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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 276 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/26/2006 8:00:49 AM | what you say is true...I couldnt help but laugh reading alot of that...too familiar, there are a million McDojo's as I call them willing to give out belts for $$....I prefer no belt system at all...was it not bruce lee who said belts are only good to hold up your pants? Bruce lee was truly the first well known cross trained Martial Artist that was well known...he did some submissions and grappling (with gene lebell) He had the open mind so many lacked at the time.
There are good TMA senseis out there but they are not as common as they should be, people that decide to take a TMA or even MMA (tons of phony schools around now too) really need to do research first.
most MMA fighters did not start to learn self defence, they were street fighters before (not all but alot)
In a one on one street fight...no weapons...an MMA fighter has the best chance.
however...being in a million fights I know a few do's and donts that people who never had bar fights or anything ouside of competition dont know. Sounds like you will already know the obvious having done that too.
you dont want to take it to the ground most of the time.....one on one sure...but to be honest I do not remember the last "one on one" fight I have had....sure I can take him down, pound him for a few shots and get his friend kicking me in the face (had this happen when I was jumped by 3 guys)
as you said...most of the time you dont see it coming...well if you get attitude first you are cautious but normally its not squaring off...its a sucker punch or a beer bottle (got a few scars on my head from that too)
street fights are a different game...alot of stabbings in london and gang beatings...same as toronto (well lol, you do have more murders/gun crimes) but ina street fight it is survival...Rear naked choke? not likely...survival is all you care about...no refs, no tapping...just do as much damage to as many people as you can.
So I guess it really is the size of the fight in the dog...
lol....so true...after all I do have 2 pitbulls ;) (they are lovers, not fighters though lol...I dont let them get at other dogs though)
but it is a true statement, I have seen huge bodybuilders do a huge cycle of juice and think they are "tough" all of a sudden....yeah, you can bench press 400 pounds...wow, impressive...now see what happens next...muscles need oxygen...I met Nasser el sonbaty...a pro heavyweight....2 weeks before he was going to the arnold classic...full of gear and duiretics...so of course he has to piss every 5 minutes...he was out of breath walking 10 feet...his flexability and agility? non existant.
anyways pools in london...well are you in need of a gym for weights? lots of big gyms for that, also the auqutic club, just an olympic pool...then in the summer...the beach is not far.
also....I know the feelign about crossing the border...just need a nice customs officer and hope they dont run your ID | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/26/2006 10:39:46 AM | | MMA is the only thing I am concerned with when it comes to sport... ok i lied a bit of K1 also. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/26/2006 11:35:20 AM | this is a never ending debate IMO. I personally know some flakey TMAists and I know some TMAists that I care not to get upset! lol. it depends on the person and school. The shitty part is that most mcdojo's excist because they like money!.
I also disagree with most MMA fighter being "street fighters" most came from TMA or nothing at all IMO. But opinions are like a$$holes. | |
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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 279 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/26/2006 3:38:14 PM | sorry, alot "I" know came from a fighter background, but yes, there are many who came from TMA backgrounds...some both.
but a good street fighter with the ability to learn has a good advantage. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/26/2006 11:59:28 PM | In a street fight... the mounted position can be a very dangerous one. Ideally, in a one-on-one confrontation, your ideal positioning is to be in the full mount. On the street, however, this leaves you very open for attack from multiple bogeys. The best position is standing with a rear naked choke applied, preferrably a cartoid artery choke as opposed to an actual rear "naked" choke. Police were initially allowed to use choke-outs on the assumption that a cartoid artery choke was being utilized. As we know...this choke restricts oxygen thru a temporary stoppage of BLOODFLOW to the brain, whereas a rear naked choke restricts airflow and catches some delicate organs (windpipe/trachea, esophogus for example) which can be crushed when squeezed by crook of ones arm and cause death by aphixiation (sorry its too late give a shit about spellin! LOL). Standin also allows you to use your assailant as a sheild from other possible bogeys. I explained all this in court (where the judge, who, while partially using my record as validation, declared me an expert in street fighting) when I self counselled myself to a complete aquittal for knockin out an off duty cop. Anyhow... this is one of MANY examples of where MMA and street fighting differ, and a whole different way of thinking, training and technique execution apply.The question is if one can perform in trhe others preferred arena. Personally... Id rather be street savy than dojo-wise, for the street is where real life, and death, is at. The ATHLETE in me wants to be a MMA competitor...the .. whatever it is in me will always relish... the rush and paranoia of a real nasty street fight. Havin my head fractured by bats, concussions from pool cues, being stabbed, shot, and sliced with beer bottles... and livin thru that almosts makes MMA fighting look... tame. Sorry but it really does. Earlier someone said they have no interest in watchin a death match. Neither do I. But...damn is a good street fight cool to watch too! And even a bigger rush to be in.
As for size... I was in Millhaven just after my 19th b-day and watched a guy called "grasshopper" (a really bad dude that was further honed in a dojo) give it to Howie who was a member of the 500lb club (guys who could bench 500 lb). Grasshopper was askin him where all his weight training was now, as he was kickin Howies ass hardcore. Weights... I dont touch. At all. I havent done any weights in a gym in like 6 years. Sure strength trainin is VERY important, but I get mine...in different ways. I need a ring, some mats, a heavy bag, a speed bag, a double-end bag, and a pool to train when Im stayin in London GT99..so any advice there is much appreciated!
Im off to watch some more K1! | |
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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 281 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/27/2006 11:05:59 AM | well obviously the bags, and mats etc.. will be at our club.
the pool well there is some at gyms (like fitness clubs) which I dont know if you just do road work and that type of thing on your own or use the cardio stuff (I dont personally) but if you dont use weights at all...why bother with the fitness club for a pool, be cheaper to just goto the auqautic center (think thats the name...I will check) or even the beach if ya got a ride...its not too far...peaceful when the peak hours are over...personally in the summer I like the beaches best, I know a few private ones, you can run there and there is some good sandbars further out that are the perfect height for me (your taller obviously) where I can do some resistance training under water. I like the private beaches as there is nobody to interup you, you can take in the smells and sounds and it just gives you an unbelievable calm you wont get with crowds around...and with me I like that, everything is just peaceful and tranquill.
plus I can take my "banned" dogs as well and let them enjoy being leash and muzzle free to play, they are great, they run and swim with me, never go too far. everywhere else has cops...and I dont get along with them often, powertripping and not willing to listen to reason....they dont like people who dont bow to them.
unless you meet an off duty cop who is drunk and stupid at the bar and threatens you after you kindly tell him the girl he is hitting on is your gf....now that was a fun night...but thats off topic lol, dont know how we got on that | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/27/2006 1:11:44 PM | The best cardio and strength workout I know of is power swimming. A LOT!! of ppl think there strong and in good shape. Have them do an intense power swim and you will see there true cardio level.
Most ppl will gas after 5 min. Reguardless of treadmill training.
It is also a great way to test ones strength.
I believe overall body strength is what makes you better then most.
You can have huge arms,legs,shoulder,neck,etc... but if vital parts of your body are missed in workout and therefore weak... Whats the point???
Strong fingers and wrists are key.
Does anybody know what their squeezing power psi is?
If not get it done by a doctor. It will give you a great baseline on your overall body strength.
If I can remember.. mines 115psi L 115psi R.
An average in shape adult male is normally around 100psi-110psi. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/29/2006 4:37:29 AM | My grip psi??? Nope, never even heard of a measurement for that, but it sounds pretty interesting. i wonder how relevant/useful that would be though... especially for a guy like me... whose hands are constantly being broken.
Might be helpful for a single guy otherwise...!
OMG peeps, did I EVER get my ass kicked Saturday night. I lost 4-2 on my UFC bets with my one training partner, including my loss for picking Gracie. HE GOT POUNDED!!! There were some people goin on and on about BJJ... wonder what their thoughts are now! Seems like Millitech's "Fighting systems" is the school to beat. To me, either style is just another something to absorb what is useful, andm, like we've been sayin, it comes down to the man, not the style. I wonder, now that Gracie is 11-1 in the UFC, if he'll want a rematch. Despite all Gracies trainin and regimen, I bet no one in practice pounded him as disrespectfully, and in such a man-handling fashion as Hughes did. Im not a huge Hughes fan...but he has my respects; not for the fight itself, but for is attitude and comments later. He spoke like a true champ, and my respect for him as a man has grown. Definately.
I wonder if Royce felt naked without a gi??? lol
There were some otherwise sweet fights, including Swick and the swick-o-tine, and one hell of a sweet knee knock-out in the lightweight division, a division proving to be very entertaining. Also... UFC 61 looks to be a great one with shamrock/ortiz 2 and silvia/arlovski 3 on the card. Any predictions???
As for the water training... thanks again for the advice... although the beaches in my area are to algae infested to train in, and most pools are too busy. And I agree about water training being a great strenth and especially stamina-builder... thats why I do it!!! As it stands, my London job trip is off line til my boss is outta jail, and I might be moving into a long term contract near here. I also found a place called Bruckmanns Martial Arts in my town, but no one was there when I went there twice this weekend. I may use those facilities, esp. with an open ju-jitsu tourney comin soon. | |
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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 284 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/29/2006 3:14:35 PM | grip strength is good in certain cases, mino is known for that in Pride, good to have a great grip in grappling to control the wrists etc.
testing for some factory jobs also do the grip test.
thats too bad you wont be in london now, but there is places to train your way. Bruckmans...didnt know loaf opened a gym. Justin "loaf" bruckman was a UCC fighter way back...good guy, not sure if he still fights much, he was UCC champ in the first few events. I didnt know he opened a gym, he was at Shahs last I heard. But he is a good guy and knows his stuff, I would give it a try if I were you.
Gracie has not evolved...Matt actually used BJJ against Royce, I was shocked to be honest, I mean I know Horn trains BJJ at MFS, but I didnt think matt would be as far along yet, not against Royce, but BJJ is always evolving as well, guys like lister and terrel have developed newer techniques...an unorthodox style and the gracies seem to be "unwilling" to change or learn the new stuff. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/29/2006 6:14:36 PM | Gracie has not evolved...Matt actually used BJJ against Royce, I was shocked to be honest, I mean I know Horn trains BJJ at MFS, but I didnt think matt would be as far along yet, not against Royce, but BJJ is always evolving as well, guys like lister and terrel have developed newer techniques...an unorthodox style and the gracies seem to be "unwilling" to change or learn the new stuff.
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Ok enough of this. Matt has trained BJJ and has great skills in this style BUT if you look closely Matt used mostly wrestling.
For instance wrestling has a clinch and shot...well before BJJ....once gracie went for the neck Matt used a duckunder maneuver to get Gracie down and to side control. Then he put royce in a double wristlock(catch wrestling) otherwise known as a Kimura(named after a judoka) and when royce tried to get back into guard Matt used a standard wrestling move the half nelson before taking the back and pounding away! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/30/2006 3:36:54 AM | three cheers for matt hughes (the next hall of famer) hip! hip! hooray! hip! hip! hooray! hip! hip! hooray!
he dominated gracie it just goes to show that mma
is the best there is | |
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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 287 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/30/2006 5:07:54 AM | sure, but BJJ is a derivative of old school judo newaza...a kimura is still BJJ...matt studies BJJ...sure MFS has taken some judo but Horn...who teaches their submissions is a BJJ'er.
catch wrestling...something you dont hear about much...MFS does freestyle and greco...not catch, sure some moves may be similar between the 3 but matt didnt learn his subs from someone who claimed they were catch wrestlers.
also technically he went for the kimura, however the sub...had it worked...was an arm lock...he tried for the kimura and switched to the straight arm....had it been a kimura the pressure wouldnt be the hyper extension of the elbow, it would have been a "shoulder" submission.
side control...knee on belly...back mount...all BJJ
the clinch and shoot...sure thats wrestling.
sure matts base was a product of his wrestling, but his transitions were BJJ. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/30/2006 6:22:06 AM | gt99 sure we can look at it both ways...In the early UFC's gracie was using (a sloppy) double leg takedown..wrestling...against shamrock who sprawled(i think in UFC 1 or 2) he did a sit out..again wrestling...
Also back mount is simply called double grapevines in wrestling, go to any high school wrestling match and you will see the "back mount" it has been around for hundreds maybe thousands of years in wrestling.
In other words BJJ simply borrowed moves from other styles as well so is Royce wrestling?
Nope his base is BJJ with some wrestling sprinkled in.
matt is wrestling with BJJ and boxing mixed in to compliment his abilities..I highly doubt that if Matts only style was BJJ he wouldve been able to out "BJJ" Royce gracie.
It was his wrestling that made the difference.. His superior base, his superior control, his superior takedowns and his superior takedown defense.
As an aside...I dont train at all now and havent in proably 5 years but I did wrestling while younger and irony....my 1st BJJ instructor was Sergio Monteiro who was also Pat Militechs 1st BJJ instructor...we worked no gi 99.9% of the time.. I was with him for 2 years until he moved back to brazil (he finished his studies in the us) .. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/31/2006 8:41:51 AM | Some interesting commentaries....
Now, my two cents.
Both GT99 and lakelandsm are actually correct... sort of. Basically... you are debating catch wrestling techniques and BJJ techniques. Sure, there are... varying nuances, but, essentially... MANY techniques of BOTH fighting systems... are essentially the exact same! This is what fascinated me thru my martial arts journey... how so may different styles have some very similar, sometimes IDENTICAL techniques and applications. The body's mechanics are what they are. the human body has its strengths and weaknesses, and application of certain attacks will be evident in any and all fighting forms/systems/arts. Like the arm bar. The kimura. The key lock. Applied one way, you bend and dislocate the elbow. Or... the shoulder. Or maybe you apply it another way... and snap the ulna and/or radius. Or dislocate the wrist. this is why I personally trained in as many places as possible... to absorb the data find the simmilarities, and learn how to utilize the differences depending on what kinda shit I was getting into. For example, I realized that a certain Thai kick... leaves you very open if you miss it. However, it puts you in the perfect positon... to execute a tae kwon do kick.
I think that Matt Huges had certain advantages that I should have seen.. or DID and ignored. One is that he is a present-day UFC fighter. We must ALL admit that the UFC has evolved and changed since Royce's days, esp. from the first 6 UFC's. It was easy pickings for Royce when it was TMA vs. TMA... remember guys? Remember those days, where it was partially a contest showcasing different styles and martial arts, and how the Gracies bragged about BJJ being the best? Well, back then it was certainly one of the best, partially cuz it evolved on its own down in Brazil where traditional japanese JJ was... transformed by Gracie Sr., who made it a grappling art. And then the original UFC favored grapplers in its rules. Unlike BJJ traditional JJ uses more strikes... like what Hughes did...he got his hooks in and pounded the head from behind (well... traditional JJ might have executed a wushu chop to the temple or cartoid, or between certain vertabrae to cause instant death). Well... Matt Hughes used... what? BJJ? Wrestling? Traditional JJ? NO. He MAY have a background in this ot that, but he trains in a FIGHTING SYSTEM. One created by Pat Millitech, to be exact. See... Gracie didnt realize what hes done... hes created MMA. And schools like Millitechs, ones that have created their own...what? A SYSTEM that employs... what? BJJ maybe? Catch Wrestling? Boxing?
Before in TMA we would occasionally see a Master of hight Dan ranking add his own variations to a traditional art and make his own ryu or school (mine would be saiyan-ryu for example! lol). Now-a-days, we see more now of MMA-type schools, like Millitech, Severs, or the Lions Den, or Team Punishment... that may favor one style over another (for example... may rely heavily on wrestling as its base) but incorporate, blend in, absorb, utilize and mimic useful elements (ie. strikes, holds, takedowns, subs, and a myriad of variations for each) and combine the "best' of each style or technique, in accordance to its founders preferences. Do you think Gracie was prepared to counter a kimura or triangle choke-out, or to counter getting his head smashed in from behind? I saw all of the preview shit, showing Gracies regimen...which is to be applauded. But... in the end...so what? big Deal! All that training to get manhandled? had that fight gone on... dont kid ourselves. Royce would have been hospitalized. Now Hughes, on the other hand, Im sure has much more experience in training against gettin pounded from ANY position, because he trains at a place that is an evolved system, not a traditional martial art, that was initially designed for the battlefield, not the octagon ring. We must all remember this. Like IVE been saying... alot of sure-fire ways to win in an MMA event... are useless on todays battlefields, primarily the ones on the inner city streets. So to say that MMA guys are the best... yeah, well... they ARE.....
at MMA!
Oops... another novel! Sorry! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 5/31/2006 7:05:33 PM | | good poitns made, it shows you cant just have a BJJ back ground alone anymore that you have to have 3-4 sound techniques to make it in the UFC | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/1/2006 12:27:48 PM | ..and that, bro, has always been my point, and where Ive pissed off a few senseis in my day, who thought their art was the "way".
To be a real warrior, whether your arena be the street or the ring, to be the best you gotta bring together your own personal collection of techniques, precticed over and over til its no longer conscious thought, and personally, I do not think any ONE art is THE WAY.
One must be ecclectic...
like Cell.
Id like to see a school-vs school tournament, where schools pit their best of each weight class against each other. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/1/2006 6:12:08 PM | | Matt dominated Royce simply because Matt is well rounded and Royce is not. Royce was the man when nobody knew what an armbar was. He did bring BJJ to many of us North Americans, but let's face it most of the people he beat were cans. The last time Royce fought was against Ken Shamrock and Royce left the cage looking like he got his with a shovel. Shamrock was nowhere near the level of fighter that Hughes is now. I just didn't expect Royce to give up his back so quickly, thought I was looking at Frank trigg for a second. | |
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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 293 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/1/2006 6:55:15 PM |
..and that, bro, has always been my point, and where Ive pissed off a few senseis in my day, who thought their art was the "way".
To be a real warrior, whether your arena be the street or the ring, to be the best you gotta bring together your own personal collection of techniques, precticed over and over til its no longer conscious thought, and personally, I do not think any ONE art is THE WAY.
One must be ecclectic...
like Cell.
and that bro, is what I mistaking thought you were saying in the earlier posts, my bad for not reading...but what you said right there is my point....internet miscommuntication lol...that is exactly how I feel...by saiyin that (sorry lol had to use the name there) I think you are tailor made for MMA.
the way the sport has evolved, you use what you know but you still need to know a wide range of arts, no one thing works perfect on its own, of course your natural abilities and the training you got from the various arts will affect hwat you use mostly, but yeah bro, well said | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/2/2006 6:12:21 AM | | I am going to start a new thread..best base style for beggining grapplers and beggining Strikers.. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/4/2006 7:57:40 AM | Now that...
would be interesting L.L. (easier to type than lakelandsm lol)...
but maybe I can add another two cents.
When I breifly had my own school... alot of shit became very clear. First....
I can teach you everything I know. Every last technique/style/strengthm I possess I can drill into you. If youre lucky and work hard...you will become a Master of my Way.
So what??? What I learned, is that everyone who walks the path of the Warrior... must find his own path, and become the Master of himself and HIS own Way. I can direct you and guide you on your way, but it is for the individual to find his/her way for themself.
My root martial art is TKO even though karate was my first black and first love. However... this is my PERSONAL preference cuz I have gifted feet. I realized.. that many a student.. will never be as NATURALLY adept at throwin kicks as I am... so why turn them into something they are not? If I teach someone everything I know... they become a Master of my Way, which isnt where its at. We must become masters of our own Way! Each person will have mental and physical strengths and weaknesses, so a true sensei will find them, nurture, hone and refine the strengths, and bury the weaknesses. I Dont waste time tryin to improve weaknesses... thats a waste of time. You might not have the physical aptitude or flexibility to perform a Whye O Ree or a Whye O Ree Cha-gee Dwee Doul Yue kick (advanced TKD kicks), but are more naturally adept, have previous training in and are more comfortable with performing a Koshi Guruma or a Ura Nage judo throw. A true sensei, like a personall trainer...must spend time evaluating your abilities, and focus on what YOU are best at, and use a base martial art that best compliments your natural abilities. So again... there is no definitive martial art that can blanket everyones needs collectively... at least not in terms of maximizing ones full ability. martial arts is life, however, and part of that journey is finding these things for thyself... even if it means trial and error. One can certainly start with any number of excellent martial arts to start oneself off... and slowly gravitate towards ones strengths. The key is finding, identifying those strengths, and then working on them. Its dicey givin advice here... for one can learn anything anywhere and at any time, even in an art that is not IDEALLY suited for ones natural attributes. There are things like... the ethics of warfare (called bushido by Japanese), theres the benefits health-wise, the confidence, the training regimen, the respect, and humility that a good dojo of any martial art can teach... things that are vital pieces to becoming that Ultimate Warrior.
Remember the old kung fu action theatre movies? A common archetype to be found... is where the student is trained by the Master til the point that he surpasses the teacher (usually not realized til its time to avenge the teachers murder). I used to think... that was the ultimate test, and accomplishment as a teacher and sensei.I was wrong. You see, those movies fall short, for, as the teacher teaches, it is only the student who is learning something new. A true sensei.. will always in some sense be a student himself, and will never stop growing and learning, even if its from...HIS OWN STUDENTS !!
How can he be surpassed if he himself never stops learning?
In the end...I can know 1,000,000 techniques and ways to eliminate a threat...and you only ONE. What if.. youre one is not any of my 1,000,000... and can beat me? I MUST now learn it, embrace it, make it my own.. and continue to grow. Too many have aquired their Dans, and think they are king shit. They become 4th and 5th Dans, which is great, but to me...Id rather move on and learn an entirely new art. Great... Im a Volkswaggon mechanics specialist, but cant do shit when it comes time to fix a '72 Chevelle. I gotta be a mechanic that can fix ANY car, under any conditions with any tools, for me to be an Ultimate mechanic. How amI gonna do that when i get too focused on one type of car?
The point to all of this.. is that its most important to step forward and begin ones journey SOMEWHERE, whether it be in a Muay thai class, a judo dojo... or a ballet lession. Certain... trains of thought, certain... core essences will be gleaned with time, training and a good sensei. That is more important than the specific art- its teacher.
I started martial arts when I was 11, and its taken me many many years to learn all that I have about... myself, my fellow man, and the horrifyiong beauty that we call fighting, and all I can say is that taking a step forward, no matter in which direction, is what is most important. It will take... a lifetime to discover what is your Way... and honestly... if you dont start young, you will simply not have enough time to learn enough. I read and watch alot about MMA guys... who have been training hard and meen into fighting for...5 or 10 years. If time spent training = fighting ability... these guys would be good competition for me... when I was 16!
now... best base style..for beginner-grappling? my PERSONAL picks? geeze...
BJJ...shoot wrestling....judo... see I cant name ONE, but if I HAD to...Id say ju-jitsu.
Traditional JJ that is, cuz it also incorporates...striking!!
As for beginner-strikers...
probably Muay Thai, mostly cuz it traditionally has someof the most greulling training, and focuses on the nine key striking points we possess in our physical makeup- the feet (and shins), the knees, the fists, the elbows, and the head.
You combine the two, and you can create an ENDLESS collage of moves and techniques (I could show you, for example, ONE karate kata that will take a lifetime to master...cuz it can be applied in a plethora of ways, especially when combined with other pre- and post- manouvers from that and any other martial art). Now one might think that is useless in an MMA fight... what was the earlier comment? By the time I take the two seconds to think of the move and execute it, Id already be asleep. You assume... Im thinking!!
In the end... we must seek out and FIND...
our own WAY! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/5/2006 3:31:21 PM | Traditional JJ does incorporate striking... but the grappling is not "MMA grappling". It is mostly stand-up grappling, throws, and submissions immediately after a throw. While this may be effective for self-defense, MMA requires a more "positional" method of grappling, such as BJJ, wrestling, and to a certain extent, Judo.
Did anyone catch last night's Bushido welterweight GP? Denis Kang (Vancouver boy, and a teammate of my BJJ instructor's) DESTROYED Murillo Ninja in 15 seconds!!! Incredible! the rest of the card was pretty good too.
Also there is news that Pride the organization might be done... because of some yakuza scandal or something shady... oh well... good news for K1 heros I guess. | |
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GT99
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Joined: 5/13/2006
Msg: 297 | |
| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/5/2006 4:06:25 PM | yes dennis is awesome, super nice guy.
good for him, I support him but have to admit I was shocked he did that. I would love to see him win the GP, it sucks, Baroni lost...I know dennis hates him, woulda loved to see denis KO him.
fihlio will be a prob I think.
I remember when I was planning on working in brazil, denis emailed me and wanted to know how to work there too, he was pumped...I guess the original instructor he had went back to rio.
it didnt happen, I didnt go...he didnt go...but look at him now.
good for him, I would love to see him win it all.
I also agree with what you say...japanese JJ seems to have far less ground work than judo does.
the gracies claim no ties to judo...why I dont know, japanese JJ spawned a sub art of judo which took on alot more grappling (they took the grappling from JJJ and evolved on it), maeda who taught the gracies was an old school judoka...the gracies took the ground work of judo and evolved into a straight ground grappling art (well not 100% but pretty much)
it all came from Japanese jj, but they focused on one thing and created a new style...from there BJJ was created from a style within that new style.
BJJ and Japanese JJ have VERY little in common.
I could be wrong but I think Akido was spawned off of Japanese JJ as well.
I have never taken Japanese JJ either, just read up on it to expand knowledge and understand it, I am by no means an expert....I would love to check it out though, just to learn what its about, but I fear that the JJ schools are so far removed from the original art its not funny.
I would love to find a real good JJ school to check out though, just out of curiosity, you never know what you will learn | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/6/2006 6:53:34 AM | I watched an instructor teaching JJJ a while back and it was very "aikido like" from what I saw. They did play on the ground a little bit but I didnt see any randori(that day) so IMO it would be very difficult to become truly adept without sparring.
Now I was taking my son to day care and I saw a sign for a judo school and they also advertised Ju JUTSU..whcih in my understanding is the spelling used if it taught "japanese style" as opposed to jiu jitsu which is associated with the brazilian style.
Considering the instructor is also teaching Judo perhaps they have incorperated more ground work into his school. I have to go check it out. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/6/2006 12:07:43 PM | Wow.
A lot of knowledgable people on here.
I've actually been taking a hybrid martial art for two years now.
It incorporates several styles of Kung Fu, Muay Thai, Western Boxing and JJ. In reality, it's all so blended together that you don't know when one style ends and another begins. We do almost all two man drills with 0 time spent on forms/sets/kata.
At the end of the day, a punch is a punch.
I also watch MMA a lot.
Fav fighters - GSP, Kang (although I haven't gotten to see him compete very much,) Lidell, Fedor, Mirko, and a few others. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 6/7/2006 1:06:37 PM | In a nutshell...
jujitsu was developed initially around the 8th to 15th century, when most japanese martial arts ended with the term 'jitsu' (aka the Art). Then, with political Shogun shifting, during the meiji Restoration period...many martial arts - which were primarily weaponized arts- developed sub-groups, or had to go underground, and many arts, dropping the weaponized part, became "do' or the Way. Remember, for awhile, if you were not samurai, you could not carry a weapon in feudal Japan. So we see akijitsu becoming akido; we see ju jitsu becomong judo. Since there was more focus on weaponless defences, we see judo developing, embracing alot of the close-quarter and hand-to-hand stuff originally part of ju jitsu. Same applieds for akijitsu/akido, and studying the former also teaches sword usage and ettiquite.
BTW... ju jitsu is considered the father of not only judo, but to akido and hapkido as well.
The Gracies cannot deny any link to judo since both BJJ and judo are children of ju jitsu. I have closely studied the BJ, the ju jitsu, and the judo ground moves... and found huge similarities with subtle differences... differences that I think exist cuz each art has subtle differences in philosophies (a gracie would NEVER use a judo side-mount- Ive actually never seen one used in MMA- and such variances are why the Gracies claim autonomy from judo, and ego accounts for their so-called refinement of traditional japanese JJ.
If you look at the esentially same techniques of each art... there are definate, but very subtle differences, and these differences can be vital in certain situations. Ive found JJ moves leave you less open for strikes but more vulnerable for submissions, whereas BJJ leaves more openings for counter strikes but is great against counter subs.
Id have to SHOW you what I mean to really illustrate my point, but an example would be how jujitsu practitioners (esp. BJJ ones) lock their legs around their assailant when in full guard, where a judo sensei would totally forbid that, and prefer to see your heels dug into the assailants hips
Gotta run... be back with more info about this! Til then...
like was said... a punch is still a punch! | |
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