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hi
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Joined: 2/13/2004
Msg: 51 | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 1:58:07 AM | the US isn't doing the best they know how. that's just ignorant.
the US is doing what will best suit the few in power at the expense of the many.
seriously. if they wanted to fix the racism problem in the US, they'd look no further than Great Britain. there aren't too many race riots over there, are there?
how about gun control? want to fix it...look north. up in Canada there are far fewer gun-related violent acts than in the US. if a solution was really wanted, it's pretty easy to find.
international relations...let's see...how can we fix that little problem? how about a "no more raping and pillaging" law? that might do it.
if i didn't know how to fix a car...and i wanted my car fixed...i'd either ask someone who knew about cars and the problem my car was having...or i'd take it to someone who fixed cars as a profession. i wouldn't just open the hood and start pulling on hoses and banging on bits that looked like they might be out of place...
the same could be said about the government of the US and the attitudes of its people. nobody asked why the WTC was bombed...they just wanted to kill whoever did it...in fact, there's STILL no conclusive proof that Osama was behind it.
like Mr.R, i could rant for a few days on this. if the US public were to open its collective eyes and actually think about what's going on instead of following their masters along obediently baaaaing like good little sheep, perhaps some changes could be made.
for now, just go have another big mac. | |
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hi
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Joined: 2/13/2004
Msg: 53 | |
| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 2:03:44 AM | | i wouldnt **** abt the USA bec I dont ****'; | |
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hi
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Joined: 2/13/2004
Msg: 55 | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 4:13:34 AM | Easy there Sar!
Us 'Nucks have to remember a few things too. There's a differance between the people of America and The Government of the USA.
We also have to remember that there are some deep rooted culteral differances.
For example; Gun Control.
The Second Amendment is deep seated in American pride. The right to bare arms is something that is quintesentually important to a lot of folks down south. When it was implemented, it wasn't a bad idea at all. If the people are armed, they can defend themselves from all threats, both foreign and domestic. Some would say that the amendment was to make sure the government could never become a tyrany.
Unfortunatly, it hasn't helped. The US has effectivly been taken over through subversion, manipulation, and back room dealings. Their 2 party system is a joke and there's no way for them to do anything about it, short of a second revolution.
The sad thing is that the people will suffer when it all comes crashing down.
Right now, things a very bad. The US is out of friends, they have a sustained conflict going on on two fronts (althought Afganistan is mostly our baby now), and the resent storms have done more damage to their ecconomy than they are talking about.
I don't think anything can stop the fall of the American Empire now.
Yet, the people will suffer.
We can't blame those people any more or less than we can blame ourselves for the Spouncership Scandel. They didn't get any fair say.
The US is modern Rome, releat with all the trappings.
Greed, intolerance, and a drive to "take unto Rome that which is Rome's".
We all know what happened to Rome in the end.
NoSunShine, please understand that your typical Canadian migt vent about the US, but when we do so, we are talking about the global bully that your nation has become. NOT the individual people. We know that there's good people and bad across that boarder, just like here. I feel for the good people caught in this mess.
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 7:38:05 AM | | I have noticed, as I said before, living in Canada you ddo have to deal with alot of people putting down the states.......I love living in Canada but I also love the states but I don't see alot of Americans putting down Canadians and not because Canada is without fault...I personally don't understand why it always has to be a Candian vs American thing all the time and why when people find out your American they feel they have a right to tell you everything that they think is wrong with your country on a daily basis....I personally would never do that to someone who was visiting the states from another country. I will say one great thing about the states, I have found, is that people are sooooooo friendly I can't count the amount of times walking down the street in Chicago that people I didnt know would say hi to me just because.....anyway just had to put some thoughts in there | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 10:11:11 AM | Canada war participation:
War of 1812, World War I, World War II, Korea and Afghanistan.
Hmmm ...1 and Oh, 2 and Oh, 3 and Oh, 3 and 1, and outcome undecided.
5 wars for Canada compared to 16 for the US (14-2) plus 2 outcomes undecided. Not much to crow about there, eh?
In war there is no such thing as a "technical" win. You either win or you lose. If you are the aggressor and it comes to a draw, it is still a loss because you failed to achieve your objective. If you are a defender, it's a win because the aggressor failed to meet his objective reagrdless of what you achieve.
Better pray there's never a rematch on our first victory - we'd lose. But then if our leaders were smart, we'd capitulate and sue for peace and reparations. Turning our loss into a win. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 10:58:01 AM |
I personally don't understand why it always has to be a Candian vs American thing all the time and why when people find out your American they feel they have a right to tell you everything that they think is wrong with your country on a daily basis....I personally would never do that to someone who was visiting the states from another country.
I, unfortunatly, hear Americans putting Canada down all the time.
I currently work in tourism. We get more than a few loudmouthed Americans that act like total spoiled brats.
I also see more than a little anti-Canadian propaganda on American news. I don't have cable and strangely, I only seem to pick up American news. According to the States, our medications are unsafe, our drinking water is dangerous, and buying a Canadian made car will ensure you get a lemon.
Add to this that I have a brother out of work due directly to the softwood lumber issue, and yeah, I've got my back up a bit. Again, I don't blame the American people for this, but the national-political entity that is THE USA has got my personal ire.
In war there is no such thing as a "technical" win. You either win or you lose. If you are the aggressor and it comes to a draw, it is still a loss because you failed to achieve your objective. If you are a defender, it's a win because the aggressor failed to meet his objective reagrdless of what you achieve.
Better pray there's never a rematch on our first victory - we'd lose. But then if our leaders were smart, we'd capitulate and sue for peace and reparations. Turning our loss into a win.
First off... why is it that military strenght always comes up in these debates? I'm personally proud of the fact that Canada has never started a war or invaded a sovren nation. I'm proud of the fact that our troops are respected around the world for both their rolls as peace keepers and their outstanding field skills. I'm proud that we stood up and said NO to Bush over Iraq.
If the US was to invade Canada, it would be the end of the US right there and then. They couldn't hold 'Nam. They couldn't finish Korea. They've left, Somalia, Rwanda, Afganistan, and how many other conflicts for us to mop up? The track record is not good. Sure, they could roll across the boarder and occupy Canada in a matter of days (then the President can stand up and declair the war over and how great a victory it was). But how long do you think they could hold it? How do you think the rest of the world would react? How many occupying soldiers would die? How many things in the states would blow up?
Talking about Canadian vs US war is just outright stupid. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:02:37 AM | I truly wish that when people desire to express an opinion that contains factual information, that they would at least take the time and have the courtesy to ensure that they have the facts straight.
The Second Amendment of the Constitution of the United States of America DOES NOT guarantee the right to bear arms by all citizens, and I quote the actual article:
"Article [II.]
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. "
The intention of the Second Amendment is the right of the people to bear arms by representation of a regulated militia. Militiamen are citizen soldiers. Their intent is for homeland defense in the time of war, anarchy or outright tyranny. Nothing else.
Hollywood and to some extent the media, and to an even larger extent, NRA fuelled lawyers is directly responsible for the distortion of the Second Amendment.
The 2nd has nothing to do with the "South" since the Constitution was drafted long before the Civil War.
The US is not Rome. Rome was an expansionist empire. The US is not. The British had an empire, but it is only an empty shell now. The US is a country created from a revolution to escape external governing by tyranny and taxation. Rome was a tyrant and taxitor.
The middle eastern wars are a result of an economy and industry that is fossil fuel (oil) based and driven. It is an attempt to secure a future at the expense of the majority for the benefit of a minority.
If anything, the US is a prime example of how far wrong liberty and freedom can go and when it falls, so will Canada but not for the same reasons.
And as for Afghanistan, the Canadian presence there is less than 4% of the overall military force. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:23:53 AM | Canada did not "mop up" Somalia and we committed war crimes there. The US is still in Afghanistan. The US left Rwanda at the request of the UN and Rwanda was a British creation. Vietnam was started by the French in 1952.
Stupid as it may be, the US does have a contingency plan for invading Canada.
As for the end of the US for attacking Canada - wow! you sound a lot like a redneck with your response. Things blowing up there, soldiers dying here. The US plan is to seize infrastructure and Resources. Tanks in Vancouver, not likely. Much easier to blockade the harbour, block the Rockies by strategic bombardment and seal the northern and southern borders.
Basic seige tactics. Totally winnable with a minimum loss of life.
Reaction of the rest of the world - what could they do? Not like anyone is capable of engaging in a world war against the US. At least not since the breakup of the Soviet Union. Chances are, they'd be lining up to get some resources too. Are we not having problems with Denmark over Hans Island? Are there not other claims on the table regarding our "sovreign" North?
Military Strengths? Chew on this one:
Current Canadian Active Duty, Reserve, Militia and Cadet Strength: 149,700
Current US Active Duty, Reserve and Militia Strength: 2,650,000
Rule of thumb: 30% for combat effectives, 70% for support. Both Nations.
Me, I work in Strategic Research and I too hear from the loud-mouthed Yanks all the time. I also hear from loud-mouthed Canadians all the time. The rest of the world does like Canada but not as much for our demeanour, beer and love of hockey as you want to believe.
I'm also a veteran of Canadian AND US military service. So, I can speak.
And our wilderness water, once good, is no longer so.
The main point of my response to you is, if you are going to toss rocks at someone, be prepared to have some of them tossed back. If not, then use a little tact. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:29:09 AM | stebre, color me mystified...
You've just attacked what I previously said, but didn't show how any of my factual information is wrong. I did NOT say that the second amendment hadden't been twisted... I said it's a source of Cultural conflict. The obsession with the gun is one of the BIG differances. Look at how many people started screaming and yelling when the people of New Orleans were ordered to turn over their firearms. In Canada, that would have been the least of our worries at the time.
The US is not Rome. Rome was an expansionist empire. The US is not.
That's flat out wrong.
The US may not be expantionest in terms of overt territory, but they are wildy expantionest in terms of ecconomy. By your own admission, the current conflicts are about controling oil. We live in an oil based global economy. Thus, they are fighting for control of the world's economy.
Then there's Manifest Destiny...
(quoting from an artical)
Manifest Destiny
The term manifest destiny originated in the 1840s. It expressed the belief that it was Anglo-Saxon Americans' providential mission to expand their civilization and institutions across the breadth of North America. This expansion would involve not merely territorial aggrandizement but the progress of liberty and individual economic opportunity as well.
The term "Manifest Destiny" is still sometimes mentioned in Canada when the subject of Canadian-American relations is discussed. Some Canadians, in fact, still believe that the United States has never really abandoned its goal of fulfilling its Manifest Destiny by annexing Canadian territory.
Hehe, I got a snicker out of that last sentance too.
The point is, the US is based on expansionism. This is irrefutable. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:31:43 AM | I don't know where you get your information, but you seriously need to consider upgrading to a better source.
Great Britain where the number #1 crime is murder and the majority of them are race based and also where Neo-Naziism is on the rise.
The WTC was not bombed. And Osama did do it. Review the 60 Minutes, W5 and CBC Newsworld tapes of the Osama interviews and you'll figure it out, eventually.
As for sheep, no bigger pasture than right here in Canada, eh?
Go for some Red Rose? | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:42:15 AM | Ok, stebre, you've managed to prove that you aren't worth debating.
You're debate skills just aren't there. You've not adressed a single thing I've actually said (I made NO comment about Osama-9/11 connections), and have resorted to name calling repeatedly.
You're a hard core conservitive, that's obvious. There's also nothing anyone can say to change that and you aren't willing to discuss anything.
*shrug*
No skin off my cheeks.
I will simply re-iterate one final time that I don't have a problem with the people of America. There's good folks and bad folks, just like up here.
What I have a problem with is a bully nation that has attempted to impose it's own idologies on the rest of the world, who ignores international law, and makes for a lousy trade partner. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:42:21 AM | Mr. R.
*POOF* you are now officially mystified. Glad to see that you keep your sense of humour.
A truly Canadian trait.
The responsibility for proof is to the person whom makes the claim, not those whom refute, but I see your point (wanna play some "Catch-22?").
Firearms turnover in Canada - don't bet on it. There's a lot more firepower up here than most people realize and not all of it came from the US.
Ahhh - Economic expanionism - the true definition of the Manifest Destiny. You are right on, right on, right on, my friend.
Annexation - Don't forget the rest of Mexico too.
More than anything, I just wanted to test the depth of your waters (and you are definitely not in the shallows). Too many people these days have opinions with no base. Drives me nuts.
Call me a boat rocker, call me a nut, just don't call me late for dinner.
:)
/s | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:49:45 AM | You bastage!
:p
And here I thought I was gonna have to tie, gag, and mail you down south!
Just for the record:
Firearms turnover in Canada - don't bet on it. There's a lot more firepower up here than most people realize and not all of it came from the US.
Oh yeah, I know about that. Infact there are MORE guns in Canada per capita than there are in the States according to some studies.
I'm just saying that if Vancouver's big shaker comes, we wouldn't have the same level of public out-cry if our Government requested that firearms be turned over during rescue opps. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 11:59:57 AM | Mr. R.
Sorry. Was responding to a post by someone else. (Knew I should have used a salutation at the top.)
Name calling? Other than the comparative name of "redneck, which I admit could have been expressed less personally, I don't think I've been personal in my attack. If you do see it that way, I apologise.
Hard-core conservative? Me? Hell no. I'm a former combat soldier and marine and a total cynic. Having been on the cutting edge for both nations I have earned the right to question anyone and everyone and to discount 90% of responses simply because I've experienced first hand the end results of policies, foreign and domestic.
The road to hell IS paved with good intentions.
Oh no! Not the dreaded free trade dragon... nooooo... Both Canada and the US are highly protectionist when it comes to free trade. No if's, and's, but's, or maybe's. The Lumber Issue could have been avoided if the Barons up here would have raised the prices rather than get caught volume dumping at barrel bottom prices. Why is it we do it for Gas and Natural Gas, but not for wood?
As for not addressing a single thing - if you say so. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 12:07:18 PM | We were suffering from post lag.
You were behind me a post or two there.
I didn't realize you were playing devil's advocate until you fessed up there and was responding according to what was being said.
So, no harm, no foul. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 12:10:28 PM | Mr. R.
Point made. Although given the level of awareness over voter reform in the last election, I would think that the response would be somewhat "dubious".
Was a pleasure debating with you, but must now return to work.
Enjoy your day,
/s | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 12:10:33 PM | | Mr R thats too bad that you hear Americans putting Canadians down all the time maybe you just have some bad ones I was born and partially raised in the states and never heard Canadian bashing and when i was living in Las Vegas recently I can really say I heard no Canadian bashing, thats not too say it doesn't exist because I don't know and see all :) I just think its sad that I very rarely go a day without hearing something negative about the states...although I love it here I'm not asking (unless I'm in the forums) to hear people's negative opinions thats all...... | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 12:43:53 PM | anima bella, yeah, I understand your point. It's not cool hearing the same negitivity on any subject. Unfortunatly, there just happens to be a lot of angery Canadians with no real way to vent or do anything about the situation.
What's worse, there's lots that don't understand the differance between the people and the nation, or how complex things really are. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 2:10:35 PM | k, you guys can't bring vietnam into the descussion since
a. It wasn't a war
b. It was a policing action
c. you have no idea about the ROE that were put on the american soldiers. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 2:27:30 PM | | sings~~ "why can't we be friends,.. why can't we be friends?" Each of us has something the other needs and uses so what's the point. Odd comment: USA taking resource control of Canada? No need to,.. we haven't done anything to their pipelines running through our country or we haven't held back our water,... yet hahahaha but then again I think I read someone said it is tainted anyhow so why would they want it??? :P | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 9/27/2005 4:33:13 PM | Interesting debate!
Thanks Mr. R for getting my point. I was a bit under the influence when I wrote my last post, so even though it didn't really make sense, you got my point. | |
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| Canada vs. USA
Posted: 10/2/2005 5:46:02 PM | Very interesting topic. Not often enough do we examin the differences between neighbors, whatever we learn, I hope is used positively.
A bit of trivia, my great great great grandfather came from Ireland and his first job was surveying the area that is now Ottawa. The capitol was in Kingston and was moved north for fear of an American attack. Here we are 150+ years later and what do Canadians fear the most? American attacks. Not the violent kind, but economic, ie softwood lumber, water, energy.
The root difference (imho) is solidarity. For the most part we have very little, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. The less I worry about being a Canadian, the more I am an individual. I have a lot of American friends, even get down there to visit on occaision, and people are people, some good some bad. I've been to a few different places where a mix of people from several nations were present. If an occaision arose to form groups, only one nationality would congregate to itself. That learned behavior certainly does provide strength and security, but also contributes to ignorance of the rest of the world.
I am a member of a internet based club with several hundred active members and posed a question, "Who really believes that they live in the best place to be in the world."
The responces were far from what I anticipated. Almost all Canadian members which amounts to a handfull responded with very specific locations, (town, or neighbourhood). Our counterparts, which accounts for 99% of members, musterd a mere dozen or so responces refering to a couple States or the country itself.
Personally I think both countries have their advantages, but I do live in the best place. And if anyone cares to visit, I'll buy ya a  Cheers! | |
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