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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/27/2007 4:17:34 PM |
You do that.
Lets be clear though. The wild will have a good season. Finishing second in the division and 4th in the east with more than 100 points. They are a good team.
but i will be laughing it up when they bow out early in the playoffs once again.
The playoff seasons is the REAL season.
ya they lost in the first round... to the eventual cup winners. and in the same amount of games as the sens in the finals who im pretty sure everyone considers elite. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/27/2007 4:31:24 PM | Ok lets end this elite thing once and for all......
An elite team is a team like Oilers in 80's winning multiple championships in few years, or like Red wings winning 3 championships in 6 years and they always seem to be challenging for that top spot! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/27/2007 5:06:22 PM |
well in the last 10 years the flames knocked out a red wings team with double the salary of them in 2004. shutting down the top offence club that season in games 5 and 6.
went from bottom feeder, with bad coaching to a team with a great coach and great gm.
you can worry about the last 10 years all you want though. i care about now. and 5 years from now. live in the past all you want. what does the last 10 years have to do with now?
Well I think the Wings future is pretty secure.
Living on past glory...Give your head a shake what year was it that they knocked the Wings out...was it last year...I don't think so!
I will take Ken Holland over Sutter any day. One is proven one is dreaming.
Flames suck!
Let's face it they were better in Atlanta. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/27/2007 6:56:27 PM | Whoa baby. better break up the leafs. A two goal lead going into teh third. 2 in a row on the road without mccabe and the forwards actually came back down low to protect Toskala both nites. They looked good. 7 points out of 10 every 5 games will get you in the playoffs. Let's hope they keep playing this way for awhile. Washington's next on the hit list.
i'm not sure when the last time i saw this was, but we had Sundin manning the front of the net while the D men pursued into the corner in the 3rd period. Interesting switchoff, but we got away with it because of Sundins strength. They tried it later too with some other forwards, but it was only Toskala doing his horatio at the bridge routine that prevented a couple of goals.
Rangers D looked real soft on the Antropov goal. Maybe this tells us we should either play all our games on the road, or we should trade McCabe and see what we can get for him. Either way, maybe this club has turned a corner here.
Meanwhile, i found this little analysis of our GM fergy Jr:
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Time to pull plug on JFJ
Keeping Leafs GM worsens team
...This is not a 10-game overreaction to a team off to a troubling start. This is a 174-game analysis -- three seasons of post-lockout Ferguson Leafs teams.
When he arrived here from St. Louis, Ferguson talked about going back to basics, rebuilding the farm system, working the draft. As clumsily as he may have conveyed the message, there was some merit to his apparent plan.
At least, momentarily there was. But then he traded away two first-round picks -- a third if you count the 2005 choice, Tuukka Rask -- three second-round picks and three fourth-round picks, for what amounts to Vesa Toskala, Andrew Raycroft and the suspended Mark Bell.
Those deals meant Ferguson no longer was playing for the future. Those deals meant he was more interested in his own survival than the team's. And if he is playing for now instead of the future, how is that working out? Truly, it's difficult to find an area in which Ferguson has succeeded.
Since the lockout, when he had a year to plan the Leafs' future, he has signed Jason Allison, Alex Khavanov, Eric Lindros, Mike Hoffman, J-S Aubin, Mariusz Czerkawski, Brad Brown, Hal Gill, Pavel Kubina, Mike Peca, Boyd Devereaux, Simon Gamache and Jason Blake as free agents. Some list.
The one move that wasn't questioned, the hiring of coach Paul Maurice, is now under question. With apparently better players, the Leafs are playing worse. And if you think their team defence is bad now, wait a year: All of the main culprits are signed long-term.
Anaheim Ducks general manager Brian Burke inherited a team similar to the Leafs in the summer of 2005. Within two seasons, he changed all six defencemen, changed coaches, traded away most of his high-priced help and won the Stanley Cup.
Sound management can do that.
A year ago, the Leafs were chuckling about the state of the Philadelphia Flyers. In less than a season on the job, Holmgren signed or traded for Daniel Briere, Kimmo Timonen, Martin Biron, Joffrey Lupul, Jason Smith, Scott Hartnell and Braydon Coburn and picked second in the NHL draft last June. They are on their way back to contention.
Sound management can do that.
So, where do the MLSEL people look now? They failed in an attempt to bring Scotty Bowman in to run the Leafs in the summer and continually talk about a Bryan Colangelo-type to run the club.
The best choice may be Ken Holland, the Detroit GM, who works in the deepest front office in hockey. Holland is under contract, but then so was Colangelo before leaving for the Raptors. Holland is in a bit of a strange position in Detroit -- with Steve Yzerman waiting in the Wings -- so to speak. Holland is definitely worth pursuing.
In all, 14 teams have changed general managers since the Leafs hired Ferguson. A high percentage of those have made their teams better in a shorter period of time. It's time for MLSEL to admit that this hiring was a mistake. The culture of this hockey team desperately needs to change, starting with the general manager."""
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2007/10/25/4604362-sun.html
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ps. Flames never won a Cup when they were in Atlanta, but it was the Fletcher braintrust that built that Cup winner. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/27/2007 7:40:21 PM | yeah sutter is not proven as a gm
completly re built the farm
drafted phaneuf
kippursof for a 2nd round pick
resigned iggy
resigned reggie
is the one major factor that turned the flames from a bottom 6 team playoff team.
its tottaly differnt where the flames and wings are. i never siad the wings suck, i think they are the model for sucess in the nhl. you just cant seem to read or something. everytime i make a good point about the wings you make a bad point for a wings fan.
you asked what the flames did in the last 10 years i answered. then your trying to say i am living in the past. give your head a shake and well your at it go back to school take english 14 and get your reading comprehension checked. as it stands you dont seem to be able to read and understand whats going on very well at all.
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/28/2007 11:44:22 AM |
ya they lost in the first round... to the eventual cup winners. and in the same amount of games as the sens in the finals who im pretty sure everyone considers elite.
wingnut, that logic makes for a very weak arguement. Based on that premise then you're saying the Canucks are an elite team equal to the "theoretically" elite Sens and Wild clubs...and then to push it out a little further, what you're actually saying is that all three clubs, the Sens, Canucks and Wild are less elite than the Wings who took the Ducks to 6 games.
They were a very competitive team. that I'll give you, but elite no way. If they're an elite hockey club then the word elite really means nothing anymore. In the NFL right now you have an elite football club halfway thru the season in the Patriots. They seem to be steamrolling everyone. If they finish this season the way they've played thru almost half the season, then they will definitely go down as an elite squad.
The Oilers of the 80's and the Wings of the 90's are not to be confused with the word dynasty. The 97/98 Wings club that actually literally played keep-away with the Capitols in the Stanley Cup winning game were an elite hockey club. I'll bet the Capitols might have actually touched the puck about ten times in the final 20 minutes. I'd never seen anything like it in all my time watching hockey. I felt sorry for Ronny Wilson that night. it was quite a display of hockey supremacy.
the 91 Penguins were an elite hockey club. They seemed to operate at a level no other squad could match. Their offense was hi level and the rest of the squad made for a very dominant hockey club. A club that loses 8 or 10 or 12 games in a year is to me an elite hockey club. In I think 76 it was the Habs lost like 8 games all year. Now that was an elite hockey club. And i believe if memory serves me correct, the 87/88 oilers was one of the best hockey clubs I've ever seen, and deserve elite status.
The 04/05 London Knights of the OHL are indicative of what i consider an 'elite' hockey club to be:
In the 2004-05 season, the Knights broke a CHL record, going 31 games in a row without a loss (29-0-2). The previous record of 29 games, held by the 1978-79 Brandon Wheat Kings (who went 25-0-4 during their streak), was broken with a 0-0 tie against the Guelph Storm on December 10, 2004. The streak ended at 31 games after a 5-2 loss to the Sudbury Wolves on December 17. The Knights finished the season with 120 points (59 wins, 7 losses, 2 ties), breaking their own OHL record set the previous season.
In the playoffs, the Knights started by sweeping two best-of-seven series against the Guelph Storm and Windsor Spitfires. In the Western Conference final, the Knights defeated the Kitchener Rangers 4-1 to win the Wayne Gretzky Trophy. In the OHL finals against the Ottawa 67's, the Knights won the series 4-1 to win their first J. Ross Robertson Cup, and in so doing, ended the longest championship drought in the CHL.
That same year, the London Knights and the John Labatt Centre were awarded the right to host 2005 Memorial Cup Tournament, which was played from May 21 to May 29. In the tournament, they defeated the Rimouski Océanic 4-3 on May 21, the Kelowna Rockets 4-2 on May 23, and the Ottawa 67's 5-2 on May 26. This earned the Knights a bye into the championship game. On May 29, the Knights defeated Rimouski 4-0 to win their first Memorial Cup
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Knights
If your Wild play all 80 games with only one regular loss every ten games then they will definitely wind up as an elite class 'regular season' hockey club. Maybe even close to the best regular season team of all time.Time will tell, but a 48 and 26 record is a good record from last year (excluding ties) but hardly anywhere near elite status. And any team that can't make it to a final, let alone win one, let alone even get out of the first round is just not an elite hockey club.
Just my two cents | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/28/2007 12:27:47 PM | Hockey anyone?
Posted: 9/26/2007 1:07:48 PM
wings payroll the last 10 years vs the flames payroll the last 10. yeah was nice to spend all that cash wasnt it. even though your 03/04 squad got smoked but a team with under half the salary of the wings.
look at the wings divison, if the flames played in it playoffs ever year for sure. any team from the northwest would compete on almost any year for divison lead.
cup in new cba is zero each. seems to me the flames were the last team to make the finals of the 2. hey the wings have more cups so what? i live in the present, i dont have to ride on what my team has done in the past (oilers, habs, leafs fans)
i say something good about the wings and look. age of hasek and celios combined almost 90. no other team in the nhl has had an older combo of 2 players that i can think of in recent years.
wings suck
go flames go
in sutter we trust
What was that about reading comprehension?
Someone needs to take off the hockey shirt and go out on a Saturday night rather than sit in front of the TV watching HNIC and hoping for Sutter to strap on the blades again. Better yet, try actually putting on the blades yourself then you might get a better understanding of the game.
Sutter sucks!
Holland Wins! | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4583 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/28/2007 4:03:14 PM | Sly, is that you...you must be sick,,,,your saying some positive about the leafs.
Leafs have allowed 3 goals there past two games. Toskola looks great and the d looks much more organized and confident. Nice to see them hold leads against good teams in Pittsburg and NY and not blow it.
As for the Wild, they lost today, making it 3 straight. Backstrom was out with injury, as was Demitra and Gaborik (groin)...what a shocker. Can you say depth factor coming in to play.  | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/28/2007 5:04:05 PM | Hopefully it's nothing serious for backstrom....groins can be a bugger for a goaler. If it nags on him it will definitely affect performance...all three of those guys have groin injuries so you have to kind of wonder what them fellas get up to when they're out on the road together  ...hehehe so long as they don't pick up Daigle I'm sure they're on the up and up 
I think the Avs are going to run away and hide in that division. By january they should have it all but locked up. Sakic and Smitty make a good combo, and rumour has it the Avs are on Forsbergs shortlist with the Sens, Flyers and Detroit. Avs have lots of cap room, and I'd bet he'll be suiting up there by Christmas.
As for the leafs, i always cheer for them Pucks, but if they're playing under 500 hockey they are definitely always going to be critiqued. Just so you don't think I'm taking my foot off fergy's neck just yet, here's anudder column on him; (just a short one this time) Caps are next on the hit list. I think they're going to start playing better now they've got a couple of road wins under their belt, plus 3 more games before we get big bad Bell in the lineup. he'll add some muscle and i expect him to have a decent season as he's a good old Ontario boy.
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JFJ having a tough time
John Ferguson Jr. has always preached patience, but he appears to be losing his.
The general manager hasn't been pleased with the club's start (Toronto was 4-4-3 before last night's tilt with the New York Rangers) and sources say he's desperately trying to make a deal to ensure the Leafs stay in the thick of the Eastern Conference playoff race.
While reports say teams have shown an interest in young centres Alex Steen and Matt Stajan, it's defencemen Pavel Kubina, Bryan McCabe and Hal Gill whom sources say Ferguson Jr. is actively trying to trade.
But with McCabe making $7.15 million (all terms US) to go along with a no-movement clause, Kubina pulling down $4.25 million and Gill at a lofty $2.075 million, these guys might just be the safest bets to stay in Hogtown.
The Leafs have also investigated the possibility of bringing in unrestricted free-agent defenceman Danny Markov, who signed with Moscow Dynamo but has an out clause. His $3.5-million asking price, however, is a little rich for the club.
http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Columnists/Garrioch/2007/10/28/4612270-sun.html
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i always liked Markov. the guy was tuff as nails and bled leaf blue. i couldn't believe it when they traded him to Phoenix for Travis Green. i liked greeny mind you, but Markov was a young warrior back then apprenticing under Yushkevic, another warrior on the blueline. I hope they get him back and ship Mccabe out for a couple of utility players. Just free up all that salary. Crazy crazy contract for him
ps...here's a couple of seasons of those Habs back when i was a teenager still thinking I'd make it to the bigs:
77/78
Montreal Canadiens 59 10 11 129
76/77
Montreal Canadiens 60 8 12 132
75/76
Montreal Canadiens 58 11 11 127
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4585 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/28/2007 6:11:04 PM | Well i think McCabe should be traded and i agree Markov would a good move. One other D man with McCabe would be good to get rid off.
Kubina or Gill could stay as the leafs need some veteran experience on D as White, Colaicovo, Wozinski sp?, are all young and inexperienced.
I hope the rumours about Fergie possibly trading McCabe are true. That would be a move in the right direction.
Bell will defintely help up front with his grit. Tucker cannot do it all by himself and he was apparently playing hurt, which is no wonder he was off too such a poor start. (torn ACL). It was unlike him to not hit and coz shit against opponents.
Get better soon Tuck.
 Go leafs Go | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/28/2007 9:50:28 PM | Well forget Markov returning to the leafs or the NHL for that matter.... he signed Friday in Russia for 2 years..... But can break the contract after this season.....
Nice win Saturday night you leaf fans......LOL | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/30/2007 7:25:55 PM | yeah sutter is so bad, he just singed kipper to a 6 year deal. i wish he could learn and sign a 42year old with history of injury.
go flames go
in sutter we trust
make that 4L's in a row for the wild now | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/30/2007 8:42:56 PM | Favourite headline from today's press:
"Kiprus-off the market" | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4589 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/30/2007 8:58:10 PM | "make that 4 L's in a row for the wild now"
uh huh.....and Gaborik and Demtira both missed today's again again.
Oh the groin probs in Minnie must be driving their fans and management bonkers. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 3:20:18 AM | "uh huh.....and Gaborik and Demtira both missed today's again again."
...as well as their number-one goalie | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 3:44:23 AM | yeah you have to wounder if its a wild training staff problem with as many players with bad groins they have.
flames beat down preds 5-1
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 9:35:51 AM |
yeah sutter is so bad, he just singed kipper to a 6 year deal. i wish he could learn and sign a 42year old with history of injury.
I guess you mean First Round Exit Sutter and First Round Exit Kipper.
6 mil a yr for a guy who has never won his last game, sounds like Sutter should change his name to Ferguson Jr.
Show time Thursday night. How about a friendly agreement?
How about the loser stays off this forum for a week?
Sutter Sucks
Ken Holland is a god! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 11:26:58 AM | emm its under 6. so cheaper then lungo who has never seen past the 2nd round.
and kippursof has won the last games many times. in jr's and in other seasons. just no cup yet but he has only been a starter in the nhl for what 2.5 seasons? any goalie that can play 70+ games at under 6mill is a steal of a deal. in the open market he would have been looking at at least 7.
sure sounds like a fair bet, only make it 2 weeks.
only 3 more players to lock up and sutter will have the core done. juice, lanks and dion
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 3:17:44 PM | ^^^^
Damn! Now I don't know which team to cheer for
I know one thing....I can almost guarantee that we will see a "new poster" in this forum by Friday
Kipper should really fire his agent over this deal. It would be worth more if it were in CANADIAN FUNDS !!!! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 3:37:04 PM | im thinking we should make it really interesting and say for every goal whos ever team losses by they dont come back for 1 week.
hows that sound for you.
im also going to put my streak on the line and make this one of my guaranteed win nights. which i usually reserve for a oliers game but what the hell. do it boys. send them wings to a long plane flight, and close out this home stand like you can.
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 10/31/2007 4:56:37 PM |
Damn! Now I don't know which team to cheer for
classic | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 8:59:51 AM |
im thinking we should make it really interesting and say for every goal whos ever team losses by they dont come back for 1 week.
You're on and I won't even handicap it for the Wings at the end of a road trip.
As for Sutter getting credit for drafting Phaneuf. Lets see Canadian stud defensman available...Hell only Fergie JR. would have screwed that one up.
Check out this draft record...
7th round 210th overall Henrik Zetterberg
6th round 171st overall Pavel Datsyuk
Sutter sucks
Holland is a god! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 10:06:45 AM | "As for Sutter getting credit for drafting Phaneuf. Lets see Canadian stud defensman available...Hell only Fergie JR. would have screwed that one up."
Not quite. Don Waddell blew it that year. He drafted Coburn ahead of Phaneuf.
As for Zetterberg and Datsyuk, yep, nice picks. You can do that with pretty much any team. You can also do this: Ryan Barnes and Kent McDonnell. Who? Exactly. Those are the players the Red Wings selected BEFORE Zetterberg and Datsyuk in their respective draft years. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 2:07:02 PM | Ok now you're ticking me off.
1989
Nick Lidstrom 53rd overall. Arguably the 2nd best defensman in history.
Sergei Fedorov (No. 74, Detroit)
Vladimir Konstantinov (No. 221, Detroit).
1991
76th overall Mike Knuble
1994
257th overall Tomas Holmstrom
Not many teams(if any) have drafted better than the Wings the last 20 years.
Only one problem and its why I don't have faith that they will win another Cup soon....No Canadians! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 2:38:55 PM | "Not many teams(if any) have drafted better than the Wings the last 20 years.
Only one problem and its why I don't have faith that they will win another Cup soon....No Canadians!"
I will agree that the Wing have arguably been the best EUROPEAN drafters in the past 20 years, but to say they have drafted better than anyone else and then turn around and say they won't win a Cup because they have no Canadians is a contradiction.
Some Europeans the missed out on, however:
1989 - Pavel Bure, sixth round. 113th overall Vancouver Canucks
1991 - Alexi Zhitnik, 81st overall LA
1994 - Kim Johnnson, 286th overall, Rangers.
I'm guessing that the reason why the Red Wings have such success drafting Europeans is that they draft more Europeans than anyone else. But interesting you'd bring up 1994 in particular. Yes, Holmstrom was a good pick....far better than Yan Golubovsky. Who? Yeah...the Detroit Red Wings' 1st rounder that year. How about Sean Gillam (3rd) Frederic Deschenes (4th) Doug Battaglia (5th) Pavel Agarkov (6th) Jason Elliott (8th) or Jeff Mikesch (9th)...all picked ahead of Holmstrom by the Detroit Red Wings in 1994. You know what they say....throw enough S##T against the wall, some of it will stick. Holmstrom was simply the sticky S##T for that year. 1994 was one of the Red Wings' worst draft years EVER...but thanks for bringing it up. That was fun.
I'd do the other years you mentioned as well, but I'm laughing too hard. | |
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