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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 5:52:31 AM | | I don't and as a German immigrant,..perhaps you would like to explain what you are getting at | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:03:14 AM | Aren't we the little instigator today!  As a German, I wish you a good day! | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 303 | |
| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:06:24 AM | All of my ancestors were foreigners at one time or another. When my pictish ancestors first landed in Scotland they were immigrants. There were others already there. They eventually learned to coexist. When my Sottish ancestors arrived from Ireland they were immigrants. They were rumored to have killed most of the picts at one time.
When my Mileasian ancestors arrived in Ireland from Spain they were immigrants and fought the current inhabitants, the Tuatha De Daanan. When my Bretone ancestors arrived in England they were immigrants and not the original inhabitants of the island although Britain was named for them. When my Anglo/Saxon ancestors arrived in England they were immigrants and did not co-exist very well at frist with the Bretones. My Jute ancestors find a quiet place to settle and stayed pretty much to themselves because that's what Judes do.
I think have established a pattern here, do you recognize it irishmary?
Chuck | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:17:12 AM | do all Germans have the right,.....you know what I'm getting at,....
That was your comment,..no?,...Nitt,...
How exactly does it make me an instigator to say no,...I don't know what your getting at please explain,......
you can make a statement but not be obliged to explain it's meaning,...
doesn't seem right to me,... and then declair me an instigator,...of what exactly? | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:22:22 AM | Please don't be offended, Marita.
I was talking about "sins of the father," if you remember...I don't think people should be ascribed the same ideals/positions as other past/present members of their group, simply because of the connection.
If you don't like "sins of the father," How about "guilt by association?" | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 306 | |
| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:26:14 AM | I hope my post above helped to explain that all existing people even in Europe, can trace their lineage back to a time when they were immigrants too.
Chuck | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:26:41 AM | | I personally have suffered due to that cute little slogan,...so your right I don't like it and here's the thing,...My father although alive during WW2 didn't commit any sins then either,... | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:33:18 AM | Marita, it's a phrase. If you're going to choose to consider it an affront because I used a phrase that you don't care for, there's really very little I can do. Personally, I don't think it's cute, and generally people suffer due to other people's choices and actions, not because of the existance of a phrase in the English language.
If you choose not to take the point I make and instead get wrapped up in four word choices that you don't care for, then that kind of derails any meaningful discussion. (Not to mention the fact that my use of them had absolutely nothing to do with you.) If that was your mission, it was temporarily accomplished. Congratulations. You were also affronted at my use of "instigator," but...
Sheesh!
And now back to our regularly scheduled program. | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 309 | |
| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:37:46 AM | Stop the world I wanna get off!
By the way, I care about both of you. We are all foreigners here. Let's quit playing "Head Games". (from the album of the same name)
Chuck | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:58:06 AM | spoken like someone who has never suffered first hand due to a "phrase",....
and thanks for dismissing anything I might add in the discussion because you feel I'm overtly sensitive to your insensitivity,....acording to you your phrase had nothing to do with me personally,...see how things get taken,...you have now 3 times come back as to why I should react differently and why I should not feel affronted,....and even seem to be insulted by my reaction,...and are getting insenced,...
now isn't that interesting,....
all of us are responsible for what we SAY,...and DO,.....and thinking first isn't a bad idea,....
and when something slips
(which it can by accident,...or accidentally on purpose,...no matter)
but when this happens,... instead of attacking the person who feels slighted ,...
an I'm sorry,...I'll be more thoughtfull,... can much better deflate the situation,....
that another personal affront,....
Try that some time,....
Now we can move on,....ok? | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 7:40:38 AM | marita...what natty was saying was a GOOD thing
he/she was trying to say that just because someone's ancestor did something bad,doesn't mean the person who is related to them is a bad.
at least that's what I think was meant....... | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:05:48 AM | to know the TRUE FOUNDATION of the USA/Canada (Native American) and show a bit more respect to them. I am all for law/order and keeping to the mainstream.
Irish Mary; with all due respect, I, of Native Ancestry, know my Canadian HISTORY well thankyou. I do live here, and I have travelled much of Canada.
The Natives hardly "allowed" the Europeans to invade Canada..LOL, they had no choice. In fact "Canada" isn't even our true name. The name Canada comes from the Laurentian Iroquois word kanata meaning “settlement.” Native culture in Canada is very much alive and well, and it is a part of our European history as well. We incorporate the two together, this is our way of life. However, the middle eastern cultures are very much different than white/native cultures.
I am all for law/order and keeping to the mainstream.The Middle Easterners should maintain their religion at home,like everybody else
Exactly what I am trying to say! 
It is difficult to discuss immigration & foreigners without sounding racist. That is not what I am trying to be perceived. The fact is that Canada, (I am not totally familiar with the US history, but I assume it's very much the same as Canada) was made, (by MADE, I mean our declaration of independance, our laws, customs, & way of life) by EUROPEANS, & Natives together who signed treaties. These were not made by Middle Eastern or Asian countries.
There are benefits to thier cultures in North America for sure! (Chinese Food..yum yum!, Arabic dance, music, & literature to name a few). My beef is when these cultures come over here and refuse to abide by our laws, or assimilate into our culture. The most prominent problem from what I can see is when they try to incorporate thier religion into our laws, and this just will not do. That is why recently the sharia law was abolished by canadian government.
I have no problem with foreigners, as long as they speak our language, abide by our laws, and try to assimilate into the Canadian/American way of life. I believe that speaking English should be a prerequisite for coming over here. | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:07:43 AM | Marita.....xxx take no notice love......
well Marita ALWAYS speaks out against RACISM so the "sins of the fathers "cannot be laid at her door.....personally or German collectively.
And I don't see that it can be equated with Latintango's stance
Germans have learnt the lesson well.I mean Germans as in Germany...here and now.
They have made EVERY EFFORT to make amends and today...in Europe....they are a beacon of fairplay.
As regards BP
Immigration has always taken place...yes....and you know where Europeans came from...??
Caucasia....you know where that is.............................................................??
Jutes came to England from Germany and Denmark......previously they were in.....Central Asia
...just one example......
Eagleeyes.....well I know that the NATIVE Americans/Canadians did not "allow"....but there you go .I do agree that immigrants should speak English and adapt to the USA/Canada rather than the other way round. If you have issues with Middle East or Chinese peoples.....what about the African Americans......what say you there and why??
Since you say....it was a done deal with Natives and EUROPEANS ONLY. | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 314 | |
| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:23:24 AM | I meant no disrespect. My point was that we are all immigrants, including yourself. Thanks for being kind to my Native American ancestors but they didn't all come here at the same time.
I was not trying to give you a history lesson, I was only giving you a refresher.
Chuck | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:29:11 AM | Eagleeyes.....well I know that the NATIVE Americans/Canadians did not "allow"....but there you go .I do agree that immigrants should speak English and adapt to the USA/Canada rather than the other way round. If you have issues with Middle East or Chinese peoples.....what about the African Americans......what say you there and why??
Since you say....it was a done deal with Natives and EUROPEANS ONLY.
Yes Mary, it was a done deal with Natives & Europeans. What do I have to say about African Americans? The same goes for them as the formentioned. However, african americans do not have the kind of cultures that middle eastern countries do. African americans speak english when they come here. They are a very peaceful people and are not trying to change our laws, blow up our buildings, or carry knives around as part of thier religion. I don't have "issues" with middle easterners as long as they abide by our laws and speak english! It isn't so much the race, but rather the relgion, (if it is state incorporated) that I see as the problem with foreigners. They have to understand when they come here that our religion & state are not together and things are not the same as in thier country. We are also not communist here. | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:31:35 AM | you know what's really funny is I agree with you eagleyes which is why the law prohibiting Anyone from posting a sign in english in the province of Quebec,..well I just don't get that,...
or kids being punished for speaking to each other in english in the province of Quebec,...
so we do have our own weirdness and inequality, to deal with,...
I personally hope someday we do,....
For goodness sake we had a leader of the country who's party advocated,...separation of quebec from Canada,...some people think that's treason,....
so I guess before we point fingers out we have to remeber to look at within first,.... | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:42:08 AM | | ^^ well that is true Marita, but the whole french/quebec thing is a whole new ball of wax. It was them that wanted to separate, and had they of been in a different geographical location we probably would have told them go ahead and good riddance, bit they still wanted to use our money, and they could make travel to the eastern provinces difficult for us. | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:50:55 AM | Eagleeyes....
African Americans do not have a culture like Middle Eastern countries do.
Thats true but niether do they have a European based culture and when you say..."blow up our buildings"....I assume you are referring to the Twin Towers...right?
I hate to remind you that a changes to the USA have been made to accomadate African Americans and their culture and violence and burning of USA and UK cities by those same people is known to have taken place as per their "peaceful nature" but I don't want to go that road further....just a reminder because of your post and your anti Middle East stance.
ALL people should speak STANDARD ENGLISH....in the UK....in USA....in Canada.
They should all assimilate and we should give them time.The kids do so quickly...adults may take longer.
France has inplement...no religious head gear and I think thats good.WE here are banning those rapper type hoods in shopping centres and crime has been reduced.
Middle Eastern/Asian people in the UK are known to have the LOWEST crime rate of ALL ETHNIC ORIGINS and thats official figures.And I hate to tell you who,has the HIGHEST rate of crime.I will leave it at that.Its not who you think,anyway.
Don't go charging 7/7 as a indicator either....statistics do not bear that out....... that was political incident. | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:58:20 AM | | Yes Middle Easterners have a low crime rate, BECAUSE, in thier countries they get thier fingers chopped off for thieving, and beheaded for infidelity!!!!! | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 320 | |
| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 9:00:25 AM | Well said IRISHMARY. You have good heart as I'm sure eagleeye does too. Fortunately, many of these things have to be voted on before they are changed. Things that truly offend will hopefully be voted down.
Islamic people are actually some of the most kind and peaceful people I have ever met. Islamic radicals should not be associated in any way with true Islamics. The radicals are very sick people. They do not practice their religion they way it was written or taught, they deliberately change their ideals to fit their self-pity so that they feel justified in terrorizing the rest of us.
Radicals are a small scared little group of people who will even come to the states to be educated and then bite the very hand that fed them their degree.
Chuck | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 9:08:20 AM | Well, we started off the thread with foreigners as worthless moochers and now we seem to be progressing to the point that some may be OK if they just assimilate quietly into the 'system'. By these standards, I don't quite understand why we're not all speaking the First Nation languages and perhaps doing a better job of respecting the environment.
Perhaps showing a little more respect for 'foreigners', especially in the current global economy where we all seem to be very much dependent on each other, would result in the US garnering a little more respect to the extent that the 'nasty' end of the 'foreigner' scale would be a little less inclined to feel that the only way they can make themselves heard is by creating mayhem. - And perhaps also encourage foreign governments to discourage the development of terrorism on their soil.
I'm sure the US feels that its immigration policies are advantageous (including turning a blind eye to companies that import illegal immigrants for low-paying unpleasant jobs - for example, meat packers). The other side of the coin is that the US has always raided other nations for their brains and skills. The European 'brain drain' wasn't a myth, and now the medical profession is actively recruiting the best educated medical professionals in countries like India. Perhaps 'outsourcing' is the agreement that the gov't had to undertake in order to bring in the skilled individuals needed here. | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 9:31:30 AM |
For goodness sake we had a leader of the country who's party advocated,...separation of quebec from Canada,...some people think that's treason,....
It definately wasn't the Liberals or Conservatives federally; and they are the only two parties who have been in power throughout 100% of Canada's history (the only exceptions is a variation of the Conservative Party--they started as the Consverative Party, then switched to Progressive Conservative, then back to Conservative Party).
However, neither of those parties advocate Quebec separation...unless something massive has changed.
You might be thinking of the Bloq Quebecois, who were breifly the Official Opposition, from 1993-1997. There is a HUGE difference between having the majority of seats and being the opposition. While I agree that it is weird to have them be the Official Opposition, it was about as much as defending Quebec's interests in Ottawa as much as it was about advancing separation (they had two reasons for being in power).
I'll end this now, as I usually go on about this forever (my record was four hours non-stop talking about it). | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 10:01:43 AM | the opposition is also a leadership position,...just not the big chai,...
but it came close to being that,..didn't it?
your rith though the subject makes me crazy too,...
so we'll move on | |
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| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 10:13:09 AM |
the opposition is also a leadership position,...just not the big chai,...
but it came close to being that,..didn't it?
Well, actually, since the Bloq only runs in Quebec, they'll never be able to get elected as the party of power. They'd need to run in about 100 more ridings outside of Quebec.
Basically, the only benefits of Official Opposition is a couple extra minutes in Question Period, more funding for research, etc. (they can't use it during election time, if they want to remain a registered party and not face charges). They have almost no say in decision making (unless it's a minority government, but this situation doesn't mean much for the Opposition, given all the possibilities).
No, Official Opposition status is like this (a totally fabricated story to illustrate my point): the gold medal winner gets the victory, millions of dollars in endorsements, be obsessed over by beautiful people that she/he desires, free travel, fame, name in the history book, etc. The Silver medalist gets the medal, a couple smiles, a tiny bit of money to pay for expenses, and a pat on the back.
But I have mixed feelings about regional parties like the Bloq...I can't say I have any desire to be around them though.
I'm glad they'll never be able to become the party of power...
I agree, it's time to put this one to bed (I've said my piece...thank you for listening). | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 325 | |
| foreigners in the usa
Posted: 9/23/2005 1:13:09 PM | I wish IRISHMARY would come back. I enjoy her company.
Chuck | |
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