| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/7/2005 5:17:36 PM | Whats with all these childless people responding? Isnt this the single parent's forum? huh?
Takes a village to raise our children? OR...victims of crime responding.
Besides, so many bad parents that shouldn't be parents, it couldn't hurt to
get advice from some level headed people rather than a bad parent. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/7/2005 5:29:30 PM | Lazyboy... do us all a favor and PLEASE continue to stay out of the gene pool.  | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/7/2005 6:33:12 PM | ^^^and please, you, do humanity a favour and stop breeding.
Verrrry constructive. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 12:37:58 AM | @housekitten
>I find that it's better to be alone then in a destructive relationship
Why don't you mention the idea of fixing that relationship? Teach the kids to work out problems rather than run from them?
>I really feel if you are a good parent it doesnt matter
Who's the judge of that? | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 12:47:37 AM | Quoting mtndawn78:
"Studies have shown that children without father's do much better than those with no mothers... but I do suppose that children with BOTH do best of all. Considering the fact that the relationship between the parents isnt abusive or disfunctional. But how often does that happen? I mean REALLY...
I think children do better out of toxic relationships, regardless of WHO thier caretaker is,
as long as they have the love and nurturing care that they require.
Whats with all these childless people responding? Isnt this the single parent's forum? huh?"
^^^^^
What studies have YOU been reading?? The correlation between fatherlessness and crime is only one of many FACTS that are known and accepted by academia and those who really give a damn.
How about these ones:
In 1983, the US Department of Health and Human Services found that 60% of child abuse is inflicted by mothers with sole custody of their children. Almost all of the rest comes from other members of her entourage, especially boyfriends and second husbands.
85% of all children that exhibit behavioral disorders come from fatherless homes (U.S. Center for Disease Control);
90% of all homeless and runaway children are from fatherless homes (U.S. Bureau of the Census);
80% of rapists motivated with displaced anger come from fatherless homes (Criminal Justice & Behavior, Vol 14, p. 403-26, 1978);
70% of juveniles in state-operated institutions come from fatherless homes (U.S. Dept. of Justice, Special Report, Sept 1988);
85% of all youths sitting in prisons grew up in a fatherless home (Texas Dept. of Corrections 1992).
------
If you're going to go spout your liberal verbiage, BACK IT UP! The opinion of an obvious jaded individual isn't worth the select anecdotes it's based on. Oh, yes, very jaded: (ie. "...Considering the fact that the relationship between the parents isnt abusive or disfunctional. But how often does that happen? I mean REALLY...") | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 12:52:37 AM | ^^^ to her credit, many single mom's live in poverty with their
children because the fathers are dead-beat. Although it could
be argued that she PICKED the slime-ball. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 2:45:49 AM |
^^^and please, you, do humanity a favour and stop breeding.
Verrrry constructive  | |
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Anneri
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Joined: 8/25/2005
Msg: 108 | |
| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 3:39:44 AM | I think children need positve male role models in their lives, especially sons but that can come from a relative or a freind not just from a father.
In an ideal world i would have wanted my husband to be part of my childrens lives despite our marriage not working out but things do not always work out as we want and that didn't happen, but i have great male friends who my children love and respect. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 5:32:09 AM | ^Gotta ask though, and don't take this the wrong way:
Do they take your children camping ? Do they play ball with them or show up at the little league games ? Do they sit them down and give them advice from a male point of view ? I most certainly would agree that this is a most beneficial arrangement but it is not optimum based solely on what you just said. Male friends of yours to provide a good role model to observe is far, far better than nothing so don't think I'm giving you any kind of grief here. I'm just saying that unless they have a role model such as this who is active and participates in their lives as much as a father would would also be far superior.
Now this isn't meant to knock you but to state for the record that a father can't be replaced by one's friends no matter how good of people they are.
Of course, your situation may well be highly understated in this regard but I'm only commenting based on what you wrote is all. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 5:36:32 AM | @mtndawn 78
What ? What studies ? Show me a study that says anything of the sort. Fatherlesness is recognized as one of the great ills plaguing our society and it is eroding it. If that was meant to say that mothers are better than fathers (which appears to be the only reasonable explanation for you to say such easily refuted nonsense) I'm quite certain that you have been reading some material from a highly suspect source such as the offices of NOW.
That one came direct from your poop-chute madame.
Oh, and by the way : Since you aren't an elected official, please, don't comment on anything going on in the country. Only elected officials are allowed to talk about that sort of thing. Not to mention that since you aren't a father, you probably shouldn't be answering this one either. Just applying your own logic there. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 5:37:36 AM | tick
he can learn from how he deals with others, how he deals with his wife, how he deals with disageements, etc, etc.
why can't he learn that from a mother or anyone else who's taking care of him?
should a man deals with others be different than how a woman deals with others?
should how he "deals" with his wife be different than how a woman "deals" with her husband?
should a man deal with disagreements in a different manner than a woman deals with them?
???????????
Got...it's not "fatherlessness" that is the problem it's income.(one parent less income)
and generally associated with low income neighbourhoods.
That's something that's been proven and you can find studies on the net | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 5:45:25 AM | Wrongo Blu...
For every study you can pull up about how father's aren't necessary because it's really a money issue I can pull one up that shows you that no, actually, male hormones do make men different from women. That stuff goes along way in fact when it comes to teaching young males how to deal with said hormones properly. There's absolutely nothing "proven" about low-income and fatherlesness except for a link. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 5:55:18 AM | "There's absolutely nothing "proven" about low-income and fatherlesness except for a link."
It's way more than a "link". Chapters and chapters in university text books sitting right here on me shelves...
usually the studies that "prove" children need both a father and a mother have a foot in religious funding....
for the record...I'm not suggesting that children don't need a father any more than they don't need a mother. However, I am firm in the knowledge that it is not a requirement for a healthy upbringing to have both or either. Children can grow up just as happy and well adjusted if they're brought up by a relative or whoever (of either sex) because gender isn't the key. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 6:20:36 AM | My children have a father. The oldest one refuses to see him and the other two half the time don't want to see him. They are happy and adjust to having just mom around. Their whole life I am the one that was their for them. He was off drinking/drunk or running around with his friends. He refuses to pay child support. He quiet his job and now has a cash only job so it can't be proved. Funny the kids are finding we actually have more money without him.
Father Figure? They have plenty of those. Their friends dads include them in their activities if they are over. They treat them like they are their own child. I have fellow employees that hang out with them. One even went to a dad and me activity with my daughter.
What my daughters have now is a lot better than what they did. A father that abused them emotionally and physically. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 6:46:06 AM | | I am sorry for your child. But I never imagine without my dad. I can recolect the years when he was not near to us. Do to his work ofcourse. Because my mother and dad were working in different far away cities for some years in a different country. He usued visit us on some weekends, But I remember waiting every saturday morning for my dad to come. :) And go to school dejected. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 10:24:42 AM | Here is the deal, just like poverty, child molestation, teen pregnancy and a myriad of other social woes... the single parent family is hard wired into these children. They are taught the acceptibility of trashing marriage. They are instructed by our actions that mom or dad is worthless or not needed. They grow up with warped values, and it spreads like a disease. Our children will seek as adults what they are taught to seek.
One man's opinion. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 10:50:52 AM |
They are taught the acceptibility of trashing marriage. They are instructed by our actions that mom or dad is worthless or not needed. They grow up with warped values, and it spreads like a disease. Our children will seek as adults what they are taught to seek.
Although I am not married, I would never model or teach my son that marriage is something to be taken lightly or a bond to break without thoughtful consideration. His dad is never said/alluded to/or in any other way shown to be worthless. Depsite his lack of financial and even emotion contribution, my son is encouraged to see him. When he was potty training he was told how happy daddy would be to hear he peed on the potty. After his haircut today he said "i show daddy my haircut" and I said "yes, daddy is going to think you look so handsome".
Being a single parent is not the ideal, and I intend to instill that value into my son. I also intend to teach him the nature of human beings in that we can make mistakes and we become better people by learning and growing in life, through the good and bad. Also, the importance of empathy and compassion for other people who have lives different from his own. I understand your point and obviously there are a lot of single parents who are teaching/modeling these things. However, dont lump us all into these stereotypes. Many of us have learned a great deal through this process of being single parents and go on to raise great kids. | |
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mogrl
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Joined: 5/29/2005
Msg: 119 | |
| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 11:10:41 AM | | My boys do not need their father.Every time he gets in to their lifes they end up hurt,he makes promises he never keeps,forgets birthdays ect,blah blah and then as the mother i can never badmouth him but only wait for the kids to see him for what he is.Well the day has come and now my youngest son has finally figured out what his dad really is.A big fat loser when it comes to being a parent.His older brother knew it all along.Yes right now i am very bitter,usually i couldn`t care less about what he does . | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 1:29:15 PM | And those that attack their former spouses: Why did you pick her/him? He
was good enough to marry, good enough to have a child with, good enough
to have another child, and good enough to have yet another child.
These parents didn't just grow another personality over night. Whatever
the problems I totally believe that you've contributed to those problems.
Anyway, it's your children - you will know the results of your parenting soon. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 1:37:12 PM | Blu:
It's far from religious groups that see fatherlessness as a problem. Did you not just see the statistics listed above for that matter ? If you can dismiss the need for a male figure in a life this easily, why not do the same with the mother then ? Why not just have kids raised by the state ? There's no psychological angle to it in that case. Stick 'em all in dormitories and have it all fed to them by the book.
As to your "proof" that it's exclusively the result of low income earnings and there's no cause to think that fatherlesness plays a part in poor outcomes in children's lives, there's absolutely no such thing. There are plenty of studies that prove income plays a large role in all this but it's not the one and only determinant. If it was proof of any sort then ALL low income earners would be turning out hooligans.
But here, consider this then : What do you think would be the result if we had an epidemic of motherlesness ? Are you seriously going to try and tell me that there would be no ramifications if this were the case ? I highly doubt you would be so inclined to dismiss the role of the mother quite this easily. We're talking about the psychology of sex here so you can't very well tell me that a father figure has no role in how the child develops psychologically in this regard unless you are willing to apply the same reasoning to the role of the mother. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 2:37:44 PM | | I think it is important for the child to have his father in his life. Although there are a lot of "dead beat dads" out there that don't care. I have been devorced for 2 1/2 years and I have always had my son at least over night 2 nights a week and every other weekend. I think all others things need to be set aside as far as the kids go. Even if the parents don't get along thats no reason for the kids to suffer I think they need both parents equally, even if the parents are not together. I think it is sad that so many dads wont have anything to do with there kids, and that there are a lot of mothers that wont let willing dads see there kids for petty things that have no involvment with the kids. I know not all, but some of single mothers use their kids for leverage or as a tool to get what they want. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 7:55:41 PM | | I think that children need both parents in their lives. But then again my ex wants nothing to do with our child. | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/8/2005 9:10:49 PM | Yes.
They all need a father.
Without one, they would not exist.
Direct the focus on the poor decision-making of the parents.
The question itself and the thoughts reveal the shallowness of many - and short-sightedness.
Only fools rush in...
from one fool to all of you fools! | |
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| Do children need a father?
Posted: 10/9/2005 3:13:48 AM | Poverty and low-income have been cited as possible reasons children have problems in a single parent home. That's entirely plausible; however, the fact remains that even if you adjust for factors like income, race, etc. there is a definite correlation between fatherlessness homes and poor pyschosocial/emotional development. Fact.
Mind you, it's also a fact that mothers are responsible for the majority of child abuse. Fact.
One person mentioned University text books supporting her claim - I wonder if she's considers just how University texts are choosen (by faculty) and how academia is typically slanted in these areas.
What does a child 'need', really? Food, clothing and shelter - if you've heard of Maslow's hierarchy then this is all very familiar to you. When it comes down to it, a child doesn't need a mother or a father or really anything (but how is a child like that going to turn out?) What a child DESERVES is a father and a mother who can demonstrate mature behaviour, set boundaries, comfort them - really, a pair who are able to individually, and together, put their own selfishness aside for the sake of providing a good loving home.
That's the biggest problem today, I think. I'll admit I'm not objective in this as I tried to work things out with my STBX despite her constant partying and lack of support while I'm in Univerity and find myself disappointed today that she is content with being a part-time mother (I get my son every weekend, plus days when I take him to appointments (ie. doctor, vaccinations, ...) or she happens to want to go out). In the end, she said she had to take care of herself, because she had a lot of potential and she was quite happy with how she was doing (always a constant stream of me, me, me ... I can only shake my head and laugh).
I really question a society that seems to think having a uterus automatically someone makes one more capable to parent... that's about as fair as saying that my higher level of education compared with that of my STBX is sufficient reason that I should have sole custody of my son (though, in reality, this would increase the odds of my son attaining such a level of education substantially, not to mention the associated increase in income potential, etc. associated with that).
Men and women ARE different - that line is being diminished but the pysiological difference will always dictate that a difference exists. And for a child to observe the dynamic of those differences and how they may coexist side by side in a marital relationship is perhaps the greatest reward for those who live in healthy two parent households.
So when blu eyed gal says this:
-should (how) a man deals with others be different than how a woman deals with others?
-should how he "deals" with his wife be different than how a woman "deals" with her husband?
-should a man deal with disagreements in a different manner than a woman deals with them?
The answer to all three questions is No - but the fact of the matter is that they WILL be different. Men and women are not the same, not by a longshot, and this is not by reason of some latent patriarchical bent modern society retains (which is itself a mere symptom... a manifestation of how the differences played out under past conditions). Men and women deal with situations differently.
In the end, though, what a child really needs a good support system if he/she can't have the ideal situation he/she deserves in a society where true poverty and struggle aren't endemic (when's the last time any of us worried about having clean drinking water?) Really, one might argue that it's the wealth our society has that causes all these single parent homes... it's easy to be selfish if the recriminations aren't so bad, no need to work out differences - just walk away.
- sigh - It's too late at night and my rant is too long. | |
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