| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 5:05:14 PM | Yes they would have! I’m proud of them. Married 45 years until my Mom passed away a few years ago. Financially secure, yup. It was a great childhood. Too bad so many didn’t have it as good as I did. I’m a luck one I guess.
I wouldn’t have passed the test so far in my life. Haven’t been able to build a good nest. So yes no children that I know about. I’m what you would call responsible. | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:14:52 PM | Slightly OT, but missed: Wasn't there a case in Quebec some years ago when a man went to court and got a legal injunction to stop his ex-girlfriend from having an abortion? I understand his frustration but forcing a woman to carry a child inside her body for 9 months against her will is bound to create an unhealthy atmosphere for any baby, even before it's born. And before Bunny or someone else points it out, she didn't obey the court order but went across the border and had an abortion performed in the US.
Now back On-Topic: I'm a social worker in a women's transition house and I see single parents every day, some good and some not as stellar. But the bottom line is that I can only be responsible for myself and my parenting skills (Which I admit are not stellar, so I have no children) and not for everyone's around me. If I see a parent who is potentially harmful to their child, I am required by law to report them to the correct government agency. I try to do everything I can to help educate and support every parent I come into professional contact with, single or not, but that's all I can do. I may not like my government at times, but I elected them so I have to have faith in them to protect my interests. But the government does not own me or my body and as long as I can survive without taking government subsidies and support, they have no right to give or dent me permission to reproduce. The fact that I chose to remain childless is probably ironic proof that I might make a better-than-average parent. | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:21:56 PM | Hey silverseven,
How you doin? I don’t want kids either so how about you and I just practice for a while.
You’re a nice voice of reason. Thanks! | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:29:04 PM | | Thanks for the invite, Snuggle, but I don't fit 2 of your practice-partner requirements: I'm only 5'4" and the only form of working out I do is bellydance (I hate the gym). I seem to fit the rest of the requirements though, so who knows? Wait a minute, two non-child-desirers getting together spells massive karmic joke in the making.....I'd have to be using a steel diaphram and you'd have to be wearing a kevlar condom just to make sure none of the Gods decided to throw us a curve..... | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:46:47 PM | LOL! Too funny! Hey you must have 4” heels around there somewhere? You’re grade A Baby! Send me an email. Who knows…
Warm up the belly! I’ll be watching for the crowd pleasers (a previous post by you).
I’ll work on the Kevlar if you start welding. | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 6:50:34 PM | No wonder I’m single!
No Comment!
As IF these scenarios you mention are the majority, LMFAO. Firstly, the women who go to Sperm Banks have the $$$$ to do so; the means to support a child often much more effectively than many couples; many COUPLES go to sperm banks due to sterility on the man's part; they have CAREFULLY thought out their intent on getting pregnant and do so via WILLING sperm donors who, via anonymity, give these people the chance to parent.
As for the women (girls) who trap a man, that is a sick practice and more often than not it's a foul cry from the nitwit who failed to cover his ding-dong during a tryst. Yet it does happen, and it is the MAN'S responsibility to ensure that HE is adequately protected, despite her declarations that she is 'on the pill' or whatever method she says she employs. Just like a person who gets AIDS from someone else, they hold a portion of accountability unto themselves, as it is not only our right to protect ourselves from debauchery, but it is our obligation to do so as well.
Licencing is another way for the government to make $$$ on human condition and it is inherently unconsititutional and unenforceable from a practical and administrative standpoint. Forcible sterilization has proven in the courts to be unconstitutional as well, as it is a direct assault on a person's autonomy. It is an Orwellian concept, fiscally irresponsible, and totalitarian in concept.
If you wish to be part of a society who employs such a machevellian ideal, then China is always looking for interpretors. | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 8:39:23 PM |
3. Completed Childbirth and early childraising courses supplied by the Government
4. Proof of good environment to raise a child ( I.E. No crack houses for baby Timmy )
I'm all for these two!!! | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 9:54:41 PM | mikedanger: (ooooooooh, danger, ooooooh, oooooh!)
Your response is a lot of accusatory, distracting bullshit:
There is no "tongue-in-cheek' in the first post here. And I couldn't be the
ONLY subsequent poster to mis-read killjack's intent! he's sayin there's too many bad parents in the world. because he did not say such a thing ANYWHERE.
Here is why, for your education, you soft-headed dupe of the right, this is racism, classism, and tantamount to economic slavery.
1. Minimum 1 year relationship
This is only the least onerous of these stupid ideas. Sociologists and economists will tell you, and you could bother to find out, that with the social disruption caused by low economic status, family relationships are more dificult to maintain. Strike One
2. Mat leave available at your place of work / Partner with minimum income of 60k/year
This should be patently self-evident. Requiring financial stability and work-supplied maternity leave is out of the reach of many millions of people who live from paycheck to paycheck, and is also no guarantee of proper childrearing skills and concern. Both can be checked with a minmum literature search. Strike Two
3. Completed Childbirth and early childraising courses supplied by the Government
Require still more time of those who must work 2-3 jobs to reach the economic standards proposed? People whose education has already been eroded by choked-off public education funding? Strike Three
4. Proof of good environment to raise a child ( I.E. No crack houses for baby Timmy ) By whose arrogant bureaucratic standard? How vaguely oppressive and racist can you be? "Good"? "Proof"? "Environment"? "No crack houses"? Actually, I bet you really can be more vague, based on what I see here! What about the rich who don't give a GAWDDAMN about children but who qualify under your 'rules'? Strike Four?!?!
Go warm the bench. As I said before, a GOOD public education is the best way to reduce or prevent the social problems of child abuse, unwanted pregnancies/children, rates of abortion, poor prenatal health care, fetal alcohol syndrome, family abuse, divorce, and so many other related problems in society. Better educated people have better lives, and pass these benefits on to their children. Period. This is the primary reason the right doesn't want public education to continue.
We need real, egalitarian population control and better approaches to child raising for all. This high-tech, racist, bureaucratic, wage slavery, oppressive idea is stupid. As such the oligarchy must love it.
David | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 10:01:51 PM | Slow down, David. The quickest way to get a post deleted is to throw some name calling in the mix.
Although I agree with most of your response, I have to point out that:
Better educated people have better lives, and pass these benefits on to their children. Period. This is the primary reason the right doesn't want public education to continue.
is completely inaccurate. That sounds like you're saying that educated people never do drugs, or abuse their children.
Am I reading it wrong? | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/23/2005 10:19:34 PM | Ah, Picky, I made a valid generalization and you stated an implied absolute, "never". What are we, incompatible signs?
Thanks, at least, for your agreement. Maybe the stars are wrong.
 <---------astrologically neutral emoticon
David | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 7:40:23 AM | Fist off kiddo, I never said the majority now did I?
I love it when, faced with an opposing opinion, one resorts to patronizing instead of legitimate debate.
Still waiting for the Stalin and Hitler explanation from you. And thanks for stealing my China comment.
I posted that already.....go back and read up on it. Furthermore, my apologies for 'stealing' your China reference....I wasn't aware you trademarked the argument.
I see you employ an oral contraceptive, open your mouth and what guy would want a piece of that? Seems to work for you eh.
That is flamebait, and I'll not respond to your lower-form of intelligence. Doing so would only insult mine.
You don’t understand what I’m saying but I’m good with that. Lets just agree to disagree.
That's the beauty of debate, agreeing to disagree. I do understand your argument, and I think it's bunk.
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 11:53:48 AM | dear kotex:
for once i must apologize. he did not say anything about sucky parents, i merely read it that way. i was wrong....
however, i am also on record as saying his method of correction WOULD NOT WORK, (my own son is an "unwanted" child) but, the classes would be a very good thing... in rebuttal to what you've already said, if they don't have time for a class, where they gonna get the time for a child? | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 12:25:40 PM | | I wrote a thread on this topic, It is callled "here is something to get you thinking". There are so many good parents out there but yet there is also a lot of parents that could care less about there children! I think it is really funny how for alomost everything else in life you need a license but for the most inport thing that you will ever, I mean ever do in life you don't need to fill out any forms or pass any tests. I love my chuildrem more than anything, and I would never ever do anything to harm them and I would do everything I could to protect them from danger!!!!!! | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 3:19:14 PM | Hey, Tash:
Obviously you had a proper upbringing in a favorable environment, you have at least a reasonable education, and you have good instincts (or you got lucky). Sincere congratulations to you, your family, community, etc. But millions get none of what you have--instead, generations of poverty, drugs, single parent (99% the mother) homes, violence, ignorance, and on and on. So what I said still appies: a proper free public education for all. And this helps so many more things, as well. It is like bright warm sunshine after a harsh winter.
David | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 3:35:15 PM |
1. Minimum 1 year relationship
2. Mat leave available at your place of work / Partner with minimum income of 60k/year
3. Completed Childbirth and early childraising courses supplied by the Government
4. Proof of good environment to raise a child ( I.E. No crack houses for baby Timmy )
1. and what happens when that relationship is 6 yrs old and they hate one another?
2. Leave is available all all work places, if not, it's discrimination/ Even making 60K a yr will not prepare you for a child.
3. Kids do not come with manuals. They are all different.
4. It doesn't just take a good environment- more so, it takes patience, love , commitment and nurturing | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 4:13:39 PM |
Proof of good environment to raise a child ( I.E. No crack houses for baby Timmy )
This already exists. If this is the environment and comes to the attention of the authorities - little Timmy is removed from the home and from his parent's custody. | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/24/2005 6:59:16 PM | | .... but simply offering a free education doesn't DO anything (even a GOOD free education) if the kids won't take the time to learn, which they won't, 'cause they're kids, so they need to get reinforcement at home, which means they need good parenting, which brings us right back to the question of parenting classes.... | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/25/2005 1:06:27 AM | | Actually SoTexGuy, I had a really sh*tty childhood, drugs alcohol abuse you name it, almost everything bad that could happen to a child happened to me. My lil sis was the favorite child, and I was a **** up, and still am considered it. (sorry to put it that way but really that the only way to put it.) BUT... it taught me what not to do as a parent. I swore when I had children, that I would do everything in my power to make their childhood happy, and for them no to look back at their childhood and cry every time that they think of it. I very rarely talk to my mother, I talk to my dad 1 a week or so, he has changed a lot and he is making an attempt, my mother only sees her grandchildren if I ask her to see them or worse I have to bring them to see her. This is disgusting in my eyes. My dads parents my daughters great grand parents adore their great grandchildren and try to see them as much as they can, and I bring them to see them whenever I can. I just want my children to have better family values than I was taught (even though I am doing the opposite of what I was taught...lol) Family should be there for you no matter what, and I will teach my girls that and I will show them that too!! | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/27/2005 4:56:35 PM | bambi,
This proposal would obviously not prevent all bad parents from having kids - there's always some way for somebody to slip through the cracks. It would reduce the number of bad parents though and that would be good.
Also, 60K? Come on, the average US household (generally more than 1 income) is like 43K. Having a "partner" making that kind of money by themselves would probably put them in the top 20% of earners, probably even higher. Maybe they meant 60K Australian or something. Set the minimum at 1.5*poverty or something.
This would end up reducing the birth rates of the poor and minorities, but really this is about: is your right to have a child more important than that child's right to a good home?
Other than that, not a bad idea, except it isn't medically practical. If it was, and it was free and conveniently reversible with no side effects, I know a lot of people that would go for it. I don't like the idea of the government forcing people to do it, but I think a lot of people would volunteer, if it was nothing more than a long term birth control. You might even get the desired effect just allowing people to do it voluntarily, or you could disallow them from getting AFDC at any point in the future if they don't go for it. | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/28/2005 1:20:19 PM | I just keep wondering how we could expect the politicians to do a good job of deciding who is 'qualified' and not so qualified' to do the insanely hard job of parenting.
I mean look at our world today, do we really wanna give then something else they can **** up??
And in the grand scheme of things, money really wont make a shit of a difference. It's all about love and consistancy and nurturing and all that happy crap and money cant buy love.....it might make the diapers smell less cuz we can afford a diaper genie but really ...... | |
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| License to have children
Posted: 9/29/2005 12:57:43 PM | my partner doesn't make anywhere close to 60k a year and we manage to provide for my 9 month old baby. it's all about sacrafice.
throughout my pregnancy, i read every book i could get my hands on. that help a little but as stated earlier every baby is different. i don't think classes and tests would help a whole lot. also, passing a class to get a license doesn't make someone a good parent. i passed driver's ed and my driving test the first time around (with high scores i might add), but i don't drive as well from day to day as i did when i took the test. in the same respect, anyone could take the class and learn what they need to in order to pass the test and then be lazy parents.
i think it's a good idea to have to take classes when having a baby but that doesn't make people be good parents. if the love is there they will be good parents with or without classes. | |
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char66
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Joined: 8/28/2005
Msg: 75 | |
| License to have children
Posted: 11/7/2005 10:36:01 AM | just a quick note to this thread....everything tash says is tru ...i kknow her mom and she is not a very good mom..
keep up the good work tash...u know i am always here for u...always....
your other mom
char
p.s. u r an awesome mom and friend/daughter | |
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