arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 101 | |
| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/16/2005 1:28:45 PM | Off topic- Some scars are hard to heal, especially when a whole people were also used as cannon fodder because they were catholic for almost 400 years.
With the advent of terrorism (freedom fighter from the other side of the coin) expecting occupation anywhere usually ends up a lot more costly that it’s worth it these days. Best policy is to get the job done and run ASAP. | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/17/2005 12:55:17 PM | | THE VERY BEST POLICY IS TO KEEP ONES NOSES OUT OF OTHER COUNTRIES AFFAIRS UNLESS THERE ARE SERIOUS STARVATION PROBLEMS ETC..AND THEN ALL COUNTRIES GET TOGETHER AT A SUMMIT TO EQUALLY DECIDE WHAT TO DO FOR THE BEST..... NOT RUSH IN LIKE THE HILLBILLIES LOOKING FOR THAT BLACK GOLD AND KILLING EVERYTHING IN ITS PATH. AMERICA AND BRITAIN CREATED THESE MONSTERS WHEN IT SUITED THEM AS USUAL. AND THE WHOLE WORLD PAYS AS USUAL... | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 103 | |
| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/17/2005 1:59:19 PM | Lets go back to the real issue at hand: IRAQ
Saddam Hussein: First of all, he is a lawyer and a paper dictator who was only interested in power and money.
Al-Qaida: They feel that all the money from oil is threatening their way of life. They know we want the oil and they don’t want us to have it.
Saddam / al-Qaida: Not likely. They fundamentally opposed each other. Bin Laden considered saddam a total a$$hole.
WMD in Iraq: We know he had chemical weapons capability, because US gave it to them in the 80s to use again Iran when it was obvious that Iraq was going to lose the war. US even provided specially equipped helicopter for delivery of the stuff.
Nuclear: Saddam wanted the BOMB in the 80s and was building hard water reactor in Osarik (not sure about the spelling) that could be used to make plutonium. Israelis bombed it. No evidence of ever acquiring or getting involved in Uranium enrichment and those are not things you can hide.
Oil: Iraq is responsible of 10% of World’s oil exports. This is very significant. After the first golf war, the economic sanctions limited exports but saddam found other ways to sell his oil on the black market and everyone was in on it from the French and Russians to Jordanians and Israelis (heehee).
Why the war?
Iraqi oil had to come on the open market because when you are selling that much oil cheap, it does affect the fuel prices and keeps it low. For political reasons, economic sanctions couldn’t be lifted as long as saddam was on power because we made him into the enemy number 1.
Under the US law, CIA is not allowed to kill another country’s head of state. And even if they did, saddam had created a system that prevented anyone from having enough influence or power to take his place. | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/17/2005 2:29:07 PM | ALL IN THE NAME OF WHAT???? CERTAINLY NOT HUMANITY!
THOUSANDS ARE DEAD AND MORE ARE DYING EVERY DAY FOR POWER, MONEY AND EGOS AND YET AS WE SEEN PARTS OF AMERICA ARE LIKE 3RD WORLD CONDITIONS AND BRITAIN HAS ITS FAIR SHARE OF CARDBOARD CITIES...
WHERE DOES THE MONEY GO????
THE RICH GET RICHER AND THE POOR GET POORER!!!! | |
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wez155
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Joined: 7/8/2005
Msg: 105 | |
| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/17/2005 5:04:58 PM | @rockhopper-
Look buddy, ive just sat here for about an hour reading peoples views and i believe there are some people out there with their heads screwed on, some good advice all round, but wez, not gonna blow my trumpet here but just passed my 13yr point, ive never questioned anywhere the army has sent me, its not my place to, i stood there and gave the oath of alleigence(spelling??) to her majesty Queen Elizabeth etc, signed on the dotted line and got the best career anyone could ask for, whay im trying to say is why are you geeting abusive with people for their opinions, get over it, spend more time doing the job uve been trained to do than on this forum and leave putting the world to rights to the government who i might add pays your wage, not good to be stabbed in the back by an employee
First of all, It dont matter how long ive been in, And Ive been to a few places to. I am not questioning why I have been sent here or wether the governmet are rite to have sentme/us!
I swore my oath of allegiance too, and I wouldn't ever stand down from an operational duty or task! unlike some excuses who join up, back on topic, I got irate not abusive! And if you read and understood the messages then you would understand why!
I gladly do my job and do it to the best of my ability which is probably wht my career is doing alot better than average! But some people do actually get down time and what I do in my down time, as long as its within the rules and regs, is my business!
If I want to go on a forum and discuss with people wether they believe there government was right or wrong to do what it did then I will! I think if you spent more than an hour to read the comments on here you would see I have not said anything the firstly breaks any rules or regulations and secondly that could be classed as bad mouthing the army or bringin it into disrepute and that thirdly I have not disagreed with any action the government has taken! So just out of Interest, in what respect have I actually 'STABBED' the government in the back????
I would class something like, growing up in britain then blowing up somewhere in london as stabbing the government in the back, not talkin on a forum!
And just to be pedantic! It's actually the TAX PAYERS who pay OUR wage!
just out of interest, what is your job?
ENJOY TELIC 07  | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/17/2005 8:42:26 PM | irrespective of the rights and wrongs of the inital debate about why we went in, the simple fact is that the average man and woman in the streets of iraq were persecuted under the existing regime.
as a result of the acions of the nations the average man in the street has had that form of tyranny removed and from that point of view is better off.. the only concern is that eradicating one (for want of a better syonym0 virus, then the same AMITS (average man in the street) is also exposed to other virises which previously were not so deadly.
troops in this respect need to act as in a manner that cauteises the open wound their original actions caused until the point that the wound is healed and infection is unlikely.
If that means staying beyond the estimated timeframe, and requires exended action, then so be it. its the nature of the beast in these things.
We shouldnt confuse the initial question of should we have gone in in the first place with abandoning the woulnds we have caused just because things are going septic11
from all accounts we hear at this end, then im afraudid there is only once casue of action at present and that is to stay.
Id love to be able to say the army should pull out and save the lives of our guys, but alas situation demands otherwise. god bless them | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 107 | |
| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/17/2005 9:02:17 PM | ^^^^ Irrespective of the rights and wrongs of why you went there, the man in the street has had his ass kicked for a few years and counting.
How would you like to have bombs dropping all over you, what was it the shock and awe, have cars exploding, electricity, food, water and the whole infrastructure distroyed. You think he is better off ??????????
Lets not get into that, I feel that the debate should end and co-operation should begin so that the rebuilt Iraq is better, but don’t try to justify it as it is being better for the common man on the street. Saddam killed political threats, the average man on the street is a shop keeper and barber who went after his business and maybe whined a little. | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/18/2005 6:20:24 AM | No i dont think that the way Iraq occured was right.
But I dont think we should pull out now.
I dont think Iraq is better off at the moment, but I think it will be in the future.
That said, I havent been out there, and my opinion is based purely from having the luxury of thinking about sitting on my sofa at home! | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/18/2005 6:28:26 AM | NO, IRAQI PEOPLE SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BOMBARDED NIGHT AFTER NIGHT, TERRIFIED!
BUT NOW THAT THE DAMAGE IS DONE THE TROOPS WILL HAVE TO STAY THERE AND RECTIFY THE HORRIBLE CARNAGE THEY CAUSED....
WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION WAS USED ON THEM BY US!!! ( THE TAXPAYERS) | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/25/2005 1:45:24 PM | Wish they would bring the squaddies home, at least they cant harrass & take advantage of us on here then!  | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/25/2005 4:45:01 PM | | Given the nature of Islam and the structure of its societies. Democracy is not an option. We have no right to impose our views on another peoples. No right to interfere in their right to decide how they wish to govern their own country. We went to war on a lie and are an occupying force. We should recognise our disgrace and withdraw. Now! | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 113 | |
| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/25/2005 4:51:09 PM |
Given the nature of Islam and the structure of its societies. Democracy is not an option.
It never amazes me when I hear really uninformed opinions. Most of the Islamic countries with the exception of Saudi Arabia and a few emirates are either fully constitutional or constitutional monarchies just like England.
Could you tell what nature of Islam and its societies are you referring to ? | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/25/2005 4:57:25 PM | | yes it is a bit more serious than that..........but i still think candika had a very good valid point | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 10/25/2005 6:27:42 PM | For people who think they make the decisions as to what to post or not, I'll make the decisions as to what is allowed or not in a thread - thank you. It would be appreciated if people do not incite others with their belligerent posting styles, flaming, or insults of any kind. If you want to comment on a statement in an intelligent manner, on its merits, and without making it personal, feel free. As soon as you make a character reference to someone, that is when it becomes personal, and that is when some of you will be given a mini vacation from posting.
What is allowed is to stay on topic to the subject matter. What is not, is to railroad/derail, or hijack the thread, and most importantly not squabble like children in a schoolyard.
Hopefully, for the new ones and the veterans, I've made myself clear. If you have comments regarding moderation, you can email them to the Forum_Moderator account - not here in the thread.
A lot of good thoughts have been made, the nonsense has been cleaned up, I would like the discussion to proceed in a healthy manner again.
TrappedonBaySt / Forum Moderator
PS.
Familiarize yourselves with the rules below, the analogy of being a guest in someone's home and abiding by their rules while you visit, is the same as you having rules for your guests when they visit your home. This is a public, yet privately owned site.
Rules pertaining to usage and participation on Plenty Of Fish can be found here:
Welcome Newbies
RULE BREAKING!!!!
Forum Rules - General
Forum Rules - Specific
Terms of Service/User Agreement
Frequently Asked Questions | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 2:06:17 AM | Boys i am right behind you...You can do no wrong in my eyes..we should be there and we should be helping, we can't allow dictators like Saddam to exist in this world, surely everyone has the right to freedom, movement and speech like we do here.
Go on the lads... | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 2:20:54 AM | | at the end of the day its a job, i dont agree with it my self but i just get on with what im paid to do. im glad to hear that we have the surport from others back in the uk, thank you for that every one means alot. im just here doing what ive been trained to to do, i dont question why im out here its the people upstairs that decied. at the end of the day im doing somthing with my life were as some people at my age dont bother, not having ago just making a point. any way i could get hit by a bus 2morro. if the armys out in iraq we`re out here for a reason! | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 3:25:27 AM | It appears that, Iraq is now even worse than before, women are being beaten and killed if they were western clothes, which they used to do before, large areas of Iraq have been given to the extremists under the nose of the army, who in turn rule with there own punishments etc.
So liberating people just never happened, in fact at a cost of billions of money and endless lives lost the situation is worse.
Apparently Bush didnt even know that there were different factions in Iraq, after he decided to bomb the place, it would have been equivelant to bombing Ireland with no knowledge of the problems within the Catholic/protestant community.
Even the parents of the dead solsiers in the USA are asking for the withdrawal of troops, and asking why the dead are brought back without any ceremony, and the injured taken to hospitals in the middle of the night, its because in the vietnam war, the sight of the dead and injured opened peoples eyes to the reality of war, instead of believing all the politicians say, that its all under control, its the biggest shameful act and a disgrace to our so called leaders. | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 9:46:58 AM | This entire situation has been extremely painful for everyone who truly cares.
I live in the midwest~Wisconsin.
Most of us who live in "middle America" don't experience the same emotions about threats as do the people on the coasts so, we tend to be a bit more objective and "wait & see".
This does NOT mean that we aren't into it.
I'm a Nam vet and know how it is in Iraq, etc.
It's bad.
We, as a nation, are deeply divided over this entire war and all it encompases.
While I could repeat what others have stated as their opinions, I can only legitimately state my own.
I detest the current occupant of the White House and the office of the president.
If you remember the Dixie Chicks of several years ago stating that they were ashamed of him and the resultant uproar, you should know that many many of us agree with them.
The undesirables in the US govt and NOT representative of the great majority of us, the people who live their everyday lives here in the US.
While I would and have taken lives to defend myself and my buddies, I am a peaceful guy who just wants to live my peaceful life going about my everyday activities.
I have very strong feelings about what is going on in the world and trust no government, including my own.
I absolutely do not believe the purported reasons for bush OO invading Iraq.
Neither do I believe that Saddam had anything to do with the TWO planes which went into the WTC or the one at the pentagon and the one that went to the ground.
I DO want to stand up as an American and applaud the men & women on the plane who so heroically gave all of it up and took control of the situation, even though the planne crashed.
This may not sit well with some of you however, I see it as bad luck that the only plane that was prevented from hitting its target was the one headed to the white house.
The truly innocent people who were murdered were in the WTC and the people who stopped that final plane.
All that said, I won't even fool myself into thinking that I have any answers as to the current disaster.
As a former grunt, all my heart and feelings go to the men & women in unis over there.
I DO believe that they were sent there for a lie yet, that does not have anything to do with supporting them.
As for the politically correct bs about "humiliating" prisoners, so what!!
Is this anything like beheading and/or setting fire to people and dragging them down a street in public?
Screw humilitaion. At least they're alive.
I realize that I'm rambling here however, my feeling are very real.
I also resent that this regime in my country has turned so many people against those of us who are just everyday Americans.
They are a self-serving, dishonest, divisive cartel of theives.
They do not only steal money and power, they have stolen much of the human dignity and warmth the was us(not caps as U.S.)
More and more is coming out about what is actually wrong with this guy in office and, more and more of us are realizing that there is truly something wrong with him mentally. | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 11:02:11 AM | Whether or not it is wrong is for the courts to decide but for the moment we do have a responsibility in securing stability in the region and doing something to clean up the mess that our nations have created. Because our governments failed us does that mean we have to fail the Iraqi people, all the vultures are circling Fanatical Muslim clerics, tribal war chiefs, Soulless corporate, do we really want to leave these people to sort out our mess?
We all want to see a democratic Iraq, a nation educated in its own very past and diversities. Just as somebody already has mentioned Iraq was originally 3 nations just as Yugoslavia once was an amalgam of countries, the break up of this country was the cause of the civil wars. Do we really want to see a break up of Iraq, this I can imagine would be the outcome if we pulled all the troops out without properly helping a country in its time of need. | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 4:51:39 PM | To be honest- with the American occupation of Iraq, quality of life for the Iraqi people has been severely damaged.
The amount of suicide attacks, insurgent attacks- small bombs; all of this terrorist violence has INCREASED 4 times over- In response to the occupation.
How can we say we are liberating a country by killing 20,000 of it's people- and causing immense violence, destruction and chaos.
The troops are not to blame. I have nothing but the utmost respect for our men and women in uniform- I am NOT anti-american, I am from a MILITARY family- most of which are in the states.
I simply do not trust the lives of our brave troops in the hands of a man who has no regard for any human life unless that human happens to fit in the top 10 % of the salary bracket. A man that will call himself a war president and then cut funding for veterans. A man who preached about 9/11 and used it to justify the war- and then cut funding for police officers, fire fighters.
I do not trust George . W. Bush-- And I hope and pray that my cousin comes back from Iraq alive--- But I may not be that lucky.
xo
-bella | |
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| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 5:01:09 PM | To the neverending myth about Saddam's WMDs..
There were no weapons of mass destruction. The evidence gathered about the WMDs were faulty and forged, it has been proven ten times over.
Saddam had chemical weapons when we supplied them to him in the 80's as someone mentioned- but Saddam still lacked the capability to maintain these weapons- which is why absolutely NOTHING was found by the U.N.
The question was never "Is saddam a threat?" Because to be honest ANY brutal dictator who commits crimes violating human rights CAN BE CONSIDERED SOME TYPE OF THREAT. Fidel Castro has commited thousands of crimes against humanity- against his own people, just as Saddam did. Hugo Chavez continues to violate human rights' codes.
Was Saddam a threat? Maybe. But the question WAS= WAS HE AN IMMINENT THREAT? AKA-- would saddam have attacked the united states and was he planning to do so- I can say with confidence, absolutely not. He had and currently has NO ties to Al Qaeda a completely different terrorist network (who have claimed responsibility for 9/11) who leaders are still free to roam as they please.
It is not the job of the United states to be the WORLD COP. There are many brutal dictators, and in the history of the U.S. there are some we have taken out of power and replaced with even more brutal dictators. It's not doing any good. It's the responsibility of the western world to lead by example- instead of further crippling developing countries by exploiting their people and exploiting their natural resources.
It's time the U.S. government wiped the dollar signs out of their eyes- and learned a little bit about compassion.
xo
-bella | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 124 | |
| Iraq- should we or Shouldn't we?
Posted: 11/24/2005 5:08:01 PM | Insurgency is going to continue and there is going to be any shortage of volunteers.
People are seeing this just like the British occupation and rather have an Iraqi dictator than an occupying army. | |
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