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Posted: 3/14/2005 10:34:07 PM | | I meant to intonate - not tune. Doing it by ear is pointless if you have no concept of perfect pitch, which is natural in some, and takes a long time to develop in others. I do agree that if you can't tune your guitar by ear though, YOU NEED TO LEARN HOW TO. Ever notice that the tone you hear when you pick your phone is the harmonic over the 5th fret of your A string? It's near perfect... | |
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Posted: 3/14/2005 11:58:12 PM | yes the tone is a mixture of an a note
and an f note I believe
my post above is explaining intonation
not tuning | |
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Posted: 3/15/2005 1:51:21 AM |
I meant to intonate - not tune. Doing it by ear is pointless if you have no concept of perfect pitch, which is natural in some, and takes a long time to develop in others
In regards to intonation, perfect pitch is meaningless, this is a function of relative pitch pure and simple.
Just a FYI, ...is all. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 12:54:57 AM | So you can perfectly intonate your electric without any type of tuner? Late? if so, I have to call
well not bullsh*tbut can you teach me how??? Jesus, I never heard of that. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 1:54:52 AM | No stringed instrument can be perfectly intonated (even with things like Earvana and Buzz Feiten "compensations") one needs only to understand the way a piano is tuned by "tempered" means to realize this.
Can I teach you? No, this you must learn yourself, unfortunately there is no short-cuts here. I've intonated instruments since before the advent of "cheap" electronic tuners, ....I've used them for this and still rely on my ears for the final tweaking.
Any way you look at it, it's an exercise in compromise. bridge saddle string length adjustment is only one factor. Saddle height, neck relief, neck/body pitch (angle) and bridge/stop piece pitch(where applicable), pick-up height (where applicable) and even how many wraps on the tuner post (affecting string pitch at the nut), are ALL very important in accurate intonation, as is left hand technique while playing.
The ultimate intonation tool after all is said and done, is having a disiplined fretting hand. Some guys can't play a well intonated instrument to save their lives. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:03:47 AM | Very good. I know about most of what you said, but I've never heard/learned about how many times you wrap your strings around the tuning posts. Can you explain that one... I truly never heard of.
p.s. I make a Sears guitar sound like a Guild with My left hand.... I heard you could too from a few posters here. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:09:36 AM | HANDSOME N HONEST
PLEASE GET A PETERSON DIGITAL STROBE TUNER
RE-READ POST ------->>1410
HERE ARE Y0OUR ANSWERS....................
PS
FORGET ABOUT THE IDEA OF INTONATING BY EAR
JUST EXPELL THE THOUGHT FROM YOUR MIND
OH BY THE WAY
RE READ #1410
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:21:32 AM | | Okay with the caps G-man. I get it: get a peterson tuner. I'd rather my old a$$ tuner I've had for ten years, or my seven tuning forks - never let me down yet and all my $$ go into University. I've known how to intonate my electrics for 11 years now, and was wondering what your CAPS and REREAD1410 had to do with the number of loops on your tuning posts, like my post above yours asks... | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:25:27 AM | just trying to help
my caps lockwas just on ..............
3 wraps is enough
what kinda tuner you got? | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:29:58 AM | String wrap determines the pitch (angle) at the nut. This affects (albeit in a small way) the amount of tension change in "pushing" the string down when you fret it.
I often play a solid-body "resonator" guitar, .....it has a "biscuit" bridge and cannot be adjust at the saddle at all. That sucker's ALL left hand, .....
Chet Atkins had a Delvecchio resonator guitar with horrible intonation, ....it sounded wonderful though, so he loved using it.
He played it "intonated" by varying finger pressure.
This cannot be taught ....has to be learned
I feel that ultimately, ....the player MUST learn how to intonate his/her own guitars if they want them to be adjusted for their own, idiosyncrasies and quirks of playing technique that only they themselves can "know".
It must also be said that due to string-wear and non-elasticity intonation can never really be a static concept.
We can compromise but, never perfectly intonate a guitar. They are and will always be "desfinado" half the fun is in the battle.
Don't even get me started on intonation/Strats .............
G-man - "FORGET ABOUT THE IDEA OF INTONATING BY EAR JUST EXPELL THE THOUGHT FROM YOUR MIND"
LOL!!!!!
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:31:56 AM | Nawh on the three wraps.... I was just wondering why the # of wraps would affect the intonation, whether 2 or 5, and how?
My tuner... d*mn I'll have to get back to you on that one... I have not a f'kn clue. It's black, red, and white, and got a dial on it, it's probably as old as my dad. That's all I ever need to know. My tuning forks tell me it's still dead on for accuracy, so that's the important part right.
edit:
Thanks Late...Shite you really know your stuff, as others suggested huh? Are you a studio musician? You know, the "fill-in" better than the band recording...Laughs! It always makes me laugh when I hear of someone actually getting signed, and not being able to record their own music. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:38:01 AM | "My tuning forks tell me it's still dead on for accuracy, so that's the important part right."
I used to have a few really massive piano tuner forks, huge .....best tuning aids I ever owned, ....they were stolen over 25 years ago (sob!).
Watch a piano tuner work sometime, the best ones?
........All ear. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:44:41 AM |
Are you a studio musician?
Yup, but I am also a support musician for those I record with, I play in a few bands aside from that and still do the occasional "cold call" (my meat n' taters). I also teach guitar at the Ottawa School of Piano and co-design, hand-wired "boutique" tube amps for Flint Amplification out of Montreal.
I hafta' keep my fingers in a few things to pay the mortgage. | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:45:01 AM | Perfect pitch is my dream, i'd say i'm about 5 out of 7. Still working on it though... For some reasons certain notes stand out more than others... My best friend has different notes stand out than mine.
I wonder why that is... Do certain people hear diefferent pitches better than others? Is there such a thing as an B# person or a Cb. Maybe they should do a study on this, then promote it like the zodiac. D people are compatible in a relationship with other Ds, As, F#...etc...
Instead of listing the zodiacs on our profiles, it could list our pitches... | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:45:31 AM | dudes
I custom build compensated nuts for all guitars
they get rid of 90% of the common problems
I was taught by Alex Lifeson's tech(RUSH)
I am probably the most experienced in this field then any tech in western canada
-Late you are right on the money on everything....................BUT
if a guitar is custom fitted for a compensated nut
all the tuning pressure stuff is not needed
and being that it different fretting tension would be needed for every different guitar
In my opinion it can lead to bad technique
It is a Band-Aid solution to a problem with a real solution
when guys come in to my shop and tell me they do that ......................
it is like saying
"My shoes don't fit...........
so I learnt to walk this way to make them not hurt so much"
WHEN the actually solution is get shoes that fit...............
I.e.
a compensated nut cut for that specific guitar
and what I am doing is like 5 steps beyond buzz fieten(his system is a compromise) | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 2:50:59 AM | Heh heh....... I believe you bro'.
But, my best intonated instrument uses a "zero" nut, .....that kinda' leaves me having to walk funny I guess.
My Dano' and my resonator axe would probably make you cringe. LOL!!!!!
Edit: Have you tried the Gambale Yamaha with the "FretWave" ? | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 3:03:40 AM | ya i basically
disappeared for 2 years developing my compensation techniques
did tons of buzz feiten mods
it has many flaws
what I do is totally the real deal
I have talked to every tech on the west coast and they have no idea
my customers bring in one guitar to get done
then 2 weeks later all of their guitars...............
it kinda makes you spoiled
yes you can intonate by ear
I have read entire piano tuning mannuals
eg
a compensation
on a piano..............
"play two notes i.e. a fifth
they will have you tune the piano so that there is a slight waver which is very specific
"5 over one minute"
It is crazy
and unless you have a great ear you can be out cause we all have good and bad ear days
a strobe tuner not so much..............
people pay me good money to make their favorite guitar chime........it is my specialty
and i could go on forever about intonating a strat or a les paul
I get a chuckle out of some people's tricks cause they are ....................
lol
p.s.
yes i tried the fret wave in LA
at Manny's music
it compensates the 2 woRst strings the g and b
it is doing the same thing I do just in a different way
probably to avoid copyright issues with buzz
but it is kinda like a "subMARINE SANDWICH joint" trYing to get a patent on "the sandwich"
ya right
ever see a micro frets guitar from the '60s
these ideas have been around forever
the fret wave sucks cause
-what do you do when it is re-fret time?
-what do you do when you want a different fret wire size?
nope no good
and the GAMBLE GUITAR HAD SOME REALLY UNCOMFORTABLE FRETBOARD RADIUS
LIKE 15 OR 16 WAY TOO FLAT
poop I tell you
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Posted: 3/16/2005 5:05:10 AM |
we all have good and bad ear days
...Oh most definitely, I never, ever ...... work on a guitar if I have a fever or a cold, and I have perfect pitch. When I'm sick, it's all over the map.
re: Microfrets, .......dammit! now I'm showing my age. Yeah I remember those, Mark Farner (Grand Funk) used to use one. I played one years ago, ....... liked it too, it had great pups.
re: FretWave, ..... Yup, I thought it felt like crap.
re: Radius, .......... Actually, when it comes to strats ....if it doesn't have a 7.25" rad and "spagetti frets"? To me it ain't a strat, .....my old '59 spoiled me. The '90s MIJ RI strats are the closest "feel" to my old '59, ....the American and Mexican strat necks don't even come close, IMO.
Used a nice amp in the studio a week ago, a very sweet, '53 Tweed Deluxe. Man! I've become way more picky about amps than guitars ........I'm WAY more fussy about the amp end of the equasion.
Here's some amp porn for ya' bro'-
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Pictures/Tweed.JPG
And at the bottom of the next pic is a '56 Tweed Vibrolux ....and the thang with the coloured knobs above is a Massenburg 8200 Parametric Equalizer (BTW George Massenburg invented the parametric EQ), ....newest edition to the studio .....that thing was like $8000!
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Pictures/EQ.jpg | |
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Posted: 3/16/2005 5:25:01 AM | frick LATE
I need a bib after checking out your amp links that rules !!!!
ya 7.25 feels great not the best for blues bends
I do a compound radius 7.25 -12 on the top end to allow clean bends
the reason I got into the building modding business is because
I cut up stock strats----I love vintage too but
for me
ie biggest frets I can find ----dunlop 6100
or 6000 ---super nice fretting ----light touch
tall frets improve sustain
refinish in fullpaster and nitro for the classic strat thing
take the finish off the neck
gun oil on the neck-----smooth not sticky
I can make any guitar feel like an old comfortable pair of jeans | |
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Posted: 3/18/2005 5:27:32 PM | WOOT WOOT>>> GEAR ALEART~ GEAR ALEART!!!
Purchased to day….. Drum roll please..
The flaming Jackson DK-2 pro series.
The Peterson Strobo Stomp…. As recommended by our very own resident "Guitarman" him self.. EXCELENT advice I might add.
One EVH phase 90.
Bummer alert.. The EVH phase 90.. Is defective.. And will be returned tomorrow for a new one.
As always Guitarman thank you for your excellent advice. It’s Much appreciated!
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Posted: 3/18/2005 5:47:53 PM | Ahhhhhh....... ha ha.....
Jimi got G.A.S. ....
Check out the sweet pair in my "avatar"
<<<<<<<
'56 Tweed Vibrolux being "listened to" by a Lawson L47 tube mic .......
Does it get any better?
Well, if you like the tone on the "old" ZZ Top albums, ......yer pretty much lookin' at it. | |
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Posted: 3/18/2005 6:04:33 PM | sweet late.. looks like its been well used..
your way over my head in knowlage.. but i take your word for it.. i like the old ZZtop sound..
awesome stuff.
oh yea.. also i am pretty good at tuneing by ear.. but nothing wronge with getting it perfect. | |
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Posted: 3/18/2005 6:36:17 PM | good work jimi
welcome the super cool gear club..................the hey guys this thing is the real deal club.........
those tuners rock
and I tune /intonate by ear sometimes after I use any tuner
cause every guitar has its issues a bit
p.s.
now jimi get yourself a
digitech 2101 w /foot control(with the second processor board in it)
off of ebay about $280-$300
you will never leave your house if you buy it.................
and I have not streered you wrong......ever
AWESOME JIMI | |
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Posted: 3/18/2005 9:03:55 PM | Thanks guitar.. Your driving me to the poor house I tell ya.. The POOR HOUSE..
No you have not steered me wrong yet.. Everything you said was the real deal.
This is jimi77 ... and I endorse guitarman for advice, guitars to be built and repaired....this is a man you can trust!.
This message brought to you by POF and the concerned citizens for guitars and there tone | |
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