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| New Challengers
Posted: 1/4/2006 8:06:35 AM | I'm not going to go quite that far, RP. The thing of the thing is that boxing was pretty stagnant when Mike came along. MMA is still a very young sport, evolving fairly quickly. Seems like there's always someone who looks invincible, but I'm not prepared to say that the primordial ooze won't spit out an anti-Fedor next year.
I think the Tyson comparison applies to Arlovsky a lot more readily. He's fought the best opponents they could find for him, but he still hasn't been tested since he came into his own. | |
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| New Challengers
Posted: 1/5/2006 11:20:21 AM | I totally agree with you there PV. Boxing, especially the heavyweight division, was far from top notch during Tysons prime. To say hes a fraud... is stretchin it a lil too far. Perhaps not a polished boxer... but certaionly not a fake. Comparin Iron Mike and Fedor in terms of contributors to the promotion of their sport is... invalid. Comparason of their fighting spirit is a different matter. Fedor still hasnt done nearly as much to launch MMA into the mainstream as other fighters, especially the Gracies, whether you love em or hate em, thats the truth. And Mike Tyson was no Tiger Woods to boxing either, and didnt really open any new markets or attract any new audiences... boxing had at least a solid 100 years of history prior to that one lil blip we call Iron Mike.
As for Shockwave... saw it and enjoyed it immensely... although virtually every fight... left me somehow slightly dissatisfied, and I cant put a finger on why. I still see... a collective overall level of fighting that may be above the UFC, but still not... the best there is out there. I still see... many flaws in every fight I watch. I know, I know, its easy to be an armchair critic and spout off in the comfort of cyberspace, but... Im tryin to be honest and call it as I see it. I still say ther is another level or two higher that exists out there, but probably wont be seen. I intend to find it, and recently I have been lookin into the underground fight scene thats in Montreal. I want to see.. flawless application of technique done with brutal and efficient effectiveness, where I do not see.. flaws, failed opportunities, and guys who just lie there and allow themselves to be submitted or beaten. Out of ALL the MMA fights Ive watched and rewatched... only a few really impressme, like when Gracie didnt tap out after havin his arm snapped- they should have let the fight continue...
There have been a few glimmerin examples of some of what I DO wanna see, and Fedor has been one who has at times exhibited skill that Im expecting to see.
I dont know if any of you have heard of the Canadian MMA event called King Of the Cage... but keep an eye on it. Maybe soon... we will see just how much shit Ive been talkin! Any monies aquired... will be donated. And I wonder where that dude went to that was spoutin off about bein a pro thai kick boxer... I woulda loved to have him kick the shit outta me (yeah I know.. thats a lot to kick!)...findin someone who can hand me an ass whoopin is a dauntin task... but its a necessary part of training.
Hope you all had a great new year!
Long live MMA! | |
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| its amazing to me, the things that i see
Posted: 1/12/2006 8:32:37 AM | If any of you want to see some of the fights from the last Pride...go to Youtube.com ..punch in the name of the fighter you want to see...and it should be posted still.
You're welcome. | |
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| its amazing to me, the things that i see
Posted: 1/14/2006 4:53:09 PM | the Mike tyson era was a joke in itself, he was a one punch fighter, look at all his fights from the beginning to the end.....if he couldnt knock you out in the first couple rounds, he panicked...dont let his boxing influence the sport itself....look at the ali's foremans, fraziers, and lewis....Lennox Lewis is perhaps the greatest this sport has ever seen and it is too bad he retired.....
As for MMA, the iceman rules..... cant wait to see Chuck fight in a couple months again..... | |
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| its amazing to me, the things that i see
Posted: 1/15/2006 8:27:34 PM | Interesting post Sayan.
I am probably a creepy and obsessed Fedor fan, but nevertheless I do believe that for the time being he will be THE standard by which all other MMA heavyweights will be measured for the forseeable future. I suppose a comparison to Tyson may be premature, but I believe that the comparison will stand the test of time. Of course I would love for an even better fighter to come along but... only time will tell.
As for Fedor opening up markets and making the sport more mainstream, you have to remember that in Japan where Fedor fights MMA is already mainstream. Also, unlike the Gracies he is a Fighter, not a promoter/teacher.
Sayan I am surprised that you would say that you are looking to some underground fights in Montreal as somewhere where you will see "flawless application of technique", especially as compared to Pride. Keep us informed if you find it.
PS, are you looking into a KOTC shot? Cool. | |
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| older UFC fighters
Posted: 1/16/2006 8:43:24 PM | | I just don't see Royce being able to hang with Matt Hughes. When the UFC announced that there was going to be a big announcement tonight, I saw people speculating that they were going to bring the lightweight division back. I would have much preferred that over Royce vs Matt. | |
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| older UFC fighters
Posted: 1/16/2006 9:33:15 PM | Heh. A guy on another board joked Royce v Frank Shamrock. If he was going to be half right, I'd've liked the other half. A Lightweight division would be sweet but I was hoping they would announce that they were switching to a ring instead of the cage. Guess that won't happen until Couture and Liddell retire, if ever. I'll admit that seeing Royce was quite the holy shit moment, but I agree AA. I can't see him lasting a round against the threshing machine that is Matt Hughes.
Beyond that, some pretty good fights. The main was kind of boring, but that's UFC heavies for you. I didn't see anything that indicated Sylvia has a better chance in the rematch, but Assuerio is just as slow and a lot shorter.
Bonnar's kimura was just sick. So much so that I think the refs should consider languishing in a submission you can't escape from 'not intelligently defending yourself'. It was pretty clear that Irvin was going nowhere, and that should have been stopped sooner. Dude.
With all the talk there's been about Leben's power, it's nice to see him finally knock someone down. Call it a guilty pleasure, but I like the guy. He's a loudmouth, but he likes to fight and he doesn't mind getting hit. I'm so sick of guys ducking and running as soon as someone throws something.
EDIT: Hunh. I just did some checking. Apparently those fights happened, and another besides. Boo-urns. That's a pretty crappy violence to promo ratio for them to not be airing fights. Feckers.
I thought Karalexis/Von Flue and Guillard/Neer were on the card too, but I guess I was wrong. I can't see them running short on time with four 1st round stoppages, one of which 11 seconds in. Damn, but Ludwig has some hands. Even if I think Genki should have won that decision. | |
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| older UFC fighters
Posted: 1/17/2006 7:53:21 AM | Holy Cripes PV... that was a pretty damn good breakdown of recent Pride events...at least the ones Ive seen that you have mentioned. And Bas is a wicked commentator.. I love his enthusiasm. Liddel and Couture, in comparason, just dont seem as fun to watch and listen to when they are commentating.
And again... I just dont see many similarities between Iron Mike and Fedor..on many grounds. Maybe as the top heavyweight guy to beat in their respective ..sport. Thats about it.
As for Matt Hughes... I guess it depends which Gracie we are comparing him too. Hughes is GOOD... his main attribute is his heart and never-say-tapout attitude. Skill level-wise... hes ok. But just ok, not great.
As for me... Im thinkin hard about the King of the Cage thats held here in Canada -any one seen it? Since.. Im not allowed to travel to many places outside of here, and UFC calibre fighters compete. I wanna do this.... mostly... as a testament to illustrate what Ive been spouting off about. You know... put up or shut up. My FIRST instructor (who reitred as a pro wrestling champ) really wants to throw me into a few high calibre events- hes always loved to see me go, and he figures it will be a way to FORCE me to... learn how to control my kill switch, and if I cant... I face disqualification, and not necessarily a trip to the crowbar Hilton, like I would on the street. And thats a main reason why Im thinkin about the Montreal underground scene as well... f*ck the money (any I win Im donating to World Vision) I just wanna fight and pound the snot outta someone quick fast and efficiently (and maybe have someone pound the snot outta me a bit too) and not wind up in jail again for once.
Im just not sure.. if my hands will be healed enough.
Ill be sure to keep you posted as best I can... in one way or the other Im training every day, and living with all kinda pain in the process.. and loving it. Screw all other sports... martial arts is the best best best, and I love it. And thats why I... need to scrap.
and..oh yeah.. what ever DID happen to Frank Shamrock? I kinda liked him beter than his brother....
we def need to see more lightweights | |
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| older UFC fighters
Posted: 1/17/2006 3:48:47 PM | What, from last page? Cool. Thanks. Commentary-wise, I don't know that I've ever heard Liddell or Couture call an actual match. Judging from TUF1 though, I'd say Chuck at least wouldn't set the world on fire as a commentator. There's nobody out there who can go mic to mic with Bas though.
Hughes/Royce: I dunno. Royce is a wild card. Nobody knows what he's been doing recently, but his greatest strenth was always that nobody else knew his game. I don't see him being able to take Matt down, and I see Matt powering out of submission attempts with his freakish, corn fed strength. If Royce gets something almost locked in and decides to sit and wait it out like he always has, Hughes is as likely as not to stand up and dump him on his head. I think this is one more example of the current fad of throwing washed up guys to the wolves in order to build up the current crop. Franklin/Shamrock, Griffen/Tito, Hughes/Gracie.
As for Frank Shamrock, Last I saw of him was in a superfight on a K-1 card a few years back. He broke some poor **stards arm with a high kick in less than a minute, and then consoled him afterwards. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/19/2006 12:22:28 PM | Tito is great to watch. I was sort of choked about him losing to Chuck via eye gouge. If you watch the fight you see Chuck punch him in the eye, Tito can't see and is trying to adjust his contact or something, then Chuck wastes him while he's blind. Chuck seems to usually win via eye gouge though, Horn, Couture, etc...
Who wins between Tito and Forest in May? I have a hard time seeing Forest win, but I don't put it past him. I think if Tito wins that then he gets Ken, and after that he gets the winner of Couture / Lidell 3.
Hughs / Royce = Hughs all of the way I think. Royce will only win if Hughs blunders the way he did again Penn when he left his neck open going for the knee bar. I think Hughs will come out wanting to spawl and brawl. Royce will have an easy time achieving an upper body greco clinch. He seems to be one of the few BJJ guys that has good greco skills. Once he gets in the clinch I think he will take Hughs down via sacrifice. He may try the same flying armbar he did way back in UFC 2. Once he gets Hughs down though, he will be on his back and I dont see him having much of a chance except he could pull off a triangle. I think most of his offence will be going for the triangle. He's not going to armbar Hughs without a really great setup, and his favorite weapon, the forwards choke, is not there because he won't have a gi. Hughs will never submit Royce, so I predict Royce loses a decision unanimously and eats up a ton of punishment. I think Hughs will come out unscathed.
Fedor - yes, he will be the standard for a long time, but I don't think he really stands alone. I think with him, Crocop, and Noguera, you have the three archetypes for the fighters of the future.
Chuck / Randy 3 - all depends if Randy can avoid the eye gouge. If he can see he will win. I think he will come out with a really innovative gameplan, and Chuck will just go out doing what he always does.
BJ Penn vs GSP = fight of the year. I can't wait for this fight, and I don't see any fight Pride could offer that would excite me nearly as much. In fact, the whole UFC 57 card is looking really great. Loisou vs Franklin should be interesting, but I cant see the Crow winning, maybe. He has an elbowers chance :) The card is shaping up as Canada vs USA and it should really get emotions going.
Arlovski vs Syvia in May, only interesting thing about this is it will be in California. Yea for the expansion of MMA! I think Sylvia should just be a gate keeper. His job should be to clean up the trash like Bunatello and Eliers.
As for Leban, I was totally impressed. I thought the stoppage was a little premature, but I thought Riveria would win. He beat up the Crow before and that really impressed me. Maybe after Crow / Franklin we will get to see Crow vs Leban. That would be great. The heavy puncher vs the elbows from hell.
Overall, the UFC's willingness to open the purse strings and sign up top fighters lately has really impressed me.
Fighters I think they need to sign:
Matt Lindland - Franklins title is a joke till he fights him
Ricco Rodregez - The heavy weight div sucks and he would be an instant contender. He beat Arlovski already, and he'd have a great fight with Mir.
Heath Herring - He's not fighting for pride and training in Vegas. Sign him up. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/19/2006 4:44:16 PM | I don't feel bad for Tito at all. After all, he'd spent the previous two years or so ducking Liddell. What the hell kind of champ is that?
I'm picking Forrest over Tito. Ortiz needs the strength advantage to win. He traditionally does best against natural 205ers, not guys who cut down like Griffen does.
I don't see Hughes/Gracie going to the ground unless Matt decides he wants it there. He'll easily be the best wrestler Royce ever set himself against, and is strong like a freak to boot.
I'm thinking Randy for the rubber match as well, unless he's suddenly gotten old over the last month. He's just a smarter fighter.
GSP/Penn is a match of the year candidate on paper. Unless something weird happens it's got my vot for most likely to set the world afire.
Sylvia should be a gatekeeper. Unfortunately, he's the best HW the promotion can field that ain't AA himself at the moment. Here's hoping Mir comes back healthy and soon.
I think Franklin would dismantle Leben about as quickly as he did Quarry. Chris L. needs to work his way up slowly, I think.
I'd definitely love to see Lindland return, but Dana White has a hate on for his style, so I don't know if it'll ever happen. Ricco tips the scales at 330 now, and seems pretty washed up to me. Heath is a good idea. I don't think he can take the Pitbull, but there'd be some interesting fights for him on the way up. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/19/2006 10:49:35 PM | Ya I just saw a pic of Ricco today and I can't believe how big he got. People on the underground are joking about signing him up for The Biggest Loser.
I agree that Leban would get smoked by Franklin, but I think the Crow would be a good match for him. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/19/2006 11:05:37 PM |
I agree that Leban would get smoked by Franklin, but I think the Crow would be a good match for him.
How 'bout that. I misread. Yeah, there's a good match there. Of course, If Florian can bust Leben open, The crow shouldn't have much trouble with his ginsumatic elbows. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/20/2006 10:42:09 AM | | How about Bang vs Sanchez at 170? What would you think of that one? | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/20/2006 11:08:26 AM | Wake me up when this UFC talk is over. I'm gonna nap in the meantime.
OT: Royce by guillitine choke | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/20/2006 3:20:24 PM | | Man i here alot of smack it this room... Saiyan i dont have to tell you already you should know its not the fight in the dog its the fight in the man. Talkers only walk the walk so just ignore their shit. Ive been training alone now for any chance to fight in the ufc for about 5yrs. If anyone can tell me how to further my attempt to have such a career i would be very thankfull. Im looking for trainers and a shot. Thanks yall...George from VA | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/20/2006 5:26:12 PM |
what ever DID happen to Frank Shamrock? I kinda liked him beter than his brother....
Him and Ceaser Gracie keep trying to set up a fight together and it keeps falling though. It's supposed to happen again this year, but I will believe it when I see it.
It sounds like Frank will never fight in the UFC or Pride again, but who knows now that they got Royce back. Frank kept asking Pride for too much money and he seems to not get along at all with the UFC.
He started his own fight league a few years ago I think, but I don't think it got very far. His innovation was to have the fighters fight in a plexiglass box, removing the problem of fighters grabbing fencing and all the issues with rings. Apparent it is not catching on... | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:08:27 PM |  I have to say sayan i applaued you to an extent. or maybe im not see the hole picture. Alittle about me ive been a police officer for 10yrs now. Ive been training in kick boxing. Ive trained in submission holds from way back in my middle school grades. My ultimate dream would be to fight in the UFC. However its not for money,fame or a piece of ass like some of these other so called fighters. I want to fight for my pride and self achevements to know i can stand with some of the greats weather i tap or get knocked out or even defeat them. But my dream is slowly comming to an end. Im already 34yrs old i train alone and i dont know anyone in the sport or any trainers. Where i live there arent to many true instructors. (another person i would like to scrap with is John Cena LOL) Anyway thats alittle about me. I do believe in what you say when it comes to fighting and that is fighting to servive. As a cop in my city we arent liked to much. (no kidden right) In the streets when it comes to me or the other person going home alive you better dam believe i will do what i have to to see my kid in the morning. But it seems to me that when you talk about it in your statements that you are sent to hurt someone. I thought that in most training you are tought self control. Maybe im not understading you or maybe its the fact that self control is just a statement that instructors want parents to hear. I also like your statement on the hole gun issue and your right when it comes to a fight. Dont get me wrong i think you have the right intenstions and very well self tought and intellagent when knowing the facts. I just had to responed in case i am miss understanding where you are comming from maybe you can explain....Take care George from VA | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/21/2006 7:58:48 PM |
How about Bang vs Sanchez at 170? What would you think of that one?
Ooh. That's a good'un. Has that been signed? Let's see. Gives the term 'a puncher's chance' a whole new world of meaning. I might just have to go with Ludwig on that one. Sanchez will score takedowns, but if Genki couldn't finish Bang, Diego's probably not up to it either. Ludwig is a gangly guy, and he seems well able to contain someone from the bottom until the stand up comes a knockin'. Not my favorite tactic, but it works.
Now the ref might leave things lying a bit longer than is the norm if Diego's on top, and the judges might view him favorably as well, reality TV star that he is. So Bang's best hope would be to weather the storm, let Diego get a bit tired so his hands start dropping, then start throwing in earnest in the second and third. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/22/2006 9:27:06 PM |
Ooh. That's a good'un. Has that been signed?
No, that's just something I'd like to see. Sanchez is fighting soon, but it's against someone else. I can't remember who, but I don't think I really recognized the name. | |
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| UFC and Mix Martial Arts
Posted: 1/23/2006 7:42:57 AM | Sounds like... theres a lot of speculation about the next few match ups... guess we will see soon enough what happens...
Personallly... Im tired of Tito Ortiz and wouldnt care less if i never saw him fight again. I Do like PV's positioning about the current trend of throwing old long-in-the-tooth wolves to the younger crop, but I guess it does allow first generation fans to embrace the newer fighters, and gives the newer fans a glimpse of the guys who got MMA into the present mainstream- Huges/gracie is a prime example. Likewise said, who knows what Royce has been doing... maybe hes been working on his strength and stand-up fighting... who knows...
If I was a bettin man, Id still pick Royce... experience can overcome youthful strength. But, like I said.. we will see...
As for Frank Shamrock.. I hope he can find a match in either Pride or UFC... I enjoyed many of his fights- fast and descisive. As for fighting in a plexiglass box... weird, but that would be kinda cool...
Id like to see one set up in a bar!!
Ideally Id prefer a dirt pit or a steel- barred cage... and, if we added handcuffs and shackles...thats when Id be putting my money on Iron Mike over most MMA guys!
(and to George the cop from VA, try adding that to your training... although Im sure you wouldnt need to know how to fight like that... like I would! As for the size/dog in a fight thing... I already acknowledged that certainty in some forum some time before, and I totally agree.. however, in keepin with the FORUM... we all know that size..irrelevance only holds true to a certain extent, and thats why we have... WEIGHT CLASSES)
So... it seems that we all agrere on one thing: Fedor-superiority in his weight class. Who can beat him? Who will?
and if we could have an over 200lb contest of the top...TEN MMA guys... who would they be?
Id like to hear your pics especially PV...
and yardape..dont expect to wake up anytime soon.. the forum IS UFC ...and MMA, so its inevidable that we will be talkin about it! | |
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