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 Author Thread: Hockey anyone?
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4251
long post ahead
Posted: 9/5/2007 6:42:07 PM
"players with class is one of the many reasons why hockey is better then sports liek football, basketball or baseball where gusy are thugs, and make kids pay for a autograph."

Not ALL hockey players are as classy as the likes of Iginla et al when it comes to signing autographs. I've seen NHL hockey players deliberately damage hockey cards after signing them for kids. But by and large, you are right to say hockey players are the classiest of all athletes, at least the ones in the so-called major North American sports.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4252
long post ahead
Posted: 9/6/2007 1:36:12 PM
I agree Iginla has been classy to date. But he is young too.

Emotion gets the best of us, even the pro's at times.

Just ask that dork Alfie in Ottawa
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4253
view profile
History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/6/2007 5:53:29 PM

More problems in leaf land..... Their new problem child has been suspended without pay......
re mark bell
This suspension has left me scratching my head for a couple of days now, but finally, one writer put into words pretty much exactly what I'd been thinking. This suspension should have been given out a year ago. Bell's been (apparently) sober and dry for over a year now and now they suspend him. Wierd stuff. Stajan's the union rep for the club and he doubts bell will miss any regular season action. time will tell I guess.

No gains with Bell suspension

If Mark Bell is to be believed -- and there is little reason to doubt him -- then today is Day 366 of his sobriety. For that, he should be congratulated.
For that, in a hockey world where drinking is part of the everyday culture, he should be applauded.

Instead, the National Hockey League, in agreement with the NHL Players' Association, has determined to suspend the Maple Leafs forward indefinitely -- sticking to a negotiated policy which has clearly demonstrated its flaws in this case. While "indefinitely" may turn out to be not a very long time, the notion of punishing a player long after the fact -- and after he has made huge progress -- seems to defeat the very purpose of the policy.

According to the NHL and NHLPA, Bell has been suspended for reaching Stage 2 of a confidential program intended for the well-being of all parties involved. Typically, the confidentiality of the program was laughable: How, as a player, can you trust a confidential program that doesn't remain confidential? Somebody leaked the suspension story and, in doing so, somebody breached Bell's right to confidentiality. It seems Bell hasn't let down the NHL, or the PA, as much as the opposite has taken place here.

And that's just the beginning of the hypocrisy. A question to ponder is: In whose best interest is it to suspend Bell at this time? It doesn't benefit the player. It doesn't benefit the Leafs, who were forced to pick up Bell if they wanted goalie Vesa Toskala from San Jose. It doesn't benefit the PA. And really, how does the league benefit from this?

So, what's the point?

The intention of any substance abuse or behaviour health program by the league or the Players' Association -- or your own office, for that matter -- should rely on a number of varied elements. Beginning with:

1) The individual's health and welfare;
2) The company's health, welfare and reputation;
3) The public conduct of any NHL player;
4) The outside perception of the violating player.

NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly sees nothing wrong with the Bell suspension. He views it as part of the program working. He doesn't believe the co-operative program is, in any way, flawed.

"The timing of the discipline is not particularly relevant to the disciplinary aspect of the program," Daly wrote in an e-mail. "There's a price to pay under the program for engaging in certain conduct (or in this case acknowledging to having engaged in that conduct in the past), and that is where Mark is, right now."

So let's, for a moment, consider that justice works slowly, and that can often be the case. What happens if an NHL player is charged with drunk driving, goes into the program, doesn't end up in court for two or three years, as did Rob Ramage. Let's say the alleged drunk driver completely gives up drinking in the years that follow his charge, becomes a model citizen, does community service and pleads guilty three years after the fact.

Does the NHL then suspend a sober man?
And for what reason?

In this case, that appears to be what has happened. Mark Bell, frankly, has been punished substantially for his crime. His name is basically dirt in the hockey world. His reputation, until he changes it, is somewhat shot. He is going to prison when the hockey season ends. He is going to be sued in civil court. None of this is going away. Why pile on?

That hard line may play well in Roger Goodell's new National Football League, but this isn't a league with NFL-type off-field problems. The very doctor who oversees the Players' Association's end of the substance abuse program was the same doctor who saw turned-over photographs of David Frost's work on kids and turned a blind eye when Frost was certified as an agent some time after that.

The integrity of this program is in question, from its breach of confidentiality to the suspension of an apparently sober man.
Mark Bell has enough to worry about. Suspending him now serves no purpose at all.

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Simmons/2007/09/06/4474194-sun.html
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4254
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/6/2007 6:16:44 PM
Simmons is totally off-base with this. The NHL acted swiftly, once Bell CHANGED his plea to no contest. Does Simmons believe that since Bell has cleaned up his act and is now sober (for which I, too, applaud him), that he should not be forced to pay the consequences of his criminal act?
For him to say that the NHL suspending him now serves no purpose is paramount to saying that ANY punishment her receives (ie his jail term) serves no purpose, because, after all, the guy is sober now.

Regardless of whether the actual criminal activity happend six days or six years ago, the fact is that Bell went into a court of law, pleaded no contest (guilty) to the crime and the punishment was handed out - first by the courts and shortly thereafter by the NHL.

Now, I'm not 100% certain how the wheels of justice work in San Jose, but unless law is diferent there, I'm pretty sure he would have had a preliminary hearing shortly after the crime. He COULD have pleaded guilty right then and there. But (and again this is an assumption, but call it an educated guess) I'm guessing, under the advice of a lawyer, he originally pleaded not guilty and a court date was set at that time. Then, after a year of sobriety, he cops a plea and because he hasn't had a drink in a year we're supposed to forgive him of his actions?
Tell that to the guy he hospitalized.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4255
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Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/6/2007 6:32:38 PM
ya maybe you're right jokester. It obviously goes hand in hand with his recent sentencing, but it just seems the timing is off. I think the NHL should have suspended him forthwith last year at the time of the original charges at least until he either served time, or was exonnerated.
If it meant him missing hockey all of last year due to slow wheels of justice or whatever, too bad. You're right about the drunk driving and the guy with head injuries, but to me, Bell should have been suspended immediately from play. This too would have had a bearing on how he pleaded. Had he done the right thing and pleaded no contest immediately, he could have served his sixmonths in jail, then whatever suspension the NHL and the NHLPA decided.

Now it seems the NHL is putting the cart in front of the horse, but putting it there a year after the horse has left the barn. Just seems an odd procedure.

Maybe to really send a message to the players Bell should be suspended from play until he's done his time. Leaf or no leaf. If it's as you say jokester, then the NHL should cut to the chase here with guys playing the waiting game on court hearings and pleas and stuff...especially when it comes to drinking and driving which seems to be one of the more favorite crimes hockey players commit on an annual basis.
Just an opinion.

Mind you, if he lived in Ottawa and went by the name of Wade Redden he'd have walked three times already, in spite of his nose being full of candy twice. Don't ask me for a source on that one, because you won't be getting one. I'll be like B. Bond's publisher and plead the 5th on it, but it's well known around the greater city of Ottawa.
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4256
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/6/2007 6:50:21 PM
We'll see what the NHL does to Jay Boewmeester, who just pleaded guilty to DUI in Edmonton. No victims in this case, but it's still a crime he pleaded guilty to committing. Now of the NHL chooses not to suspend Boewmeester, THEN Simmons could write a column about hypocricy.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4257
view profile
History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/6/2007 11:24:24 PM

The NHL acted swiftly, once Bell CHANGED his plea to no contest

So here's the timeline. August 15th pled no contest and Sept 4th, the NHL suspends him

We'll see what the NHL does to Jay Boewmeester, who just pleaded guilty to DUI in Edmonton

Sept 4th he pled guilty, so following the above then in about another seventeen days the NHL should be suspending this guy for his DUI. Bell's suspension has to be for the alcohol, not the hit and run.

I think again like the Vick case, these guys need to wake up and smell the coffee. A lot of these guys end up being used car salesmen, insurance salesmen and realtors when their careers are over because they sacrificed edumacation for careers.
Then they go and potentially sacrifice these careers to, in these cases, the bottle. Smart like a new suit.

These guys should be getting suspended immediately until exonnerated. Both of these guys had their incidents over a year ago. If the NHL or the NHLPA was serious about helping these guys with substance abuse problems, they would be having them put their sticks and gloves up on the shelf until these things have worked their way thru the courts. Anything less makes little sense. Why wait a year to address a drinking problem when these guys are hopping behind the wheel? Some of them more than once already.

That's why this suspension to Bell still leaves me shaking my head. It should have taken place last year for both of these guys.If you're going to suspend these guys for substance abuse, why wait a year? Just an opinion.

Florida Panthers defenceman Jay Bouwmeester pleaded guilty to drunk driving charges in an Edmonton Provincial Court on Tuesday.
He was given a one-year driving probation and a $1,000 fine.
Bouwmeester was arrested on Aug. 12, 2006 near a Whyte Avenue bar in Edmonton's nightclub area, and was charged with impaired driving and operating a motor vehicle with a blood-alcohol level of more than .08.

The 23-year-old was set to go to trial in June after entering a plea of not guilty.
However, Bouwmeester's defence lawyer and the Crown prosecutor agreed to have the trial adjourned to Sept. 4 for summary disposition - where the accused agree to plead guilty.

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=217578&hubname=nhl
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4258
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/6/2007 11:41:21 PM
I guess the NHL abides by the judicial protection of being innocent until proven guilty.
As for Bell's suspension, I got to thinking about this, and it was my understanding that it came about as per the guidelines under "phase 2 of the NHL substance abuse/recovery program" or something like that, not because of the charge itself. I may be wrong, but that's how I originally interpreted it.
 goaliebns

Joined: 1/29/2007
Msg: 4259
view profile
History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/7/2007 4:25:53 AM
You are right throwing a stick at a young girl with no equipment on to protect her is more classy than shooting a puck on the ice with players who are all equiped to protect themselves..

Gee a few weeks later Alfredson was able to not throw his stick at anyone but the fans boo him for making fun of the classless move of Sundin. Nobody boo's Sundin for almost hurting someone.. As mom used to say you could poke someone's eye out with something like that. I used to believe the media hype that poor Sundin just needs someone to pass him the puck ( because he can't go and get it himself). What were the commentators saying about Alfredson.. finally.. He was carrying the team in the playoffs ( hmm sounds like a captain to me).

The only time the leafs win in playoffs for the last 5 years is when Sundin is 'injured'

Sundin is the captain and to set an example.. throwing a stick like that c'mon you are taught from being a tyke that you drop a broken stick you don't throw it out no matter how much emotion. I like to go to Leaf games in case he does it again.. I would never have to work again if he hit me with one..

Throw it here Sundin

 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4260
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Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/7/2007 6:39:47 AM

it was my understanding that it came about as per the guidelines under "phase 2 of the NHL substance abuse/recovery program" or something like that, not because of the charge itself

Well see this is where I'm unsure as well. I presumed that once he pleaded guilty to the charge he was admittimg to having a drinking problem and then the NHLPA and the NHL instantly slapped this indefinite suspension on him. I have no idea what the purpose of this suspension is as his union rep and a number of others don't expect him to being missing any games once the season starts.

It's like the PA and the NHL said we can't suspend him for a drinking problem because he was going to plead not gulty to the charges. But now that he's changed his plea, Oh wait a sec, now he has a drinking problem under Phase 2 and needs a suspension. The whole thing looks like politcial bullsh1t.

Just an opinion.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4261
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/7/2007 7:59:13 AM
If Sundin threw a stick and it hit me, i'd ask him to autograph the stick

Then i'd buy him a beer
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4262
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/7/2007 10:18:34 AM
"It's like the PA and the NHL said we can't suspend him for a drinking problem because he was going to plead not gulty to the charges. But now that he's changed his plea, Oh wait a sec, now he has a drinking problem under Phase 2 and needs a suspension. The whole thing looks like politcial bullsh1t"

I think they're just trying to confuse everyone beyond the point of being able to formulate a valid opinion.
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4263
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/9/2007 7:49:43 PM
Great to see Canada complete the sweep.

Destroying the Russians. We are the best in the world in hockey.

Our future looks bright with so many upcoming stars....Turris, Gagner....look awesome.

Oh Canada
 prairie pundit

Joined: 6/18/2007
Msg: 4264
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/9/2007 8:36:00 PM
Yep, as a Canadian fan that was great to see. As a hockey fan that series blew. Super Series? Hardly.
 extrememale2004

Joined: 11/1/2005
Msg: 4265
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/10/2007 4:11:59 PM
The Red Wings are going to win it all.
 BlueShirtBabe

Joined: 8/18/2006
Msg: 4266
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Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/10/2007 11:28:04 PM
"The Red Wings are going to win it all."

Not sure that the old fossil Hasek can stay healthy for the 2nd year in a row... How old is he now??? 70??? LOL....... Besides, the rangers are taking the cup from the Ducks......
 campergod

Joined: 1/29/2006
Msg: 4267
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/10/2007 11:51:51 PM
lol keep dreaming with the rangers.........


money doesnt buy the cup :p
 BlueShirtBabe

Joined: 8/18/2006
Msg: 4268
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Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/11/2007 5:10:15 AM
Kinda funny you would say that about the rangers when we are in the CAP ERA.... Rangers have no more money to spend than anyone else........ The days of their $80 mil payroll are long gone.......
 Kaos86

Joined: 3/7/2007
Msg: 4269
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Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:38:18 AM
I am a Red Wing fan but I am sorry to say they no longer have what it takes to win Stanley. ...Canadian Leadership!
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4270
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/11/2007 9:38:24 AM
^^^kinda funny you say that about Hasek getting old, when wasnt it your great captin Mark Messier who led the Rangers to their last cup in his later stages of his career?
Guess the older guys are only good if their on your team

Rangers wont win the cup for two reasons.

1. they lack discipline - it is no where to be found on this team.

2. Defense is bad
 Wing Nut

Joined: 8/22/2007
Msg: 4271
long post ahead
Posted: 9/11/2007 2:25:21 PM
Iginla may be "classy" in the respect of signing autographs for kids, etc, but he's hardly someone I'd want my son to emulate on the ice. Really, the whole "sending a message" in the waning minutes of the game is getting a little old.
 BlueShirtBabe

Joined: 8/18/2006
Msg: 4272
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History
long post ahead
Posted: 9/11/2007 3:08:09 PM
^^^kinda funny you say that about Hasek getting old, when wasnt it your great captin Mark Messier who led the Rangers to their last cup in his later stages of his career?
Guess the older guys are only good if their on your team"

Wait a minute.... LOL.. Your comparing Mess to Hasek??? Isn't Hasek around 43??? Well news flash, when the rangers won the cup it was 1994...... That is 13 years ago when fossil Messier was 34........ Slight difference I would say........ PLUS Messier wasn't always whining about his groin either..... LOL

And where are the rangers lacking disipline??? They have 2 1/2 idiots on their team..... Colton Orr and Ryan Hollweg and the other half is Sean Avery.... I say half with him being he actually has some talent...... Defence??? Yup it sucks.....Even though they were the 2nd best defensive team in the east last year and Marc Staal is on his way also.....
 Pucks

Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4273
long post ahead
Posted: 9/11/2007 4:54:25 PM
^^^lacking discipline in their D is what i was referring too not idiots. Lots of blown leads.

The second best team defensively during the regular season, in the east last year got them where ? not very far in the playoffs if i recall.

BTW, both Calgary and Detroit had better goals against than the NYR last year during the regular season.
Funny you dissing that Hasek guy but he still plays well still and let in less goals than your NY team. LOL
You have to include the West coz there the teams NY would have to go thru to win the cup.

NYR defence lacks depth.
NYR defence is rather thin and they really do not have a top pairing to speak of.
If they get an injury or two, the Rangers will be screwed. An average D will go to just plain bad.

Why didnt Sather sign a quality D man? He seems to think the improvement in offensive will take care of their Defenisve thinness. Unlikely imo, as i think Defence is the biggest part to going far in the playoffs. Just ask Caryle, Burke, Proger and Neiderymeur about that.
 slysterling

Joined: 1/9/2007
Msg: 4274
view profile
History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/12/2007 8:12:15 PM
"""New Leaf suspended 15 games
New Maple Leaf Mark Bell will miss 15 games this season after being suspended by the NHL.
Mark Bell is surprised. So is his team. And the players' union is furious.

...The 15-game suspension will begin once he's cleared to return by the two doctors who run the substance abuse program jointly run by the league and NHLPA. Bell was suspended indefinitely Sept. 4 and is currently in stage two of the program..."""

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2007/09/12/4490549-cp.html

So who wants to bet that his original Phase 2 suspension will shortly be lifted before Oct.3rd, so the clock can start ticking on the 15 games. Let's see what Bettboy gives the other one, Bouwmeester.
 eykwingnut11

Joined: 9/6/2007
Msg: 4275
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History
Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/12/2007 8:31:59 PM
wow. im a wings fan and i say hasek sucks SO bad. he should either retire, or we should trade him for a bag of pucks. any goalie can post numbers like his with the defense the wings have. he let in SO many bad goals in the playoffs last year. bring jimmy howard up already!

anyways, anybody buy the hockey news or sporting news this month? im getting ready for fantasy hockey so i need to make sure ive got everything set for the draft!

i cant wait to watch my center ice!
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