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 Author Thread: Hockey anyone?
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4226
view profile
History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/1/2007 10:34:26 PM
the Avery fight for Tucker was a draw and in the Jansen fight, even though Jansen got tagged with a cut on his cheek, he clearly landed way more good punches. I'll give it to Tucker for standing in there and going toe to toe with him. But still, you're missing the whole point and that's fine.

So long as you do realize that by mentioning these scraps you're just making the whole point about the Leaf team lacking toughness. First off he's your second leading scorer. A paltry 24 goals I admit, but the second leading scorer nonetheless. And he has to stick up for Sundin and most of the rest of the club.

After Belak and Tucker there is no more grit to the hockey club. Hal Gill can handle himself in most situations, but a lot of guys have put a beating on him over the years. After that, there's no one.

See pucks, I've been down this road before with a guy called Wendel Clarke. A talented gifted tough hockey player that played half hurt half the time when he was in the lineup and was forced to retire way before he should have because he killed his body for his wimpy Leafs. He stood up to McSorley in the Western finals back in 93 against gretzky's Kings and that was pretty much his swan song. Because few others on the roster could stick up for themselves on the ice his career ended probably at least 5 to 7 years earlier than it should have thru the constant pounding of being forced into that role against the heavyweights.

Bell and Blake provide more grit. You yourself admitted Tucker's a smaller framed player at only 178 pounds. Not a good size to be the 2nd enforcer on an NHL squad. But a lack of toughness puts him in that spot. Mark bell at 6'4 and 205 pounds is a big addition.But they need more.

The point of posting all the utube links was for you to see firsthand that by the end of Domi's career, this team has no one after Belak and Tucker, and those two can barely hold their own at when it comes time to sticking up for the hockey club. That's why it keeps missing the playoffs. It lacks heart. It lacks guts. Look at the way the Sens run up the score on the Leafs the last two years. The Leafs are not even on the ice against the Sens any more. They may as well mail the two points in rather than suffer more embarrassments. They get beaten up on the ice and they get beaten up on the scoreboard. Nothing else much matters.

The team is crawling with a bunch of wet behind the ears Kyle Wellwoods, and these Kyle Wellwoods aren't being allowed ro play the game their built to play because the other teams aren't letting them.
The team still lacks the necessary leadership and toughness. This team still needs to make some personnell moves to contend for the long haul.

Possibly clearing out Raycroft, McCabe, Antropov, ONeil, and possibly Gill's big contract for a successful journeyman forward and a stud defenceman and another journeyman defenceman. The Leafs defensive play was abysmal in most third periods last year so they need bigtime help in the defensive area. Why they signed Colaiocovo to a three year deal is beyond me. Especially when they could have bagged free agent d-man +60+ Tom Priesing from Ottawa.

This would also open up enough cap room to bring Forsberg in. Forsberg by the way, hasn't played any significantly less games the last two years than Tucker has. Tucker is hurt often because of sticking up for his team. Not the role he should be, or need be, playing for the team. Tucker, by the way, hasn't played a full season since the 01 season.

Here; as dumb as some leaf fans can sometimes be, they're still Leaf's fans.

Tie domi fights
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GgGJ9bnyN4Q

Tie Domi Tribute Video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytC3JxQcDWA&mode=related&search=

Tie Domi - A Tribute To A Legend
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AvhMJnEtL-Y&mode=related&search=

Memories of Tie Domi
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bpHWCslS5A&mode=related&search=

PROBERT VS DOMI - ROUNDS 1-9
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfSB-v-Vy2g&mode=related&search=

Tie Domi vs. Rob Ray
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=leFHd7WY_0k&mode=related&search=

Sean Avery vs. Darcy Tucker
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j6_IpCgMrpM

Tucker vs Janssen fight
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtFYIkp0vog
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4227
long post ahead
Posted: 9/1/2007 11:13:35 PM
Bell and Blake will indeed help with grit and toughness.
Toskola in net looks will help solidigy things in goal.

Forsbery? geez why? He certainly does not add toughness that you say the leafs need so bad.
Raycroft is expendable. He was inconsistent last year. I think Fergie should trade him and bring in a power forward.

Why couldnt the leafs bring a rookie up as a 4th liner/checker...Salary would be low and the farm system must have some tough guys to help out in the toughness area.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4228
view profile
History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/1/2007 11:32:52 PM
"""Forsbery? geez why?"""
Because Forsberg is cut from the same cloth as Tucker. Only better material. Forsberg is an elite class hockey player that has played the very same as Tucker has, only he's managed to rack up a lot more points, a lot more awards, and a lot more championships, in the process. Their games played and penalty minutes are roughly the same. He'll do what it takes to get it done. Or almost die trying . A weapon.

Forsberg and sakic were to the Avs what gretzky and Messier, Trottier and Bossy, Yzerman and Shanahan, Niedermayer and Pronger, Nieuwendyk and Modano, Lemieux and Jagr, and so many other good one two combinations were. Lethal. Forsberg's a championship player, like a championship horse.

i was at a bushfire last night and two Sens chums up for the week on business were there as well. They both looked like they shit a brick when i asked them what they thought of the Leafs big signing of Forsberg. Haha The immediate look in their eyes was too funny. They know what comes with the Forsberg package.

And thre's still lots of gas left in that tank. Sundin will talk him into coming.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4229
long post ahead
Posted: 9/1/2007 11:45:12 PM
Points taken.
Forsberg is only valuable if he stays off the injured list.
Is there cap room for his salary? He be in the what....6 million range ?.....Didnt think the leafs had the room.
They'll have to trade Raycroft and one of their expensive defencemen...McCabe, Kubina or Gil.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4230
long post ahead
Posted: 9/1/2007 11:55:26 PM
Sly, the other thing that concerns me about Forsberg is he is getting old. He is not in his prime anymore. Kinda like Sundin who is dewindling.
Sure your right he is a good player and had some success in the past but look at what he's done lately.
Phili was not a good stay for him.
And his short tenure in Nashville he did squat.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4231
long post ahead
Posted: 9/1/2007 11:57:44 PM
Oh and i heard a couple days ago on tsn that Naslund (who is Swedish as well) is trying to lure Forsberg to Vancouver.
Dammit, sorry, i should of put this in one post but i remembered this after the fact.
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4232
long post ahead
Posted: 9/2/2007 12:23:31 AM
Raycroft may be expendable but do you really want to trade him? Isn't he only making something like 1.5M? It really doesn't address any salary cap issue by trading him and by keeping him you may have the best 1-2 punch in net in the entire league. That's not to say Toskala is the best goalie in the league but Raycroft would certainly rank in the top-five back-ups in the league. To have such a goalie tandem at less than $6M combined I think is one of Toronto's strong points.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4233
long post ahead
Posted: 9/2/2007 12:51:28 AM
ya your right, Raycroft's salary is reasonable....its 1.8 Million.
You make a good point about having a good 1-2 tandem.

McCabe is over paid though.
Gil and Kubina's contract are pretty hefty too.
Leafs just inked a new defencemen from Chicago...Not a big name but i cant remember his name at the moment so perhaps unloaded a high paid dman would free up some cap room to bring in someone like Forsberg?
 goaliebns

Joined: 1/29/2007
Msg: 4234
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History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/2/2007 5:16:55 AM
Leafs have to get rid of Tucker ( I am sure they can find someone else to dive). Sundin the Floater, when is the last time you saw him get involved in a play. McCabe is fine but I agree over paid. Kaberle, depends which one shows up that night. The goaltending isn't the problem, they just need more time to mature. The Leafs should make a clean sweep of the Old guard and keep investing in Wellwoods. Do like the Sens did keep a core group of young guys and let them develop. Quit trying to buy guys who used to be good hoping they have one last year in them.. Enough bandaids.. Oh wait as a Sens fan keep doing what they are doing..
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4235
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/2/2007 7:05:55 AM
figured I'd better post something to switch the title to the thread back to what it was
Soooo, here's Paul maurice claiming he wants his team to be, amongst other things, tougher this year:

Coach confronts the Leafs' issues


"I expect we will make the playoffs and challenge for the Stanley Cup," he sincerely predicts.

Playoffs, fine. But the Cup? Critics might wonder what spirits the coach is putting into his morning coffee after that statement.

"Here's why I feel that way," he says. "We want to have the identity of being a tough team to play against. If that's the case, we'll know how to be successful in the playoffs because that's the way we would have played all year."
Agree with him or not, Maurice means it.

"I think Ottawa and Carolina are the class of the East," he says. "The Rangers and Flyers improved themselves, too. I just feel we have bolstered our team in certain key areas. "Hey, we just missed out by one point a year ago and I feel we are a better team now."

In order for his Leafs to take the next step, there are a number of issues Maurice must deal with once camp kicks off.
And here is how he plans on facing each and every one of them:

THE CROWDED CREASE

The moment Paul Maurice holds his first press conference of camp, you can bet he'll be grilled concerning the identity of his No. 1 goalie.

The off-season acquisition of Vesa Toskala logically suggests he'll step right into the starter's role over fan scapegoat Andrew Raycroft, but Maurice warns the job will not just be handed over to the former San Jose Shark.

"We needed more depth in goal," Maurice says. "We did not want to put Andrew in the position to play 72 games, again.
"I think Andrew is going to have a big year. Last year, he had to deal with coming into the spotlight of the Toronto market, not to mention all the questions about his previous year (in Boston). This time around, from what I've seen, he looks really focussed.

"Vesa makes our team better. He might be No. 1, but Andrew might be, too. Both have something to prove. Vesa must show he can carry the load as a starter and Andrew must show he can bring his game to a higher level."

AGING MATS

With 36-year-old Mats Sundin facing unrestricted free agency this summer, might it have been better to let the big Swede walk and use the money for a younger potential centrepiece of the Maple Leafs puzzle?
Not according to Maurice, who feels his captain remains one of the league's most skilled competitors.
Maurice only hopes some of Sundin's leadership load can be alleviated by the younger players on the roster.

"What he delivered for us on and off the ice last year was vital," the coach says. "Not only was he our leading scorer, but when we had injury problems and young guys were coming up to replace them, Mats was great at accepting them and making them feel a part of the team.
"I just would like to see some of the kids learn and take over some of his leadership duties, not just the Bryan McCabes and Tomas Kaberles."

WHAT'S MY LINE?

The addition of free-agent 40-goal sniper Jason Blake had bloggers all over the internet listing the dream combination of Blake, Sundin and Darcy Tucker as their choice to make up the team's top unit.
While it might look good on paper, Maurice isn't about to put all of his premium eggs in one basket.
"We have to move Darcy around," he says. "We can't be a one-line team."

Maurice admits the speedy Blake likely will start alongside Sundin, although the newcomer might see action on Kyle Wellwood's flank, as well. Sundin and Blake are expected to be joined by either Nik Antropov or Alexei Ponikarovsky, with the odd man out finding himself on a line with Wellwood and Tucker.

The Leafs were high on Ryan Smyth entering free agency, but love what Blake brings to the table. "He adds something different," Maurice said of Blake. "Ryan Smyth is a great player but Jason brings a lot of speed. We're a big team and always can use some of that. "He'll be a great complement to Mats."

KUBINA CONUNDRUM

In the waning stages of last season, there was a school of thought making the rounds that the Leafs should ship Pavel Kubina and his $5-million salary to the AHL Marlies, thereby creating cap room. That idea is quickly rejected by Maurice, who feels the former Tampa Bay defenceman will regain the form that helped the Lightning win the Cup in 2004.

"I'm looking for Kubina to have a big season," Maurice says. "Most people have no idea how long he played hurt last season. A pulled groin, a knee injury, a broken finger ... Not to sound like an excuse, but he had more than his share of adversity last season."

KID STUFF

Alex Steen and Kyle Wellwood once again represent the Leafs youth movement up front. As such, they can expect some pressing demands from their vocal coach.

Wellwood's challenge: Stay out of the trainer's room.
"I think Kyle's next step is playing 80 games,"Maurice says. "As such, we're going to pressure him to do that."
In Steen's case, it's time for the young Swede to showcase his wheels.
"I think Alex went through a learning process last year," Maurice says. "Now it's time where I want to see his speed. He can't think so much, he's just got to react."

THE NUMBERS GAME

When it comes to stats, shootouts don't overly concern Maurice.
Maurice hopes the addition of Blake and Toskala will help improve the team's 4-7 shootout record, but quickly points out that "Ottawa and Anaheim had losing shootout records, too, and still made the final."
The key to making the playoffs, according to the coach, is shaving off some of the 269 goals allowed by his Leafs last season.
"Of the top 16 teams who allowed the least goals last season, 15 made the postseason,"Maurice said. "Tampa was the only exception."

FRONT-OFFICE FOLLIES

It would be naive to think Maurice is not aware of some of the board room battles within Maple Leaf Sports and Entertainment Ltd. While the differences in opinion between the Richard Peddie and Larry Tanenbaum factions are well-documented, general manager John Ferguson has endured a summer of knowing the front office was hunting for a so-called "mentor" for him.

Can Maurice tune all of this out?
"From the board of directors to John, myself, the players, trainers, front office staff, the No. 1 priority is to win," Maurice says.

WHIPPING BOY MCCABE

Bryan McCabe has become the whipping boy of Leafs Nation.
No Toronto player is booed more lustily by the home crowd, although Raycroft and defenceman Hal Gill also periodically felt the fans' venom.
"When things are not going good, those are the guys who take the heat," Maurice says.

"In Bryan's case, there are a couple of reasons. First, he wears the 'A' on his jersey. Secondly, people look at his (almost $6 million US per season average) salary.
"But understand this. Bryan once again was one of the league's top scoring defencemen (57 points) last season, a commodity most teams would clamour to have. He is such a valuable ingredient to our team."

RING THE BELL

Given newcomer Mark Bell's recent legal issues, Maurice understands the one-time 25-goal scorer will be under public scrutiny the moment the first puck is dropped.
"In a situation like this, everone has a part to play," Maurice says. "Society and the legal system have played their part. Obviously, it's a serious issue.

"For my part, I'm going to support him as much as possible. We want this place to be one where he can come and feel comfortable, and I think some of that already is built into our room. Our leaders have created an environment where he feels safe. That's the case not just for Mark but for every player. The room should be a refuge for these guys."

On the ice, Maurice does not expect another 25 goals from Bell, although he'll gladly take them.
"We just want him to make our team a tougher one to play against," said Maurice, who is toying the idea of having Bell centre a line with Alex Steen and, possibly, Boyd Devereaux. "Mark's not going to be judged by numbers after 20 games. He's a valuable physical guy who will play all over."

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2007/09/02/4465398-sun.html

ps. Alfie's trying to talk Foppa Forsberg into coming to Ottawa as well. but I don't believe they have any cap room presently either unless they can unload Gerber.
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4236
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/2/2007 9:35:11 AM
You changed the name of the thread one posting too early
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4237
long post ahead
Posted: 9/3/2007 12:18:29 PM
"Leafs have to get rid of Tucker"

Ummm, sorry to burst your bubble but that will not be happy. He was just resigned to a multi year player.

"Sundin the Floater, when is the last time you saw him get involved in a play"

That is a pretty ignornant statement. Considering Sundin has averaged a point a game over his whole career. He continues to lead the Leafs in scoring year and year. Inconsistent at times he is, but that is more so due to the fact that he has had little support and it seems he is expected to do everything.

"Quit trying to buy guys who used to be good".

this statement i do agree with. A forsberg at the end of his career, old, injury proned will have little value to the leafs. Invest in their young guns and get rid of players like Oneil. Time to bring good gritty players like Deveraux up.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4238
long post ahead
Posted: 9/3/2007 12:19:55 PM
^^i need more coffee. sorry for the typos. Should say will not be happening. And tucker was signed to a multi year deal.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4239
view profile
History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/3/2007 2:20:09 PM
Hossa was signed to multi year deal hours before they dealt him to Atlanta for Heatley. Multi year deals don't mean d1ck unless your special like McCabey baby with his no trade clause.

Pucks don't be letting goaliebins contaminate your thinking. He's a died in the wool Sens fan. He would grab Forsberg in a heartbeat if he knew the Sens could bag him.

If he's so washed up why are Naslund, Sundin and Alfy all lobbying him and their respective managements to go after him??? Maybe it's a swedish conspiracy thing. You think?
 BlueShirtBabe

Joined: 8/18/2006
Msg: 4240
view profile
History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/3/2007 9:04:13 PM
More problems in leaf land..... Their new problem child has been suspended without pay...........

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=217553&hubname=

Mark Bell.... Sad story......
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4241
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/4/2007 10:57:29 AM
SJ Sharks ink JR.
Apparently he is not ready to retire. Glad to see no Canadian teams signed this old American.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4242
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/4/2007 8:49:36 PM
Blueshirt,
There is no problem with Bell. This incident stemed from his days as a SJ shark in 2006. His (hit and run charge) DUI happened in California. The leafs and Ferguson were well aware of it.
Bell is skating with his team as was on the ice today. He is expected to be in training camp with little to no suspension. If he is suspended it will be minor from what i have read.
I find it interesting that you bring up this incident but do not mention so many other drug or alcohal related incidents. Look at Gretz & Tocchet. Or how about this week Boowmeester of Florida Panthers being charged with a DUI as well.
Only coz many people like the leafs do you bring up the Bell incident.
Anyway, Bell has been clean for over a year and this should not affect the start of the season. Im looking forward to seeing this big power forward in action.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4243
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/4/2007 8:56:32 PM
Whoops J. Gretzky and Tocchet were gambling,,,not alchoal or drugs. Please spare me the rebuttel here. Im aware of it but you still get my point. Lots of other high profile nhl stars having addictions and problems to deal with.
Yet you bring up a leaf.
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4244
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/4/2007 9:45:44 PM
Since when is Janet Gretzky a high-profile NHL star? I can't recall...which team did she play for?
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4245
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/4/2007 9:53:34 PM
Didnt you know she played on that line with JR and Nolan
The old fogie trio.
 grog27

Joined: 2/25/2005
Msg: 4246
view profile
History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/4/2007 10:16:44 PM
Looks like this thread is well past its "Best Before" date, judging by recent posts. Time to reboot, guys.
 goaliebns

Joined: 1/29/2007
Msg: 4247
view profile
History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/5/2007 4:36:14 AM
The Floater is past his prime. His best +/- season was his first year as a Captain at +22.. Down hill ever since to last year a -2. The leafs did better last year with him off the ice then on the ice.

Stay Healthy Sundin


Hmm you never hear the T.O. media saying a bad word against their captain.. Even when he tosses a broken stick in the audience and almost hurts a young girl. No he is a hero for visiting her the next day.. Lucky he didn't get sued.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4248
long post ahead
Posted: 9/5/2007 9:19:53 AM
^^^^yup coz everybody in TO loves Mats.

 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4249
long post ahead
Posted: 9/5/2007 2:26:19 PM
"even when he tosses a broken stick in the audience"

Sundin made a mistake. Even he himself said he reacted out of emotion. This is the only incident that i know of where Mats was unsportsmanlike. Overall most would agree that he is a good role model for the game.

Can you say the same about your captino? Ummmm no...Remember Alfie's slapshot at i believe Neidermeyer? Now there is a real class act for you.
 smackemhard

Joined: 10/17/2004
Msg: 4250
view profile
History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/5/2007 5:54:24 PM
i could say the same about my captain. iggy is a example that anyone could be happy wacthing there kids want to be like. a complete class act. never i have seen a start act in a great mannor as iggy. siging pucks for kids or never having something bad to say about another player. one of the reasons why i am not only a hugh flames fan but a iggy fan also.

players with class is one of the many reasons why hockey is better then sports liek football, basketball or baseball where gusy are thugs, and make kids pay for a autograph.

go flames go
in sutter we trust
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