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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 176 | |
| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 1/15/2007 10:18:24 AM | Cavalier: I need to clear one thing up, forgive me if I misunderstand...(and yes, I know your response isn't aimed totally at me)
But i ask this......is the screaming and yelling any less destuctive to the child's psyche than a spanking? Children, as many anti-spanking people have noted, emulate the behavior they see in their parents. Is it OK then for them to see that the way Mom handles conflict by screaming and yelling? Will that be acceptable behavior when they are adults? Of course not. It sounds as though the environment led these kids to misbehave...not the spankings. You said yourself the woman had no business having kids. I want to be clear that the screaming and yelling were not part of the behavior program. The screaming and yelling were from the kids. They didn't like that mom was doing something different and not giving their tantrums and demands the attention they were used to.
As for me saying she had no business having kids...yes, but the thing is, she DID have kids.
Then those parents and those for whom spanking evolves into abuse are the ones whose behavior needs to be modified I guess I wasn't clear enough with my explanation...the behavior management program we followed also worked on Mom's behavior and her reactions to her children's tantrums/misbehavior/acting out. As with any behavior modification program, the "teacher" needs to be willing to take accountability for their own part in the behavior and make necessary changes. Basically, Mom started taking time-outs, too, when she was feeling frustration and the urge to be physical.
Are you all under the assumption that any parent who would spank their child are only one temper tantrum from punching the kid in the face. Well, I can't speak for others, but for me, I don't think that at all...I only said that it would be too easy to cross the line.
I'm no expert, but I KNOW this program worked for her daughter. By no means will it work with every kid, but it wouldn't hurt to try. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 1/15/2007 10:30:20 AM | eldubu...
No my response wasn't totally aimed at you....rather you are one of the only people I've dicussed this with that seems rational. Sorry if i misinterpreted your post.
You wrote:
"There was a lot of screaming, yelling (from both her and the kids),"
I took that to mean both parties.
Your plan sounds very effective.... I just am firmly grounded in the belief that, when neccessary and applied calmly and without anger, spanking can be an effective tool for discipline. | |
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Rhett1
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Joined: 10/16/2005
Msg: 178 | |
| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 1/15/2007 10:41:40 AM | Cavalier: it seems that I actually was the one who misinterpreted my own post..haha.
Yes, I wrote that there was screaming and yelling from both, but in my last post, I was just trying to relay that there was a lot of tension. I wanted to relay that my friend was not doing this program but still keeping up her own poor behavior.
I miswrote (is that a word? It is now!). I know she yelled a bit still, yes. I guess what I wrote made it seem that she didn't yell at all...that's not how I meant it.
My boo-boo. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 1/15/2007 4:39:18 PM |
My problem is blanket statements by folks with no kids saying spanking is wrong under any circumstances. You simply aren't qualified to make such a statement.....noone is. Each child is different and requires different approaches to discipline.
You're right, I don't have children and I dont' have them because I'm scared to have them. I'm scared to have them because as much as I preach about not physically inflicting pain upon your children I am terrified that I will repeat my mother's behavior. This is one of the repurucssions of being an abused child (just one) - I want children and know that I will be a great mom, but am too scared to do so - sad isn't it?
Do not say that because a person does not have a child that they are not qualified to make such a statement.
Some children are a product of their environment, and if they are brought up by parents who do not have the time, patience or energy to spend with them and think hitting them is the most effective alternative, then those parents should have thought about the long term of having children.
There are too many alternatives to spanking that it should not be necessary. Some people find it too hard and trying to use these alternatives, and I can understand that, but once again...there's an adult and there's a child - the adult being the one that deemed themselves responsible and mature enough to bring a child into the world should be the one responsible and mature enough to discipline and raise their children without physically and/or emotionally hurting them.
Do not make statements such as that, it is offensive and belittling. I have been around enough children in my life and have had enough personal experience to allow me to state and stand by my belief.
Understanding and knowledge is a powerful thing. Thinking before you speak and react may not always be easy but is the approach that makes the most sense.
We will all have varying opinions on this, and I do not think that people are not entitled to thier opinions, I just don't agree with some of them , as I'm sure others will not agree with mine. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 1/16/2007 5:35:41 AM | "Do not make statements such as that, it is offensive and belittling. I have been around enough children in my life and have had enough personal experience to allow me to state and stand by my belief."
You are certainly entitled to you opinion, hug seeker....as I am entitled to mine. And in my opinion, you have been very quick to judge what MILLIONS of parents(with happy and healthy and well-adjusted children)feel is a perfectly reasonable form of discipline when the situation calls for it. Your playing the victim here doesn't change the fact that you have basically charged all those millions of parents with being abusive poor parents. I take offense at that insinuation. Your personal experience has shaped your opinion in this matter...I understand that....as has mine.
I will try not to dismiss the views of folks without parents if you can manage not pass judgement on parents who, with experience you lack, feel differently than you in this matter. Your personal experience in this situation was as a child...therefore your perspective must be colored by those experiences. Those of us with children have been on both sides of this issue...first as children ourselves...now as parents. It gives us an insight you can only imagine.
You seem very sweet. You should have children. I strongly feel that you have what it takes to be a good parent....I think your feelings are so strong on this issue that your fears about you repeating your mothers behavior are unfounded. I wish you the best and hope that after you have kids of your own that you'll understand a little better my position.
I did not intend to belittle you with my comments, but ask your friends with kids..........you cannot possibly have a clue as to what it's like to have children until you have your own. It's impossible for a parent to convey how drastically your life changes or how complex child rearing issues can be. When you experience that your self you'll understand that almost no topic involving raising kids is as black and white as you make this issue sound. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 1/16/2007 6:59:06 AM | | The corporal punishment debate rages on and on....lol....anyway...I have discussed this issue ad nauseum and changing someone else's beliefs is like trying to push a rope. If anyone is interested on either side of the issue, check out loveandlogic.com. The materials and ideas there work very very well. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/3/2007 11:08:33 AM | "I was spanked
My parents were spanked
Their parents were spanked
Their parents parents were spanked...you see where I'm going with this.
And it never did ANYONE any harm."
Obviously it did do you some harm halokitty, it taught you that the way to solve things is by hitting. I'm sorry, but that's not the way to do it. Studies show that just spanking is actually a bad thing and I'd take science over someone who spanks childrens' words any day. Nothing shows that not hitting kids makes them out of control. You have to take into account other things, like changes in media and life in general that are affecting children, not just a drop in spanking. If you think about it, children see violence in the media all the time, how is spanking that child, no matter what you use or how you do it, how is that use of physical punishment going to teach them not to use physical punishment in their own lives. "Gee I seen it on TV and Mom spanks me so it must be the right thing to do."  | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/3/2007 1:12:09 PM |
Saddest of all, the kids that are truly abused by their parents are still being abused and seriously hurt. While other parents are afraid to use any physical discipline at all.
Bingo Angel. Very well said.
All the "experts" come up with new theories and studies to sell their own books. Many of them have no kids of their own, and I do blame the new age thinking for a lot of the problems we have today (as well as the lack of father figures in many homes). Different situations call for different solutions. A spanking is one of the last resorts when other things fail.
Bottom line is that until they learn how to reason and make decisions... kids are basically the same as animals. A kid that has never been around violence can and often does get into scraps with other kids. They slap, they bite, they scratch. It is a parent's job to teach reason and discipline to their kids. The time outs, talks etc are a good way to teach reasoning... but sometimes nothing gets the message through better than a smack on the bum cheeks. It is critical to keep your own cool though so you do not cross the line between a spanking and a beating. Pain is the most effective stimulus of them all when used properly.
The key that some people forget is what has to come after the spanking. Let them stew for a while and stop crying, then go in and calmly ask if they know why they got spanked. Explain exactly what they did wrong, and WHY it is wrong. THIS is where they learn. It makes the lesson real. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/3/2007 2:08:02 PM | | Experts can't just make stuff up. For a study to be accepted it has to be proven over and over by other experts as well. This is like saying that your doctor is going to make up diseases so that he/she will get more money, guess u better not take any medicine from your doctor then. If you can't handle your kids without hitting/spanking whatever, then you are doing something wrong. I was never spanked and turned out a great person. So just because you don't have the patience to be consistent with your child, don't go hitting them. And as far as kids being like animals until a certain age, A maybe in your mind and B Animals shouldn't be hit either!!! If you can teach your dog to sit without beating it, can't you teach your kid to do the same? | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/3/2007 4:04:43 PM | Why do so many people equate not spanking with not disciplining? There are many other ways to discipline a child. It is lack of discipline that harms children, not lack of spanking. While I support the right to spank, I think it should only be used as a last resort or in cases where the child is close to harming himself ie. darting out into the street, reaching for a hot pot etc. Each parent has to find out what works best for his/her child(ren) and in many cases, other forms of discipline will work just as good or better, but they have to be applied consistently.
I read one post where the poster said that with children having tv, video games, phones etc in their room, banishment to their room is not punishment. Well, duh - it would be if those items were removed from the room for the punishment period or the child was forbidden to use them, and the parent stick to that edict. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/4/2007 1:03:22 AM | First off I must admit I have no kids of my own. I do have some experiance raising kids but am no parent. However, I have enough experiance to know that all spanking does is teach your children that violence is an acceptable way to deal with people. I have read a few posts on here where people have said they will only spank as a last resort. To me that shows these people believe spanking is wrong as well. They will hit a child when they do not know what else to do.
I have been guilty of this before. We threw a Bday party for the kid of a girl I was seeing . He was turning 4. It was hot, I was tired and all the kids were going a little nuts. He was being quite the brat;hitting, pushing, screaming and not letting other kids play with the toys. So I took him aside a gave him what I thought was a decent spanking(not too hard so somebody would call the cops but hard enough so he knew I was there). Afterward he looked up at me with watery eyes and asked"Why you do dat". So I explained to him that he was not behaving and how he should treat the other kids nicer.
But that was just a bunch of crap. I knew the real reson was because I was frustrated and did not know what else to do. So I told myself never again. I will never claim to be an expert on child raising but there are definately other options than spanking.
Later | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/5/2007 7:18:46 AM | I wholeheartedly support the removal of all forms of abuse from the family and community and good laws that support that end. I also support the reasonable use of spanking, which if done in an appropriate manner is not abuse, and the law recognizes that here, although I am not in favour of a "nanny state". Discipline is a matter of teaching the mind and takes many forms, only one of which is spanking in the case of parenting. It was my experience. It will be only one of the thousands of tools in my future parenting experience, and it has been part of my past role in an authorized parents place. The rules are simple when it might be used and many factors must be present in my view.
-rare -never in anger or frustration -love -talking -listening -private -hugs -kisses -no marks -bum only -bare only (see what and where) -safety/safely -clear understanding -no hard devices
If there is any sign of abuse, I have no legal choice but to report any know or suspected case. That is the law for all of us in Ontario Canada, and may be in your community. It is your duty to report it or be charged for your failure to do so. If I see abuse happen, I would not hesitate to intervene and effect an arrest. Children are not the only victims, so I encourage all to help break that silence and cycle of violence.
Based on my experience with youth and community, including in the courts and related matters, there is a clear lack of values and discipline of the minds of too many children and youth. There is a great deal of communication that needs to be done and has not been. There has been a huge lack of love, affection, and respect for self and others. We fear showing that or a level of authority over a child for the sake of political correctness, and look at the damage in the last half century alone. Time travel a youth from today back a few years and see where "the attitude" gets them. From "yes sir/mamm" then to "f/u B* I'll do what I want" now... I see no progress or advancement there. That will not get a person to anyplace in life worth any level of self respect or to that of others.
"Be Good All Day" | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/5/2007 7:59:19 AM | | My mom has hit me three times in my life, and I wholeheartedly believe I deserved it. First was when I was very young, can't remember why lol. The other two was when I was a teenager and I found out that my mom doesn't like being called an stupid incompetent ****. Do I hold it against her? Heck no, if I was in her place, I'd have hit me too. There's a large different between abusing your child and asserting authority. My father never hit me, but he never had too. I recall him specifically raising his voice at me twice in my life, and believe me, it scared the shit out of me. A few of my cousins, whom my aunt uses the nice talking to method, are complete brats...cry constantly to get what they want (which is obviously fake) and essentially have no discipline. Do I think beating your child is wrong? HELL YES Do I think spanking your child when they have done something completely out of line is wrong..HELL NO | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/5/2007 9:22:52 AM | If kids are not physically disciplined, then what will they do when they get to be adults?
They are very likely to assume that they can get away with rape and murder, and guess what? They do. Crime is on the rise in a big way, ans most of the rapes murders are being done by young men and women, for insults and trivial things. Then you wonder why all the prisons are full. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/5/2007 10:42:21 AM | | I was spanked backhanded and once a got a real good shiner and deserved it. As for my kids, my daughter I smacked her little hand once ever she is now 16. My son I spanked him, timed out, took everything away, wouldve tied him up if it were legal. I hope every day we are over those rough times and most days we are. I dont think the spanking worked any more or less than the other crap I tried and I tried it all even the child psychologists and ritalin. I call it normal kids and childhood. I can look back now and say I did my best read every book and know that we did and still do have a great relationship. I have 2 teens in high school that have jobs make good grades and respect there mom and obey her rules. Not to bad I would say. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/5/2007 8:10:51 PM | My parents must not have heard of this time-out stuff. Oh, I was a little heliant, and my mom (never my father) beat me like a rented mule. And as a result, I matured.
To some degree.
Lol | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/5/2007 8:14:26 PM | Maybe it’s this simple: some children are smart enough to recognise right from wrong, some can be reasoned with, some need a little gentle prodding, and some, like me, needed a foot in our asses.
Spanking should be a last resort. Discussing the issue should be a first option. Everything in between depends on the child, I guess. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/6/2007 4:19:22 PM |
Experts can't just make stuff up. For a study to be accepted it has to be proven over and over by other experts as well. This is like saying that your doctor is going to make up diseases so that he/she will get more money, guess u better not take any medicine from your doctor then.
Nobody is claiming they do; what they don't say in the results of whatever studies is that every single child is different and just because they researched 99 kids out of that thousand 991 are not guaranteed to have the same result/response.
That is the thing about psychology, I do not dispute that they are experts in human behavior; yeah, but only the ones they have researched, observed and studied.
Nobody else beyond that...
I was never spanked and turned out a great person. So just because you don't have the patience to be consistent with your child, don't go hitting them. And as far as kids being like animals until a certain age, A maybe in your mind and B Animals shouldn't be hit either!!! If you can teach your dog to sit without beating it, can't you teach your kid to do the same?
Your argument proves as much as the one that claims to be spanked/borderline abused and yet turned out to be a great person; you can say anything about yourselves, the true results have to come from the people surrounding you; what do they think about you? Honestly?
You know, self illusion is often the trait of a spoiled brat that was never spanked and thanks to the parent's treatment he/she thinks they deserve the world and walk around as if everyone owes them something..
If you can't handle your kids without hitting/spanking whatever, then you are doing something wrong.
Right now, your behavior is the one that says that your way is the only right way of doing things, call me crazy, but isn't that another characteristic which goes along with self-illusion? Maybe, maybe not...
To answer the OP; I see nothing wrong with spanking a child, as long as it is done to correct undesirable behavior and not just because they pissed you off...
My house, my rules, and if anyone wants to tell me how to raise my kid, maybe they can start helping out with him financially as well, otherwise, blah blah, blah...
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/7/2007 8:10:24 AM | Be creative with discipline.. when they're out of control, and you can't 'reach' them, run their little asses into the bathroom and flush their heads down the toilet.
That gets their attention every time. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/8/2007 2:25:00 PM | I grew up as a child of being spanked. I'm the oldest so, my mom got more practice on me. She was pretty good by the time my youngest brother came around. I hated being switched and hit with a shoe or whatever she could find. She was never abusive, just corrective.
When my kids came along, I had to take them to the proverbial woodshed a time or two. They have thanked me for the punishments that I gave them. Each has his or her story of what they consider their worst spanking. My daughter's favorite is when I picked up the couch with one hand so it would block her from running and then I leapt over the couch caught her before she ran the other way, and spanked her just before Sunday services.  But they're all basically good kids. I'm thankful for that.
Oh, did I mention I am the type of parent that no matter where you need it, that's where you get it. | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/16/2007 7:28:56 PM | That is the thing about psychology, I do not dispute that they are experts in human behavior; yeah, but only the ones they have researched, observed and studied.
If you had read what I said, you would see where I said for a study to be accepted it has to be proven... and yes that does mean researched, observed, and studied.. and there are numerous of those that show just how spanking has bad effects on children!!!
Right now, your behavior is the one that says that your way is the only right way of doing things, call me crazy, but isn't that another characteristic which goes along with self-illusion? Maybe, maybe not...
Okay, you're crazy!
And are you not doing the same thing? Is not anyone arguing a point doing the same thing? Are we all "self-illusioned" even those that are arguing that spanking should be done, even those who were spanked?? So in fact does this mean that you are saying that you are yourself, self-illusioned??
You know, self illusion is often the trait of a spoiled brat that was never spanked and thanks to the parent's treatment he/she thinks they deserve the world and walk around as if everyone owes them something.. And where are your facts to support that one??
And I'm sorry, but calling me a spoiled brat that was never spanked is just plain stupid. I was never spoiled and never had to be spanked. I am a honor student and I work to pay my own way through school.. I have a good relationship with my family but I do not depend on them for anything beyond their love. It has always been this way. I do not do drugs, do not smoke, have stable relationships.. so please tell me where that makes me a spoiled self-illusioned brat???  | |
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| what's so bad about spanking your kid?
Posted: 7/16/2007 8:18:31 PM | I rarely spank my child. In fact it has happened twice.
The first time was after repeated attempts to keep him from running out onto the road; time outs, removal of favorite toy, talks, even sharp words did not stop him from running out onto the road. This was probably the tenth time he ran out onto the road - and this time was near frightening. So right there I gave him two taps on the bottom (a shock, not a pain) and again told him to never, ever go out onto the road without a big person holding his hand. He has not ventured near the road on his own since. Now he will reach for an adult hand every time.
The second time I smacked his hand away from a hot surface. I had told him previously several times that it was hot, and he understood that hot was something he was not to go near. Now when I say "hot," he does not reach for the object in question.
Was I wrong? Am I an abuser? I doubt it. I would much rather him have a slight sting to the back of his hand than a severe burn, or a shock to his backside than a maimed or dead child. I did try - in both situations - other (ineffective) methods first. It is not something I make a habit of, nor will I make a habit of spanking my child.
I was spanked occasionally when I was a child. The discipline matched the crime with my parents. There IS the odd situation where immediate action is necessary for survival learning. I was belted for trying to brain my brother with a sledgehammer, and he for trying to brain me with a shovel - definitely deserving of physical punishment, and I do not begrudge my parents one iota for that. I was grounded if I came home late (without a good cause.) But being alone in my room with no entertainment was not a punishment for me. I have far too much imagination to ever be bored. My folks tried time outs with me, but for someone with a vivid imagination, a time out was just extra time to daydream, and entirely ineffective as a discipline. Taking something away from me was useless for my folks too - I would just imagine something, and write it out as soon as I could. I was never bored by my self... "Talks" were mostly tuned out.
I think (and this is my opinion only) that the discipline depends upon the child. Some mild disciplines just do not work on some children. Luckily for me, my son is a little easier to discipline than I ever was. Usually time outs work, so long as he is facing a blank wall, and can hear someone having fun elsewhere.
I do not agree with spanking for every offense. | |
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