttin off his balls' is entirely inappropriate.
Look to your anti-male attitudes for some WHY's. | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/12/2005 8:51:38 PM | First off, I'm married. Bare with my rant please. Men disappear because....
Ahh these damn forums. All this technology and people are primal at their core, as they were 50 thousand years ago. I'm glad fball90girl posted this reply. I have to say however, that something
as simple in theory as "why can't people just communicate anymore" isn't always possible.
It would require a collective level of intelligence that all people, both genders, see as a standard of conduct. Awful to say, but most people are cop outs. North American culture is sociopathic in nature.
There are women who have this idea of "my prince will come" what an unrealistic pathetic notion.
There are men who want a new Britney Spears type in their bed every week. Personally, I think most people are somewhere right in the middle, and some fall to a greater or lesser degree, closer to either the left (sociopathology) or the right (ultra conservative monogamists).
I've screwed around more than a few times on my wife. I've been browbeaten by female friends, judged harshly in forums by women - being completely honest about how "I" feel about monogamy
doesn't always afford me understanding. I feel like saying to the female population of North America — When did monogamy ever exist? It's a myth! An ideology that's been placed on us.
This notion isn't evil, or selfish, or man driven for that matter, it's simply part of nature. Go to Europe, you'll find out how quickly monogamy isn't the "norm". Bill Maher - the comedian said in a standup routine "as successful as our speices is, we didn't populate the world being monogamous.
I don't know why "most" women have such a hard time dealing with it. This is the one point in history where people should be able to live without severe judgment. Why doesn't any woman on here admit to the fact that, being a woman entitles you to be overly picky and choosy, sometimes without end. That isn't equality. Until both men and women can be sexual "equals" there will always be conflict between the sexes. Again "most" women who are willing to have sex with a man, be he married, single, a greek god, or very average, have a list of criteria that is ALWAYS conditional.
So there it is, I'll sleep with you "IF". Look at the majority of the female profiles on here. They're comprised of unfulfilled lonley women. Some have butt shots, or leg shots, but their profiles read
"seek, caring, compassionate, long term only" etc. What??? It's a relentless window shopping spree. I understand that they're tired of the "lame" men who don't call back or "disappear" etc, but it's a by product of how men and women communicate. I personally feel that "most" women just can't accept that men are very different from them.
Most of the women I know, have what I call an "all or nothing" mentality. That is, they can't allow themselves to simply enjoy the company of a man, including sex, being friends, having respect for one another - without questioning "is this is going somewhere". What does that mean? Why must everything be going somewhere. Do they think getting married, having children and maintaining the status quoe is any less contrived than men simply wanting sex? Yeah, there should be a way to communicate our differences, but until we stop being vicious with one another, it won't happen.
People are supposed to pair bond, but not just with one partner, hasn't everyone figured that out yet? Why do you think celebrities change partners like their underwear? Because financially, they can. Imagine if everyone had the economic freedom to be able to have different sexual experiences without having to pay for it through the nose, either monetarily, or through guilt and shame.
How would a woman feel if a man posted a profile that read: "Only sexy women apply, must have a great booty, solid legs, not talk too much" etc. He'd be crucified. Well ladies, (not all of you) some of your profiles read with the same severity, and it's offensive, because it's all or nothing, and again, why do you feel that sense of "I deserve". You don't deserve shit. You get what you get in life, you don't custom order people, this isn't the shopping network.
Men disapper because they aren't that into you as someone said. Plenty of men and women do it to each other all the time. You're right, it's as simple as saying "not quite for me". Then that opens up a whole other can of worms. About 5 years ago, I had an arrangement with a Ukranian woman - from the Ukraine. She was the most enlightening, raw, intelligent, open and liberating woman I think I've ever met. We were sex friends, simply put. It lasted for almost 7 months, until, she found someone that she wanted to "settle down with". She probably never would have dated me, unless I came forward and said, "I think you're the one". Or, maybe she wasn't that into me? I dealt with it.
The point is, unless you can accept a man saying:
"I think you're really attractive, I want to have sex with you, vigorously, many many times, I want to know you intimately, be friends, hang out, be very close, but I'm not sure if it'll go beyond that".
You'll only be waiting out the inevitable. Most women would probably say take a walk. Your unwillingness to modify your expectations - in a realistic way, makes us want to put you off.
Is there anyone who understands this? | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/12/2005 9:00:23 PM | | hmm this same situation happens to me all the time and I can't figure out why? Maybe its because all the men seem to just want sex and I'm not down with that like I would talk with a guy on here for a few months then maybe meet up with him and all he will wanna do is make out but then when I try talking to him again on messanger or phone or anything it's like he will avoid me and not want anything to do with me? and I don't understand why...this has happened many of times so I'm just ready to give up and say **** men.. I think fate wants me to be alone. | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/13/2005 11:03:35 AM | Read my last reply strawberry. It's as honest as it gets. I think people move in cycles. Sometimes both men and women enter the cycle simultaneously, hence stories from girlfriends or guyfriends for that matter that sound like "wow, I met the most amazing guy (girl), we clicked there was chemistry". They end up dating for any length of time until one or both of them come out of that cycle. Notice how lonely people always end up finding one another. It isn't magic, or "meant to be".
The belief of "it's meant to be" just kills me, utterly ridiculous.
If I was single, and went out actively looking for a woman to date for something long term, as much as we both may want it, I might have to deal with her scrutiny, or her mine - all because of the
"all or nothing" mentality.
You said, "maybe it's because all the men seem to just want sex and I'm not down with that". How unfortunate. It's too bad that you view it that way. How do you think it feels to be put off after getting to know someone over weeks, months etc. You should just accept the fact that men will always want sex. It doesn't always mean that it's "ONLY" sex. I find no matter how I word it, massage it, or blatantly tell the truth, I'm never met halfway with understanding - always judgement, or worse, a guilt trip that comes from some higher moral ground.
Why would any man want to talk indefinitely with a woman for months on end is beyond me. Any woman who needs to know someone for that long -online no doubt, has some serious issues with criteria. Why wouldn't you have met him in person earlier? Now he feels like he's wasted a lot of his time - especially if you had some kind of connection, but now you're "not down with that" because he wants to get physical? Imagine the gall of him to crave physical contact after months of getting to know you!
You sent him mixed messages, and he's pissed. He's thinking, —F YOU! I've courted women for months, and was always under the impression that we were getting closer in many ways, not just so I could sleep with her, and still I was accused of "not taking her seriously". Now days, for a man to spend "months" simply talking to a woman, giving undivided attention, should be a testiment to his character. Don't you realize he WAS into you. You blew it because like most women, you made him wait too long, making him jump through your myriad of hoops, just so you can qualify him.
If you're that hard line on not having sex with someone unless they're "in love" with you, you shouldn't put "dating" into your profile. Be REALLY specific, and say "Not looking for sex at all", then and only then will you be able to weed out all those men who "just want sex" as you put it. Keep in mind, you'll be alone for a long long time. No guy wants to wait for an undetermined amount of time, just so you can feel comfortable enough to "consider" having sex with him. I mean, what makes you so special? That's how men think. Period.
The only way men can defend themselves against that kind of scrutiny, is to either:
a) lie,
b) be completely honest with you,
c) or wait you out, until they're not willing to wait anymore.
And yes, you should say **** men, you might get more honesty from them. I'm not saying sleep around at random, but what do you have against men wanting to sleep with you? Fate doesn't want you to be alone, you're alone because you're not willing to adjust your expectations to consider the reality of what men have to deal with. Sucks to be you! | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/13/2005 12:12:15 PM | Ok first of all, I don't think anyone should change their beliefs for any one person. Now Mr. Patiently waiting, didn't you say you are married? Can I know why on earth you would be on a online dating site? I really don't think she should have sex with a guy just because they've known her for two months. If she feels like she's ready to have sex with a guy, then yeah she should have sex but other wise she shouldn't. Only because a guy has sacraficed two moths to try to get to know her is not a good enough reason just to have sex. If he thinks its time for them to do that and she backs away, then he should voice his opinion regarding that subject. If you like someone a lot, you will wait to as long as they want if they're not ready. You do know, they're some people that wait to get married but because they like a guy or girl, should they just give that up? And even if their not virgins, should they just let it go and have sex? I don't think so! People have the right too chose what they want and if someone can't wait for the other one, then "its not meant to be"...and yes, ITS NOT MEANT TO BE.
Girls, this is one of the reason why men might bail. They might be married and want to have fun without the affair. Or their are singles guys that talk to several woman and they find the one that is more interesting to them and leave you for someone else.
I've had the same problem where I get to know a guy and they just bail on me without telling me nothing.
When I was younger I did that once because I couldn't figure out how to say "I'm just not that into you" but I've realized over the years how bad this could feel especially when its you.
I do think people should be able to be honest and not make each other go nuts trying to figure out why they left you.
Guys are scared sometimes to tell us girls they want something else because they don't know how we'll react. So guys, seriously, you're better off telling her the truth no matter how much it will hurt because it will help us with closer and we won't have to bring this to a new relationship. Yes we might scream, cry, break down, and hit but in the end, you're not doing us a favor by staying or leaving without a peep.
Girls, just think of the way it would feel if someone would ever do this to you.
Remember do onto to others what you want done onto your self.
And GIRLS, don't have sex just because he's talking to you and its been over two months.
If he bails because of that, he's just not that into you. Its plain and simple. Stop giving excuses! | |
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| Bravo — Green_eyes1981
Posted: 10/13/2005 1:30:56 PM | You made some great points. Please keep in mind I'm not saying that she "should" have sex with him just because he's been around for 2 or 3 months. I'm saying don't discredit him because he wants to have sex.
Here's the problem Green eyes: Although I'm married, I've had to endure some things that in my opion, just aren't acceptable. I'm not interested in laying out all of my personal problems, but I can tell you this, in my case (as is the case for many men, AND women) my partner simply lacks the gusto to keep me interested. I'll go out on a limb; despite many years of good memories, solid partnersip and the like, I've always been the one to be the spontaneous one, surprising her here and there, —especially in the bedroom. I've done backflips to make as memorable whenever possible for both myself and her. The truth is, she's LAME, not only sexually, but in mind.
She has become complacent, and despite all of the opinions of girlfriends who say things like:
"well, have you tried this?" "You know, you have to learn to spice things up" Yadda yadda yadda.
The fact of the matter is, I've been the one that's kept that part going, and now that I've had it, all of a sudden in her mind "there's something wrong"! DUH! yeah, of course there is. The worst part of it all, is that she's completely aware of it, she just doesn't "have the time". I've had better, and worse, long before I met her, so I'm thinking back to those experiences and saying to myself,
"why the hell am I with this woman"?
Again, the guilt trip from every woman I ever cared to explain this to always ends in "well, maybe you should leave then", yet none of them have ever even had a relationship a third as long as ours.
If there's one thing I can't stand, it's people commenting on issues that they don't have the experience for. There's a mountain of issues to consider when leaving, I may even be in the process of doing so, but until then, should I not be able to at least have some physical companionship, coupled with respect, and integrity. — Of course not most women say, you should leave first.
In my case, I can't just up and leave, I don't have that option at the present time. It's something I'll have to plan, make arrangements for, and further planning. The only people who up and leave have an instant safety net, not all of us do.
Most women think that it has to be either/or, all or nothing, and that puts you at fault. Again, your unwillingnes to just enjoy the experience for what it is, makes men feel at odds with you. It's really like saying "well, I'm not sure if you're worthy just yet". I'm not saying sleep around, I'm saying why must you have so many mechanisms in place that avoid the issue until it entirely suits you.
How's that for socio-pathic. I'm brutally honest, with my own partner, her friends, my friends, and it doesn't get me anything but grief. That female expression "I demand honesty", is ridiculous. You can't deal with that level of honesty, which is why men lie in the first place. I gave up lying a long time ago. You're right Greey eyes, I am on here, and I'm married, and I don't really give a shit what she thinks at this point. Most women who see my profile, and realize that I've put married at the top of my shpeel probably just avoid me, and think to themselves "what an ***hole, poor her".
Of course, there's no possible way that my wife's lack of involvement helped push me here.
When it's a woman's turn, I hear:
"awwe, he's not paying attention to you, he has no clue how lucky he is to have you." All of a sudden, when it's a group of women discussing infidelity because the man has lost interest, it's COMPLETELY justified. — And don't say "well, those women are wrong". I've had girl friends of mine change their tune in mid argument, just so they don't have to admit to having double standards.
And don't factor in that this particular female friend of mine became excessively overweight. Yeah, his desire for her and the way he feels about her sexually has NOTHING to do with that.
-What's that line from As Good As It Gets with Jack Nicholson? "How do you write women so well"? And he says "simple, I think of man, and I take away reason and accountability"
Most women are so unrealistic that it puts them at odds with men. You're unwillingness to see it for what it is puts unreasonable pressure on you, and the men you're dealing with. All that can come out of that is negativity. I've tried to do my best over the years, and it just boils down to one thing, my wife is LAME in mind and in bed, PERIOD. It's up to me to do something about it, so here I am, doing something about it. Until you've been there knee deep, keep your judgements to yourself.
And Green eyes, when you said:
" People have the right too chose what they want and if someone can't wait for the other one, then "its not meant to be"...and yes, ITS NOT MEANT TO BE." Again, conditions, and more conditions. I'm not saying men aren't willing to wait — they're not willing to wait indefinitely, when they haven't had sex in months. It's unbelievably frustrating and agonizing. And in the midst of all this, you're expecting them to be understanding and patient?
Why can't you put things into context? Funny too, most women consider it "giving something up".
Sex as a weapon, as a leverage tool to fulfill your unrealistic expecations of what a man is supposed to be. Don't you realize that your body isn't the ultimate thing you're giving up?
Your mind is. Wouldn't you be more hurt and angry if a man took advantage of your kindnees,
or tried to diminished your character by being belitteling you. That's when I've hurt the most.
When someone misinterprets what you mean, not even deliberately, sometimes they're just stupid.
I completely understand the "just sex" part. I don't even want "just sex". Even women I want to sleep with, I see them as potential girlfriends, I love who they are, I like their headspace, what they believe in, - but not always. A lot of the time their ideas of couplehood are contrived, simpleminded and dull. And I'm supposed to be able to take them seriously?
Outta Steam! | |
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| patiently-waiting
Posted: 10/13/2005 4:46:25 PM | | Your last two post are right on the money, I feel.. I would have to agree, the lady have unrealistic expectations and often contradict them self with lines like "looking for someone sensitive and manly" ???? | |
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| patiently-waiting
Posted: 10/13/2005 9:59:01 PM | | Ok first of all that is not what I ment, so why are you making it out like I'm a bad person here? sure if he stuck around for months and years I would eventually maybe have sex with him but I'm waiting for the one it's what I believe and I ment like the first time meeting him and him wanting to go at it right away I see that as wrong and maybe he just wanted a peice the ladys will get what I mean by this I don't think men like you would then, oviously you didn't get it the first time around | |
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| patiently-waiting
Posted: 10/14/2005 7:42:40 AM | If you women aren't sure why he doesn't get back to you, it may be because there was just no chemistry, and honesty sure isn't rewarded in the world we live in. Imagine if a guy told you, point blank, that he didn't want to date you again because you weren't that interesting! How would that go? I'm guessing a few choice words would come out. So much easier just to let it fade away. Speaking from experience on this one.
Read "He's just not that into you". You'll understand. | |
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| For StrawberryShorty and anyone else....
Posted: 10/14/2005 9:14:26 AM | I'm personally in a really bad place right now, so my "ranting" is a little severe. I'm fully aware of that. Without brow beating you - which is not how I meant my last reply to unfold, I'm not making you out to be a bad person, quite the contrary, you're probably a very decent and honest person.
But, at the core, you have unrealistic expections.
And yes, men like me do get it, I get it better than you think. And I got it the first time around many years ago. I was raised by an amazing single mother, there's nothing wrong with my sense of morality, she did a great job. Realize this though, my own mother has explained to me the differences between men and women, at a very young age. I come from divorce (and not a pretty one). If there's anyone who has granted "most" of the women I've experienced in life understanding, the notion that they are special, humility and decency, it's me. I can honestly say,
I can count on 1 hand the number of times I've experienced women who've extended me the same courtesy in return.
Like the 2 previous posts, there's this collective female ideology that a man can only be qualified on YOUR terms, and your terms only. There is very rarely a "meeting of the minds", unless 2 people are exactly in the same cycle as each other - I've seen this, and I've experienced it personally. The problem that many women have is that they use this as a frame of reference to "qualify" men.
It's unrealistic, it puts men at odds with you, and it makes them angry. The only reason you can be afforded that kind of scrutiny is because you dont' feel you have to meet any man "halfway", and that in and of itself keeps men at bay from treating you the way you feel you "should" be treated.
It's that simple. Again, endless conditions. I'm not saying what you're looking for doesn't exist, but I think your expectations are far above what you'll find in the real world, and that comes from watching girlfriends of mine who've had the very same expectations fall flat on their faces.
Again — EXPECTATIONS, unrealistic ones at that. The fact is, you don't see sex as a "given." To you, it's something you can hold over a man until he meets all of YOUR criteria. The reason why women who wait it out so long are alone, is because men also have their own criteria list, whether you believe you have ultimate control over them or not, it's a 2 way street. DON'T take this as a man's justification to just want to have sex with anyone. As much as I'm married, I really dont' want to have sex with just anyone, I can do that all by myself. In my admission of this, does it afford me any greater understanding by you or any other woman? Probably not. There's the problem! You have tics and tacs, a checklist, that if not met ENTIRELY on YOUR terms, leaves someone like me on the sidelines, and I speak for "most" men.
My intention for my last two posts was to open up that proverbial can of worms to promote some dialogue. I'm well aware that some men would jump on their date - on the first meeting, even after months of talking etc. — Shame on him, for real. You're right, that is a little much for him to simply expect sex from her on the first date. What's more, it's tacky.
I don't understand this in the least however:
"sure if he stuck around for months and years I would eventually maybe have sex with him but I'm waiting for the one". Now, although I have my own personal opinions on that subject of "the one",
I'll back off a little to give that idea some room. Even I had that notion when I was younger.
There's nothing wrong with waiting for the "one", but realize, you'll probably be waiting a long, long time. I know women who've been in the same boat, and their reply was "well, I can afford to wait, if he's the right one, it'll be worth it." EVERY single one of those women over the years, altered their expectations to accommodate men as they went along, they had to, or else they would have been waiting until they were old and grey.
The FACT is, right now as we speak, there over 100,000 possible mate candidates for every person.
As a species, we're not that unique, from one person to another, not really. Yes, there are some people that will never "click" the chemistry just isn't there, and it is almost entirely based on chemistry. Many people dont' realize that. They believe there's some greater force at hand that draws people together - that's all the BS that romance novels are based on, which is why women buy them in the first place. It reinforces all the false ideas they have about couplehood. There are universal truths about men and women, in my experience, more often than not, it's women that completely ignore those facts about men, hoping that there is "one good guy left on the planet".
It's a shame that there are men who are predatory. They ruin it for the rest of us, and men like me, have to pay for your hangups because of your previous bad experiences, and don't tell me women dont' do that, it's like a calling card.
I mean seriously, "If he stuck around for months and years I would eventually maybe have sex with him"?????? Do you have any idea how that sounds to every guy on here? Most of them, if they read that would be LOL at home, because it's utterly ridiculous.
Of course men want to get laid, that's a given. What you think you have to guard yourself against men from , there's a flip side to that coin that men have to endure from women? Even when a man is as sincere, understanding, and kind as he can be, he's always on the cusp of being scrutinized. Most of the women I know, although they'll make comments like "he's so sweet, and he's intelligent, compassionate" etc, if he says ONE thing that is contrary to any of those traits he has, all of sudden, he's been placed on the shit list. He's not entitled to have the right to disagree with those touchy subjects, like monogamy, or not concurring with what the women at hand believe in.
—It's that lack of courtesy, that's hardly every extended to us. Don't you ever watch "Sex TV"? There are many authors, anthropologists, sociologists and the like who ARE women. They themselves are discounting all of the "fairy tale" notions that modern day women still hold dear.
They're flat out saying, that's not how people are. We're not monogamous by nature. It doens't work anymore. It might have 100 years ago, - pre-industrialization, when people had to stay together for mere survival - power in numbers etc. People weren't even monogamous then, the difference was, if they had "another" lover, they probably didn't live in the same town. Look at how close people live to one another today, there is no personal space anymore. Now, everyone can see what we do. If you're seen with somone else, the odds of you or your partner getting
"found out" are so much more likely now. People aren't supposed to aware of everything.
Some things in nature just "are". Because, that's the way we're wired biologically. Still, people fight it with everything they have, rather than just accepting the fact that that's probably the way it was intended to be, otherwise, we'd never be attracted to anyone other than our parter.
Personally, I think "most" women, but again, not all, are still at odds with what their own sexuality. They'll go to a club or bar, deck out in the most provacative clothing, accentuating all of their physical attributes, only to tell a man "well, I'm not looking for that, I want to be taken seriously."
Unbelievable hypocrisy, mixed messages and the like. Ever see Dave Chappell's "Killing Them Softly"? Watch it, it's as honest as it gets. He makes a similar analogy about how women present themselves VS what they actually want. It's painfully funny, because it's entirely true.
Am I the only one who understands this? | |
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| Strawberry, Case in point, check this out.
Posted: 10/14/2005 11:30:52 AM | patiently-waiting, please do not advertise people's names or profiles... it will get you a time out... as for all the other pompous stuff you were spewing... There is only some truth to what you are saying... Mostly because it is your supposed truth.. Quite blowing smoke up my azz and quite generalizing men. As far as I am concerned you may be of the male species, but you are no man.. you cheat on your wife.. that makes you nothing in my book.
People are more than capable of carrying on monogamy in a relationship... it is selfish to say otherwise.. but if you are a selfish person and do not wish to do so.. be upfront with yourself, your spouse, and with the people you are trying to convince.
The regulars at PoF are not idiots... we see through crap like you in a heartbeat. All of your long-winded posts may have boosted your ego and proved that you know your alphabet.. but it didn't change the fact that you are a person of no morals. You have my pity....
EDIT: you know what is sad.. you mention being raised by a amazing single mother... you should be ashamed... this would not be what she wanted... Trust me men with morals.. they don't treat other human beings like that... | |
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| Redmamma...
Posted: 10/14/2005 1:33:23 PM | Then why haven't I received any brow beating from any of the men. So far, nothing but total nods in agreement. You're forgetting one very important thing, your concept of monogamy, and the moral implications you place on it, are your own doing. You can't speak for the rest of the world, nor me for that matter, so keep that in mind.
Yes, they are long winded posts, but, after reading all the other short blurted posts, I was baffled at why no one posted anything that got into the actual reasoning behind a topic like "why men disappear". People post quick little snipets, and it didn't satisfy me.
I wasn't aware that it's a no no to post someone else's profile name, I was just trying to make a point, but of course, if there's no way to actually point out an example, then it's just "supposed truth" as you put it.
I find it astonishing, that despite my supposed truth, you're so quick to coin it as pompous. Why don't you ask men for themselves what they really think? I have no reason to embellish, lie, distort, whatever you want to call it. This is fairly anonymous, probably the only place people might be more willing to be truthful, and again, look what it got me - nothing but judgement.
I have no need to boost my ego, got over that one many years ago. I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything, rather, I'm posing real life scenarios that all or most of us have been through,
hoping that someone, preferable a woman might understand the context and say, "yeah I can understand what you're talking about" - not as of yet.
Lastly, if I'm a person of no morals because I've been unfaithful, what do you have to say about every other man or woman for that matter who engages in the same behaviour. Please don't pass that off on me or anyone else, when it's evident that rates of infidelity among men and women in North America are equal, right on par with each other. Think of how many thousands of people you're talking about, then tell me that ALL of them are immoral as you say. You don't see the pattern in that behaviour anywhere? Now tell me that monogamy is normal; explain why divorce rates are so high if monogamy is such an evolutionary perfection.
—Go rinse your hair out with that one. | |
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| Redmamma...
Posted: 10/14/2005 6:19:03 PM | I believe the same of them (your fellow cheaters) as I do of you.. it is a selfish, low-class action that speaks volumes of the person doing it. I never said I didn't see a pattern, but I could also quote murder rates to you.. don't you see a pattern there as well? To do something even if large amounts of people are doing it does not justify it. You will not get this woman to say "yes, I understand what you are saying" not because I lack understanding.. no, more~ that I am unwilling to believe "your" version of what "YOU" believe is truth.
I am so glad that you see nods of acceptance from the men... I think you see what you want to see. I have not seen posting from many men claiming you as the great and powerful OZ who finally has come forth with the burning answer to "men"~kind's prayers.
What I DO NOT understand is why you would get married at all knowing that you are an unfaithful miscreant... oh wait I mean a mere man who cannot control his carnal urges, much like a rutting animal. Did you notice that the word YOU showed up quite a bit... I( would assume YOU would recognize it.. since apparently we have been mislead and the hokey pokey is not what it is all about ... but rather... well YOU...know
Sometimes... the short simple posts are all that are needed to put the riff-raff in their place. | |
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ta da
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Joined: 10/3/2005
Msg: 117 | |
| patiently
Posted: 10/14/2005 7:32:45 PM | yes the divorce rate in this contry is high... we have lost something as a society.. our feelings and concerns of others... we all put ourselves above everyone else when we should see we all bleed red... i have been the reciver of cheting and have done it once..(hangs head in shame) after the two of us decided to end our relationship.. but we did rekindal and found a common ground.. our love and caring for one another.. i could not bare to see my wife harmed nor could she.. yet we both did and put the thrill of the chase and excitment of something new infront of the joy of eachother thill we saw that the joy would be over... NO.. we changed that and looked long and hard .. we saw just the negative before .. now we take time and see the positive in us... men and women do chet.. but not all do .. and the more people try to fix their problems together instead of running to anouther for that moment.. the better this world or atleast the world within your house will be.. several thing make us different from the beasts of this world and one of them is the ability to feel and truly care about others... i'm not sure what the world holds instore for me but i can share it with the one i love and she can share hers with me and together we can make it worth living ...
thanks..and god bless | |
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| patiently
Posted: 10/15/2005 11:09:45 AM | | Hey Ta Da .. I wanted to let you know because I have convered with you before.. that I try not to judge.. I say to each his own typically.. but patiently helped to evoke some feelings that I wanted to share... If you are trying to make something work after a mistake or know that what you did was wrong kudos to you.. this guy is a serial cheater and is saying it is "ok" because we are not meant to be with one person... I was calling him out on his stupidity....Take care and good luck... | |
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| Hi again Red..
Posted: 10/15/2005 11:57:11 AM | A serial cheater??? Wow, that's harsh, what's more, it's totally inaccurate.
Red, I'm sorry that I've offended you or anyone else for that matter, and I'm being completely serious. I had a good long overdue talk with my wife last night about how I feel, about how she feels etc.
My ideas regarding monogamy aren't exclusive to me or my wife, or the other people of the world who I share the idea with. Those people you categorize as "low class" are still people, just like you and me. Stop thinking of it terms of "cheaters sneaking around". Much of the time, it's a lot more obvious than that, for both genders, I've seen it go both ways.
In my case, I feel pushed aside, overlooked, and quite simply put, I'm bitter about it. I've explained this to my wife in great detail, in the past, and very recently. We have lost something in society as a whole - it's obvious. Red, you mentioned the murder rates - especially in the United States. I don't think you can make the same comparison between murder and "cheating". There are many countries that are part of the European union, who have a collective ideology regarding monogamy. Many of the people, both men and women in those countries don't practice it with the same fervor that us North Americans aspire to. At the same time, they are some of the most forward thinking, socially responsible nations in the world. In my opinion, they are what we should aspire to be.
All this aside, in your last post, I'm fully aware that it's not entirely "ok" feeling the way I do. If it was ok, more people would adopt it, despite the fact that many people in their gut, know that it isn't entirely "wrong" either.
We are animals, I don't think that's all we are, but despite all of the newest technology, the push forward for racial, sexual, and social equality etc, we are still primal at our core, and no amount of positive reinforcement, political correctness, or understanding will ever change that.
Our entire history is parasitic by design. What if I, or anyone else for that matter, is a fairly decent, giving, forgiving, and compassionate person. Do I lose ALL of my credibility because the notion of monogamy to me is absurd?
I find that really judgemental, in light of far worse evils in the world, you'd think people would be a little more forgiving of something that I see as a fixture of the human condition. Again, our species by nature isn't monogamous. I've tried to explain that one to a lot of different people, many nods in agreement from both men and women, but not always.
At the very least, I'm not into this for "approval", I'm just hoping that someone, anyone, will voice an opinion that isn't so emotionally charged, that it simply ignores the obvious. We're not entirely animals, but we're close. I saw a program once on the Discovery Channel, that followed a troup of Chimpanzees for months. They fornicate with different partners at will, even homosexual behaviour is evident in their social structure. When a mother chimp lost one of her young after he fell out of a tree, the next day, the entire troup of chimps sat where he fell, and watched over his body - weeping for hours on end. Finally, they had to move on, and the mother stayed behind for almost 3 days mourning his death. She finally had to catch up to the rest of the troup, and left her child where he was.
All this from "animals" and yet we share about 98% of their DNA, keeping in mind, that the 2% that makes us different, is marginal at best. We still display much of their behaviour despite that difference. Now try and tell me that we're above animals. We may be as you say, but not by much. | |
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| patiently-waiting
Posted: 10/15/2005 11:58:15 AM | | I have read this thread, I have read that book. I have a theory on the "disappearing" act that both men and women do with online dating. Lets face it there just isn't any investment. Its not like the old days when you met someone face to face and went from there. When you were set up by freinds or met someone at work. Its pretty easy to disappear when you could give a crap about the consequence because lets face it there really isnt one. There is no accountablity to friends or family that you will have to explain. I have always been a straight shooter and 98% of the time just tell someone if after the cliche coffee date (or 2 or 3) its just not there for me. But even I can think of a few times that I really didnt even want to put that much effort into it. I say if he disappeared before you flew to where ever he was....you probly dodged a bullet. It is a tough place, the dating world. Only those with a strong back bone will survive doing it for long. Just be happy with your life as it is and look at it as a fun thing to do, life will be much easier. | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/15/2005 12:10:46 PM | the key words there are when i dropped him off seems he either does have car or maybe he didn't want to be seen with you in his car any there is something wrong with a man oeing picked up should be him doing the driveing. any way if he does this kind of thing then he's probably not worth having anyway | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/15/2005 12:15:23 PM | | well shorty wouldn't think you would have those kind of problems fate doesn't want any to be alone for there is no fate being alone only loniness just haven't found the right one yet | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/15/2005 12:17:40 PM | Hi, I don't understand that either! Sounds like he's into you if you've been having nice chats and he bought you a plane ticket!!! I don't know what's wrong with him....but it's definately not you...it's all him! Guys can be like that sometime, kinda flaky or elusive. Ask him what his deal is...although he might try to avoid it, by making lames excuses or saying he's sorry, then ignoring you again. He probably doesn't know what the heck he wants!  | |
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| WHY do men just disappear??
Posted: 10/15/2005 1:00:13 PM | Just alittle background, I'm married, have two beautiful girls, used to have alot of friends who just happened to be women and over time just lost touch. Miss the female perspective on alot of things. Just here to meet and chat. Sounds like you found someone who met someone who he thinks is better. Unfortunate as that is, it happens. Too bad he's too much of a coward to explain the situation to you personally. I'm sure you're better off without him and good riddons to bad rubbish! Sorry for being blunt, but it's true. This gives men a bad name and that's unfortunate. No advice in the world can stop this from happening, just shrug it off and carry on. What else can you do? Don't be afraid to meet people, not all men are jerks. Nice guys all have to pay for the actions of a few. No apology from a guy can undo what is done, please don't be soured on the male of the species. Hope the next man you meet treats you better! | |
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| RE: hotblondecurves
Posted: 10/15/2005 4:38:50 PM | Your post is the most candid, yet honest admission I've seen to date. Not ass kissing here, but you're entirely right, there is no accountability for much - particularly in the dating world.
Men might just disappear to out of fear of inevitable rejection. I've done that, do it to her before she does it to me. It's childish sandbox politics, and I've hated myself for doing it. The only ammo I felt I had at the time (probably out of being young and scared) was being cold and indifferent.
We remember the times we've been the recipient of "getting kicked to the curb" sometimes without any reasoning or justification. —It sucks, BIG TIME, and it's funny, people say, "yeah, but I got over it" but we never really do.
cheers to all. | |
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