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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4851 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/2/2007 7:28:15 PM | ^^^^Lowe was desperate to land someone.....
Vanek, Nylander deals did not work and they lost big names in Ryan Smyth and captain Jason Smith.
Kevin felt pressured to doooo something. So he lured Penner in with big bucks. Penner made $450,000 with Anaheim during their cup win year. Then signs for 4 Million with the Oilers. Burke would not match a contract offer, which made sense. Stupid move by Lowe. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/2/2007 10:29:36 PM | Don't look now, but my rangers are getting real close to the top of the eastern conference....... 
Beating the Sens Saturday...... Nice........
Step aside Sens, the Rangers want your spot..... | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/2/2007 10:37:38 PM | ^^^Yep. Your blueshirts had them starting to empty the building with 8 minutes to go in the game. Place was nearly empty when the game ended. 51 goals against thru 26 games looks like less than 2 goals a game to me. Excellent!
Devils are right behind you though. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 3:23:55 AM | "^^^^Lowe was desperate to land someone.....
Vanek, Nylander deals did not work and they lost big names in Ryan Smyth and captain Jason Smith.
Kevin felt pressured to doooo something. So he lured Penner in with big bucks. Penner made $450,000 with Anaheim during their cup win year. Then signs for 4 Million with the Oilers. Burke would not match a contract offer, which made sense. Stupid move by Lowe. "
Pucks, do you honestly believe that's all there is to it? You've pretty much quoted Brian Burke word for word there, and I'm not saying you're wroung, but there's two things I see wrong with this therory.
1) Why 5 years? Why not offer him 2 years @ 4M? Burke still does not match and you are not committed past 08/09.
2) If Kevin Lowe can be so easily lured into making such a foolish signing, then how did he ever get the job in the first place? What's he doing? Rehearsing for a front-office job with the Maple Leafs?
I gotta believe that the Oiler scouts can see stuff in Penner that is lost to the less educated eye. Something more than being able to have 26 pucks bounce off his ass on a line with Perry and Getzlaf. I thought they would try to turn him into a power forward, but they have to get a mean streak in him for that and I just don't know if that's possivble with Penner. He's never played that style. He has all the size and strength, just not the instinct. Is that something you can teach?
Not sure. But I'll tell you one thing. Brian Burke has been very upset about this signing for a long time now...he just won't let it die. I can ASSURE you that Burke would not be upset in the least if what we're seeing so far in Dustin Penner is all he has. Even on principle...Burke would have just laughed and said..."whatever".
I said from the start, I believe Penner was a main reason Burke signed Bertuzzi for 4M a year...that Burke believed under Bertuzzi's tutelage, Penner would turn into the prototypical power forward. That's one of the reasons Burke was and remains so fumed about the deal.
As for the Oilers, they don't have anyone who can teach hm how to play like that. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4855 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 7:51:49 AM | ^^^^^I believe that their is always more to any issue.
Who knows what Lowe was thinking offering him 5 years at that rate.
Of course Penner has potential. But such a huge jump in pay raise after a rookie season is just silly. Crosby makes less than Penner lol.
"i believe Penner was a main reason Burke signed Bertuzzi for 4 Million a year"
sure that was part of it but not all of it.
Bert has been in the NHL since 96 if i recall. It was not just to replace Penner up front. But more to add a proven power forward, who has a decade of experience under his belt. While he has tailed of the past couple seasons with his legal troubles, Bert played his best under Burke during their tenure together in Vancouver. Bert was selected to the 2006 Team Canada Olympic team. It was then that Moore filed his gigantic lawsuit and he has played less and less dealing with injuries etc since. In 2003 and 2004 he made the All Star Teams. Bert had 85pts in 2002, 97 points in 2003 and 71 points in 2006....Comapring Penner and Bertuzzi's 4 million dollar contracts just not make sense to me. Both so far are not doing well statistically this year; Bert has only appeared in 13 games due to injury with 6 points, while Penner has played in all 26 Oil games with 12 points to date. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:12:36 AM | Monday NHL / Toronto update.
Well this little Toronto upswing is a good thing, it means Fergie jr. will be around a little longer to continue the comedy routine otherwise know as the Leafs.
NHL Offense Leaders
1. Detroit......................3.27
2. Carolina....................3.18
3. Ottawa......................3.16
4. Buffalo......................3.12
5. Tampa......................3.12
6. Philly........................3.08
7. Toronto....................3.oo
Leafs move up 1 spot. Atta Boys!
In Fergie jr. we Laugh! | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4857 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 8:37:30 AM | ^^^offense is the least of their worries. It is inconsistent defensive play that is the concern. With their two straight 4-2 wins against Atlanta and the Pens, hopefully the leafs are catching on that they need to be strong in their own end to win on a consistent basis.
i dont think Fergie is going anywhere this year...Like i said his contract option was renewed for this year. If the Leafs do not make the playoffs this year it has got to be a sure firing or no contract extension in the spring.
Some players may be under performing, but do you really think the Leaf lineup has huge holes? if so where? (dont just state the obvious defense issues, we know that. On paper, the likes of Kubina, Gil, Kaberle etc are good no?) | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:51:07 AM |
Some players may be under performing, but do you really think the Leaf lineup has huge holes? if so where? (dont just state the obvious defense issues, we know that. On paper, the likes of Kubina, Gil, Kaberle etc are good no?)
Pucks, I thought you were making progress a couple of days ago. What does on paper mean? Their contract? No their contracts are as ugly as their defensive play. How many times have these clowns missed the playoffs the last 5 yrears?
There holes are so huge you could fly Red Bird One clean through them.
I would dump the entire team with the exception of...Wellwood, Blake, Bell, Antropov and of course Wrongway Foyt. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4859 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 9:58:52 AM | "what does on paper mean? Their contract?"
NOooooo....i mean their stats and years experience etc. Kubina i believe has a cup ring with Tampa in the past (not certain), is know as above average dmen. Gil is reputable with experience, Kaberle too, who plays on their national team in the competitive world tournaments...(olympics etc).
As for their rookies, White is young and a good puck mover...just too small i think...Dont know alot about their younger dmen, liked Wozenski, but i think Colvaicco will be good if he can stay injury free.
I have said their contracts are ridiculous....especially the locked in ones and the no trade clauses - this is not what i meant by stating on paper.
"there holes are so huge, you could fly a Red Bird One clean through them"
why though, you still have not addressed the question. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 10:51:19 AM |
why though, you still have not addressed the question.
When was the last time they made the playoffs? Thats the answer to the question. None of their d-men are shut down players which makes those with offense weaker.
They have two mediocre(at best) goalies. They have no leadership, there offense is sinking fast. What do they have that other teams would want?
Sundin would be a good addition to a team which has a great Canadian leader. Tucker the dumbest player in the NHL, might be interesting to a team also with good leadership. The guy can play but he needs to be controlled.
Its time to clean house. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4861 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 11:40:56 AM | ^^^ ya they missed the playoffs in 06 and 07. Quinn last year was the only year they did not make the playoffs. It was back in 98 when they last missed it.
"none of their d-men are shut down players"
agreed,, for the most part.
"they have two mediocre (at best) goalies"
Raycroft, i'll agree with but...I'd say Toskola is solid and above mediocore status as you claim.
"they have no leadership"
Untrue...Sundin is a good captain. He may not be Canadian but he is a good leader. What they need is an above average Canadian to step up beside Mats. Wont be Blake, he's American, Antropov, is Russian...they dont have any real Canadian leaders.
"its time to clean house"
and how do you propose that be done, with so many in locked up contracts, no trade clauses etc.? trade maybe perhaps. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 11:55:39 AM | | It starts with upper management. This franchise is such a mess they can't get a good hockey man to go there. How many have they tried to get without success. Why would anyone want to go there as long as the motivation is the profit line and not winning? | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4863 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 2:23:37 PM | ^^^well i do not see that as totally accurate...I mean after Ballard died in 90 the Leafs had a resurgence in the nineties....First under Flechter, a great manager, then bringing in Burns too.
The Quinn years up to 2006 were also good.
Fergie is the only real deadbeat that i can think of since 1990. But i agree, for today's team upper management needs to be better. We need a Bobby Clarke or Bowman type in the box office. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/3/2007 10:28:54 PM | | Gee I must have missed all those Cups Quinn won. They were mostly mediocre teams which seems to be all that leafs Stagnation aspires to. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 3:50:22 AM | "Bert has been in the NHL since 96 if i recall. It was not just to replace Penner up front."
I should have clarified myself. I don't think Burke brought in Bertuzzi to REPLACE Penner...I think he brought him there to TUTOR Penner. Bert was signed almost a month before Lowe gave Penner the offer sheet. THAT'S why I think Burke was so upset at the deal. He had spent a wad of cash specifically to turn Penner into a prototypical power forward, but forgot to sign Penner. He only had himself to blame but you know how some people are...never can accept responsibility. Burke falls into that category lol | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 5:53:05 AM |
He only had himself to blame but you know how some people are...never can accept responsibility. Burke falls into that category lol
Agreed jokester. I think Burke is good as GM but that which he blames Lowe of , is he not guilty of for the signing of Burtuzzi alone?
Did the Leafs win the Stanly Cup last night? | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 6:08:39 AM | He only had himself to blame but you know how some people are...never can accept responsibility. Burke falls into that category lol
Me thinks he doest protest to much! | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4868 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 8:24:33 AM | ^^^that makes more sense then jokester, thanks for the clarification.
And Kaos, if a stanley cup is the only measure of success, (obviously it is the ultimate goal aside from that) wouldnt that mean that many teams are just mediocore as you say about the leafs.
Vanvouver, Chicago, Boston, St. Louis just too name a few, have been longing for the cup for decades, similiar to the Leafs.
What about the Flames who have not won since 89?...some 17 plus years.
Or the Habs since 93 i believe (not certain on that)?
are these teams medicore too since they have not won the cup in YEARS. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 8:34:58 AM | """"Toronto radio airs Avery retraction
...Avery denied making the comments and his lawyers served libel notices against the Fan and the Toronto Star over the matter. Berger voiced the 46-second retraction that aired Monday.
"It was my intention only to report accurately on what transpired during the pregame warmup," he said. "Based on Mr. Avery's clear statement that he made no such remarks, my information and therefore my reporting does not appear to have been accurate.
"I truly regret reporting that Mr. Avery made any such comments. I apologize to Mr. Avery for having done so. And I hereby retract my comments about what transpired during the pregame warmup on Nov. 10, 2007..."""
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/hockey/nhl/12/03/avery.retraction/index.html | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 8:36:29 AM | Yes they are. But their fans are realistic. Remember also all of those teams you just mentioned have at least made Cup appearances since 67.
"Winning isn't everything...it's the ONLY thing".
Why compete if not to win?
That quote does not only reflect wins and loses.
It' speaks more about developing an atmosphere of winning. A winning organization. I think there are several in the NHL currently. Detroit, Anaheim, New Jersey, Colorado, Carolina. Over the last ten years these have been the organizations which have adopted a winning attitude in all facets of their organization.
Sorry but the Leafs just don't measure up! Thats why they are ranked as the 13th best franchise in hockey.
Very mediocre. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4871 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 8:56:37 AM | ^^^points taken...i'll agree that a chance in upper management is needed. But as long as the boss men see the huge revenues and #1 fan base, they appeared to be blind sided.
What were the rankings of the other NHL teams (you only posted a few of them)...13th out of 30 is not all that shabby. Sure in the top 5 would be nice but that will take time with the current bone heads running things. Perhaps Cogliano could share Raptor and Leafs GM duties. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 9:27:59 AM | It was a Hockey News (The bible) ranking.
These are the criteria.
1. Playoff performance: Last 5 years
2. Regular-season finish: Last 5 years.
3. This season:
4. Ownership:
5. Draft: Teams earn one point for every player drafted from 1999-2003 who has become an NHL regular.
6. Future watch: THN's ranking of the quality of each team's talent pool under the age of 22.
7. Front-office stability: Any team that has changed coaches and general managers more than a combined seven times in five years gets a zero.
8. Franchise value: Uses the annual Forbes magazine figures. Score: 4.
9. Attendance: Score given by percentage of capacity.
The overall rankings are as follows:
1, Detroit; 2, Ottawa; 3, Colorado; 4, San Jose; 5, Minnesota;
6, Dallas and Philadelphia; 8, Anaheim; 9, Montreal; 10, Tampa Bay; 11, Toronto; 12, New Jersey; 13, Carolina; 14, Buffalo; 15, Edmonton; 16, New York Rangers; 17, Vancouver; 18, Los Angeles; 19, Calgary; 20, St. Louis; 21, Nashville; 22, Boston and New York Islanders; 24, Columbus; 25, Chicago; 26, Washington and Pittsburgh; 28, Atlanta; 29, Phoenix; 30, Florida
oopse sorry Leafs 11th. Considering they play in the largest hockey market in the world this should be unacceptable to the fans. | |
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Pucks
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Joined: 10/14/2006
Msg: 4873 | |
| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 9:55:52 AM | ^^^good reading there.
well the criteria used is good.
how the heck does minnesota score 5th? they have done squat in the playoffs. They must score well in other areas.
interesting to see the Habs and TO almost the same ranking. The only original 6 team in the top few is Detroit. Rangers, Boston and Chicago do worse. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/4/2007 10:55:02 AM | It was a Hockey News (The bible) ranking.
Is that the same bible that predicted the Oilers and the Canes to miss the playoffs the year this thread started???
Kaos, what do people usually do with all the egg they get on their face when they keep saying a players lousy and washed up and over the hill and his swedish counterparts lobby Holland to swing a deal for him? Not saying that's happenning but it's been steady for a couple of days now on the rumour mill that Sundin's heading to Hockeytown....that and Kubina playing for the Marlies for the rest of the year when he gets back if his play doesn't improve. Kinda like Lamorello last year with Mogilny except Jersey got an exemption on the salary cap because of the hip. (Kind of an exemption anyway)
Who would like to see a Rangers Hawks final for the first time in their lives?
Good article on the Strangers in the New York Post today on the depth Sather has now to work with to turn some deals. Must be nice to have depth to work with.
BLUESHIRTS HAVE ASSETS FOR BIG DEAL
YOUNG RANGERS HAVE THE ASSETS TO MAKE BIG DEAL
(sorry for the caps ~ title to the article)
http://www.nypost.com/seven/12032007/sports/rangers/blueshirts_have_assets_for_big_deal_863328.htm
or, if that links too long, I shortened it down:
http://tinyurl.com/3ay9p5
Sounds like Sather's been a busy little camper. A Hawks Rangers final would be good for the NHL. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 12/5/2007 5:39:02 PM | Scott Niedermayer apparently to announce within the hour that he's coming back to play for the Ducks.
Meanwhile, Sens try to snap longest winless streak (7 gaems) in over 11 years. ..(the last time the Sens missed the playoffs ~ March 96)... tied 2-2 after one in Fla. They had a horseshoe getting a point last nite in Tampa. Went without a shot for over 16 straight minutes at one point last night. Maybe they'll snap out of their slump tonight. | |
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