|
|
|
|
|
| |
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 1:53:05 PM | So the "Use of Military Force Against Iraq" is not declaring War??"
Longte......No
"It's nice that President Bush is looking at all the military options. But where is it written that one man, the president, gets to decide whether the United States goes to war with Iraq? Not in the Constitution, certainly. The Constitution gives the war power to Congress." | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:04:51 PM | "If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck"
If Saddam walks like he has WMD's, swims like he has WMD's, and quacks like he has WMD's, he probably has WMD's....... "
So tell us, certified, why DO you keep banging your head against a brick wall? I'd be willing to bet that your head would get through the brick wall before the truth got through your head. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:05:24 PM | Certified...
While your retort to the "duck" was funny, and hard to disagree with (i.e. Saddam and his weapons) you have still failed to address the label of "war" vs. "engagement". You are straw-manning the argument by not addressing the issue that has been debated. We are not questioning, how, by law the US declares war; we are questioning what your would call Vientam, Korea, Desert Storm, and Operation Iraqi Freedom. If you do not want to label these events with the word 'war', how would you choose to describe them.
Also, it may have been overlooked, but under international law, a war was declared. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:12:49 PM | So tell us, certified, why DO you keep banging your head against a brick wall? I'd be willing to bet that your head would get through the brick wall before the truth got through your head."
grog......if you don't mind I'll borrow the answer from someone's posts .....
"It is silly to argue with an idiot who thinks everything they say is right..." | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:33:02 PM | This is what I've been trying to tell you!
At last! A breakthough!! | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 2:59:08 PM | Certified,
I was hoping you might address the previous post that I wrote.
I have noticed that neither you, nor Foxfire has offered us with a definition of what constitutes 'war'.
Now, in an effort to prevent a red herring response...I am NOT asking how does the USA go to war / declare war / enter a war/ etc...I am asking for you to define 'war'. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 3:10:30 PM |
Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs.
Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs. I'm trying to make sense of this. Let's see, let me repeat it again, 'Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs.' Nope still nothing. I'll try it again, 'Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs.' Sorry this means nothing.
I have noticed that neither you, nor Foxfire has offered us with a definition of what constitutes 'war'.
The same one in the dictionary. Look it up. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 3:17:06 PM | Foxfire...
It would seem to me that you should have looked at the definition prior to arguing that the USA was not at war.
The dictionary definition of war I used was taken from www.dictionary.com, the direct link is below:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=War
A state of open, armed, often prolonged conflict carried on between nations, states, or parties.
I would suggest that Vietnam, Korea, Desert Storm, and Operation Iraqi Freedom satisfy this dictionary definition. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 3:50:15 PM | | Yes the goings on fit the definations of a war. But offically there was never any declaration of war. I didn't make this up. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:02:51 PM | Executive Order: Establishing the Afghanistan and Iraq Campaign Medals (http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2004/11/20041129-11.html)
Sec. 3. Relationship to Other Awards. Notwithstanding section 1 of Executive Order 13289 of March 12, 2003, establishing the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal, any member who qualified for that medal by reason of service in Afghanistan between October 24, 2001, and a terminal date to be determined by the Secretary of Defense, or in Iraq between March 19, 2003, and a terminal date to be determined by the Secretary of Defense, shall remain qualified for that medal. Upon application, a member by reason of service may be awarded either the Afghanistan Campaign Medal or the Iraq Campaign Medal in lieu of the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal. A member may be awarded either the Afghanistan Campaign Medal or the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal by reason of service in Afghanistan. A member may be awarded either the Iraq Campaign Medal or the Global War on Terrorism Expeditionary Medal by reason of service in Iraq. No member shall be entitled to the award of more than one of these three medals for the same period of service.
“Iraq [is] the central front in the war on terror.” – President Bush's UN speech, 9/23/03
"The terrorists and their supporters declared war on the United States - and war is what they got." - George W. Bush
Peace  | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:10:18 PM | Hahaha nice try open.
Still there was no formal declaration of war declared against Iraq. There's a reason for that too. I'll let you guys figure it out. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:23:39 PM | Lets have a look at your opinions...and see what they tell us...
"Actually it's not a war it was an invasion to remove Saddam from power. The US never declared war on Iraq."
In this quote you say three things:
1. It's not a war.
2. It's an invasion.
3. The U.S. never declared war on Iraq.
"War on terror yes. War declared against Iraq. When did Bush declare war against Iraq?"
In this quote you say two things of interest (well you say one, and imply the other):
1. It is a war on terror.
2. The U.S. never declared war on Iraq.
"Yes the goings on fit the definations of a war. But offically there was never any declaration of war. I didn't make this up."
This one is interesting, you say two things
1. It fits the definition of a war.
2. The U.S. never declared war on Iraq.
"Still there was no formal declaration of war declared against Iraq. There's a reason for that too."
One thing of interest:
1. The U.S. never declared war on Iraq.
SO.......
I will give you credit where it is due, through the debate on this subject you have been consistent with your claim that the U.S. never legally declared war on Iraq. I agree with you 100%; however, you should qualify that statement to read that the U.S. never declared war on Iraq as according to their own constitution. As per international law, there is a strong argument that the U.S. did indeed declare war.
However, let's take a look at the rest of your content to see if you flip/flopped on the issue:
You start with: It's not a war.
You move to: It is a war on terror.
You end with: It fits the definition of a war.
So I will ask you to clarify your answer to this simple question - Is this a war?
| |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:24:49 PM | "Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs. I'm trying to make sense of this. Let's see, let me repeat it again, 'Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs.' Nope still nothing. I'll try it again, 'Saddam repeatedly told anyone who would listen he had no WMDs.' Sorry this means nothing."
We assume (perhaps foolishly) that you have a point?
"I have noticed that neither you, nor Foxfire has offered us with a definition of what constitutes 'war'."
....and we're STILL waiting......... | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:45:21 PM | "Actually it's not a war it was an invasion to remove Saddam from power. The US never declared war on Iraq."
What I should have said is 'Actually it's not officially a war'. Originally there was no war delcared. This is what I failed to explain.
So I will ask you to clarify your answer to this simple question - Is this a war?
Brain Yes there is a war going on in Iraq. In the beginning if you recall Bush asked Congress for the ok to use military force if needed to remove Saddam from power. But he didn't declare war on Iraq.
Non-war wars
In democratic nations, a Declaration of War customarily has to be passed by the legislature.
After the Second World War, it became convenient for many democratic governments, most notably that of the United States, to declare that their wars were not in fact wars, but something else, such as a "military action" or "armed response."
In particular, not declaring war provided a way to circumvent constitutional safeguards against the executive declaring war, and also, in some cases, to avoid feeling bound by the established laws of war. Not using the word "war" is also seen as being more public relations-friendly. For these reasons, they have generally ceased to issue declarations of war, instead describing their actions by euphemisms such as "police action" or "authorized use of force."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Declaration_of_war | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 4:59:37 PM | Did you notice that you still did not answer the question I posed...
Is this a war?
Also, you quote from Wikipedia (by the way, I like that you use the quote function for outside sources, it is good for clarity) implies something very interesting, I will explain.
"In particular, not declaring war provided a way to circumvent constitutional safeguards against the executive declaring war, and also, in some cases, to avoid feeling bound by the established laws of war."
In particular the part about avoiding feeling bound by the established laws of war. I can only imagine why Bush would enjoy this aspect of not declaring. | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 5:12:35 PM | Did you notice that you still did not answer the question I posed...
Is this a war?
Did you notice I did?
Brain Yes there is a war going on in Iraq.
Why are you milking this to death? Yes there is a war going on in Iraq, What more do you want me to say? Is there a certain answer your looking for. You take an initial response from me and turn it into a federal case. Let's just agree to disagree because it's obvious I can't get thru. And I don't think I ever could. I'm not sure what your argument is.
It is a war yes was war ever offically delared no. | |
|
| |
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 8:01:06 PM |
So tell us, certified, why DO you keep banging your head against a brick wall? I'd be willing to bet that your head would get through the brick wall before the truth got through your head.
he is not banging his head! he is stating FACT! | |
|
| Are you against the War? Simce Bush is a Saint??
Posted: 1/13/2006 8:32:37 PM | Here's a thought about this little dance here on this thread... (its a joke actually)....
"bush was scheduled to visit a methodist church outside washington, d.c. as part of his campaign to appear to be a good christian. one of his aides made a visit to the bishop and said to him, "we've been getting a lot of bad publicity among methodists because of bush's position on stem cell research and the like. we'd
gladly make a contribution of $100,000 to your church if during your sermon you will say the president is a saint."
the bishop thinks it over for a few moments and finally says, "our church is in such desperate need of funds that i will agree to do it."
bush shows up looking especially pompous and smug, and the bishop begins his homily:
george bush is a petty, self-absorbed hypocrite and a nitwit. he is a liar, a cheat, and a low-intelligence weasel. he has lied about his military record, and had the gall to put himself in a jet plane landing on a carrier, posing before a banner stating 'mission accomplished.' he invaded a country for oil and money, and is lying to the american people about how things are going over there. he is the worst example of a methodist i've ever personally known. but compared to****cheney and the rest of his cabinet, george bush is a saint."... | |
|
| |
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 8:48:01 PM | he is not banging his head! he is stating FACT!
It is not.
Prime Minister Tony Blair in his statement to the House of Commons on 25 February 2003, said: "It was only four years later after the defection of Saddam's son-in-law to Jordan, that the offensive biological weapons and the full extent of the nuclear programme were discovered."
President Bush declared in a 7 October 2002 speech: "In 1995, after several years of deceit by the Iraqi regime, the head of Iraq's military industries defected. It was then that the regime was forced to admit that it had produced more than 30,000 liters of anthrax and other deadly biological agents. The inspectors, however, concluded that Iraq had likely produced two to four times that amount. This is a massive stockpile of biological weapons that has never been accounted for, and capable of killing millions."
Colin Powell's 5 February 2003 presentation to the UN Security Council claimed: "It took years for Iraq to finally admit that it had produced four tons of the deadly nerve agent, VX. A single drop of VX on the skin will kill in minutes. Four tons. The admission only came out after inspectors collected documentation as a result of the defection of Hussein Kamal, Saddam Hussein's late son-in-law."
In a speech on 26 August 2002, Vice-President****Cheney said Kamel's story "should serve as a reminder to all that we often learned more as the result of defections than we learned from the inspection regime itself".
Hussein Kamel: "I ordered destruction of all chemical weapons. All weapons - biological, chemical, missile, nuclear were destroyed"
A lot of their numbers are based on this guy's testimony...but they continuously left out that very important statement, of his. FACT.
Peace | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 9:06:56 PM | | When I read "when we were soliders and young" I remeber a part we're it's says that a war in the US it when the Reg force Army moves in to armed conflict? I can't seem to find the box in the pile so I ask you Americans is this true? | |
|
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 9:22:21 PM | Declare
1 : to make known formally, officially, or explicitly
2 obsolete : to make clear
3 : to make evident : SHOW
4 : to state emphatically : AFFIRM
Bush has declared the US is in a war...numerous times in speeches, and in that executive order, above. He's also declared that other military actions, were wars.
"They were acts of war."
"But we will not allow this enemy to win the war by changing our way of life or restricting our freedoms."
"Our war on terror begins with al-Qaida, but it does not end there."
"We will direct every resource at our command - every means of diplomacy, every tool of intelligence, every instrument of law enforcement, every financial influence and every necessary weapon of war - to the destruction and to the defeat of the global terror network."
"Now this war will not be like the war against Iraq a decade ago, with a decisive liberation of territory and a swift conclusion. It will not look like the air war above Kosovo two years ago, where no ground troops were used and not a single American was lost in combat."
"The battle of Iraq is one victory in a war on terror that began on September 11th, 2001, and still goes on,"
"Like the fall of the Berlin Wall and the defeat of totalitarianism in Central and Eastern Europe, freedom will triumph in this war against terrorism."
"They are an indispensable part of our Nation's efforts to promote democracy, peace, and freedom, and, in the wake of the September 11 attacks, National Guard and Reserve units are deploying to help fight and win the war against terrorism."
"Employers? willing-ness to sacrifice and bear the inevitable financial hardships and organizational disruptions that result are important contri-butions to our Nation's war against terrorism."
"Now, in the painful aftermath of the September 11 attacks and in the midst of our resolute war on terrorism, President Eisenhower's hopeful words point us to our collective obligation to defend the enduring principles of freedom that form the foundation of our Republic."
"The heinous acts of terrorism committed on September 11 were an attack against civilization itself, and they have caused the world to join together in a coalition that is now waging war on terrorism and defending international human rights."
President Addresses Veterans of Foreign Wars on the War on Terror (http://www.whitehouse.gov/infocus/iraq/) <<< The White House is declaring, that it's in a war.
The Department of Defense, is declaring that it's in a war. (http://www.defendamerica.mil/)
Public Law 107-39 107th Congress (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/pl107-39.htm) <<< The Senate and Congress, have declared that the US is in a war.
(6) thanks those foreign leaders and individuals who have expressed solidarity with the United States in the aftermath of the attacks, and asks them to continue to stand with the United States in the war against international terrorism;
(7) commits to support increased resources in the war to eradicate terrorism;
Statement of Senator Russ Feingold On War Powers (http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/sept_11/feingold_001.htm)
At the same time, we must recognize that this war will be unlike any other we have fought in the past.
The CIA, is declaring it's in a war. (http://www.cia.gov/terrorism/)
The FBI, is declaring it's in a war. (http://www.fbi.gov/terrorinfo/counterrorism/waronterrorhome.htm)
Every relevant section of the US government, has declared they are in a war.
Peace | |
|
longte
|
Joined: 10/18/2004
Msg: 1300 | |
| Are you against the War?
Posted: 1/13/2006 9:31:48 PM | How many pages of discussion do we need on this
Kids are dying
While we write about clarification of a word
Kids are dying
That is what we should be addressing
That is what we should try to stop as quickly, but still as morally responsibly as we can
Everyone here should realise that while Kids Die, we argue over clarification
I personally cannot see that as good thing
..
. | |
|
|
| Page 52 of 54
|
14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37, 38, 39, 40, 41, 42, 43, 44, 45, 46, 47, 48, 49, 50, 51, 52, 53, 54 |
|
Home
login 
