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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 3:02:04 PM | ^^^^ men have been paying in one way or another for eternity and will continue to do so untill a radical shift in thinking on a large scale by males discards outdated notions of chivalry.
So as so many women enjoy stating how independent/successfull they are so they can proclaim that they do not need a man to pay their bills-- then they can pay | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 3:17:54 PM | the woman should start paying the moment she knows there isnt any physical attraction.
cmon we all know the only reason a guy is going to pay is simply because he wants something, be it sexual, physical or as mental accompaniment
no man throws money at something he doesnt intend to get something from
no woman does either
and that may be a jaded response but its true
short of buyin her a coffee and a donut or a small meal , it isnt going to b a routine thing for anyone to consistantly buy your meals or pay your tabs without an ulterior motive
anyone who says differently is full of crap and a master manipulator or at least a wanna be manipulator
if you do something because u feel u should, then u are just being manipulated by yourself and the other person
even married people have expectations of eachother when they buy gifts or prepare meals for one another
one hand always scratches the back of the other person , no matter what type of relationship it is, be it sexual or just buddies
terming a sap that pays for your expenses be it male or female a gentleman or lady is the dumbest most manipulative terminology there is
historically gentlemen were sweet talking manipulators that use political correctness and fancy attire to mislead and manipulate their victims
and lady"s .. were just the prostitutes of the elitist groups, many of which were worse then the common streetwalkers who at least were up front about the cost of them putting out
u cant call someone a gentleman becasue he pays your bills or your tabs
any woman that would allow a man to do this is far far away from any terminology of a lady
a proper lady would refuse to accept anything from someone they know isnt for them
they dont abuse or manipulate a man into being their sugar daddy
in the end though if the guy would prefer to let his dik do the thinking for him , then i say have at it n soak the sucker, take him for all hes worth
myself . if i offer to take the girl out, then im paying , if she wants to go dancing ill buy the first round
but unless its a 2 way street , she can go stand back on her corner in my opinion
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 3:24:23 PM | | ^^^^I've been on dates when the man has paid.. although I did insist on dutch. Only to never hear from them again. They had no other intentions. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 3:48:28 PM | It is stupid in this day and age for females, or dumb A males, to follow this archaic practice.
Women that even slightly think that men have to pay are prostituting themselves whether sex is part of it or not. They are using the men.
Men that pay more than half the amount or think they should pay the whole amount because they are men are just falling into the oldest trick in the book.
Dumb.
Just dumb to pay for any of that. Why doesn't the female pay for most of it or all? Don't fall for that crap that females get paid less than males as they don't.
OP, this lady is asking to go out again? Great, that means that she pays. Go out with her and don't bring any money or cards with you. Nothing, just the sheer enjoyment that she is Taking You Out. Make sure you have an alternate way home or something else to do in that area when you have to leave happily on your way. I love it seeing the looks on their faces when they expect you to pay. That planned trip to the bathroom, to go out side for a second to make a cell phone call, or some other lame excuse. If she is such the one to Expect You to pay because you are Male then she should pay when she asks you out. If you don't dump her or nip this in the bud she will sap you dry and move onto greener, more money, pastures and you may even see her going out with one of your friends. She is inmmature, insecure, and someone prostituting herself.
EEEWWWWWWW... hands off that one! | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:22:09 PM | Hmmmm,
In most cases, the ladies that I go out with are single mothers. So they pay for a babysitter and then I expect them to still pay half? I don't think so. Plus, in most cases, I have a higher income level than they do. So, if you really think that you're so modern and progressive thinking, then make sure you pay half of any sitter fees plus you might throw in half of the cost of the nail salon or tanning booth.
On first dates, I usually go to inexpensive places. I explain that I'm a bit old fashioned and expect to pick up the tab for the first date. And if we decide to go out after that, then we can either go dutch or alternate picking up the tab. The alternating thing is actually better because whoever is paying chooses where we go, so if they are tight on money, they can pick something more modest.
I even do the alternating thing with coworkers and friends. Its just a lot simpler for the server to put everything on one tab rather than try to split things and keep track. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 6:40:42 PM | ^^^^^ 2 up. Ha-ha-ha, annikkagirl, I think that's your profile name, it's my choice to stay single for right now but I am looking. I just don't want to be stuck with someone that wants money, even ones that only sometimes pay dutch. Plus where do you dine that you pay before eating? McDonalds?
^^^^^ karl-in-pcola, I can understand your points about the single Parents thing. Women are not the only single parents but due to our great but misguided and sexist courts most women end up with custody of the children which gratefully is changing. If I get to know someone with children at my age they are usually grown up. I am not into getting involved with someone my age that just started having kids, 50 years old area, as it shows they are self centered and didn't think about how that would affect their children which most ladies are actively trying to find someone to help pay financially and emotionally to help raise those children more so than looking for a life time partner. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I'll get bad marks for that but that's okay as it will come from people that are PC and not connected with reality and truth.
My hat is off to you with the idea of paying half the babysitting tab. Women do make on average the same as men, not always but not always do men make more or the same as women. Times change and old stats from the 1960s should be not looked at. For those ladies, young or old, that can't stomach that too bad. For the guys that think they can only be men by paying for everything I feel sorry for your insecurities.
To me the money doesn't matter so much, it's the attitude that men Have to Pay that sucks as it is a falacy held onto by women that see a free meal or anything ticket and men too stuck in their own insecurities to appreciate a woman that can handle her self but have to fall to being used by females that have lower standards in life.
I like your alternating idea though as that makes sense. For me in the beginning things are dutch till we get to know each other which doesn't take long. I have run into too many Married women out playing around, not fun. Also women just looking for a free meal when I am focused on meeting someone. The alternating thing is something that I have in my profile, just don't call it alternating. I suggest that those types of dates don't come till later when we know each other and then they will have more of a romantic meaning to them instead of following some stupid and archaic social rule that never made sense in the first place.
Too bad if some of you don't get my points and focus more on 'How Dare he go against the grain' type of attitude. Get a life, really. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 8:13:40 PM | well all the disgruntled nastiness aside id like to know what kind of person would accept a date and go on one and not take any money with them?
i mean really , what type of classless individual just expects someone else to foot thier bills and pay their way for them?
sounds like a prostitute to me
as shes the only one i know of that goes on dates with no money and gets paid for being someones company
it doesnt end at going on dates either
ever get a present from your partner? where he/she goes n gets your gift from a dollar store and here you go " the retard" and buy him/her a fancy ring or chain or watch etc , then the other person considers you cheep or terms u frugal because you would prefer to buy a few nice thick steaks and stay home for dinner rather than go out n get a few thin chunks of horsemeat in a fancy restraunt for 10 times the price
it isnt all about money tho
its about this " attitude of entitlement" that really gets me goin, and i must admit i have up n walked out on the odd date when i got put in a position where the girl wanted to go out somewhere really pricy and immediately ordered the $60 dinner salad.
my advice to you if you meet a woman/man like that............... goto the bathroom n then make an exit for the door, see if they can do enuf dishes to support their appetites
in the end i could care less if i make more money then the other person does. i know i order what i can afford to pay for , not what i think the sucker im goin out with should b able to afford
i dont care if i was dating a millionaire woman id rather eat with the knowledge i can afford to feed myself and dont owe anyone anything | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 10:09:37 PM | All these rules being put on dating, like saying "I'll take you to dinner but if you feel the urge to do ANYTHING else you better plan on paying up because I am a cheapass."
Who thinks this much while on a date? Isn't dating supposed to be about fun instead or are all these frugal men mentally balancing their checkbooks the whole time? Dates do not have to be expensive anyway, so geez relax!!!! And just because a man pays for dates does not mean that the woman is secretly plotting how she is going to get him to pay her bills or "expenses" as previously put. It doesn't mean she is a prostitute either, boy that slam came in handy for alot of you out there. How convenient.
All those penny pinching boys out there should learn how to be a man you might find that real women tend to appreciate it. The excuses are petty. Just admit that you don't know how to be generous and that you wet your pants at the thought of letting go of a few dollars. Theres more to life than money, not all women are golddiggers so don't act like your all victims of our evil money-grubbing ways. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 10:37:28 PM | | I'm not a penny pincher at all, but if she does not want to pull her weight and act as a true equal, that's a big red flag. If she feels entitled to preferential treatment with this issue, she will expect the same with many other issues. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/10/2008 11:58:34 PM | From many of the guys here, the over all theme here is everything is about being equal. The attitude seems to be from many of you. "you pay this much and the lady better pay her half or she is suddenly a gold digger or a prostitute” How any of you come to that conclusion, I don’t know.
Again, just to make clear even though I said it before. I don't condone a woman who expects expensive dates all the time and is not content with staying at home sometimes and having a simple, lets get pizza and watch a movie date. ‘Countrygirlca’ pointed out that dates do not have ever have to be expensive anyway, that is so true.
When I go on a date, I pay for all of the date. Why? Because I feel that it's what a man is supposed to do and not only that but I want to do that. To me it's about treating a woman like a lady and wanting to treat her as such. Why in the world would that make her less in any way for a man to pay for the date? I'm not sure how you guys were raised, but here is what I feel.
1. When I take a woman out on a date, I pay. I'm not expecting anything sexual from her and I don't think one ounce less of her because I pay. I feel it's being a gentleman and showing her a good time and that’s that. If that makes me old fashioned or whatever then so be it, I'm old fashioned but it's what I feel is right.
2. When I'm walking into a public place, I'm the type of guy who will open a door for a lady so she can walk in first. Some of you with your thinking may as well say something like. "but why should I open the door, she has a hand and she can open a door herself" Yes she can but since when did being a gentleman go out the window in the dating scene?
Anyone have a response to that?
As for the poster that said that being a gentleman has other motives and that a woman who accepts a man to pay for her date has no class, that is way off base and not true. I don't expect anything and I'm not being taken for a ride by a gold digger either. I'm asking her to go out with me because it's a date, and if a woman is going to be in my company then I will treat her like a lady. Pay for the date, open her door and hope that she had a good time.
To me the money doesn't matter so much, it's the attitude that men Have to Pay that sucks as it is a falacy held onto by women that see a free meal or anything ticket and men too stuck in their own insecurities to appreciate a woman that can handle her self but have to fall to being used by females that have lower standards in life.
It has nothing to do with insecurity. Personally speaking I’m fine with a assertive woman who can handle herself. True money is not the point. It’s about paying for the date and doing the right thing. As far as being used by women who have lower standards. Keep in mind, the person your dating is someone that YOU choose to date because you see qualities in her that you must like to begin with. If your outlook is that the woman that you asked out on the date is just looking for a free meal to begin with, then you should not date her anyway.
MSG. 153
Thank you! | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:21:29 AM | Personnally, as I said before, I'm a bit old fashioned, I do expect to pay, and am more than happy/willing to pay, but most of the girls that I've gone out with make some effort to pay. It probably has to do with other guys she's been with that expect something in return. If they insist, I sometimes say "I'll get the bill, you can get the tip," or offer to do the alternating thing that I mentioned earlier.
In defense of some of the guys who sound bitter, I have been on a few dates where we went to really nice places, spent a good bit of money >$100, and then never got heard from them again. So, a little bit cynical on that, but I don't let it change my nature, I still expect to pay, but I'm a little wiser on where I go for the first date. Its just a learning process. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:59:53 AM | solace4ever,
Just as you stated you are not accustomed to paying all the time, maybe it's just the opposite for her...althought I do think it's very inconsiderate for her to not at least offer. You should definitely have a talk with her about this. From my experience, whoever asks should be the one who pays. I have asked a couple of guys out and always ended up not paying because they kept insisting to pay....this also happens when I offer to go half on the bill or want to pay for my own meal. I guess the men I come in contact with have a thing about paying with going out. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:02:05 AM | Once again into the fray!
Older and wiser woman here... don't make a date with a man you cannot afford to walk away from with your head held high! Your dignity is priceless!
As for the men who have responded.. jarl-in-pcola is a true Gentleman in every sense of the word.. he is the exact type on man you would want to spend your future with... sigh too young for moi'.... (I know your kids are the most important "thing" in your life.. but in a profile it kind of is telling a woman she's going to be second place... maybe change that to I love my kids with all my heart! and there are soo cool!, lol!)
I still advocate small inexpensive dates.. after all it means you can go out more often! One big night versus... Pizza versus Tacos.. nevermind it is the person you are getting to know.. even a day at the fleamarket or a walk through an art gallery.. a coffee at a book store.. or meet me at the beach.. with the sodas is still a date! If a man wanted me to re-imburse him for a soda... it would be the last time I'd see him!
I think the worse "cheap" date I ever had was the one who was asked if he wanted a drink at an free outdoor concert, said no.. and proceeded never to consider it again.. and sat there and enjoyed the music and dancing for a few HOURS and didn't spend a dime... an establishment is open for business... not freeloaders... so at least break out and buy a soda...lol! Ladies if ever in that position.. go up buy yourself a drink.. flirt with every dude around.. and take your time returning to the table... better yet.. find another way home... cheap cheap cheap... creep creep creep... is for the birds on a date!
A different generation here!
Girlflower
on dating hiatus! | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:20:45 AM | This thread reeks gender equality.
Yes, 100 USD outings are way too expensive, might as well fly her to Paris for breakfast!
He/she who asks out pays? Who wrote that rule, for what and in which century?
After 3 days and in the name of good communications in rels, this issue must finally be sorted out and whatever is the result, so be it. Maybe eat at a Dutch restaurant! | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:45:00 AM | This topic has been done to death but here's my summarized opinion:
1) First Date - Asker pays, unless it was a mutually-decided date, at which point have at it as to who gets to grab the check 
2) Second Date - The original asker might still pay, but presumably if the Asked AGREED to go out YET AGAIN, that would mean they are starting to like the Asker as well, so why NOT treat them back? 
3) Third Date+ - If you are STILL hanging out with them by this point, you are either interested, or simply like the free outings. If you're interested back, you should WANT to contribute. If you're not interested, what the heck are you STILL doing leading them on? 
The important thing to keep in mind here is that the person who initially asked may not necessarily be all that into you - you've simply piqued their interest, and that is a far cry from head-over-heels love. So naturally the first date is an attempt to get to know you better. But once you start seeing each other again and again, presumably you're into them as well, so why should they be paying for all the outings? It is at the point that MUTUAL-INTEREST develops that some sort of pay-equity should be reached, unless one partner is rich and the other poor.  | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 7:54:59 AM | I come from the old school and have since learned to negotiate it on the first meeting. I always say that I will go out with them "dutch treat". That means each pays for themselves.
If there are subsequent outings we can negotiate prior to the outing. Be honest. Money and emotions are two things that can derail a good thing really fast. You have a budget and stick to it. There are other things to do that don't cost an arm, a leg, or $100.00. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 9:16:56 AM |
I come from the old school and have since learned to negotiate it on the first meeting. I always say that I will go out with them "dutch treat". That means each pays for themselves.
If there are subsequent outings we can negotiate prior to the outing. Be honest. Money and emotions are two things that can derail a good thing really fast. You have a budget and stick to it. There are other things to do that don't cost an arm, a leg, or $100.00.
In most cases, a first "date" is really a meeting from a site such as this, and that surely doesn't have to be very expensive.
If it progresses, I find it acceptable for the "asker" to pay, and of course, in this day, the "askee" can subsidize, such as getting tip, drinks, or whatever
Just my bit | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 2:58:14 PM | lol well as long as we are talking about expectations, which are in and of themselves corrupt thinking patterns, how many women would go on dates if they knew roght fromthe start whether they liked the other person or not that they would b paying the tab for the night?
it isnt like mid date when the other party hasnt turned out to be what u wanted that u can say hold on im no longer interested heres your bill.
its truly funny reading what some women write as so gentleman like and her selfish female expectations , that if a man wants to go out somewhere with her hed better cough up the coin to feed her.
sorry but self respect isnt merely a female trait
this type of thinking is typical of most american women , who are more inclined to expect payment up front from any man desperate enuf to take her out somewhere
gentleman is just another word for sap and sucker and sugar daddy
if u want to sit at home and play at female escort service then at least be upfront about it and provide a chrge menu for your time
i still think no decent female has any expectation of a man paying her way , just prostitues do that
get off the throne princess you arent all that
ive been on lotsa dates and i also have an expectation, that she at least offer to pay . if she doesnt at least offer to pay there will be no second date anyways
every lesson costs a person something , if its just one meal to realize what kinda slob it is you are opayin for then its well worth it
also never 2nd date a woman that wont unlock your door for you, it shows she is selfish and only cares about herself | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 4:40:22 PM | | ^^^ That's funny about the car door. Except in most cars today the doors are all automaticall unlocked once the auto button is hit. Funny, I usually find myself going to unlock his side and it's already done. | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/11/2008 6:13:08 PM | haha well u obviously havent ridden in my old 48 chevy truck then eh
lol
besides i unlock the passenger side door with a key , im not mr fancy pants i suppose and tend to actually buy a vehicle for cash and refuse to try to impress other people with vehicles i wish i could afford but instead make payments on
people that live beyond their means set a bad example and create their own lil stress issues,
same idea tho , u can tell alot about a person and their personality,s by the way they handle theyre finances
a man that cant afford to pay his own way in life is no different than a woman that expects a man to pay her way on a date
pathetic
these people are just users, and take what they can from whatever sucker will give it to them
be it a lending establishment or some random person
hehe i bet u have no idea how them auto doorlocks work tho eh lol
i have em in one of my cars but i disabled them ages ago | |
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/12/2008 8:08:59 PM | trubblemakr, gentleman is actually another word for "man", "respectful", and "polite". And there you go throwing in that prostitution bs again. Now I myself am not at all familiar with a typical prostitution encounter, but does this mean that all these guys who pick up prostitutes off of a street corner are taking them to dinner first? I really doubt it. One has absolutely nothing to do with the other. It's an excuse and a very poor one at that. You should seriously study the posts written by rosesforyou and live by them. He could teach you a lot.
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| When should the woman start paying??
Posted: 1/12/2008 9:14:15 PM | A prostitute is someone that uses others for money and sometimes actually gives something for the money.
Someone, male or female, that expects someone to pay their way just because they are there and of the opposite sex is Using that person's emotions. The exact same way that a street walker would. Sure, it may be a different venue but it's the same old game.
I don't and haven't been with a prostitute for sex but I know the feeling by being used in the past by some female that thinks just because she's a female the male Has to Pay. That is BS.
A gentleman is mostly referred to culturally as someone that will make sure a female is safe, feeling happy, and taken care of. Being polite while doing that doesn't mean he is being respectful as he is demeaning that female and himself and anyone else that is involved in the sense that they think that is the thing to do. Archaic fits that definition of a gentleman and falls pretty much into the type of man that ends up paying because they don't have the brains enough to react to their gut feelings from the beginning.
Women should start paying when they want to go out on a date with a man. Why not? Money shouldn't be the issue and if it is a Turn On to be pampered and such why not wait till you have a relationship that is established and you Both like doing things that way. Romance has many costumes. Being a sucker to social whims as a man to pay just because you are a man is stupid. Now all those Mommy's Boys out there will feel that one deep and react badly as usual, just like the ladies brought up and or have decided to use men.
How would you like it ladies if a guy just thought for sure that you would pay for everything and take care of them? Think about that one before you knee jerk react. You wouldn't like it and some ladies on this forum thread have said they would leave him very quickly. Gee, how hypocritical, and sexist too. | |
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