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Posted: 12/2/2005 12:30:22 AM | They have signed a re match...but I could care less....
when I want some good heavy weight knock out action...I click on Cro Cop... | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 12:32:56 AM | Tito is going to be a trainer in the next Ultimate Fighter that should be starting sometime after the new year.
True there are some people out there who remember Royce Gracie, but it takes awhile to build up a guy so that he is actually recognizable. Flipping through the PPV preview channels over the years, I would imagine that people who don't even follow UFC would recognize "Tito Ortiz" more than any other headliner UFC has had in recent history. He stands out personality wise compared to the other UFC Fighters. | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 12:46:11 AM | I would give any thing to see a Wanderlei Silva vs Tito Ortiz fight..Man talk about an azz whooping..Silva would be all over Him..in destroy mode.... | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 1:03:09 AM | I talk about Fight Club.
Again...Tito beat Wanderlei Silva in UFC.
that was a while back. Wanderlei was nowhere near what he is now. Put Tito in the Pride MW grand prix nowadays, see how far he gets. Won't be pretty. Plus, in a rematch, Silva would make Tito cry.
True there are some people out there who remember Royce Gracie, but it takes awhile to build up a guy so that he is actually recognizable. Flipping through the PPV preview channels over the years, I would imagine that people who don't even follow UFC would recognize "Tito Ortiz" more than any other headliner UFC has had in recent history. He stands out personality wise compared to the other UFC Fighters.
Meh. He's louder, is all. If anything could turn me off watching next season of TUF, it's the prospect of listening to him and Shamrock cut crappy promos and nag each other like an old married couple.
As to his recognition level, I'd imagine someone tuning in now would be like 'Oh, yeah, the blonde guy'. All the people see on Spike nowadays is Liddell. I'd wager he's more recognizable. | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 1:04:13 AM | Wanderlei Silva's fight game has increased in leaps and bounds since that fight..and since then beat fighters much tougher than what Tito has been......in a re-match Silva hands down...
Tito is the same fighter if not worse than what he was 3 years ago...Silva has improved big time | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 1:11:17 AM | If its under UFC rules, then no. ...In Pride, I'm not sure Silva could beat him. I'm going to say "no" because Silva beat on primarily japanese tomato cans. Other than Dan Henderson who is really a 185 pounder.....Sakuraba....also a 185 pounder.......and Rampage Jackson, who has Silva beat? A bunch of japanese tomato cans.
Silva didnt' even win the MW GP. Marucio Shogun Rua did. Silva lost to a grappler...Ricardo Arona. | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 1:14:11 AM | | Where ever.... Pride, UFC..his back yard for all I care ..Silva would kick his azz... | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 8:58:26 AM | lol @ sensi.. at least this has been .. amusing! Id just jump to the last paragraph for my TOPIC RELATED COMMENT.
And yeah Im definately.. delusional. Like I said.. believe what you want. And funny thing.. I always end up sayin shit..in response to comments (too many to quote and requote). And I didnt know points were being alotted for grammar and spellin... this is cyberland, where short form and acronyms rule! And that sounds to me like a cop out... its boring when people divert from the issues at hand and try to nit-pick other areas of insignifigance. And.. name calling? Well if were gonna get technical.. maybe so... but who affronted who? look how many insulting personal comments you made directly at ME when I hadnt said shit to YOU. GO! REREAD AND LOOK. And you wonder why I highly suspect your intellect! I hate when someone picks a fight (esp. when they lack skill) and then whines when they get beat down with extreme prejudice afterwards. Name calling? When? I did nothing worse that you, so practice what you preach. Youre right sensi.. I wont let dumbass comments get me down. The personal shit I can handle, if its thrown by a salient mind, and done fairly without blatant disrespect. Its the lack of comprehension, and accusations made by those far more guilty of offences (namely YOU prettytough) that p isses me off. I even concur with many things prettytough has said (except maybe for the personal shit thrown at me) cuz she simply said some sound stuff. Not cuz I was tryin to coddle you or win kudos p/t, but becuse you made sense in alot you said. but no, you blow right by that and many other things, and search out where you can further attack. Im delusional? youre confrontational.. or is sayin that name calling??? Look and worry about the initial action, and not the subsequent reaction. Maybe I chop off hands, but I wouldnt need to if a theft didnt occur in the first place. So dont whine when the fire you started burns outta control and gets too hot. Fine: I get two minutes for roughing, and maybe a game misconduct. You get 2 minutes for instigating... and maybe 2 more for delay of game. I get off topic dealin with comments aimed at me, cuz I got a crappy opinion I guess, and if they cant email them to me direcdtly, I deal with it HERE.
And dont blame me if you have a short attention span. If you read my postings youll see I respond to every retort, unlike others who maybe address one or two things I say, and never address the key issues, or, most importantly, capture the underlying meanings and philosophies behind what I say, irrespective of how irrational or ficticional I may seem. If I write something you dont agree with.. fine! Dont attack me for having my opinion, whether you respect it or not. On the street thatd earn you a b*tch slap, straight up. And dont bite off if you cant chew!
And I didnt back peddle on what I said about the UFC and its fighters. If you read all I had said from the start, and UNDERSTOOD what I said you wouldnt make such dumbass statements (more name-calling?) my position has NEVER changed... maybe after further explanation, you finally understood what I was saying, which you failed to grasp the first time around. You need to reread the postings.. but that might not help... you STILL might not keep up and follow. And if my revealing your.. nessience is construed as name calling, then so be it. Its hard when youre not catchin what Im meaning, and Im tired of explainin it over and over when you just dont get it.
As for my cartoon.. ever watched it and payed attention to the undelying messages? You can learn things.. from anything. A book. A hypnotist (theres that comment again... flyin over yoyur heads) or a psychic. And martial arts and life are entwined, and lessons in both are all around you, if you know what to look for. had prettytough been smart enough to do her homework and see the f*ckin link on my profile, it woulda explained a lot, like my martial arts credentials and philosophies, and my attraction to Dragonball Z. I also mentioned a guy named Carlos Newton, a lil nobody who beat the so called unbeatable Millitech (and his fighting system), who trains in a JUJITSU school here in Markham Ontario (less than 1 hour away) called... Dragonball jujutsu. He even threw a kamehameha wave at the end of his victory over Pat. Apparently, he...is on a level totally different that you are... and perhaps I am too. Again.. just cuz you dont know something, havent had the same .. revelations, or failed to see the merit in something, doenst make it invalid, especially to those that truly know. Instead of hating.. try to unsderstand and see outside the box. Or dojo.My mom is 65 this year, and calls me to get updates on whats happenin in our lil DBZ soap (the first episode she watched had a message, so moving, and so related to the Human Condition- and yeah she thought I was nutty watchin a cartoon- that it made her cry.) Maybe my delusions are inherieted ... or maybe my ability to see thru the trees. You havent searched to find out why youre... different, like I have. Or maybe you have, in a different way..I do not know your history. So dude.. you obviously have no idea what Im talkin about. I dunno... I guess youre not an anomoly. Or ever been... misunderstood. Or maybe you dont have gifts that you grew up thinking were curses. Maybe youre just a nice normal person, who hasnt had to hide under cars covered in blood while the 5-O are lookin for you, or growing up christian but not understanding what in you... relishes the taste of blood, the adrenalin rush of smashin someone, the high from the danger when another inch would have left you paralized or disfigured (the thrill of battle, like the Saiyans in my cartoon. Look at the different "illustrations" of MARTIAL ARTS ideologies, philosophies and principles between goku and vegeta, for example).
Ive seen some sick dudes and myself have done some sick shit that made me wonder what the hell I am afterwards. .Guess that comment was... miss-understood as well....oops.. there I go again, eh!! My.. stories have always been to defend my position, which is based on MY life experiences. Again, practice what you preach and re-read again, not only objectively, but with comprehension, cuz its useless to look with an unbiased eye if youre missing whats goin down.
And funny yardape.. I was out til the wee hours with my first sensei last nite (29 years ago he started me on my way) and he was tellin me about an underground toughman competition thats sposed to happen soon in Toronto, and listen to this... rumor has it that Couture is gonna be there to watch. My sensei.. my.. friend, whateva... was a pro wrestler once, and won an underground fight club tourney years ago in Montreal, and he asked me if I might consider goin into this one in Toronto (he loves watchin me go). I was kinda blowin it off... til I heard Couture might be there. I may go and watch it if it comes thru.. the last "event" got cancelled and we didnt get our money back. Im gonna try to sneak in a digital cam and video what I can this time...
As for that sambo thing... come at me again.. when Ive recovered from my training injuries! lol Seriously tho... you already know Im PERSONALLY not about fighting for money, sport, fun or fame. Well... the fun part, maybe...lol! reread what I said back when ffrosty was here... or stuff prettytough ignored, like
When you get so far in your training, when it has encompassed your daily life for a few decades, you dont train to be in good shape, or even to defend yourself. You train..for that one day. . And that one day Im referring to isnt for some cash. Or fame. Its for that drunk coked out guy whose comin at you with an aluminum bat. Or the 12 or more Baby Blue Crip crack dealing gangsta punks who permeate my neighborhood and wanna roll you for your shoes and jacket.
now that Ive addressed the stuff shot at ME.. lets move on to.. the forum topic! (and the crowd cheers!)
Tito is a big mouth and Sliva would beat him if they rematched... Tito indeed does remind me of Roy jones jr. in a few ways dragonred, including maybe jumpin into a weight class he shouldnt be in... Crocop I think would wipe him out. and not cuz hes heavier. Tito is a decent fighter, dont get me wrong yardape, and youre right, attitude is irrelevant where fighting skills are concerned... but I dont think Tito can fully back his mouth. And his present skill level... could be more impressive than it is. I dunno if hed take out any champs in ANY big MMA forum right now. Id like to see him and Randleman go at it again... call it battle of the bigmouths. We should get Tito, Arlovski, Crocop, and Fedor in a mini tourney... with special rules. I wonder who would make worthy additions to such a list? The top 12 lets say (presently, not all time)... and do away with the weight classes. Or UFC vs. Pride, since it looks like some fighters will otherwise never meet. And, like Ive been sayin.. theres still a lot out there.. that the mainstream of ANY country, especially North America, hasnt seen. So we'll stick to what we have!
Theres another thought bouncing around the forum. I remember way back in the UFC when there wasnt any weight classes... made for some good, and brutal fights (you dont see guys with 35lb weight differences anymore, like that one fight in UFC 2 or 3 where Orlando Weit a kickboxer got wiped out by this big Romanian or Polish grappler dude whose name I cant remember)... Should we continue with weight divisions (and add more as is being presently suggested in the UFC) or go back and eliminate them all? | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 10:18:16 AM |
As for my cartoon.. ever watched it and payed attention to the undelying messages? You can learn things.. from anything. A book. A hypnotist (theres that comment again... flyin over yoyur heads) or a psychic. And martial arts and life are entwined, and lessons in both are all around you, if you know what to look for. had prettytough been smart enough to do her homework and see the f*ckin link on my profile, it woulda explained a lot, like my martial arts credentials and philosophies, and my attraction to Dragonball Z. I also mentioned a guy named Carlos Newton, a lil nobody who beat the so called unbeatable Millitech (and his fighting system), who trains in a JUJITSU school here in Markham Ontario (less than 1 hour away) called... Dragonball jujutsu. He even threw a kamehameha wave at the end of his victory over Pat. Apparently, he...is on a level totally different that you are... and perhaps I am too. Again.. just cuz you dont know something, havent had the same .. revelations, or failed to see the merit in something, doenst make it invalid, especially to those that truly know. Instead of hating.. try to unsderstand and see outside the box.
Sigh. I knew I shouldn't have bothered. Now this thread is a few people talking about a sport they like, and three or four people talking about you. Definitely not worth the effort.
Here's the thing. For someone who keeps yelling at others to 'just READ and UNDERSTAND' your posts, you're awful quick to misinterperet. When did I ever say cartoons are invalid? I'll tell you when; never. You're walking up the downslide here. You implied, and continue to imply that people who don't like your particular cartoon are unable to handle it's incredibleness.
Example 1: If Prettytough had 'spent her life' looking for answeres, trying to find out who she is and whatnot, she wouldn't need to google Goku (assuming for the moment that she would need to do so anyway). Many people spend their lives searching for answers about any number of things, including themselves, and find out all kinds of great stuff without cartoons entering the picture. This is what I'm saying.
Example 2:
Carlos Newton, a lil nobody who beat the so called unbeatable Millitech (and his fighting system), who trains in a JUJITSU school here in Markham Ontario (less than 1 hour away) called... Dragonball jujutsu. He even threw a kamehameha wave at the end of his victory over Pat. Apparently, he...is on a level totally different that you are... and perhaps I am too
Carlos Newton is a good goood fighter. Add to the Militech win, some good matches against Hughes, Sakuraba, and some Shooto guys too. Carlos Newton likes cartoons. So what? What you're saying here is that since Carlos Newton likes cartoons, it validates your earlier premise that people who don't watch DBZ aren't interested in learning about themselves. I'd ask you to show your work on that one, but I really can't bring myself to care. I'm bored and I'm done.
Except for one last itch to scratch. When you fill your posts with little paranthetical inserts along the lines of '(boy you just dont know how deep my words have been, do you. You cant even see past the first layer much less the 3rd... like my last lines prior to these parentheses..profoundness would probably STILL escape you even though Ive just drawn your..attention to it).' you shouldn't be surprised when people point out your glaring inattention to the language you're trying to communicate in. Yes, it is the Interweb. Everyone makes typos. Some of us don't make a career out of it though. There's a difference between 'short form' and bad form.
Now. Weight classes. UFC - weight classes = Carnival Sideshow. UFC + weight classes = Legit sport that folks can actually make a living at. Therefore weight classes > no weight classes. | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 10:20:51 AM | Lol... Sensi.. your one funny dude.. I really.. appreciate your entries.. you contribute and youre funn as heck too!! Ill sign up for that match.. if its a joke-telling contest (I think sensi would beat me for sure) id say lets battle rock/paper/scissors (my fav way to battle, next to yu-gi oh cards! lol) but i can hardly make a fist with either hand.. so id lose again!!
Well..I could always bite ya sensi, cuz I suffer from tysonitis!
And Im glad to see someone else knows that DBZ rocks!!! 
Every day I try at least one special beam cannon or final flash!!  | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 12:31:58 PM | well sorry but its hard to type with busted up hands eh.
and youre right... maybe some havent looked nearly as far and as deep as I have. Or in the same places. Alot of peeps, esp. those in the Martial Arts world... know that specific cartoon. And you never did dis anything about cartoons, nor did I say you did. I said just cuz YOU havent searched in the places that I have for some answers doesnt make what MY search has led me find to be invalid. And I mentioned nothing about anyone liking or disliking DBZ.. I mentioned knowin its existence, and capturing the principles behind the show. Virtually everyone I know, knows that cartoon to some degree.. maybe even prettytough.. we dont know. I was questioning her credibility in terms of the depth of her martial arts training and searching (Ive mentioned doing research a few times), esp. OUTSIDE of the dojo (you catch that common theme in there towards p/t?? Why am I even asking....), and what other avenues shes drawn from in her search for knowledge and truth before she goes questioning or attacking mine, and stated that she probably doesnt even know about a martial arts cartoon. Hell..kids do... try dealin with kids in your dojo that are runnin around acting like their power rangers and DBZ characters! I was being rude and sarcastic at the time when I directed that comment at HER not YOU -my bad, and Ill apologizwe to HER for that, not YOU- in an attack on her knowledge of ..all things martial arts related (remember to note that she double-posted, with a second comment as almost a retort to mine when a third party made an innocent inquiry into Ontario dojos- maybe you didnt see that as a snide and counter argument to my comment to him, but I saw what I thought she was up to, and addressed it in my next posting... now didnt I ? cuz half her advice sounded like something someone could have done by typing "jujitsu in Ontario" in a search engine. Didnt catch all that? Not my fault, but then again.. why should you? I hadnt said shit to YOU) but you seem to wanna defend.. so go ahead. And (repeated again) my apparently inciteful opinion has led to a focus on ME... you keep blamin me for talkin about myself in my retort to PERSONAL comments that could easily have been emailed to me outside of the forum. So now we have another person who instigates and then cries when I respond. Let it go and move on.. especially if youre so bored and dont really care!! Seems like you wrote a lot about something not worth your effort. If so.. shut up already...ignore, move on, or address me outside of HERE! If I say something you dont like... topic related or otherwise, either ignore it or comment about it to ME directly. And when I say "read and understand".. AGAIN you dont even know what Im referring to, do you? if you dont... ask...politely! You seem to forget that my PERSONAL remarks are in RESPONSE to attacks.. cant you get that yet?
Read back with an unbiased eye, dude. This thread is a lot of people talking about a sport they like, and one guy talking about himself. Sorry dude but when people ask me a question (like.. are there people too deadly for the UFC) I answer it with what I know... my life experiences. What Ive seen and done. But maybe to some martial arts is a hobby or something to watch on tv, and not a way of life. And youll note my posting #10 (maybe you need my help looking?) was very.. risque, but the retorts I got werent offensive like the more recent ones. People wanted to know why I have the opinion I have, and maybe initially I said it in a way that rubs some people the wrong way... which does show us their true character, esp. when faced with something the arent in agreement with. Did goku question trunks' claim at being a super-saiyan, or did he believe him til otherwise was proven? At no time did he even question his credibility. And I tried my best to explain my mentality, which was related to the topic. maybe y'all shoulda chalked me up as a crackpot, ignored me and moved on. So...lets just chalk the whole thing up to me being a nutcase thats taken a few too many blows to the head and be done with it, cuz youll never understand where Im from, and thereby not see the UFC in the same light as me. I guess part of my trainin.. no my delusion, is the belief that I can beat anyone... in the right place with the right motivation. Fiddy cent talks about gettin rich or die trying.. Iron Maiden said you can take my life cuz Ill take yours too. To some.. losing isnt an option. Or a factor even worth considering. And sometimes winning isnt either. And fear is not even a remote factor. A true Saiyan warrior would rather die in battle, with honor, than lose or seek help. If prettytough was like Vegeta, shed be p issed at you right now.
A "concept" you seem to fail to understand...
So what? What you're saying here is that since Carlos Newton likes cartoons, it validates your earlier premise that people who don't watch DBZ aren't interested in learning about themselves . No man... youre missin the point. Again. if you look at the history between prettytough and I, youll catch ... no you wont. I first mentioned DBZ cuz of a philosophy I learned from it, one Im into so much I had it tattooed on me, and I explained this in retort to
Or how I can see all of their many mistakes because I know better than all of them. . Had homework been done, prettytough would see that earlier posts before THAT one addressed this comment in the first place...
I also watch the fights with a proverbial currycomb and see far too many opportunities for a match to be taken decisively by submission or k.o. and wonder, if they know what I know and can review tapes like I can then why dont they do it?? Hey, look how long it took them to render the guilotine choke out a passe submission? I remember all the blah blah about never turning your back on a Gracie, thinking what Id do if I DID, and finally someone figures it out and snaps a Gracies arm So I retorted to her claim by mentioning how I dont think that Im "better" at all, and told her why with reference to the cartoon. Sure I was being sarcastic (but... not directly name calling as Ive been accused of doing) when I said she probably hasnt heard of DBZ... to imply that she may not have gone thru as extensive a journey in her life, as evidenced by her comments. I could be wrong..only she can truly retort that, not YOU bub. Let her fend for herself.. everyone else here has, and has also been pretty good at using the scroll down feature, bypassed me, and continued with the thread; something I have done, and so have you, but she has not. Fend for yourself bub and stay outta other peoples scraps. Sorry if it was HERE.. where people like prettytough, and now YOU have affronted me PERSONALLY, but I dont see anyone emailin shit to me so I can answer them back...personally. As for short form/ bad form... you mean to tell me its so bad that you cant catch what Im saying? Sounds like a cop out to me. Email me properly, not here in the forum where I cut every corner I can, and maybe Ill write you a nice flowery explanation thats gramatically correct, has had a spell check, and executes flawless syntax, ok? Youre like those in the dojo who worry about their pretty form, where I prefer brutal effectiveness, and to win. Maybe...I read Mack Bolan and Remo Williams, you read Harequin. i dunno. So be it. Just dont use my inability to type and my use of short form to mask the fact that youre not catchin it all...
Except for one last itch to scratch. When you fill your posts with little paranthetical inserts along the lines of '(boy you just dont know how deep my words have been, do you. You cant even see past the first layer much less the 3rd... like my last lines prior to these parentheses..profoundness would probably STILL escape you even though Ive just drawn your..attention to it).' you shouldn't be surprised when people point out your glaring inattention to the language you're trying to communicate in. Yes, it is the Interweb. Everyone makes typos. Some of us don't make a career out of it though. There's a difference between 'short form' and bad form.
Again.. practice what you preach. And you were so busy fumin over the parenthesis comment that you didnt catch what was being said in the first place.. and if so.. then what was it??? Why not... focus on that? And remember... none of this was directed at YOU! run from the real issue... but remember rule #1 on the street and in the joint: mind your own biz. And, besides that... try using the scroll button!
you shouldn't be surprised when people point out your glaring inattention to the language you're trying to communicate in. Yes, it is the Interweb. Everyone makes typos. Some of us don't make a career out of it though. There's a difference between 'short form' and bad form. ok..sure... maybe I just got lots to say, esp. in response to bullshit. Or maybe you get lost and cant follow... theres others who havent commented in this forum who have caught a shitload more than you appear to have. I can only go on what you choose to comment on. Again practice what you preach....
Now. Weight classes. UFC - weight classes = Carnival Sideshow. UFC + weight classes = Legit sport that folks can actually make a living at. Therefore weight classes > no weight classes. Ahhh... Never mind!
Ok theres one opinion.. any others? I guess then that the UFC was a carnival sideshow until it implimented weight classes? We woulda missed alot of good fights, like Severn vs. Shamrock.. who gave up almost 50 lb in that saga. So much for the "not the size of the dog in the fight but the size of the fight in the dog" mentality... and personally (oops there I go again) Ive found it easier to spar and scrap big guys than small guys...
and make a living? from the UFC?? I didnt think they made enough to make a decent living off it. not compared to other sports. How much has the richest fighter made? Enough to retire with? I honestly dont know. Its not like football or something where theres million dollar contracts, but similarly, the athletes shelf life isnt that long. Tito said he doesnt want to fight forever (who does.. who can??)... give him a big enough payoff, and Im sure hed retire. Maybe.. long term $$$ from the world wide exposure and sideline goodies makes them enuff cash to live well. Eliminating weight classes might pit the best vs the best.. period. Like the old UFC where we'd see 8 man fight offs with all the champs and top contenders. At least we wouldnt have excuses like Tito not being able to beat someone like Crocop cuz ones a light heavyweight and ones heavyweight. And it would also allow fighters to fight at their ideal natural weight... no "Im too dehydrated from making weight and Im too washed out to be in top form", cuz not everyone can jump up and down weight classes like Tito. I dunno... maybe the visionary is right... I dunno.. I just think itd be a nice change now and then to see the best fight the best..screw the rest!
And if we are talkin weight classes...I still havent gotten a feel for everyones pick on the most promising, exciting and competitive weight classes that currently exist... and should there be a class between the 185 lb and 205 lb classes? | |
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Posted: 12/2/2005 5:46:54 PM |
Sayan. Paragraphs are your friend.
As a MMA I see Him as to having some great points in His topics...Very educational and fun to read. | |
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Posted: 12/3/2005 6:28:50 PM | ^^^ It looks like Saiyan is vying for it, instead. When you two get done, grab your wrench and oil rag and get your a*** out into the garage and underneath my car where it belongs.
I did not recognize the initial reference to a cartoon. I hardly ever watch TV, much less cartoons, so I am not familiar with their names. Even if I did, I wouldn't discuss a cartoon on a UFC thread.
Having weight classes allows for three things:
1.) It allows for more championship belts, which build suspense and drama as well as establishes a rough pecking order which is based more on skill than size.
2.) It makes it easier to make more even match-ups, especially when prospective opponents have both fought a number of the same guys.
3.) Allows for skilled fighters who are smaller to continue fighting, because their records would eventually end up reflecting their disadvantage if they were usually the smaller fighter. Royce Gracie was fighting in an era where many fighters were ground-stupid. That is no longer the case, so unless another glaring weakness is discovered in 95% of today's MMA fighters, I don't see a smaller fighter being able to come in today and do what he did. (Except BJ. BJ could beat Cro Cop, Osama Bin Laden, and THE Brian Boitano. Without breaking a sweat even. )
I definitely don't want to see the weight classes go away, because I think both of those things significantly add to the sport. However, it IS possible to make really good match-ups outside of pre-established weight classes; it's just harder. I think that once in a while it would be cool to explore that in the UFC, as Pride sometimes does. For Belfort vs. Herring, Pride modified some of the rules due to the size difference; rule considerations like that could help prevent "carnival sideshow" status for such bouts.
I'm agreeing with yardape though that no weight classes at all = carnival sideshow. | |
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Posted: 12/3/2005 6:43:00 PM | To heck with all this cute forum banter lets get back in the ring...
I want to see a CroCop/Silva 2 signed.....lets seperate the men from the boys.....CroCop/Antonio Rodrigo Nogueira 2...would be some awesome fights.. | |
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Posted: 12/3/2005 7:46:33 PM | Weight classes came along as part of the effort to make the sport more mainstream and more legitimate. There was a desire to get away from that UFC8 David Vs Goliath format.
*Note, UFC8 was the best UFC Ever*
These efforts included the mandatory gloves rule, the no headbutting on the ground rule, the swich from that 8 man elimination forma, steroid testing...all this was done to make it more of a sport and less of a brawl.
As the UFC strives for mainstream recognition there will be more rules. The weight classes are here to stay. | |
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Posted: 12/4/2005 10:46:49 PM | Sigh. Half past bored, but apparently not done.
1) I don't feel the need to defend anyone. I just occasionally feel the need to point out dumb statements. Especially when the person who made them is patting himself on the back over how profound they are.
2) The original point I felt need to mention:
You probably need your google to find out who Goku even is, but you wouldnt if youve spent your LIFE searching for answers to explain what the f*ck you are
This sentence means that all people who spend their lives searching for answers to explain who they are know who Goku is. Which indicates that searching for such answers leads inevitably to DBZ. It may not be what you meant, but it's what the sentence means. As assertions go this is obviously silly beyond the telling of it. Put a qualifier in the back half of the sentence somewhere and you're fine, but as it stands it's patently ridiculous. You make that kind of assertion in a public forum, someone's bound to comment on it.
3) Saiyan. Dude. I can't see any reason why I'd ever want to message you personally. Believe me, this is enough.
Right. On topic. Your point regarding Shamrock Severn I is invalid. Severn was 260, Shamrock weighed in at 205, but was apparently up to 225 by bell time. If that fight took place today, both guys would be in the heavyweight division. Better examples of good fights with big weight differences would likely be Pardoel v Weit from UFC 2 (The judo guy mentioned earlier), Marco Ruas v Pau Varlens (seeing the 'Trapfighter') go timber always gets a smile out of me), or numerous Pride matches, where they just alter the rules a bit for fights with big weight gaps.
And yes, I do categorize early UFC shows as a carnival sideshow. There were some decent fights. Even some decent fights between guys who'd be in different classes today, but those shows were a mess on so many levels that it ain't even funny. Hell, half the time an alternate won the night because everyone else broke their hands. In the face of all the other kinks that needed working out, weight classes would have been a drop in the bucket back then.
Eliminating weight classes today would put a lot of good fighters out of work. Hell, Carlos Newton, for example. We see a big strength difference even between people who are legitimately in any given class, and those who cut weight to fight there. Some of these guys don't even worry about avoiding submission, they just power out of them. Plus, in different classes, you tend to see different kinds of fight. Diversity in the entertainment. The blistering pace of Sanchez v Diaz was fun in an entirely different way than the plodding destruction of say, Buentello v Eilers.
As to classes. 185 is looking pretty hot, but I think 170 is where the madness will live this year. Hughes, GSP, Parysian, BJ, and that's just a start. The Welters are friggin' loaded. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 12/5/2005 8:48:10 AM | I actually agree with havin weight classes... and think that the UFC could look at maybe including a few more...
I initially inquired about weight classes because yardape made a comment about Tito being essentially too small to take on Crocop... an argument that has a lot of merit, obviously, but leads me to wonder who would win, not just between those two guys, but the respective champs from various weight classes. I also hate it when the weight issue is used as a cop out... but then again...Im biased there, seein that Im over 200lb. and have heard it said too often. And seeing that Ive been a UFC watcher from day one.. I was indeed disgruntled to see guys like Weit (whose TMA history I had followed prior to UFC fighting) lose to guys he shouldnt have been frighting. In todays UFC, I guess theres some fights... we will just never get to see. Just like pro boxing. We will never know who is the #1 overall top Ultimate Fighter. The ONE undisputed King Of The Octagon.
I guess Id like to have my cake and eat it too... I just miss the fights where a fighter would have to fight more than one fight in a night. Maybe they could have a battle royal or tourney within the top eight of each weight class. Id like to see some expansion.. to further test these guys. As we have stated, many UFC fighters excel due to preparation and studying their opponent. What if they had 7 other guys to prepare for instead of one, and had to fight different fighters with different skills and strengths in one night or one weekend?
Personally...Im in division between the 185 lb class and the 205 lb class as my faves to watch... partially cuz thats my own weight class... and even with a 20lb difference in those classes theres talk about maybe a 195lb class. I earlier said that no weight classes would allow a fighter to fight at their best 'natural' weight, but now I see that maybe adding a few more would better accomodate this. And maybe birth a few MMA versions of Thomas Hearns as well!! I wonder who currently in the UFC would be the most likely to be a multiple weight class champ? And what would a Pride/UFC match up of weight class champs would be like... I know theres alot of obstacles in the way of ever seeing that... Im just dreamin out loud...
I also need some further clarification on how a lack of weight divisions in the days of yore calculated into an increase in hands being broken. Im assuming that smaller guys striking bigger guys would potentially cause this? Usually anyone (like Tyson for example) whose a naturally hard puncher will break his hands many times, often in training, and never from fighting outside of their weight-class. Ive broken my hands on guys smaller than me. Some people even get into grappling/submission oriented arts because they are natural strikers, have paid for it, and have the busted up hands and multiple surgeries to show for it.
And as for YOU prettytough (being sexist now? GREAT!)... oil change is done.. I also rotated your tires (you were just too flat), and fixed that sorry assed bumper, your headlights are just too small and pathetic to try to do anything with, and I tried to brush off your grill but cant see much hope there either. I also cant help you with your steering, cuz you seem to wanna keep driving in the wrong direction. Sigh... women drivers. Now that Im done, why dont you be a dear and get back in that kitchen where you belong, and fix me and the boys some sandwiches while we leave the man-talk to the MEN. And rub some aloe on those stretch marks... youve still gotta alot of breeding to do (and no not with your cousin this time). Now... dont trip on those apron strings, and dont forget to scrub the floors real clean. While youre down there...
And lastly:
This sentence means that all people who spend their lives searching for answers to explain who they are know who Goku is. Which indicates that searching for such answers leads inevitably to DBZ. It may not be what you meant, but it's what the sentence means. As assertions go this is obviously silly beyond the telling of it. Put a qualifier in the back half of the sentence somewhere and you're fine, but as it stands it's patently ridiculous. You make that kind of assertion in a public forum, someone's bound to comment on it
And this is the guy who wants to be critical of grammar, spelling, and sentence structure?
Deviod of abreviations perhaps, but dude talk about a disjointed bunch of sentences! Normally I wouldnt say shit cuz I can still decipher what youre tryin to say... just dont be critical when youre far from perfect yourself! And oh gee thanks for the advice, but, really, ridiculous is someone givin advice on something that theyre not grasping, and especially ridiculous when its on a topic that is none of their concern. Unless maybe you want prettytough to come protect you. LOOK! another one just flew over your head! I should just leave it at that like you would, and not address what you actually SAID... but that wouldnt be ME!
My assertion was perhaps said in a public forum, but was clearly targeted at someone directly. That someone NOT being you man. I have, and still do, read your comments on this forum with great interest, cuz youve been one of the best and most knowedgable people here. But you had to come to the rescue of prettytough, who doesnt need your help. Read her other forums, and youll see.. shes used to cyber scrappin, and why I earlier called her an instigator and said she was confrontational. And how nice of YOU to jump in with your critique... glad you took it upon yourself to do so, especially when no one else saw a need to. Oh, youre just sooooo the hero!!
And if you were followin the FIRST time youd see that there was an implied qualifier ALREADY THERE...(you wonder why I say that youre not keepin up and that Im too..profound for you?) REALIZE that the point made wasnt even about Goku or DBZ, it was the fact that she sounds like someone whose knowledge is aquired from doing google searches (hence, she in turn is being a keyboard warrior as she accused me of being), and is someone who doesnt have a life outside of the dojo. Like... hmmm, lets see... like someone who doesnt watch T.V. or has the time to watch a stupid cartoon. I have seen this kind before. One whose search to finding all there is to know about martial arts is appaerently limited in many ways, lack of DBZ knowledge being but a tiny piece chosen by me (in light of her comment about me thinkin I know more than UFC fighters, I responded by tellin her about my lessons in humility and my personal testament and level of conviction to that credo, as evidenced by my tattoo depicting something she has no understanding of, so how can she thereby hope to understand me, or what Im saying!) to illuminate her nessience. And lo and behold.. I was correct. Her advice about potential martial arts schools was what I was also attacking at the time, for I question advice given by someone whose knowledge ..is limited, and almost reads like a search engine print-out...or anyone whose never had to look outside the dojo to find answers (or even knew that there were questions to be asked) especially when it comes to scrapping. Actually, you can go back and re-read my earlier thread entry...Im tired of repeating myself for those who aint keepin up, following, or simply catching all my points and implications, whether they agree or not (and thanks to those of you who HAVE been keepin up, even if.. you disagree or think Im delusional or whatever). Prettytough shown this inability, cuz she has failed time and time again to see the many areas where we concur. And she just cant keep up, or do homework. Oh little girl..just so ya know.. it was visionary, not yardape that made the carnival sideshow comment.. please be a dear and try to keep up if youre gonna play with the big boys like you seem so preoccupied with doing, okey-dokey?... I think its YOU a guy would be needin protection from! Is you last name Bobbit by any chance??
If youre gonna defend someone, you better know what youre jumping into, and know the full argument. Better yet: mind your own business. And this is why I say direct the personal comments to me by email and not here... if its not worth the effort to do so THERE, then why the hell make the comments HERE? And you wonder why I "pat' myself on my back? Again, forget it man, youre provin my point for me time and time again and you dont even know it. Like I said... youre catchin the first level, never mind the deeper implications, but I know its not YOUR fault...I do have a habit of moving too fast for the majority to keep up to. Including you it seems. No biggie.
And sensi...hope you get that hug... I know I sure dont want it... I live in Canada and its cold enough already! If we did have our rock/paper/scissors battle would we have to have hand-size divisions? and if you want the inside scoop on how to win.. go with scissors.. my hands arent ready yet to go anything other than paper!!
And looki-lookie everyone, saiyan atually knows how to use PARAGRAPHS! | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 12/5/2005 9:01:38 AM | | I think it would be cool if once say every 4 or 5 years UFC, but more likely Pride had an open weight class Grand Prix and put their best fighters on display. That would be VERY cool. However, the result would probably be a predictable Fedor win. It would be fun to watch him pound on Sakuraba though. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 12/5/2005 1:06:32 PM |
And looki-lookie everyone, saiyan atually knows how to use PARAGRAPHS!
I noticed. You can't hear me, but I am clapping. Heh.
As to most of the rest, I ain't going back, except to reiterate. 1) I don't feel the need to defend anyone. 2) If I read something that strikes me as well, stupid, I get annoyed. If the offending statement is in a public forum, I'm prone to commenting on it. Everything I have to say on the subject is covered in earlier posts.
Now, with 33% more topic! Improvement.
To clairify about the broken hands. Lack of weight classes didn't have any real effect on the number of pullouts in early UFC shows that I know of. That was more due to lack of gloves combined with the one night tourney format, in my opinion. I was pointing out that fixing that the weight class issue was one of many things that needed working out. Compared to all the other problems, weight classes wouldn't have accomplished much.
I wouldn't mind seeing the UFC institue a policy for occasional fights between classes. Pride has one and it's led to some good fights on occasion. Hendo v Minotauro springs to mind. That was friggin' epic. But as far as all around champ? I dunno. One of the things I love about this sport is that you can't count anyone out. I mean, we live in a world where Kevin Randleman holds a KO win over CroCop. The mind boggles, it does.
In practice, though, I can't see anyone from a lower class beating Arlovsky. Against smaller guys his reach would be a huge advantage. Anyone with a ground game can pretty much forget it, too. That kind of weight and strength differential? Tough row to hoe.
I don't currently see a lot of drama in Interpromotional championship matches today. I've always contended that Pride draws generally better talent. Like any sport nowadays, the best go where the money is. As much as I like the Pitbull, I don't think he's in the same league as Pride's big three. Similarly, I don't think Liddel could take Silva. Granted, my main basis for this is comparing their performances against Quentin Jackson, and that kind of comparison is an enterprise fraught with peril, but I just don't see Chuck having the chops.
What I'd like to see would be for the companies to trade some also rans. I'd like to see guys like Herring and Igor Vovchanchyn try their luck in the cage. Igor in particular. When he first dropped to 205 he looked like a monster. That kind of form in the UFC? I think he could do great things. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 12/7/2005 3:13:42 PM | I think you are talking shit. The early stages of UFC, were the top guys from every art (Kung fu, Karate, Ninjitsu, all there best) fighting for supremecy. The winners, Muay Thai, BJJ. From that evolved what is now MMA competition, as the fighters eliminated what didn't work, and trained in what did. I have fought professionally in Thailand in Muay Thai, Boxing in Canada, Heading to Brazil for the winter to train BJJ. I don't hide in the shadows. What do you think would happen to say Tito if Chuck didn't let go when he tapped (hmmm dead or very broken I think)
So stick to the shadows. Shadow warrior. And leave the real fighting to the pros | |
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