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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 4:16:45 PM |
we had a hard time to get the marshall style brake up
Did you have a '60s Marshall to a-b it with?
Or are you talking about the DSL/TSL bee boxes?
are there any websites that show how to do the mods?
Schematics for the "plexi" Marshalls and Traynors are probably an easy find on Google.
The YVM can be "ganged", ....by jumping inputs with a 1/4" patch cord though.
Both the "plexi" Marshall and the old Traynors are actually based on the Tweed Fender Bassman, ...itself based on schematics given away by Western Electric since the '40's. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 4:35:39 PM | thanks for the input,serviced when i bought it (100.00cdn) all i changed on it was the cloth because it was ripped,and all the tubes inside are originalls,with the exception of the 12ax7a(1 died on me)
and now hold 2=el34wxt(russian)tech who did all the work checked all the circuits and transformers and he was amazed that they all worked 100%
yorkville street was the hippie area in toronto situated between Bay st and University Ave
now it houses the snob crowd.
besides its not the equipment that makes a musician,its the player behind it.
johhny winter said it best(if it sounds good to me,then i play it) | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 5:24:28 PM |
besides its not the equipment that makes a musician,its the player behind it.
I disagree.
"A great player can make a lousy amp sound great, a great amp can make a great player sound better, a lousy player makes a great amp merely a piece of equipment."
- late™
2=el34wxt
I know an amp tech who calls all the "wxt", a "polished turd".
Check out a pair of JJ/Tesla EL34/6CA7 ......you'll get more crunch 'cause you can bias them hotter. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 7:41:28 PM | late you might be right
I was probably trying to get that slutty LA metal distortion with that amp
I have an 1980 50watt marshall jmp head too
my tech said it is the same curcuit as the jcm 800
I guess I was trying to get the sound I get with that head when I put an overdrive in front
of the jmp head
ps .dudes.......... I play Jazz fusion too and some blues
I just grew up with Eddie Vanhalen so that sound is in my head too | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 8:46:08 PM | Have you ever played through a '60s JTM 45?
The later marshalls don't have the same "crunch" ....it's all in the output stage. The master volume marshalls sound "wimpy" compared to the original ones.
But, ...you have to run them full out. And you MUST have the right speaker to get "that" sound.
The Traynor you have is easier to mod to a JTM 45 "plexi" than the Voicemaster, but the Voicemaster has more room and another tube socket, ...more possibilities.
The early Bassmaster is Pete Traynor's version of the Fender 5F6/8-A ('58-'59 Bassman/Twin) circuit that Marshall copied in the JTM45 ('62) and stuck to somewhat thereafter ... both Traynor ('65) and Marshall introduce changes to the 5F6/8-A circuit that distinguish them from the "mother" circuit ... the Traynor version alters the volume pot values to a high 4Meg - this gives the preamp an overly spungy feel due to interaction with dynamic grid currents (players who find Traynors more wimpy should look into changing the pots to 1 meg) ... also like Marshall, the Traynor BassMaster output stage is slightly different in flavour and drive characteristics relative to the 5F6/8-A Fender circuit ... the BassMaster originally was running on 7027A's and later changed to EL34s, the BassMaster tranny is massive, ... like Marshall, so did Traynor also change a few components in the tone stack versus the 5F6-A tone stack (similar to Fender Blackface/Silverface values in fact) ... the early Bassmaster probably sports the best output tranny traynor ever used and is the main reason to play this amp (the same goes with all good amps obviously) ... the sound of the output transformers is not
as glassy as that of a Marshall Plexi or many early Garnets(Yeahh!) but it is nice enough that many players regard it as a magical guitar tube amp.
The great amps that made those awesome sounds of classic rock did so with out high gain preamps, you have to experience it to feel the difference when you play, it's like the amp "Locks" with the guitar and the interactivity is heaven. That's why I have so many low watt amps, I can get 75% percieved sound level with a 10 watt as you can with 50 watts, .....100 watts is only twice as loud as 10.
Back to the Voicemaster: if you have one of these you have to do a few things to it to get it more guitar friendly, but unless I know a guy has the chops to poke around inside an amp chassis, I ain't tellin'.
These things can kill you even when they aren't plugged in.
I just grew up with Eddie Vanhalen so that sound is in my head too
Okay, you see? That was a late '60s Super Lead 100w "plexi" Marshall, bone stock, with a variac dropping the line AC to around 90v ....this causes something called, "starving the plates", ...less voltage to the power tube plates, earlier break up, ....also takes the 100w down to about 70w output. Does some other things to but nothing too weird. (I do this with my studio 1.3 watt EL84 Class "A" amp, by starving the plate via power transformer tap, full bore it's probably around 6 watts)
So basically, no overdrive pedal, no master volume, no speaker attenuation, ....cranked amp = output saturation. If you want that sound? the Traynor will get it before the JCM 800 will. I hate JCM 800s, crap build too, printed circuits, different circuit, they cheaped out on the iron too, ....not the same crunch
Lose the pedals, dime the amp, use alnico speakers and play with the same hands, ....ergo - Bob's yer uncle.
(Please don't go on eBay looking for a variac, ....you don't wanna go there, trust me.) | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:23:55 PM | I have a THD hot plate and a power soak for that attenution stuff
I also have a Traynor mark III combo 2X12
a funky amp
but it has a background hum sounds like 60 cycles
it must be in the power stage because if I use a power soak to attenute the amp
and crank the pre amp I can improve the signal to noise ratio significantly | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/27/2006 11:29:12 PM | besides its not the equipment that makes a musician,its the player behind it. not when ur talking to a amp guru. interesting reading.thks.  | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 12:14:47 AM | I have a THD hot plate and a power soak for that attenution stuff
This unfortunately is a way of dealing with using the wrong amp, you are in essence, dropping your foot down hard on the gas, and using the brake to control your speed. My buddy Rich Koerner calls' 'em "Tranny Toasters", ...this is because of something called "flyback". Besides the fact that they wreak havoc with your output tranny, (the place where the magic happens), they are definitely not transparent. This is because of the simple fact that they aren't, like a speaker, ...a reactive load. They are a static load.
Do you know what the load, as measured in Ohms, of an 8 Ohm speaker is?
The answer may surprise you.
This is why it's not the same tone that it claims to be producing by damping the load.
it has a background hum sounds like 60 cycles
Filter caps, bad ground, dying PT, burnt resister in the bias circuit (negative feedback loop) damaged OT if you've been using an attenuator, could be a few things.
crank the pre amp I can improve the signal to noise ratio significantly
Whens the last time the filter caps were done?
amp guru.
Not me, I just listened REAL close when ever I've been privileged to hang out with the real gurus, that dude Koerner is one of them, he's in NJ, just cross the river from you. One of the top 3 guys in the world, besides that, he can do guitar repairs that would make Dan Erlewine blush. (Time Electronics) Look him up, tell him "Dr. Wow" sent you. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 1:49:14 AM | hey guys....
i have a super buzzed out / noisy 1965/66 fender bassman piggy back with 2 -12 orginal spk.....jenson ?
big a$$ tubes and along with it was a gift from my parents was a brand new 1968 fender precsion....about 37 years ago.....
i also traded some other gear that i had when i was a kid.....and ended up with a strat !!!!!!!!
the amp....the pre bass and strat are so noisy.....i cant be bother to play them....but....the strat thru the fender bassman is wild and unheard of !
i use to play at high school dances back in my old school days !
i know you guys would love this old gear and i still get offers .....sorry not for sale ;)
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 3:26:22 AM | 1965/66 fender bassman piggy back with 2 -12 orginal spk.....jenson ?
Not the same circuit as the '59, still a killer amp though, the speakers are likely Jensen C12N's, Oxford 12T6's or Utah 12", all ferrite ceramic mag, not alnico, if it's the C12N's, ....lucky boy, if it's the others?
Boat anchors.
i have a super buzzed out / noisy
Easy fix, I bet I could even walk you through it, ....probably no more that $30 in parts, unless it needs tubes, then tack on another $35. It needs new electrolytic filter capacitors, ....I'd bet you a case o' beer.
.the pre bass and strat are so noisy..
Aw, this is an easy fix too, ......you should be nice to them, | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 9:43:57 AM | late
i checked out the time electronic site
wow that guy is good
I can learn a lot from a guy like that
his brass machining pics for floyd rose installs were very cool | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 10:09:52 AM | I checked it out too.
I guess around tax returns time i may have to take a trip
out to union nj. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 11:40:31 AM | I do use
the Thd hot plate
at it's minumum attenuation setting........2-4 db?
anything more than 3 clicks of attenuation and you can start to hear a lose of dynamics
the first 1 or 2 clicks it is pretty good
and it gives you a line level tap that you can send to effects and a seperate amp
a god sent for all the no fx loop tube heads I have
sometimes just for fun in the studio I will do the 3 channel set-up
left fx 100% wet-------------------center dry-------------------right fx100% wet
boogie power amp------marshall/traynor head(dry)---------boogie power amp
it sounds huge....makes you want to smoke a big phatty and trip out....lol
this was a popular set-up for guys like
eddie van halen,steve lukathur,eric johnson.......etc
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 12:24:09 PM | @ late™
Easy fix, I bet I could even walk you through it, ....probably no more that $30 in parts, unless it needs tubes, then tack on another $35. It needs new electrolytic filter capacitors, ....I'd bet you a case o' beer
=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_=_
hey dude....when i get back to ontario (home #1) i'll scan the diagram of the head and send you pictues with me sporting my old fenders strats/pre !
about the case of beer....is it just one ? thats all ? hahahahaha
hey you guys talking about brass machining ???? whats the web site url addi ?
anyway....thx late™ for the amp info "wow...who'd think , pof thread would have guitar equipment guru"?
cheers
danny | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 1:26:26 PM | found this site usefull.
http://guitargeek.com/rigview/258/
Mike Sterns setup is interesting. I loved his sound when he was in miles band.
anyone remember Sunn amps? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 1:40:42 PM | stevens
you need to get
'we want miles'
an amazing live cd my friend....a must have !!!
Mike stern is on there
I saw him at a clinic about 2 yrs ago he was just useing some rented twins
yamaha mke stern model tele
and an old yamaha spx 90 for his famous stereo tune chorus
it was all in his fingers,he just started playing and there it was...his sound
yes, I remember sunn amps
fender re-issued them awhile back too
probably not to same but still sound good
stevens your link was for eddie van halens rig | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 2:06:47 PM | WE WAnt Miles is gr8 CD i know i have it.is hard to find
i found it in a cd shop in lower manhatten i paid 30 bucks for it.
i saw Miles with that band at fordham uni in the bronx
first row a lil to the left side of stage just a few feet from marcus miller.
i was also alway,s hanging out at 55 Grand bar on wed's night years ago where
Mike held court.But during those day's too stoned to have cared about the guitar rig.
I was freinds with him back in the day.lol. First time i met him was at the blue note
on bleeker street when he was playing with Jaco.Man those guy's where awesome friggin
Jaco would be drenched in sweat halfway into the first song and never let up
threwout the show.
he also used to play at a place on 17th street with Billy Cobham on drums and jaco sittin
occasionally.
But we where high catz in those day's and my memory is spotty.lol. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 2:13:05 PM | There was also a place back in those day's called
The Drummers Collective where i did a stint as house guitarist where
those guys would come by and jam.particully Jaco.
in those day's i had a carvin les paul copy and i used a Sunn Stack.
Sunn head two marshall cabs. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 3:31:45 PM |
late
i checked out the time electronic site
wow that guy is good
I can learn a lot from a guy like that
Yeah, not a lot of guys have a Bridgeport Mill to do guitar repairs with.
He's a cool guy, besides repairs to amps and guitars (and anything else....), at a level few get to.
He's also a FOH genius.
Rich is a cool guy, Stevens is lucky he's close. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 4:01:32 PM |
@ stevens
i remember sunn amps....back in mid / late 60s....hendrix and many others rigged up with sunn...
ahhhh yes...the great jaco pastorius ....just awesome ....
as your memory serves you right and you recall musicians back in the day play'n at local bar/s....
i remember joe walsh playing in windsor ontario doing regular house gigs ..... always heard about jimi hendrix would play a lot of local windsor bars as well and many others back in the early part of the 60s ???
@ Gman
thx for the link dude !!!
@ late™ Yeah, not a lot of guys have a Bridgeport Mill to do guitar repairs with.  +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ question ? do you know of any blue prints to fabricate your own bridges ?
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 4:23:03 PM |
do you know of any blue prints to fabricate your own bridges ?
Searching patents will get you everything you want, ....just don't "sell" the finished product.
Rich thinks outside that box though, LOL!
timeelect.com/bbf.htm | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 8:05:39 PM | dannyabe
that is a killer pic of you in a band back in the day
give us the story on that one | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 1/28/2006 8:10:04 PM | Late
in a passive guitar curcuit we use 250 k and 500k pots......
if you wanted to attenuate a line level signal
IE
the output off a pedal
what would be the best value of pot to use?
I want to build a passive mixer pedal
100% dry and just a bit of wet with a bit of optional tone roll off for the effects
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