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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/27/2008 1:09:46 PM |
sorry, but I lost all respect for Bobby Clarke in September of 1972.
Now I am wondering about you.
As for comparing Clark to todays NHL what's the point. It's apples to oranges.
Clark was a star in his day and one of the most feared and respected leaders in the league. He was also one of the first athletes to have to manage diabetes while playing. He is in the Hall of Fame for a reason. Is Anderson in the Hall? | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 1:40:55 PM | """...Is Anderson in the Hall?..."""
No He's not. Yet. But there are a lot of folks still lobbying on his behalf. He actually wasn't entirely washed up with the leafswhen we got him. He helped us out in 93 going to the Western final, and he couldn't have been too washed up because Keenan dealt for him just before the deadline in 94 for Gartner (another name that could perhaps be on there) on the Rangers, and he of course teamed up with the likes of Messier and Graves for the Cup in 94.
I think Sundin belongs there before Stastny, perhaps Patty Lafontaine,Denny Savard or Hawerchuk.
Billy Smith platooned with Chico Resch all those glory years with the Islanders. Dennis Potvin should be on there before Billy nutcase Smith.
And even though I detest Bobby Clarke, as a leaf fan, we have to give him his due. He was a heartbreaker. He brought them back from a 4-0 deficit in the third period of a game 3 where we had taken the first two at the Spectrum. You just could not kill that little prick no matter how much you tried. Alfie reminds me a bit of Clarke. That was the year Tiger blurted out on national TV, after game two the Flyers were done like dinner.  | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 2:10:05 PM | Kaos, I was going to tell you that Alyssa Milano was posing in a sexy Red Wings outfit (don't get too excited, she also posed in a Leafs outfit) on nhl.com, but after Pundit's remark about your "passing fascination" with Anderson...hmmm....
Is Anderson in the Hall?
His name has been mentioned many times over the years. It is just a matter of time.
No He's not. Yet. But there are a lot of folks still lobbying on his behalf. He actually wasn't entirely washed up with the leafswhen we got him. He helped us out in 93 going to the Western final, and he couldn't have been too washed up because Keenan dealt for him just before the deadline in 94 for Gartner (another name that could perhaps be on there) on the Rangers, and he of course teamed up with the likes of Messier and Graves for the Cup in 94.
Good point, Sterling. Just looked up Anderson's stats and he had 3 seasons with over 100 points and one season that was at 99 points, so we could say that he had roughly four 100 point seasons. In the playoffs, he averaged over a point per game throughout his career with the Oilers and roughly a point per game with the Leaf run in '93.
Here is a quote from wikpedia on Anderson that answers some of the reasons as to why he should be considered and why political reasons are factoring into the delay:
Glenn Anderson has not been inducted into the Hockey Hall of Fame (HHOF). Many supporters felt that his 6 Stanley Cup rings and his statistics - particularly in the playoffs - warranted inclusion. However, his playing career was clouded by problems relating to the media, and his retirement has been marred by documented failures to make child support payments.[1]
Anderson was noted for his aggressive "to the net" playing style, typifying the NHL power forward in the early 1980s. As an NHL player, he scored 498 goals and 601 assists in 1129 regular season games, and added another 93 goals and 121 assists in 225 playoff games. Noted as a "clutch" player, he was able to score key goals when the team most needed them. He scored 5 playoff overtime goals, third only to Joe Sakic's 7 and Maurice Richard's 6. On top of that he had 17 playoff game winning goals, good for 5th in the all time history of the NHL. | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 3:11:06 PM | Just to clarify...I wasn't insinuating that Anderson was "completely washed up" once he got to Toronto...just past his prime.
And of course Keenan wanted him in '94. He had Messier. He was looking for someone to ride on Mess's coattail 
I agree Gartner should be on that list. His 15 straight seasons of 30+ goals is a record not likely to be matched. And it was only stopped because of the stupid lockout in the 94/95 season. I remember that trade to Toronto and when Messier raised the Cup I immediately said "Man, Mike Gartner must be shedding a tear."
Incidentally, I must be getting old (OK I know I'm getting old I just hate admitting it)....The NHL All-Star game is just starting and I've never heard of the band they have on stage for the opening ceremonies (The Hives??)
Also, I have a real problem with Scott Niedermayer being on the Western Team. I know he's an injury replacement, but as far as I'm concerned, anyone who sits out the first 35 games of the season, just because he can, doesn't deserve to be in the All-Star game. Maybe it's just me. (And yes, I realize he is one of the best defencemen in the league. I don't care.) | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/27/2008 3:20:46 PM | Maybe I'm getting old, but that national anthem singer sounded like she sucked ass.
eerrrrr...outdone by the US again! Damn! | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 4:02:17 PM | 'k... i finally put my bifocals on and spotted Dennis Potvin on there near the top 10 which is too high looking at Robinson in 18th and Salming way down near 60. Robinson won more Cups and Norris's, and Salming finished 3rd every year behind both of them.
Maybe take Stastny, Hawerchuk and Lafontaine out to plug in Iginla, Sundin, and Adam Oates. Maybe I'd look at Gartner and Lanny replacing Dennis Savard and Crosby. I dunno. Tough list to improve a lot on.
I heard the Strangers are retiring Graves's number 9. Makes you kinda wonder who Hall of Famer Andy Bathgate was... | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 4:21:14 PM | | If you're going to consider Lanny, then you also have to look at Mike Modano who had better numbers. | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 4:42:08 PM | | There's another good name there. Modano. That name is synonymous with the Stars organization and should be on there somewhere. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/27/2008 5:07:52 PM | | Hmmm...something just occurred to me. How does Clarke rank above Scott Stevens? Stevens led his team to 3 cups and was instrumental in waking up his team with devastating hits to other players. I can think of a few series he single-handedly turned around. | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 5:35:09 PM | Its amazing the only players you talk about are Leafs...
'k... i finally put my bifocals on and spotted Dennis Potvin on there near the top 10 which is too high looking at Robinson in 18th and Salming way down near 60. Robinson won more Cups and Norris's, and Salming finished 3rd every year behind both of them.
Maybe take Stastny, Hawerchuk and Lafontaine out to plug in Iginla, Sundin, and Adam Oates. Maybe I'd look at Gartner and Lanny replacing Dennis Savard and Crosby. I dunno. Tough list to improve a lot on.
Oats over Hawerchuck and LaFontaine never!
It is early for Crosby I agree but he is a better hockey player than McDonald. Sitler before McDonald.
Dennis Savard certainly deserves to be on the list.
Talk about the Hall what about Dino Cicerelli? | |
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Posted: 1/27/2008 10:43:02 PM | | if anderson did not playing for the oilers he is already in.....i think he would rather of played for the oil than be in the hall.cicerelli has no chance of being in the hall.crosby is a better hockey player at his age then 95% of the players in the hall.he will give a few of gretzkys records a scare.salming was every bit as good of a defensman as brad park,potvin,and murphy.all in the hall. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2008 3:48:26 AM | "cicerelli has no chance of being in the hall."
I tend to agree with you and that's a shame. I believe he is the highest-scoring undrafted player in NHL history and to me, that's a great message to send to kids - that the NHL draft is not the end of the line.
"crosby is a better hockey player at his age then 95% of the players in the hall."
You know what? The more I see the two of them play, the more I like Alexander Ovechkin over Crosby.
As for Crosby giving a few of Gretzky's records a scare, which ones are you referring to? Because, to be honest, the vast majority of Gretzky's records are so mind-boggling, I just don't see anyone touching them.
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Posted: 1/28/2008 4:05:46 AM | wemm wasnt gretz undrafted? he signed with the wha, i may be just be tired and not thinking.
have to agree i think i would take a.o. over crosby in a draft. a.o. plays with a passion and love for the game thats going to be able to push a team deep into the playoff's. the kid just loves playing hockey, thats great to see.
go flames go
in sutter we trust | |
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Posted: 1/28/2008 8:44:37 AM | Oates is 8th all time in assists, 15th all time in points. Nothing against the golden Brett, but he never put up regular season totals again matching any of the three seasons he had when Oates was on his line in St. Louis. If someone would rather have Pat Lafontaine, go for it. I'll take Oates. Just an elite playmaker/passer in his day.
Anderson was the nastiest of the Oilers. He wasn't carpetbagging off the rest of that team. He was plain nasty. Messier was mean, but Anderson was nasty, especially with his stick.
Just to clear up any confusion, mentioning Lanny for so and so, doesn't mean that's where I'd slot the guy suggested. I'm still looking at who's on there, and who else maybe should be. Lanny was just a shot, but there's other guys that belong on here maybe before people like Lanny, such as Modano, Oates, Sundin, Iginla, Gartner, Larry Murphy maybe over Rob Blake...
As for the Leaf comment, Lanny couldn't have been considered based on just his Leaf record. More for the solid way he finished off his career out in Calgary. i think he got 60 goals there one of his last seasons, and played just as big a role as any other Flame helping them to their Cup in 89.
Gartner's career spanned several hockey clubs, not just the Leafs. i was thinking of him more in a Caps uni. But even in his 18th season he popped off another 30 goal season for Phoenix shortly before he retired. 708 goals. 16 out of 19 seasons a 30 goal man, and like pundit said, 15 in a row. Not bad. So i'm not lobbying for more leafs, but Sundin should definitely be on there. He looks like he's still got lots of gas left in the tank, and he's already 30th all time in points.
The point with Salming was simply that if you switched Salming for Potvin on the Islanders in real life, Salming would have won the Cups and the Norris's as well. Potvin had little on Salming, but I'm glad to see Salming make the list. It was big Larry Robinson that was the guy to beat every year for the Norris back then. Park was a close second to Bobby Orr all those years those two competed as well, so I think Park should be higher than Potvin or somewhere close to him. Park was one really good defenceman that also set the tempo offensively much the way Orr did.
For one more islander I'd have picked Butch Goring instead of Billy Smith. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 9:02:17 AM | | ovechkin and crosby are to this generation what gretzky and lemieux were to theres.cicereli was a terrible teammate.he was useless defensivly and he didnt care.you can put bure,mogilny,and klima in the same catagory.he was a power play specialist,and doesnt deserve to be in the hall. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2008 10:22:15 AM | "wemm wasnt gretz undrafted? he signed with the wha, i may be just be tired and not thinking. "
No, you're absolutely right Smack...Gretzky never was drafted. But that's because the summer he was eligible for the NHL draft was the summer the WHA folded and the Oilers were admitted into the NHL. They were allowed to protect three players upon entry and of course, Gretz was one of them. So Gretzky was never eligible for the NHL draft.
The most amazing thing about that draft is that the Oilers picked Mark Messier with the final pick of the second round...48th overall. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2008 10:26:59 AM | "Now I am wondering about you. "
You're wondering about me because I have no time for a hockey player that purposely went after another player for the sole intention of injuring him to the point that the victim would not be able to perform in a series any longer?
Well kaos, wonder all you want. I suppose you're one of those guys who thinks that Steve Moore "had it coming to him" as well. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 10:45:40 AM |
You know what? The more I see the two of them play, the more I like Alexander Ovechkin over Crosby.
have to agree i think i would take a.o. over crosby in a draft. a.o. plays with a passion and love for the game thats going to be able to push a team deep into the playoff's. the kid just loves playing hockey, thats great to see.
I have to agree with these statements. I watched the Caps/Penguins game last week and Ovechkin was a force. He went head-to-head with Malkin in a game of one upmanship. Both scored 2 goals and Ovechkin almost took his head off with an attempted bodycheck - even though they are buddies off the ice. Malkin was pissed and they had a little disagreement right after the attempted bodycheck. He has a passion for the game that combined with his skill can only lead to greatness. Crosby is great, but he just doesn't have the fire and the edge that Ovechkin has. | |
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Posted: 1/28/2008 11:35:56 AM | I have to agree with these statements. I watched the Caps/Penguins game last week and Ovechkin was a force. He went head-to-head with Malkin in a game of one upmanship. Both scored 2 goals and Ovechkin almost took his head off with an attempted bodycheck - even though they are buddies off the ice. Malkin was pissed and they had a little disagreement right after the attempted bodycheck. He has a passion for the game that combined with his skill can only lead to greatness. Crosby is great, but he just doesn't have the fire and the edge that Ovechkin has.
people used to say the same things about gretzky and lemieux.lol. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 11:41:13 AM | The times they do change.
Interesting to compare the Hockey News Top 100 (circa 1998) of all time versus their Top 60 since 67. There's a few anomalies, not to mention changes over the last ten years.
They've got Yzerman 78th, Salming 74th, Robinson 24th and Potvin 19th with Park pulling in at 49th. Gartner at 89th, Gainey at 86, Billy Smith at 80 right after Tony O at 79, Sittler at 93, Cournoyer at 98. Lindros at 54, Jagr at 37.
No Brendan Shanahan no Joey Nieuwendyk, no Cam Neely, no Lafontaine, no Dennis Savard, Hawerchuk, Oates, Rob Blake nor Modano. You would think by 98 that Savard (Dennis - retired in 97), Lafontaine (retired after 98), Hawerchuck (retired in 97), and Neely (retired in 96) would have made it on their lists by 98.
I'm not sure how much weight they put on the pre-67 on their post 67 list. If they're going to go with Beliveau on their post-1967 list, they should have made a spot for Johnny Bucyk (45 all time- 2 spots ahead of Gilbert Perrault). The Chief.
Still no sign of Larry Murphy, but old number 9 for the Strangers (Bathgate) is there at 58, but i don't see Adam Graves there...lol
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The judges involved in making the selections for this list include writers, journalists, and broadcasters (Don Cherry, John Davidson, Milt Dunnell, Stan Fischler,****Irvin, Brian McFarlane, Bob McKenzie, Jim Matheson, Harry Neale, Frank Orr), as well as coaches, referees, general managers, and former players (Al Arbour, Scotty Bowman, Emile Francis, Howie Meeker, Scotty Morrison, Roger Neilson, Bud Poile, Sam Pollock, Marcel Pronovost, Billy Reay, Glen Sather, Frank Selke, Harry Sinden, Red Storey).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Top_100_NHL_Players_of_All-Time | |
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Posted: 1/28/2008 12:23:11 PM | Agreed. Making such a list seems to be an impossible task with so many different opinions involved. I'd like to see individual lists from some of the more respected figures. Anyway, it looks like people are so confused by some of their selections, they've resorted to calling the judges names (deserving of course):
,****Irvin
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 1:58:03 PM | Lanny MacDonald should be in just for his moustache alone! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 2:50:37 PM | Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 11 15 AM
"wemm wasnt gretz undrafted? he signed with the wha, i may be just be tired and not thinking. "
No, you're absolutely right Smack...Gretzky never was drafted. But that's because the summer he was eligible for the NHL draft was the summer the WHA folded and the Oilers were admitted into the NHL. They were allowed to protect three players upon entry and of course, Gretz was one of them. So Gretzky was never eligible for the NHL draft.
The most amazing thing about that draft is that the Oilers picked Mark Messier with the final pick of the second round...48th overall.
he wasnt eligible for rookie of the year for the same reasons.the n.h.l at the time was really choked that he took the route he did. | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 3:01:20 PM | | Montreal Canadiens all the way! | |
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| Hockey anyone?
Posted: 1/28/2008 3:01:38 PM | | Montreal Canadiens all the way! | |
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