| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 5:29:28 AM | | @crownie-- the pens are in good shape cap wise and should be for a while. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 7:51:47 AM | ^^^^
Certainly they're in good shape right now. That's because all their stars are 20 years old! But therein lies the problem. There's little if any chance of the Penguins being able to keep (long term, ie. 10 years) Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Whitney, Christienson Fleury, not to mention the likes of Esposito, who they drafted this year.
All those kids become restricted, then unrestricted within 2 years of each other. The Pens' cap room shrinks exponentially next year when they renegotiate Crosby's contract. That's the thing about the "new" NHL...with the salary cap, dynasties are nearly impossible to construct. Same with the NFL...with the exception of the New England Patriots, who are clearly the exception to the rule, there are new contenders every season. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 2:58:03 PM | for once i agree with joker.
the problem with the pens is going to be they have to win and do it in the next few years, even if a few are going to be willing to give home team discounts the pens wont be able to sign them all. or if they did. the supporting cast would have to be on rookie contratcs makes it hard when with finishing higher you have to draft later. or just not as good vets.
game 1 in the books and sutter as coach still unbeatin in international play. brandon sutter had some amazing defencive play. masson looked weak on the 2 goals but held his own the rest of the game. russia completly outplayed canada in the first 10 but after scoring the first 2 it was pretty much all canada in a 4-2 win. however canada had to kill off 2 5 on 3's and many other 5 on 4's better stay out of the box for game 2 other wise running into the problem of wearing out some key pk's.
go canada go
in b sutter we trust
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 3:20:10 PM | you guys are a hoot. all of a sudden it is a "problem" to have that much young talent last time i checked the whole league plays under the cap and said cap will increase. i guess it is to your advantage if your favorite team has a bunch of guys that are worth next to nothing. that way you never have to worry about losing them thats why some guys like ugly girls. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 4:51:40 PM | notice how tampa has 3 players all at top dollar contracts. how they can not compete now do to having to much tied up 3 superstars. ther is nothing wrong with having great young talent but you will not be able to keep all the kids much past when there rookie contracts are up and they are demanding top dollar.
saying the pens are going to win means nothing. wait till they can back it up. they have some good kids but need some vets and alot of other peices of the puzzle to be a contender.
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 6:03:06 PM |
@crownie-- the pens are in good shape cap wise and should be for a while.
Not likely. Malkin and Staal are still under the rookie cap of 850k per season for the next two seasons. after that, they'll be making upwards of 4 or 5 million (or more, if the Vanek deal is an indication).
Pittsburgh won't be able to afford them when guys like Crosby, Staal, Malkin, Whitney, Fleury, etc. are all in their prime (ages 27 to 32). Just look at the Senators, having to let Chara go when both he and Redden were up for UFA, and having to let Havlat walk because he wanted money they couldn't afford to pay him. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 6:09:41 PM | "you guys are a hoot. all of a sudden it is a "problem" to have that much young talent"
The PROBLEM is having a bunch of young talent that all hits the RFA/UFA market in the same season. Go ahead...but don't take my word for it Filthy, ask Darcy Regier. He'll tell you all about it. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 7:08:27 PM | hey i'm not clearing my calander for the cup finals for the next 10 years. but to say that too much young talent is a problem is ridiculous. do you really think they would let all of those guys just walk away? you have heard of trades right? and when to trade? and no, i won't take your word for it. your killin' me | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 7:53:40 PM | trade for what though? another top player that is going to also put the cap up. trade for draft pics or prospects not a bad move but risky. you want top trade value its coming soon. next 5 years at least 2 are gone.
no one said having good young players is bad. just that you are going to lose a few of them so the team you look at that you think has the skill to win a few cups will not look the same in a few years.
your fighting pretty hard for the pens being the next dynasty team, when they really havnt done much. you need more then some skillful kids to be a dynasty. try start winning one cup then having a great squad come back the next season and win the cup then you can start your talk.
see the pens scoring got them into the playoffs but lack of other departments sent them golfing. sens out scored the pens 18-10 in 5 games thats only 2 gaa for the pens in the playoffs looked way out classed, even worse then the flames did and we got a beat down by the wings. heck the only team the pens did alittle beter then in the playoffs was the Thrashers that were out in 4.
all i am saying is the pens have to get a few peices of the puzzle before they could be called contenders. some more experince wont hurt 2 but then you run into a window of the experince that comes with age and the contacts going up. so you lose peices on the way.
look at the ducks last year a nice mix of vets and young guys. thats what all teams should have if they want a good way to win. you need leadership not just some 20 year old captain that hasnt been there before. sorry kid but this is the nhl it takes alot to win a cup.
your pens have to score alot othersie they could not win. 15th of all 16 teams to make playoffs worst in goals against. only tampa was behind the pens in playoff teams. and once again tampa like to have 3 top players instead of a well suited offence/DEFENCE.
hahhahahaha
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 8:04:23 PM | | i'm not fighting for them to be a dynasty at all. i don't know where you think i said that. i am saying the future looks very bright for them. i hope i'm not sensing the anti american sentiment that is prevailant in hockey. because pittsburgh is a good hockey town. the fans here understand the game and the economics of it. and i do know what it takes to win a cup. i've seen a couple raised right here!!!!!! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 8:19:49 PM | no i dint say you said them to be a dynasty but thats what island and i started off the comments about,
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 9:09:47 PM | "do you really think they would let all of those guys just walk away?"
Like I said, ask Darcy Regier.
I'm killing you? That's funny, because from this seat it looks like you're killing yourself - at least in terms of this argument | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 9:36:58 PM | | no jokey, you are still a hoot . and there is no argument just your meaningless opinion. you should pick a higher seat | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/27/2007 9:53:07 PM | funny, if my opinion is so meaningless, why do you continually feel compelled to respond to it?
What makes you look the most foolish, is that just this morning, (Post 4153), you agreed with me an this very issue. Pick a side of the fence and stay on it there filth. I would give your opinions a little more credibility. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 2:29:59 AM | that post consisted of 5, countem,5 words. what i resopnded to was your overstatement of how a salary cap works. the point, and bear with me or read slowly whatever works for you, was not how a cap works. but rather that the pens were in good shape capwise and should be for a while. that is not even an opinion. that is a fact. something else you may(or may not) want to factor in is smart buisness decisions by management. that may be more of a challenge for you, but find someone who can help you. i'm sure there is a high school near you. the pens will eventually lose some of the young talent. some of that talent may not be what it seems right now and some talent may not have even revealed itself yet. it is the nature of sports at any level. but the you don't need me to tell you that, or do you ? | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 6:49:30 AM | *cough cough* backpeddle
*cough cough* oops
*cough cough* idiot
"that post consisted of 5, countem,5 words."
Yep...one of your best posts ever | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 6:56:11 AM | | i hope you haven't resorted to name calling. thats usually what people in your "position" do. but then you're above that right? | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 8:21:11 AM | i think the point here is that teams like the Pens have only a 'window of opportunity' to cash in on the holy grail.
Tampa is definitely a good example of what happens when you have to pay big bucks for the big 3 on your club. Sabres as well. it's a bit of a catch-22. Build yourself a good little hockey club and try to get to the top of the mountain with it before you're raided.
As for the hometown discount, I don't believe anyone on this club is from the Pittsburgh area, so that point is moot. the hometown discount was originally used as a term where a prairie boy, say for example Ryan Smith, would settle for less.
Darcy (aka Sideshow Bob) Tucker may have given the leafs a hometown discount this past year now that he's happily married to Shane Corson's sister from the barrie area.
Pens need a bit of muscle in their lineup, but they'll be definitely in the playoff mix come April. Two years from now could be a different story when the other GM's start unabashedly offering big bucks to the individual stars. The sense of urgency to take it to the mountaintop has to be paramount with hockey coaches today. Lindy Ruff will not be as loud a mouth as he has been in the past few years now that his team has literally been raped. Sens can expect a downward turn this year i anticipate only because there's often a bit of a dropoff after a season like they just had. plus they've never taken my advice in signing a couple of Stanley-Cup hardened veterans that know the road to the top.
Someone like a gary roberts on the squad (assuming he managed to stay healthy thru the playoffs) could have possiblyshaken the lethargy out of the Sens in the Finlas and made for a much better final than what was clearly a disappointing finish. They clearly lacked veteran leadership in the Finals, playing very much like the deer in the headlights. Alfy made a good attempt, but to me he's not the leader, nor ever has been for that matter, to take a club to the top. You've got to have a guy to show you the way.
People like Roberts, Yzerman, neidermayer, Joey nieuwendyk, Messier, Scott Stevens, Roddy brindamour. These are the types of guys both the Pens and Sens need on their rosters to take it to the top...Guys that have been there before.
Now back to your arguement...erm...discussion. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 10:05:10 AM | | interestingly enough roberts was offered more money to move on but chose to stay with the pens. you don't suppose an old veteran would want to go where his best shot at the cup is do you? | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 10:41:05 AM | He probably likes a lot of the enthusiasm from the younger kids on the squad. Plus it's not playing under a microscope since the Pens are like second or third fiddle in Pittsburgh as opposed to the only game in town in Ottawa.
i would have picked them as well if I'd been in his shoes. The ottawa fans that I know of personally are still a bit much like Blue jay fans in the late 80's and even in the championship years. They could recite all the stats and the lineup, but didn't truly understand the fundamentals of baseball like, for example, never being the first or third out at third base, freeze on a line drive, defensive outfield alignments and shifts...; that type of thing.
Roberts in Ottawa would have had the fans thinking and expecting him to carry them on his shoulders to the promised land. It's the only sport in town for them so they seem consumed with their beloved Sens. Good little franchise, but still a lot of 'dumb to hockey' fans. It would have been nothing but stress and aggravation for him there.
i don't find the Ottawa team full of enthusiasm anymore, or really at any time during this ten year run they've had knocking at the door. Folks like redden and Alfy have losing too ingrained into their psychi it seems. Sometimes i watch them and they seem to be more afraid of getting beat than actually going out there and winning...and they seemd to get a bad case of stagefright in the Finals and poof, before they knew it they were down 0-2 and that's a tough hole to dig yourself out of unless you've got some real character in the dressing room, which I don't happen to think they have an overabundance of. Spezza, heatley, redden...real good flashy regular season players, but the finals proved out they need more backbone.
To me the Pens need more muscle. Right now the east is a toss up with perhaps my pick at this stage being the Strangers, but I'm not entirley sold on their coach or their defensive corps. Their coach is good for regular season action but not much experience in going deep into the playoffs which again is acquired learning. Pens have as good a chance as any if they beef up their lineup a bit more.
EDIT: Plus roberts isn't stupid. The worm turns in this league. The Pens are on the way up. Sens aren't and neither are the Sabres. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 10:48:49 AM | The Pens are still a rock-solid stay at home defenseman or two away from being legitimate Cup contenders. They have the raw talent up front, and guys like Whitney and Gonchar can supply offense from the back end. But until they have guys that can do the job in their own zone, they won't win.
And that's when cap issues come into play. Sure, with their current roster, they're fine *right now*. But can they afford to add a Jay McKee or a Willie Mitchell or an Adam Foote, on top of their existing salaries? | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 11:41:44 AM | | they have more room then their talent level suggests they have. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 2:11:24 PM | Unless the Pens win the Cup within the next two seasons, you'd be surprised.
Malkin and Staal's entry level contracts are up in two years, and they won't be making only the $850k or less that they're making now. Look at the jump in Sid's deal. He went from $850 this upcoming season, to what, $9 million the following?
So yeah, the only way the Pens become a "dynasty" is if they start winning the Cup *now*.
Ps. I'm not sure if you were the one that mentioned dynasty, but it was mentioned in this thread, and thus why I commented on it. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 8/28/2007 2:23:52 PM | | i never used the word dynasty. i don't even use it to describe the greatest football team ever assembled. (the 70's steelers). it absolutely blows my mind that people will play the "yeah but..." card . when nothing has been won yet and no one has left yet. | |
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