NateC
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Joined: 4/10/2006
Msg: 251 | |
| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 3/3/2008 2:05:27 PM | The latter, but you obviously don't spank a 13 year old. You really should only spank until they're old enough to be reasoned with (which isn't exactly subjective; 9 is probably about the right age), and the the older they get, the more you should restrain.
I can't even remember how old I was when my dad stopped spanking, that's how young I was. I think I was 6 or 7, to be honest. My mom's a different story but she wasn't exactly the best parent.
IMO, grounding doesn't work well either. Especially when kids generally have all their toys in their room.
as someone else mentioned, it's all case by case. You can pigeonhole one way or the other, but the fact of the matter is, the truth lies in the middle, not on one side or the other - just like any other "dilemma". | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/13/2008 10:59:03 PM | There is no middle ground when it comes to the rightness or wrongness of hitting a spouse or any other human being, not even slapping them! So keeping it as a practise to honour "middle ground" with children is a cop out.
Sometimes, when it comes to safety and wellness for all humans the best way is only on one side! The best, most effective way is not just a matter of the personal preference (based on limited experience, education and expertise regarding childcare) that most parents unknowingly perpetuate by not modernizing their approach. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 4:45:06 AM | | In my opinion raising a hand to an innocent child IS child abuse. My sibs and I were NEVER spanked or hit by our parents. If we were naughty privileges were taken away or we were send to our room or grounded. Spanking promotes violence and teaches children it's okay to be violent towards others. I am currently raising my niece (my sister is in hospital undergoing cancer treatment) and when she doesn't behave I do what my parents did, send her to her room, ground her or take privileges away (my sister raises her the same way). It's very effective. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 6:35:06 AM | Great to hear your comment Imissblueeyes. And... Thank you for stepping up to the plate with your niece!
I bet you didnt hesitate to care for her for sis but many wouldnt do it, surprising as that may sound to some! SO I just wanted you to know how much I appreciate what you are doing and THAT you are doing it!
All the best for your sisters speedy recovery. How wonderful for her that care for her precious one,during this time, is not something she will have to give a moments worry about! | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 6:40:02 AM | Wow....
With all the political correctness going around... and all the soccer moms running to the rescue of little johnny and june....
Columbine happens..... Gonna just take thier guns away, and send them to their rooms??? | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 10:45:19 AM |
Smuggler, sad situations like Columbine happen because parents don't do their jobs as parents properly.
I couldnt agree more. Not argueing that point at all... But it seems to me, and no... I dont have some piece of paper that says Im an expert... there is an entire generation of people who were raised by parents that didnt, spare the rod/spoil the child. How many people remember, "Go cut me a switch"....
But now we have an entire generation of young people, who are listening to the so called "experts" in child raising.... and we're getting a bunch of wild, out of control, ankle biting, cookie grabbing rug rats!... who grow up to be confused adolesents who have no way of discerning the difference between Rights, Responsibilities and Priveleges.
Suddenly, Priveleges have become Rights... and Responsibilities take a back seat... And the Rights are being stripped away by the government... and everyone thinks this is acceptable???
I say bring back that 2 inch belt. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:23:21 AM | Smuggler,I have no paper either Just thirty years of hard won experience on both sides of the fence with many children(including my own and others)of many cultures. I doubt anyone here who opposes hitting children has a piece of paper.
And even if I/they did it speaks volumes to me that you would disqualify someone who cares enough to dedicate four plus years researching, including with real life children, in order to find the best methods to support and promote happy productive and capable adults. The hellions you keep using as an arguement are not the majority and unlikely to have been parented much at all. They are just the ones you hear the most about. The good kids are too busy going to music lessons their mum cleaned houses for and getting on the honour roll, participating in sports, volunteering in the community! I meet dozens weekly.
Bads news gets the press just because there is plenty of audience happy to have their big generalizing negative brush reloaded with the latest maniac kid story.
I think you are lapsing into holding children who have little or no parenting up as examples because both parents are working(and not always because they have to!) and buy off their kids, often losing their backbone due to guilt over their absence ,as an example of all kids., That is just as adult and rational as hitting and works poorly in the long run.
And for someone who calls for no all or nothings saying EVERYONE thinks this is acceptable is a complete contradiction of that. Children learn more by the example of their closest parent/guardian than any licking for wrongdoing will ever accomplish. They are big copy cats of actions and values and that is where attention to improvement by parents is sadly lacking.
So lets leave it at :there is room for improvement by everyone!
And choosing a stand by personally trying other methods for the long haul rather than recounting stories about "everyone elses kids " as the ultimate argument really IS worth supporting.
Just as I remember "go cut me a switch"
SO too do I remember the US theory which went something like "lynch that boy because I can!"
Just because it was common practise way back when, or even yesterday, doesnt automatically make it a good choice now.
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 11:46:22 AM | | I used to be a spanker. All it did was make my son angrier in general. I have stopped spanking and have gone to time outs and privileges taken away. It's working a helluva lot better. He's a lot more responsive to those kinds of punishments and is happier and calmer in general. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/14/2008 12:19:18 PM |
Just as I remember "go cut me a switch"
SO too do I remember the US theory which went something like "lynch that boy because I can!"
Just because it was common practise way back when, or even yesterday, doesnt automatically make it a good choice now.
Hmmmm Wow.. Im really not sure how you can make the justification, or the LEAP... from corporal punishment... to lynching. (Nice how you put the US part in there... )
And isnt it fascinating how our parents, utilizing the theory of.... "spare the rod/spoil the child" are still shocked at thier grandkids and what they do.
You can argue it as you see fit. 30+ years or not. Maybe some of those "old ways" worked a hell of a lot better than the "new and improved" ways. Recent historical events would pretty much prove that. I dont remember reading anything about a columbine type shooting in the 30's, 40's, 50's or 60's.....
Much like many of the posters in the begining of this thread have stated. I got the belt... and my fair share of smacks on the rump. NOT ONCE have I ever thought of taking a gun out and killing people.... I never acted up in public... much like the teens we have of today. You want to blame it on parents not being parents... I couldnt agree more. But part of that Parental Responsibility... (Oh, thats right... got right back to my statement about Rights, Responsibilities and Priveleges.... ) is raising that kidlet to be a responsible/respectable adult. Telling little johnny that its "time out" doesnt really amount to much, he sucks it up, then moves on... then continues the same behavior.... I believe spanking would be considered as, A Significant Emotional Event. As its been proven, we as humans often times DONT alter our behavior unless a S.E.E. occurs...
So yeah, I dont necessarily agree that 4 years of research and study in a controlled environment is going to make up for much. If you really research... Things started falling apart when people started listening to the self proclaimed expert, Dr. Spock.
Your grandparents Im sure spanked... My dad when he was alive spanked... then my uncle spanked... never, not once did I ever consider that I was "abused" or anything else Im sure you're going to throw into this mix.... | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 8/17/2008 12:32:36 PM | ...I think if you look at the past history of a criminal MOST of them were belted as a child. The problem with spanking a child is that parents get into the habit of spanking, and when it begins to have no effect the spankings become harsher. Teaching a child violence is wrong. Most children learn from their parents, and if beatings are the go at home, then they will carry it through to adulthood.
Really you have evidence that most crimmals were spanked? Spankig is different then violence if you can not seperate them then that is your problem. There has never been a study that has shown that spanking teaches kids violence. That is just something people who are against spanking made up. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 8/17/2008 6:48:50 PM | Being a parent isn't easy and it doesn't come automatically.
It is the job of a parent to raise their child or children to become responsible adults who can lead happy and productive lives independent of yours. Among the many things required to accomplish this task is teaching your child respect; for you, for others and for themselves. This process begins the first time you say no. As this element of your relationship with your child develops with time it becomes somewhat like a dance where the steps each takes are predictable. Spanking is one tool of many that can be included in teaching your child about the word no. It is an effective tool that may or may not be included within the communicative rapport you develop with your child. People in general tend to yell, holler, curse, scream and hit when words or reason fail and sometimes words do fail regardless of how evolved a person thinks they are. I disagree that teaching your child about violence is wrong because violence exists in the world and if your child is unprepared for it then you've excluded a part of reality that could cost your child his or her life. As well if you rely too heavily on spanking then you exclude reason, compassion, understanding and love. The most important element in raising children is the relationship you develop with them and your role in that relationship is to be the one who is the responsible authority until the time comes when your task is completed. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 8/18/2008 8:27:19 AM |
Being a parent isn't easy and it doesn't come automatically.
It is the job of a parent to raise their child or children to become responsible adults who can lead happy and productive lives independent of yours. Among the many things required to accomplish this task is teaching your child respect; for you, for others and for themselves. This process begins the first time you say no. As this element of your relationship with your child develops with time it becomes somewhat like a dance where the steps each takes are predictable. Spanking is one tool of many that can be included in teaching your child about the word no. It is an effective tool that may or may not be included within the communicative rapport you develop with your child. People in general tend to yell, holler, curse, scream and hit when words or reason fail and sometimes words do fail regardless of how evolved a person thinks they are. I disagree that teaching your child about violence is wrong because violence exists in the world and if your child is unprepared for it then you've excluded a part of reality that could cost your child his or her life. As well if you rely too heavily on spanking then you exclude reason, compassion, understanding and love. The most important element in raising children is the relationship you develop with them and your role in that relationship is to be the one who is the responsible authority until the time comes when your task is completed.
Well said, as with everything in Life, there is a balance. Where it seems we as a society have gone wrong, and yes, we're headed down the wrong path, is when we start to elevate "children" over everything.
We cant tell them they are failing, because it will hurt thier self esteem... we cant raise the bar because we dont want them to stumble...
WTF??? We are raising an entire generation of whiners and titty babies who's mothers dont want to cut the damn apron strings.
Everything is a balance... | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 9/20/2008 11:44:31 PM | That old saying in the bible, SPARE THE ROD SPOIL THE CHILD, is there for a reason. You don't need to beat your children, but spank your children.
I was spanked only once in my life and believe me, I was out of line. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 9/21/2008 1:26:09 AM | yeah the bible is super relevant these days
spankings are not necessary or more effective then non violent forms of punishment i guess some people need to spank their kids to feel in control.
plus spankings lead to sexual deviancy i can totally vouch for that too | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 9/21/2008 12:47:19 PM | | The only thing spankings ever taught me was to be a better liar. I have never struck my daughter and she is a fine upstanding kid - compassionate and considerate and well--behaved. There can be consequences for unacceptable actions that do not involve hitting, which is what spanking is - you are hitting your child, causing pain, fear and embarrassement and this will correct the behavior how??? What you are telling your child is I am bigger than you and I can hit you and you have no recourse except to suffer my wrath. That's sick when you think about it in those terms.... | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 9/21/2008 6:15:17 PM | plus spankings lead to sexual deviancy i can totally vouch for that too
I am sure you can.
My parents spanked and used belts or switches on all four of their children and none of us have any criminal record worse than a traffic ticket.I have an Aunt(god rest her soul) who would not spank any of her children and all three have been in and out of jail for just about everything short of murder.
I try to avoid spanking but some behavior crosses the line.
When my nine year old came home from her first day of pre-k(at the age of four) and told me that I could not spank her anymore because her teacher told her to call the police if I did.I had to go to the school and tell the teacher that I could and would spank my child any time I determined it was necessary. I then called my local school board representative.It is no longer the policy in local county schools to tell children that parents can't spank,especially since our local high school uses a paddle with parental permission. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 9/21/2008 11:20:36 PM | If the only way you can "correct" a child is by hitting them, either you are out of control, you have no control over your kid, or you lack creativity. Do you honestly believe the only way you can teach a child is to physically hurt them?
I've noticed over the years that the best parents I knew never hit their kids and the worst parents I knew hit their kids without a second thought. The most well-behaved children I knew were never hit and the kids I knew who were hit were not well behaved.
I think there is nothing to be gained by hitting a child and it can easily become child abuse. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/23/2009 8:21:10 PM | | I got spanked as a kid by hand, broom, slippers and even belt -ouch- it hurt my butt alot. Back home, spanking is a common norm to make the kids behave. i don't know having kids time out by sending to their rooms is effective punishment. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:35:54 AM | The kids I knew that got spanked for misbehaving never went out and stole peoples' stereos and they had a tendency to respect authority. The kids who were beaten turned into thugs. The kids who got nothing worse than an hour in their rooms turned into selfish adults.
Nothing wrong with spanking a kid if you feel it's necessary. Do it right and you'll never have to administer more than a few during the course of the kid's childhood. The threat alone should suffice. If some people think they can raise their children without ever spanking them , well good for them but it worked just fine for thousands of years and we have no more or less violent criminals running around today than we ever did before. A spanking is not the end of the world for any kid and besides , if the threat of physical punishment is enough to keep kids from breaking into hydro-electric transfer stations or playing in traffic then any spanking is a good thing. Your job as a parent is to protect them and usually it's from themselves. If logic can't persuade them to stay out of danger but intimidation from you can then so be it. It's better than dead children. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/24/2009 1:58:31 AM | I got spanked as a kid by hand, broom, slippers and even belt -ouch- it hurt my butt alot. Back home, spanking is a common norm to make the kids behave. i don't know having kids time out by sending to their rooms is effective punishment.
In theroy, time out is used to Teach children that mis behavior has consequences. By removing the child fom the behavior and telling them that the behavior is not acceptable your training your child that such behavior is not acceptable.
Spanking, could teach the same, but in your case you were hit with brooms, slippers, belts...seems more like just punishment without any learning...
1st, if spanking was effective, why didnt you stop mis behave after the first whipping?
2nd, Punishment is not intended to rehabilitate...people are in prison, not for rehabilitation, they are there for punishment of their crime...Seems they never learned Consequences...just punishment. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/24/2009 12:52:15 PM | Ultimately, I think how you discipline your kids probably has less effect on how they turn out than how much they respect/fear you in general. Children are like animals. You have to break their spirit first in order to get them to obey. If they step out of line, they must know you are in charge, not them. Otherwise, they will not take you seriously, will not respect your authority, and will continue to do whatever they please regardless of the consequences. If they respect/fear you enough, they won't want to step out of line.
That being said, your dominant will should be presented in a way that is always loving and protective. They should know they can count on you and that you'll always be there for them. But it should still be dominant enough to strike fear in their hearts when they do something they know they shouldn't be doing. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/24/2009 1:37:34 PM | ^^^ Break their spirit? Wow, that's sad. I wanted kids with "spirit", who could think for themselves, be creative, have opinions and so on. I never spanked my sons. Funny thing, they always knew I was the adult and thus "in charge" and treated me respectfully just as I treated them respectfully. They never feared me. How can they feel safe if they are in fear of a parent.
When they were young, they had some time outs, for up to 10 minutes then we had a discussion on what they did, what they should have done instead and how they can prevent doing it again. Then they were hugged, told they were loved and it was forgotten and not spoken about again.
We also talked a lot about trust and responsibility, just in conversation not just when they were being disciplined. They were also taught about consequences for their actions, whether those actions and consequences were good or bad.
I did all of the above consistently, beginning when they were very young. As they got older it was made clear what the consequences would be (grounding or whatever) for behavior we didn't condone (drinking, smoking, poor grades, etc. ) so that by the time they were teens, they no longer needed discipline, they were self-disciplined. We never had to ground them.
My sons are both grown and are productive, responsible, funny, intelligent, witty and happy.
It all comes down to communication on their level. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/24/2009 2:04:57 PM |
^^^ Break their spirit? Wow, that's sad. I wanted kids with "spirit", who could think for themselves, be creative, have opinions and so on.
I think you missed my point. I didn't mean break their spirit as in make them feel worthless. I meant break their spirit in terms of making them understand that they can't walk all over you.
How can they feel safe if they are in fear of a parent.
Again, this is not fear like you would have of an axe murderer or a rabid pitbull. It's a combination of love/respect/fear like what Christians have for God. It's something you have for an authority figure.
Every kid is different. If time outs and grounding worked for yours, that's great. But they don't work for everybody. As a product of the time out/grounding system, myself, I can say it did virtually nothing for me. By the time I was a teenager, when I'd get grounded for something, I'd laugh and walk out the door. But I'll tell you this; the one or two times my dad went against my mom's wishes and paddled me, I never did what I did again.
I say go with what works for your specific situation. But don't rule something out for arbitrary reasons. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 6/24/2009 2:08:13 PM |
You have to break their spirit first in order to get them to obey. If they step out of line, they must know you are in charge, not them. Otherwise, they will not take you seriously, will not respect your authority
they dont respect you they fear you.
spanking is a tool, its not the only tool you use...Spanking does set autority and commands atention, in a yournger child(4-6) but if your still having to spank at 7+ your not getting your point across. | |
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