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kce33
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 27 | |
| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 10:18:14 AM | i think that if any judge values his legal position, he is not going to go aginst a pre nup...
i have to laugh at these chics saying that a prenup is a sign of distrust that, its no different than signing a marriage license...
lets say that a man or a woman has 30 million dollars, they get married, and sometime down the road things go bad, they get divorced, is it fair to the person that has the 30 million dollars to have to give the other person half or more when they did nothing to help aquire it... i don't think so | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 10:21:31 AM |
i think that if any judge values his legal position, he is not going to go aginst a pre nup...
You'd be thinking wrong. This happens all the time. People think they have protection - and maybe according to the prenup, they do - but they come to find that prenups are shaky contracts at best that can easily be circumvented.
Look up the term "marital property." Read a detailed description of what can be considered under this idea and what it takes to move an asset from protected to "marital property." It's a lot less than you might think. | |
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kce33
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 30 | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 10:43:33 AM | KCE,
Same thing. Whether it's property or money, it's an asset. Money can fall under "marital property."
Let me give you an example:
You have a sizable monetary investment in a portfolio. You invest $300 into it a month. After you get married, any interest or profit realized from that investment can, and with a good lawyer, will be considered marital property.
Now, let’s say you and the wife have a joint checking account. Your pay check, like most these days, is cashed via direct deposit. You continue to write a $300 check every month for investment into your portfolio. As soon as you take a penny from that joint account and invest it into your portfolio, it is marital property. Upon divorce, she is entitled to half, including all money earned or invested prior to marriage.
In addition, keep in mind that a predetermined percentage or flat rate of spousal support written into a pre-nup will not stand up in court. | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 10:54:31 AM | YAm, I didn't know there were loopholes in prenups that big. I guess the word of warning is there - know what you're protecting and what you have to do to keep it protected.
For me, I have sizeable savings and investments compared to others my age. I started a retirement fund at 21 and pay into it monthly. I own a house (as well as a mortgage).
Now, I would want a pre-nup regardless of the assets the other person has going in to this. Basically, I'm not in this for the money and if he's got it, I want him to KNOW I'm not marrying him for it. And as a woman, I want to know that if the guy I'm with has less than me going in, if things don't work out, I don't come out of it with less than I went in with.
I just know now that anything I had before stays in a lovely little separate account and can never be invested in again as long as I'm with him. Thanks. | |
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kce33
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 33 | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 11:32:04 AM | KCE,
Each state has its own laws in regard to marriage, divorce and prenups. However, there is a caveat. Many judges will take into account legal precedent set in other states. Think about the gay marriage laws passed in Mass. and why there has been such a national uproar. The ruling in Mass. will be used as precedent to challenge those laws in other states. It will work in some cases and won’t work in others. Keep in mind, one judge who believes in a lawyer’s argument can set precedent and reconfigure the laws made by legislators through the judiciary process. | |
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kce33
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 36 | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 11:52:56 AM | | This can be a touchy subject for some as they may think its an act of not trusting each other. Speaking from personal experience I feel that a prenup is good before moving in with each other, never mind the marrage. Basically all I am saying is that you sign something stating what each other has before moving in together and that in the case of a break up because these things do happen, each party takes what they came with and anything aquired after moving in they split 50-50 unless its something they both agree is the other persons. I had a ex-fiance do a midnight move on me and clean me out of everything I own. Honestly don't know why she left as I thought things were good between us, so I can not tell you anymore on that one. Surprisingly it would be hard to prove what is mine or hers if I was in a court because we signed nothing and I have no receipts because I usually pay for things in cash. You seriously have no idea how hard it is to get back on your feet when evertything was taken. No food, dishes, towels, furnature, tv, and even a bed was left. To replace all those things at once is surprisingly costly. To go to court over it all is rather costly too and you may not get anything. Basically all I am saying is that if things are going great and you have nothing to hide then why would you not want to sign something just to say what is mine and what is yours. Here is an example for thought: say you both decide to move in together and buy a house together. Well if one party puts the down payment on the house then they should be intitled that money back first in the event of a sale because you both broke up. Because you both paid your half of the mortgage then you split the remaining sale 50-50. I think this all makes sense, because after all there is always a chance of a breakup. Theres my thoughts on it, you all have a good day now.... | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 11:55:24 AM | KCE,
If they know about it, it's not off limits. And a simple search by a PI will turn up any accounts anywhere in the world. I advocate stowing away cash. It isn't traceable. | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:01:47 PM | mrslucci:
Once again your short simple post works for me! 
OT: As I see my own marriage unravel and wonder ahead, I see that no matter how much we love someone at a given moment, things change over time and so do people. I don't think it's the negative thing that some think when they say that a pre-nup is pre-planning the end of the marriage or predicting its doom. The marriage may very well last forever, however, a pre-nup is just recognizing that it MIGHT not last forever. It's not pre-planning failure, but rather being prepared for failure should it happen.
I installed a water pump in my basement in the event of a flood. I don't plan to have a flood in my basement. I don't want a flood in my basement, but I'll be damn glad I have the pump SHOULD I have a flood in my basement.
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kce33
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Joined: 6/2/2005
Msg: 42 | |
| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:05:28 PM | kindheart
a friend of mine week on a wkend fishing trip and while he was gone his wife cleaned out the house, she even took the used soap and the remaing tolit paper on the roll, i mean she really cleaned house, all she left was his clothes and personal items...
but while he was at work, the kind fairy replentished everything including grocerys..
happy ending
lol | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:24:22 PM | i left it all behind and started my life over from scratch. i found someone that was well off. however, i fell in love with her and her alone for who she is and not what she has. i am the only person that she has ever lived with and know the laws in my province inside and out. in one month i will be entitled to half of her possessions including her home that is paid off in a year. i told her that i wanted a pre-nup before we become common law husband and wife.
she refused. | |
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nergal
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Joined: 5/12/2005
Msg: 44 | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:27:25 PM | I haven't read all the replies because there are so many factors that could change this question.
1st off, pre-nups have the stigma of always protecting the affluent one in the relationship. But after working in a law firm for 2 1/2 years, I know that is not always so. Lets typify the situation and say man has a bunch of money, and woman doesn't. The man could want a pre-nup for different reasons....protect his assets, make sure his wife is taken care of in more than just one document, provide for children from a previous marriage, etc. The woman, if she loves him will sign it, as long as it doesn't completely cut her off should something happen to him unexpectedly.
The woman in this same situation could also ask for a pre-nup. To prove to her soon to be parents-in-law she isn't after his money, to make sure his kids from a previous marriage are protected, or to make sure of something I (never having been in this situation) could not imagine coming up. It could also be to protect her children from a previous marriage...he might not adopt them, but loves them nonetheless and wants to make sure that they are provided for in case of a tragedy.
It is only one part of Estate Planning, yes in this situation they should both have wills and up to date powers of attorney, but people always think they have more time to deal with stuff like that. | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:37:29 PM | I'm divorced,there was no pre nup.My ex and i were very reasonable.He got the house,i took what i wanted.He helped me set up in my new place.Even paid the rent for me for 6 months.We share a cabin.i didn't want his money,i refused alimony as i make a good living.We share custody of our girlie.He gives above and beyond what law states he should.
However,i believe a pre nup is a smart way of handling things.I have insurance policies that will go to my girlie.My things will go to my girlie.Ian and i share a beautiful home but i will protect my girlie at any cost.It isn't that i mistrust my darling Ian,however life happens,things and ppl change.
Of course i'm never doin the married thang again,nopers never. No way baby.
Simple rule of thumb,take what u bring to the relationship,divide what u both accumulated as a couple.Sign and define.Then plan on a life together. | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:39:12 PM | In Canada if 2 people are married for x-amount of years and then divorce, whom ever turns 65,first then they are entitled to half of the other ex-spouse's CPP contributions made during the marriage.
I also think it has to do with who contributed more, but whatever, I do know that even after divorce you can lose 50% of your Canada Pension Plan money.
I think a pre-nup, regardless of anything else, is a good reality check for both. Just discussing what you have and what you'd do if this, that, or the other thing happened, ought to give both people a good look at how well they can work through an uncomfortable yet important matter.
It's also a good test of how you both deal with the whole idea of responsiblity and being realistic about the unpredictable, because no one knows the future.
That's why I think couples should get divorced 1st and then see if they really want to be married, pre-nups and all! | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 12:47:37 PM | i think that they r good, but it shall go for both partties, everything before the marriage is of they, i had a car, i keep the car, u got that one; but after the marriage is 50% each, oh here r ur $50 cents. | |
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| Pre-Nups before Marriage --- good or bad ?
Posted: 9/21/2005 1:14:02 PM | I can see this will be a hot topic
you folks rule !!!
my take.........
I have a fair amount of stuff I have earned in my life so far......
I have not met my "wife" as of yet .....
So what has she done to earn any of my property so far?
so if I got divorced why would she be entitled to it?
stuff we got during the marriage
sure split it up......
before the marriage
over my dead body
I hate that money has to be involved at all
I wish to people could be in it just for love
and leave the money out of it
it seems that when presented with the idea of a pre-nup
the other party always spits out the default answer..........
"lack of trust"
well.... I cannot trust my insticts on which way the wind will be blowing in "7 years"
how can I trust the intentions of someone that could be "a completely different person " in seven years"?
often when a spouse feels hurt for some reason the only way they can get back at you is
to take half your stuff
hey everyone
why don't we level the playing field and keep
money out of it?
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