| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/10/2005 9:46:53 AM | | Women don't like unclean men anyway, so when they're young is the time to instill good habits regarding cleanliness. | |
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icalla
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Joined: 7/20/2005
Msg: 77 | |
| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/10/2005 2:07:29 PM | Thanks Kitty,
I do respect your choice. It is a choice, that's just it. And thanks for reminding me that there's no point in regurgitating lost pain. Sometimes I forget.
And I wasn't going to bring this up, but since Ekko already did, I do see it as being akin to the abortion issue. Who decides? The children can't decide, they count on us to make the best decisions we are able to make, and that's all there is to it.
We can take two attitudes: we can look into the facts and into our hearts minds guts and do the best we can, or we can just go on the spur of the moment. We can respect our own decisions and those of others, or we can turn judgemental and issue blanket statements that are disrespectful and inconsiderate. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/10/2005 4:46:22 PM | icalla... it's far more helpful to discuss the pros and cons on each side of this issue that it is to point fingers and call one side wrong. neither side is "wrong", we've just made different decisions for our own reasons. sharing that information may help someone else make the decision for themselves or their child.
i've honestly never heard a horror story from either side of this issue from anyone i know personally and i don't know a doctor that's told a parent this surgery is anything other than elective unless there is a problem with the child's genital function. it is not medically necessary to circumcise a boy or a girl for that matter... it's a matter of personal/religious choice. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/10/2005 5:46:36 PM |
personal/religious choice.
That's exactly what it is, and there is no really correct answer, at least not one that will convince some people otherwise.
I have read of horror stories (medically documented) from both sides, but tell that to the kid who had his penis mutilated permanently by a surgical mistake. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 11:16:06 AM |
but tell that to the kid who had his penis mutilated permanently by a surgical mistake
I just watched a documentary in regards to a twin male, that had that exact thing happen to him. His doctors and parents decided to raise him as a female and removed any remaining male parts. This, of course, did not work. The young man commited suicide at the age of 35, as did his twin brother.
Ekkobeach:
Removing the clit hood from a female is totally the same as circumcision...both are medically unnecessary proceedures/mutilations. In my province, circumcision is no longer covered by Alberta Health Care. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 5:59:30 PM | If a mother/father chooses to cut their son because they believe they are going to reduce the chance for cancer (for example) then that is a good parent trying to do a good thing, and should not be subjected to being called a "mutilator".
And if you cut off its Balls to do your 'responsible' part to contribute to "Population Control", or remove its hand to deter 'Theft', then lets head right over to 'Ethnic & Genetic Cleansing' while we are at it.
I have no clue what 'Whack-job' would even conceive removing body parts to deter some unproven and non-scientific possibility of potential Disease.
Who needs a few more $$$ of yet something else that can be cooked up and billed for? | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 6:09:04 PM | this is a great link... debunking the myth that cancer of the penis will get'cha!
http://www.circs.org/library/kochen/index.html
given the number of baby boys that are born each year... i don't think there's cause to worry about this sort of cancer. cancer definitely isn't a reason to run out and have your boy circumcised, that's for sure.
ekko... how would you feel if your genitals were mutilated at birth and you had no functioning form of a sexual organ, not only to pleasure yourself but to procreate? i believe those parents made the best choice they could in allowing their children an alternative life... a chance, if you will at a normal, healthy, sexual future that could lead to marriage, grandchildren, etc. not being in their shoes and having a healthy baby girl... it's easy for you to sit back and call them sick. i think it would have been cruel for them to do nothing and leave their baby boys mutilated. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 6:12:43 PM | Yes - great website!! All the research is 25 years old! I am sure it is still accurate, though. It is not like we have had any medical advances in all that time ??!
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 6:16:13 PM | history only repeats itself ekko... i'd venture to say the study has not changed much since 1971.
as a matter of fact... here's another link... one from this year, states the same basic thing without all of the research.
http://www.hmc.psu.edu/healthinfo/pq/penilecancer.htm
penile cancer is rare. if that is your sole argument for circumcision, it's doesn't fly.
and here's another study done from canada...
http://www.circlist.com/rites/canada.html | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 6:36:50 PM | Of course, this study was before HIV and AIDS, which is one of the risk factors that are increased in uncircumcized men - but you put your faith in the information - ignorance is bliss.
This sounds much like the Zillions of Sensationalizations one can read about in the 'National Enquirer', things that could happen tomorrow that can kill you.
No one in my family has ever had 'Dick-Cancer', nor have I known of anyone - EVER !!!!
Must be some awfully important sh*t to cut off parts of the Body to prevent this or to prevent that.
They used to cut out 'Tonsils' to "prevent" infections, 'Lobotomies' to deter potential violent trantrums in someone, and all these uncalled-for practices have for all intents & purposes gone by the Wayside.
Can anybody say 'Big Medico Business'? | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 7:06:43 PM | | Its an issue of cleanliness - and that can be taught. Like my doctor used to tell me, most kids don't clean behind their ears, but no one's cutting their ears off! | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/11/2005 9:11:02 PM | Ekkobeach;
Thank you for you knowledgable and mature response...appreciated.
Circumcision can prevent this and circumcision can prevent that....whatever. Do you have any idea of the risks and health problems that women endure?
Ovarian cancer ~ All women should have these removed at birth..too risky to keep!!
Uterine cancer ~ This should also be removed at birth...carries a great risk as well.
Cervical cancer ~ So what if it holds the bladder in place...risk to high...gotta go!!
Men can still get cancer of the genitals...regardless of their decision to circumcise or not...maybe just chop the hole damn package off...Presto..no more health concerns!! | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 10:09:01 AM | All science and knowledge as we know it is based on making comparisons to something else!
Circumcision will eventually be discontinued completely. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 10:31:37 AM | when the best defense of a position is to make comparisons to something else, then your position is weak.
Most of us make comparisons when we are talking about an issue. Sometimes those comparisons can be totally illogical and I agree, it makes for a weak argument, but many comparisons come from personal experience and knowledge and therefore are relevant.
I find it ironic that so many people feel circumcision is wrong because it 'mutilates' a baby's body part, yet I have to wonder how many of these same people believe it's fine and their 'choice' to mutilate a baby while in the womb through abortion. I know...that is ANOTHER topic, but it's a 'comparison' that pops into my mind when reading through this thread.
MmmmBaby, when you state..."Circumcision will eventually be discontinued completely", you are wrong. I don't ever see the Jewish faith abandoning this procedure. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 10:41:16 AM | | Only one who looks different?..........do kids prance around naked these days? Since when has the 'natural' foreskin become uncommon? I wish I knew why everyone feels compelled to do this to their kids? I agree to have it done if there is medical reasons but come on people, more guys should be uncut than cut (unless you are jewish) so why does it seem to be the exact opposite? I have no kids but is this recommended by doctors or something? There shouldn't even be a decision unless religious or medical reasons are involved, leave it uncut, it is how you are born, this procedure cannot be reversed remember.... | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 10:43:50 AM |
I don't ever see the Jewish faith abandoning this procedure.
That's one heck of a good reason to do it- religion! A lot of wars are started over religion too.
Human sacrifice was a religious act, it no longer exists (except maybe in some freak cult). The Jewish faith will eventually abandon circumcision also, just not today. You think not? Do they practice everything they always have? No. Times and cultures change, as do religious beliefs. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 11:22:52 AM | | What a load of bull in my opinion. God said to Abraham kill me a son... WTF? Would you listen to murderous voices in your head? | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 11:34:01 AM |
I am pretty sure the millions of people who follow religion would disagree with you.
As am I. Doesn't mean either is correct, though! | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 11:48:26 AM | | Cannibalism and human sacrifice were correct to some. Should we turn a blind eye to those? Circumcision is mutilation of a helpless (and perfectly healthy) infant, supposedly born as GOD made him. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 1:33:15 PM | I question their understanding of the issue
You may question whatever you care to question...I really don't care. I don't consider my opinion to be "weak"...for the simple fact that you disagree with it.
By your logic, why not just kill all kids when they are born since they are all going to die one day anyway?
By MY logic? Now look who's comparing!! From surgery to murder?....OMG...talk about off topic...and a very weak arguement to say the least!! When one has no viable arguement...one resorts to ignorant and irrelevant remarks...such as this one.
Since you have nothing valuable to say, I am done trying to respond to you
Rephrased: I have no viable arguement, therefore, I will not respond to any further questions and/or statements that you make. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 2:01:49 PM | This thread topic has started a discussion between my 17 yr old son and myself. As I stated before, I did have my son circumcised shortly after birth. Now, I realize this is a hot topic for many people, and I believe in researching an issue so one can make an educated and informed decision, which is what I did 17 yrs ago. I fully respect a person who has researched this topic and has decided not to circumcise their baby boy. What I don't appreciate is how many people on both sides of the issue want to force their personal view and opinion on the other and make insulting comments. There have been many facts, quotes and links in favour of leaving a boy intact. Great, super, bring it on, as the more knowledge a person has, the easier it is for them to come to an educated decision to circumcise or not. I was doing a bit of researching myself this afternoon due to a question my son had. He wanted to know exactly 'how' a circumcision was done. I came across this very informative website and plan on going through it with him later on. It IS a pro circumcision site, has graphic pictures and tons of information. Now, my position is this. For anyone considering circumcision, don't just listen to the emotional rantings of some that say it is a barbaric form of mutilation. Instead look at both sides, the pros and cons. The following link that I'm going to give is actually to a web site that was made up of individuals who are sharing their own personal experiences growing up uncut and wishing they had a circumcised penis, along with accounts of their own personal circumcisions, medical information, etc.
http://www.circlist.com
What I have told my son is that he will need to educate himself on this issue so that he is prepared to make a decision if he has a baby boy himself in the yrs to come. I've told him that just because he has been circumcised, that does not mean he should just blindly have it done to his baby boy, he needs to read up on ALL the facts and then come to a decision. BTW...my son is very happy he is circumcised and he had simply planned on having his baby boy done as well. What I'm trying to do though is instill this need in him to research an issue, weigh it all out and come to his OWN conclusion, no matter what my opinion is. | |
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| Circumcision...To cut or not to cut?
Posted: 12/12/2005 2:50:22 PM |
I have told my daughter that if any man touches her I would chop his weenie off
 VISUAL!
- so I guess I am pro-circumcision!
FINALLY we know!  | |
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j-mix
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Joined: 10/4/2005
Msg: 100 | |
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