Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4601 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 3:36:54 PM | ^^^Jokester, i see your being a shit disturber again eh. lol at least you have stoped your aruguing about the Wild being an elite team. haha
Detroit has defintely got a good GM.
Holland has a home here in Vernon, BC where he resides in the summer.
He is a smart guy and i have seen him speak a couple times at functions in our area. Holland is the brains behind the wings success and i wish the Leafs and some other Canadian teams had a GM with his credentials and wits. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 3:49:31 PM | | a little over an hour until the much anticipated flames -vs- wings matchup! | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 4:40:52 PM | Not being a shit disturber, just exposing holes in a theory. That's what forums are for - banter back and forth.
As for the whole elite discussion, according to all the arguments on here, there hasn't been an elite team in the NHL since the Oilers of the 80s, maybe not since the Habs teams of the mid 70s, so there's no sense in carrying that on. There are no elite teams in the NHL anymore. I've accepted that, based on all the criteria presented. | |
|
Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4604 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 4:51:32 PM | ""there are no elite teams in the nhl anymore"
agreed.....currently that is.
keep in mind a few years back during the old NHL CBA, Colorado, Detroit and New Jersey imo were elite teams almost every season. They each won multiple Cups.
"there hasn't been an elite team in the NHL since the Oilers of the 80's, maybe not since the Habs teams of the mid 70's".
well there is more to it than that imo. The 80's NY Islanders were a dominant elite team as were the Habs in the 50's. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 5:04:05 PM |
Colorado, Detroit and New Jersey imo were elite teams almost every season. They each won multiple Cups.
I'd agree that these were elite franchises. You knew you'd have to cross these bridges to get to the Holy Grail. I wouldn't say there aren't any elite clubs anymore. The Sens winning 9 of 10 and seeming very focussed on the ultimate goal this year may well deserve elite status, and presently they could be hailed as an elite team presently in the NHL (Although you won't hear me say it since it's the Sens).
The word elite is overused by these sports color guys in the media. Right now the Patriots and Colts are elite squads..their records speak for themselves in the NFL.
In the NHL last year, I picked the Ducks way back in September when they landed Pronger. I thought based on the previous years playoff run alone, with the sole addition of Pronger, all other things being equal, they should make it to the Cup. And they showed flashes of 'eltism' in the way they manhandled the Sens. But to me frankly, the west is the elite division compared to the east in spite of Tampa and Carolina's recent Cup victories. I think it's just a better brand of hockey in the West.
This year i don't see an elite squad with perhaps the possible exception of the Sens. But it's early and I still don't have a lot of fear of the Sens club because the leafs were just unlucky not to hand them two L's to start the season.
We'll see how it shakes out. It's like the goalie thread. There's probably no 'right' or wrong answer. It's semantics. Elite versus very competitive versus dynasty etc etc etc. But a one year shot to 104 points in this age of overinflated point totals shouldn't put a club in elite status.
Just an opinion. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 5:41:07 PM | "This year i don't see an elite squad with perhaps the possible exception of the Sens."
OK see now this is where I have a problem. In one sentence, you're saying teams WERE elite because they won numerous stanley cups, then you say Ottawa is an elite club. Why? Because they won nine of their first 10 ames? Where is the cut-off? Minn went what...8 straight? apparently the cut-off is nine.
When I said "elite" and Minnesota in the same breath, I was speaking relative to the other teams in the league right now, as in "the league's elite"....kind of like what you are doing with the Ottawa Senators.
Would I compare the Wild with the best ever? Hardly! But they have a system, like it or not, that works in the NHL these days, or at least it does in the regular season. And, come to think of it, that was all I was saying to begin with - that the Wild are a very good (if not elite) regular season team. I said they would win the Northwest division. Does that make them elite? Well, it would make them the best team in their divisiion and one of the top 6 teams in the league. So, as far as I'm concerned, any team that wins a division is considered elite for that season. It's all semantics. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 5:48:29 PM | ok ok when i said winning nine of ten, i meant setting that type of pace for an entire season...just like i said if the wild kept playing the way they were playing (i think they were 7 and 1 at that point when i made that statement) they would then very well be an elite hockey club. Winning 8 or 9 out of every ten games is definitely elite calibre hockey...for a sustained period over the course of a regular season.
Then even if , say, the Wild played at that level and still got swept in the first round, I would concede they were an elite regular season hockey club.. there's no cutoff here implied. it was a pace setting thing for an entire season.
i was just checking some of our predictions back in september where one guy was trying to tell us not to worry about the nashville preds. Another guy was ridiculed for picking the Bluejackets, the Hawks, the Kings and the Blues as the most improved clubs in the west. Mind you, only month one of 6 months is done, but if I were a nashville fan, I'd be worried.
EDIT:Leaf note: Leafs' Bell ready to resume career ~ Bell will make his Maple Leafs debut on Tuesday in Ottawa.
http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/news_story/?ID=221908&hubname=nhl | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 6:14:49 PM |
i was just checking some of our predictions back in september where one guy was trying to tell us not to worry about the nashville preds.
that was MEEEEE!! :)
to be fair though. i didnt know sullivan was out till god knows when (i drafted him in fantasy hockey, shoulda done more research) and their top d-man weber was injured in game #1... if sullivan comes back, and weber stays healthy, i think they can turn this around.
the wings are still an elite team. they just make teams look silly night in and night out, usually outshooting them by at least a 2 to 1 margin. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 6:36:52 PM |
I will agree that the Wing have arguably been the best EUROPEAN drafters in the past 20 years, but to say they have drafted better than anyone else and then turn around and say they won't win a Cup because they have no Canadians is a contradiction.
Remmember the team they drafted in that 20 years won 3 cups.
Its very simple so let me spell it out for you. Because of the Wings great success they have picked at the bottom of the barrel for the last 10 yrs. The draft is a crap shoot at best except for the first 5 or 6 picks. The developemet of 18 year olds is hard to predict. The Wings have found more gems than any one in the later rounds. Thats when the scouts earn there pay. The Wings have managed this because when Mike Ilitch bought the team he bought into the theory that you build from the ground floor up.he same philosophy that has his Tiger on top also). The Red Wings were leaders scouting Europe and behind the Iron Curtain in the 80s. As long as they had Yzerman and Shanahan the Europeans were great compliments but now hey don't.
Great drafting of talent but know Canadian leadership = no cups.
Only one team in the history of the NHL has won the Cup with out a Canadian as it's heart and soul guy.
Do you know which team that was? | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 6:37:08 PM | I will agree that the Wing have arguably been the best EUROPEAN drafters in the past 20 years, but to say they have drafted better than anyone else and then turn around and say they won't win a Cup because they have no Canadians is a contradiction.
Remember the team they drafted in that 20 years won 3 cups.
Its very simple so let me spell it out for you. Because of the Wings great success they have picked at the bottom of the barrel for the last 10 yrs. The draft is a crap shoot at best except for the first 5 or 6 picks. The developemet of 18 year olds is hard to predict. The Wings have found more gems than any one in the later rounds. Thats when the scouts earn there pay. The Wings have managed this because when Mike Ilitch bought the team he bought into the theory that you build from the ground floor up (the same philosophy that has his Tigers on top also). The Red Wings were leaders scouting Europe and behind the Iron Curtain in the 80s. As long as they had Yzerman and Shanahan the Europeans were great compliments but now they don't.
Great drafting of talent but know Canadian leadership = no cups.
Only one team in the history of the NHL has won the Cup with out a Canadian as it's heart and soul guy.
Do you know which team that was? | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 6:43:30 PM | Only one team in the history of the NHL has won the Cup with out a Canadian as it's heart and soul guy.
Do you know which team that was?
No brainer. Dallas. Modano. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:14:55 PM | ^^^Nieuwendyk was the Conn Smyth guy, but to me it should have been split with Eddie the Eagle that year
EDIT 4-1 Wings 4 minutes left | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:16:19 PM | | kaos, u gotta be lovin' this game, i know i am. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:27:03 PM | | Couple of more goals and we won't hear from smackem again until the new year | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:29:16 PM | ^^^Nieuwendyk was the Conn Smyth guy, but to me it should have been split with Eddie the Eagle that year
Question wasnt about who won the conn smythe - it was who was the heart and soul. Not always the same thing. Just ask Messier. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:33:37 PM | didn't messier win the conn?
and in no way was modano the heart and soul of that team | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:33:53 PM | didn't messier win the conn?
and in no way was modano the heart and soul of that team | |
|
Pucks
|
Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4618 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 7:55:35 PM | Poor Smack. Think you'll need a few more beers after that game.
And the Wild loss their 5th straight.....elite my ass.
Even Gaborik and Demitra were back in the lineup. | |
|
| |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/1/2007 10:48:01 PM | I only remember 1997 - Todd Marchant making Hatcher look like a pylon in ot in Game 7. I don't think the Oilers ever played the Stars before or after
As for Mess, he won a conn smythe in 84 - Oilers first Stanley Cup. But he DID NOT win in 1990 or 94, when he was indeed the "heart and soul" of both teams (Oilers in 90, Rangers in 94)
And Mike Modano is as much the heart and soul of the Dallas Stars as Ryan Smyth was of the Oilers or Stevy Y was of the Wings. | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/2/2007 4:44:27 AM | re: madano
i respectfully but totally disagree
that team was loaded with role players who had more heart and guys who scored who also did
and the conn is not an indication of heart-it is usually an indication of a guy getting hot-often a goalie
playoff mvp's in any sport rarely are
and for the record-messier was dirty-he was brilliant-but he also may have been the kingpin of the oiler's drug use in the eighties-they-TO A MAN-credit gretzky with teaching them how to win
the first thing messier and lowe etc said after they beat boston for the oilers last cup was to thank wayne gretzky
i remember thinking at the time-man! thats weird because the year before gretzky beat them in the playoffs so there were chances of wounds being developed
i am not saying messier wasn't a leader-that would be silly-but i am saying it is my opinion he developed into one from his earlier partying days-and it was wayne gretzky who taught him-and i also remember that when messier won the first conn-there were folks muttering that it was because he had an amazing playoff run-not that he was the leader...which was clearly wayne | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:11:08 AM | The answer was of course--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Mike Madono.
When I said the heart and soul guy I am talking about the one guy you identify that franchise/team with ie. Yzerman, Niedermeyer, Stevens, Gretzky, Lemieux. They don't always win the Conn Smythe.
Here's another one.....What was the last team to return to the Stanley Cup Final after losing in the final the year before? | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:28:18 AM | good question, but this one's easy. the first Oilers championship...pretty sure on that one.
Ok what team having won the Stanley Cup the year prior, relinquished it the following year in the Final?
And it happened two years in a row. That's it for me on the trivia, unless someone can tell me who wore number two for the Leafs after Ian Turnbull | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/2/2007 9:47:33 AM | Yes the Oilers....So so it doesn't look good for the Ottawa Senators. Thats 2 strikes against them, Alfredson is their heart and soul guy and they lost last year in the final. History is not on their side.
I will let someone else get in on your first question but as for the Leafs and who wore #2 after Turnbull the answer could only be.... "Who the "F" Cares"! | |
|
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 11/2/2007 5:45:16 PM | Dallas won in 1999, beating buffalo on Brett Hull's controversial goal and then lost to the Devils in 2000. The Devils lost to the Avs in the finals the following year.
OK here's one for you - who is the only NHL player to have won a Stanley Cup AND a Little League World Series title? | |
|
Home
login 
Man you guys couldn't buy a series win off those guys for years.