| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/26/2005 9:09:45 PM | crime is dropping as a function of demographics - our populations' mean age is getting higher. people in their 40's and 50's commit fewer crimes.
technology has helped - i'm hoping this helps to catch the real perpetrators thus reducing crime bc law enforcement have better tools to prevent the arrest and incarceration of innocents thus leaving the real perp in the community to commit more crime.
forgive the edit - holy-moley yams, you have high hopes. deal with the issues that caused them to become sexual predators in the first place?? you're talkin' years of intense psychotherapy and drug therapies (if they take it), bc chances are they were victims as children themselves, or the victim of some family malfeasance. then go back another generation. never happen - govts are no longer willing to shell out that kind of cake for paedophiles. | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 127 | |
| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/26/2005 9:21:45 PM | To yams_mos
I wish our society was into preventive instead of reactive actions. Many of our mental health facilities have been closed in the last few years forcing the patients into jails because with out the meds many commit crimes, usually non-violent crimes such as trespassing and vagrancy.
If a preventive measure could be considered instead of allowing the crimes to just happen and then take action that would be ideal. I don’t think it is too much to ask.
We also need to find a way to deal with sexual predators now. Stop the chain and not pass it on to the next generation. Doctors know what the brain does but still don’t really understand enough about how it works. Until that day there will probably not be a cure for any mental illness.
I have a little experience with this because of my disorder. It was something I was born with and take full responsibility for.
I like the idea of at least using the ankle bracelets. With GPS monitoring becoming so common their may be a good way for the police to keep tabs on sexual predators.
I am looking for ideas right now. In the future I will be hoping to present ideas to a large group of people. It is very vague because I don’t know what I am doing but I am still going to do what I can.
Chuck | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/26/2005 9:26:18 PM | govts are no longer willing to shell out that kind of cake for paedophiles. Right. It's easier to simply pay to house them for a while and then try to humiliate them into not offending again. Because that works. Now, for all this to happen, victims are required, but hey. We might as well wait until they ruin at least ONE person's life before we "shell out any cake."
Money spent on the paedophiles for prevention is not FOR them. I personally think that people get too caught up on this issue; if we can help society or keep one kid safe by doing something from which a monster might also benefit, why would we resist on the premise of the monster not deserving it? It's like cutting off your nose to spite your face.
forgive the edit - holy-moley yams, you have high hopes. deal with the issues that caused them to become sexual predators in the first place?? you're talkin' years of intense psychotherapy and drug therapies (if they take it), bc chances are they were victims as children themselves, or the victim of some family malfeasance. then go back another generation. There's no easy, quick, or all-encompassing fix; I'm aware of that. Does that mean we shouldn't try to improve the situation that we're currently faced with?
I am still going to do what I can.
Chuck Good for you! :) | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 129 | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/26/2005 11:28:57 PM | yams, of course i agree with you on all points, but you realize as well as i do that all govts are moving to the right, ergo there is never enough money for social services or for those who work in field. short of some world-wide natural cataclysm, the left can only slow the pace of the "insidious oligarchic corporations" that rule the world.
paedophilia is a minor nuisance to them that they dont think affects their lives. | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/27/2005 4:05:17 AM | Of course I understand that, and there's never enough funding for social services, although now we're in a particular pickle. (you think it's a banana, but read: pickle.)
We've always had to do things with resistance from the right who IN GENERAL (not everyone) have the two priorities: "to punish" and "to not pay," and that's about it. You can't let that get to you; creativity!
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 132 | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 6:41:46 AM | I have been under the weather the last few days so it's been interesting reading catching up,....
Many of the responses are knee jerk reactions that many of us would like to see or do to pedifiles,...many of them leave no wriggle room for the cases where someone is arrested,... charged,...or convicted wrongly,....
We all like to think that our legal system has us innocent until PROVEN guilty,...but the truth is often just the reverse,....and anyone can accuse anyone of anything,....
I was accused of abusing my children,..by a neighbour who was peved at me for feeding crows,....who made a lot of noise if I forgot to put food out for them,...The noise from the birds disturbed him,.....
Had I not been an in-home nanny instructor,...who (luckily) had a student nanny in my home during the time I was supposed to be brutilizing my kids,....well,..I hate to think what might have happened,....had she not been there,....
Not everyone accused,...is guilty,....and unfortunately not everyone who is guilty is ever accused,....so the only workable answer is going to have to be,...that WE be ever vigilent and keep close watch on our children,....and EVERYONE ***WE*** bring into their lives,.... | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 9:55:37 AM | well you can live a long and happy life believing that,...and I hope you never find yourself facing the realization that what is legal and what is done often is not the same,...
and just to add a new wrinkle,...being right doesn't mean much either, more often than not,...
If you don't believe me try hanging out in a court room some time,....if nothing else,...it is most illuminating,...
accusations go a long way,....and who the accused is,....and who the accuser is,... makes a difference too,....that whole justice is blind thing,....well it's just not true,....some of the time at any rate,....and Canadians don't have the same kinds of rights they see on tv which is of course mostly American Justice,....so province to province and state to state there are varriables too,....it's nice to think that things aren't like that,....but the truth is they are.... | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 136 | |
| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 10:57:58 AM | Hopefully we will eventually be able to have preventive measures in place so that nobody will need to suffer at the hands of a sexual predator. I am thinking that it will take some personal responsibility for many to come forth when they realize that their brain has toughs and impulses that are not right.
People know when they have been dealt a bad hand, maybe not right away but before they ever commit any crimes, referring to mentally ill people who are violent offenders. It is something that can not be ignored.
When I first felt that I was going “crazy”, I thought I would get over it and did not pursue medical help or therapy of any sort. When it became a problem to even think straight for months at a time, I asked friends if it was normal. My girlfriend at the time said nothing was wrong with me. She was blind to it. My family could tell and other friends I had could tell. I got to where I couldn’t even work because my mind was too clouded with thoughts just racing around, thousands of them. I honestly didn’t know if I was coming or going. Then I took responsibility and got to a doctor. I was diagnosed and treated for bipolar. It’s simple if you’ve got a problem take charge of it. If I had ever had thoughts of hurting anyone on any level I would have gotten help sooner because it would have been a big red flag to me.
I chose to get help; too many people don’t and choose to abuse others instead. They know that they are sick but still they refuse. I don’t pity them, just as I don’t tolerate rude, mean, or selfish people. I also don’t put up with abusive people, at all. If I catch a pedophile in the act and die protecting a child, I would die with honor.
The signs are there before the crime is committed. On observation any good psychiatrist can tell in a short time what the illness is. With a little more time they find the severity and the ways to deal with it.
There is no cure for pedophilia. Keep these people from temptation and away from our kids but prison is not the place. Antipsychotics might be a good start along with better monitoring. Including them, people who will not take charge of their mental illness should be sent to prison. They know that they are sick, they just refuse to deal with it and they make the rest of us live with it instead.
Yes it is a rant, but it is a point I wish to make as well.
Chuck
Bipolar Married Guy | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 137 | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 11:54:09 AM | Loves.....and what happens if the child victim can't PROVE in court that he/she has been abused?
What happens when so called sane men and women will defend an abuser because he has hired the best lawyers money can buy ,even though he has been accused of such abuse over a twenty year period? aka Peter Pan?
And what happens when the world and his wife believes that a bit of self serving charity work far outweighs any amount of abused youngsters?
THe legal and jury system needs to be changed in the western world to PROTECT and NURTURE the young and innocent........not the evil and cunning abuser. | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 12:10:05 PM | The government exists to protect the rights and safety of its citizens, not its criminals.
Somewhere along the line in the last 25 to 35 years this this distinction was lost.
A criminal is a person who commits repeated felonies, especially of a larcenous or violent nature.
Such a person should not be an expense to society. Why should they even be allowed to live in the United States?
If a person gets caught raping multiple times or murders a person in cold blood, why should that person become an expense of our government to begin with? Why can't we just kick them out?
And if so where would they go? And how would other countries interprit our responsiblity for them if we disown them?
There are plenty of people who want into this nation badly who will actually obey the laws. Why do we have to let people who capriciously break them live here?
Someone please explain this. | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 141 | |
| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 12:18:08 PM | Meds won't do it. It depends on whether he tried to get help first or not. Either way the only way to deal with them is to keep them away from the kids. If they never sought help, I would recommend the toughest penalty allowed. Hopefully that would be a very long sentence. If they do try to get help I would study the situation and since we don’t have a cure we should still lock them up, for public safety and for their own.
I would also find out if they have marketable skills so they can do contract work from the confines of a safe place. Maybe they can earn their keep. There are ways to lock down a computer so that no unwelcome communication can get through.
I live near a few schools and looked at the map you mentioned earlier dallasguy99. It was sad how many pedophiles live within walking distance of the schools. Children that live within 2 miles of school have to pay to ride the bus or walk. Some of them are delivered by their parents. The school areas are clogged with parents dropping their children off, the traffic alone is a good reason to change this system. Most of the kids in my neighborhood seem to walk. That’s why I water my lawn in the morning as often as possible. Maybe an alert that the child could wear might help, something with an alarm and a transmitter. If it could be done in a way that will work for children. Since I have been in their situation I know a little about how it goes. I might have to look into that.
Don’t know the best way to do it, but I haven’t given it much though until recently. It was the only way I could get through my life as a former victim myself.
[quote>Loves.....and what happens if the child victim can't PROVE in court that he/she has been abused?
What happens when so called sane men and women will defend an abuser because he has hired the best lawyers money can buy ,even though he has been accused of such abuse over a twenty year period? aka Peter Pan?
And what happens when the world and his wife believes that a bit of self serving charity work far outweighs any amount of abused youngsters?
THe legal and jury system needs to be changed in the western world to PROTECT and NURTURE the young and innocent........not the evil and cunning abuser.
Irishmary,
It does happen, a lot. Favoritism is played quite often and the law works for those who can afford it. Like the old expression “Might makes right”. It is very wrong and needs to be fixed.
I was attacked more than once because I believed him when he said that he would kill my mother or my sister if I told anyone. I also knew that I was a kid and to me kids had no wrights, or at least not the credibility to get help against something like this. It was not the truth but it was implanted into my head by the attacker.
Still working on this guys. I guess I still have very strong feelings about these people. I don’t really know how the courts pursue cases such as these. It is something I need to educate myself on.
Chuck
Sorry for the long post. | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 12:25:17 PM | No one responded to my post which I felt had some merit.
There are plenty of people who want into this nation badly who will actually obey the laws. Why do we have to let people who capriciously break them (repeated offenders of violent crimes such as rape{includes molesters}) live here?
Seriously, it costs big money to run prisons. And also, why can't prisoners be made to earn their stay? Its only practical. I don't like paying taxes so that a convicted murderer can get new sneakers and eat cinnemon outmeal. Do any of you? | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 143 | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 145 | |
| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 12:34:49 PM | I want to see that. I would hate be on your bad side.
I was still typing when you posted.
OT: We can't send them anywhere, I wish we could. In the long and boring post i did a few minutes ago I did actually address that. Here is part of it.I would recommend the toughest penalty allowed. Hopefully that would be a very long sentence. If they do try to get help I would study the situation and since we don’t have a cure we should still lock them up, for public safety and for their own.
I would also find out if they have marketable skills so they can do contract work from the confines of a safe place. Maybe they can earn their keep. There are ways to lock down a computer so that no unwelcome communication can get through.
If I'm unclear, as I often am; let me know.
Chuck | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 12:57:57 PM | Dear La Loba,
I hope you would be at the best of your health. I read your reply and discussion regarding the subject noted above. I beleive Govt and states spend much of their money on actvities and programes to change offender's mind into a noble person but they are not acheiving their goal to my beleive. Will it not be better to work out religion methods and start training children and society members from religion point of view. If they start preaching religious teachings with educational teachings they might get some positive results.
Pls do let me know what are your views.
Truly
W.Afridi | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 1:18:44 PM | No one responded to my post which I felt had some merit.
Ok, I will give it a stab with my perspective.
The government exists to protect the rights and safety of its citizens, not its criminals. Somewhere along the line in the last 25 to 35 years this this distinction was lost. One doesn't lose citizenship when s/he's convicted, and is therefore still a citizen with protected rights. That has never been any different.
A criminal is a person who commits repeated felonies, especially of a larcenous or violent nature.
Such a person should not be an expense to society. Why should they even be allowed to live in the United States? If a person gets caught raping multiple times or murders a person in cold blood, why should that person become an expense of our government to begin with? Why can't we just kick them out? Because that's the way we do things. That's the way that our entire system is set up. If we were to change that, we'd effectively be restructuring our entire society. Forgive me if I am wrong, because I very well may be, but I believe you've spoken about incarceration before. Some people feel just as strongly about criminals who commit ANY crime as you do about violent repeat offenders. Should you be kicked out of the country? And forgive me if I'm remembering incorrectly; no offense is meant. Either way, let's just use it as an example, since it's about the topic, not you.
And if so where would they go? And how would other countries interprit our responsiblity for them if we disown them? I think that's part of the problem right there. Some sort of excommunication wouldn't work because no country in their right mind would accept them. Although I don't know where this is going, I feel like you're leading me down the path to try to justify more executions. lol
There are plenty of people who want into this nation badly who will actually obey the laws. Why do we have to let people who capriciously break them live here? We don't always let people live here who break laws. Only those who have the benefit of citizenship. I really don't see it as practical to handle it any other way. And it would be scary indeed if someone had a say whether you or I were allowed to stay here. What if there's an election gone horribly awry and those in power decide that people who practice Catholicism were no longer welcome for some reason?
Someone please explain this.
Well, that's my take.
I don't like paying taxes so that a convicted murderer can get new sneakers and eat cinnemon outmeal. Do any of you? Personally, I don't think it's worth it for me to worry about how the prisons are micromanaged. So no, it doesn't bother me what spices are used in one of the cheapest foods available.
I hope you would be at the best of your health. I read your reply and discussion regarding the subject noted above. I beleive Govt and states spend much of their money on actvities and programes to change offender's mind into a noble person but they are not acheiving their goal to my beleive. Will it not be better to work out religion methods and start training children and society members from religion point of view. If they start preaching religious teachings with educational teachings they might get some positive results.
Pls do let me know what are your views. It is unclear to me how Pakistan would handle this, but as you may know our government doesn't participate in religious indoctrination. | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 1:22:10 PM | Sending a convicted murderer to Sunday school is not going to make him a model citizen. Sorry, no sale.
Also, if you have read the Constitution you would know that in the very First Ammendment of the Bill of Rights the government is prohibited from regulating or instituting religion. That doesn't mean that the Government isn't ethically constructed, it just means its role is not to force citizens (even criminals) to observe particular religious views and customs against their will.
This proposition would actually strip normal law-abiding citizens of their most important rights. That would be a criminal offense of the state against its citizens. You don't help reform criminals by stripping law-abiding citizens of their rights and attempting to indoctrinate the entire population. That would simply make the government a criminal. | |
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BPMG
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Joined: 8/26/2005
Msg: 149 | |
| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 1:26:14 PM | I don't remember why prisoners no longer make license plates. They can still work even from behind bars. There are goods that could be sent to them for asembly and there is telecomuting. I know I'm being idealistic here so if someone wants to explain to me how I am wrong I would like to hear it.
My hands are still tired from typing such a ridiculously long and boring post earlier. I still regret doing that.
Chuck | |
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| Sexual Preditors and Pedifiles VS Drug Dealers/Probation Violators/Traffic Violators
Posted: 10/28/2005 1:32:08 PM | One doesn't lose citizenship when s/he's convicted, and is therefore still a citizen with protected rights. That has never been any different.
Where did I say it had been different and where did I say that they were not citizens? I am hypothetically proposing that there should be limits to what a person can do that if exceded should revoke their citizenship. Those limits should be at serious repeated felonies, not at jay walking or speeding tickets as you suggested in my case.
And where did your comment about excommunicating people based religious beliefs come from? How exactly did you extrapolate that from what I said? Very "creative" interpretation of my post.
You totally misunderstood my post or deliberately took it out of context. I'm not certain which so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.
Especially the comment about the spices. It was pretty obvious my comment meant that the prisoners should be made to earn the cost of keeping them (unless they are physically unable to do so) so that we don't have to pay those taxes for them. If you don't mind paying taxes for them, trust me others do.
I don't remember why prisoners no longer make license plates. They can still work even from behind bars. There are goods that could be sent to them for asembly and there is telecomuting. I know I'm being idealistic here so if someone wants to explain to me how I am wrong I would like to hear it.
That is not quixotically idealistic at all. Its rational and pragmatic. The role of the government is to first protect its law-abiding citizens and their rights, not criminals. Its a matter of simple priority. I don't see it as being logical or just that law-abiding citizens should be made to pay for the housing and food of convicted felons when they CAN be made to earn the cost.
The construction of the facilities may be beyond what criminals can earn back, but the cost of the food and shelter isn't. Hell, they can grow the food and materials to make the clothing at the prisons, especially if an agricultural network is set up.
And Yams_mos, your argument about "well some people think everyone should be locked up" is not a rational premise. Some people think the world is flat. So what. Does that mean they should cancel all flights between the Western North America and Eastern Asia? So that planes won't fall off the Earth? | |
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