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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/29/2006 11:27:54 PM | Ouds run between $150 and $1000.
I paid less than $150.
Check out what they sound like:
http://homepage.mac.com/ewald/.Music/BAYATI_TAQSIM.mp3
There are always ouds available on eBay, though most of the "buy it now", ones are from
eBay stores. I've seen some decent ones go for around $150 CDN.
The next instrument I want is a Turkish Baglama-Saz, The guy I play with uses a Cura-Saz,
which is sort of, a "soprano" version.
Here's some pics of saz's:
http://www.eraydinsazevi.com.tr/images/gallery/saz-elektro.jpg
http://www.eraydinsazevi.com.tr/images/gallery/curalar-yatay.jpg | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/29/2006 11:55:35 PM | late
that sounds awesome
was that you playing on the mp3?
ps I want an oud
............................................................................................................................... | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/30/2006 5:30:05 AM | was that you playing on the mp3
Nope, it's anonymous.
A "Taqsim", is an improvised introduction, "Bayati", refers to the "key". As this type of music involves
micro-tones, the notes in the Bayati Rast ("Rast" in Arabic = "scale") include a quarter-tone betweem B
and Bb. It roughly corresponds to a minor scale, if you wanted to use western terms.
I like to use chordaphone instruments of other cultures, as it leads me to play "outside the box".
I'm also interested in aquiring a Chinese Pipa, an Uigyer Tembor, ...and all the different Turkish Cumbus
family. Then of course there's all of the chordaphone instruments of India. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/31/2006 3:11:27 AM | How would one who wants to learn guitar do so with little to no money and a dream?
BTW the dream is to learn to play the guitar.... just in case... ah.... well, you weren't paying attention...... that is all.
the giggleparts | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/31/2006 7:50:40 AM | How would one who wants to learn guitar do so with little to no money and a dream?
Desire + Instrument + time
An entry level Yamaha Pacifica electric, pitch-pipe, no amp, ....is a good start.
BTW the dream is to learn to play the guitar....
That part takes a lifetime, "little money" part, is above, "no money? ...requires that someone give
you an instrument, a playable one if you want to learn. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/31/2006 8:23:28 PM | How would one who wants to learn guitar do so with little to no money and a dream?
YER DREAMIN'!
Haha! Just kidding. If you want to learn to play the guitar, nothing... NOTHING will stop you.
I started with the desire to play and very little money (I was 16). A Japanese copy of a black Les Paul Custom, a small practice amp (all tube, it was a "Regal"... I wish I still had it), a book ("Lead Guitar" by Harvey Vinson- sorry Harvey if I got your name wrong!), the radio and I was in business, blasting guitar onto the street from my bedroom window within a day, all day!
I stopped bugging the neighbors before anyone complained, and kept on playing, playing, playing. Mostly I jammed with records and the radio, and that's where I learned the most.
The second most important link in the chain is the guitar. Better quality is always good, but remember the quality of the music comes from what YOU give it.
Enjoy, Man!!! ("Did somebody say keep on rockin'?") | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 5/31/2006 9:23:56 PM | hey giggleparts
longtime no chat
i was 14 my friend had Van HALEN II
that was it for me man,I bugged my parents for a guitar.
My mom thought I should start on a flattop acoustic.
van halen played a strat looking thing.......and that is what I had to get
so ya giggleparts,just bug your parents for the $$$$$$$$$$ | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 2:05:39 AM | first the guitar...I think pawn shops or garage sales are reasonably priced options. Your first axe might not be in the best shape, but you are just starting out and most people don't buy Ferraris when they are first learning to drive. If you have friends who play take them guitar shopping with you, so they can check for serious defects in the guitar.
I am assuming you have a computer or at least have access to one, because you are posting. There are lots of free on-line tools for beginners and even more advanced players. I am noticing that lots of players will post in this thread, if they have questions.
And when you are bugging someone for the money, tell tham that at least they will know what you are doing with your time and money if you take up guitar playing. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 2:47:36 AM | ^^^ Haha, yeah, how did everyone forget the pawn shop? You can pick up some really cheap, cool guitars. There always seems to be some vintage single coil pickup guitars in there, like a Kay, Framus or Hagstrom or something. I might recommend these, because they're cheap and reflect your guitar skill levels, and also usually have a good, open tone with more character to them which is perfect (I find single coils to be much better to learn on than humbuckers, mainly because they have good character). Advance to humbuckers when you can get a single coil guitar to do what you'd like....I know that I learned on a cheapo El Degas strat that has single coils, and when I switched to a humbucking SG, it didn't have the tone that I was looking for, because the Strat was so much snappier and forgiving to my crappy style (turns out that the pickups weren't that great in the SG, and as I advanced in guitar skills, I replaced the pickups).
Plus, there's something about the worn in aspect of guitars.....and i'm just going on pure hunch here, but there's something about the sweat, dirt and the spirit/ aura of the guitar that just lends a better sound, tone and playability. These guitars also hum like a b itch, but when you're starting out, you should have a forgiving, open tone and those b astards have 'em. I don't hear near enough people advising to start out on single coils, and I say that it's very important, because humbuckers can yield a pretty bland tone at times, if you're not experienced (even still, I can't get a goddamn good humbucking sound out of my Flying V--even after trying three pickups-- and it is frustrating as hell to play well, and then not have a good sounding guitar....but it's also newer, and my SG---which now seems to be my best sounding guitar--- was also new and inexperienced when I couldn't get a seemingly good tone out of it).
And then once you graduate to playing a better guitar or humbuckers (not to say that you can't stick with single coils.....I love the sound of single coils, but some guitars with 'em are really are pretty noisy, otherwise), you can get into string gauges, changing pickups, buying different guitars/ amps, and experimenting with tubes and pedals and whatnot. If you're even up for taking it further, you can even get as extreme as replacing the tone control/pots with ones of different resistances, or getting something like an Ibanez Tubescreamer re-chipped or modded. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 2:21:31 PM | We went out to the local pawn shops (4 in all) and out of what they did have, they were kind of overpriced for what you got. Especially considering you could just buy a decent guitar off the net for much less. Most of the pawn shops wanted 250 - 400 dollars for something you could get off the net for 160 or so and new at that.
I was kind of suprised, but we live in a small town, which might account for that.... less turnover and all.
I've been looking around ebay and other online sources, that seems to be the way to go, at least for our situation. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 3:19:14 PM | Hmmmm...
I reccomend the Yamaha Pacifica entry level strat style for my students: $166
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Yamaha-PAC012-Electric-Guitar?sku=511076
Or, the Peavey "tele" style. $209
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-Generation-EXP-Guitar?sku=511354
Looking around I spotted this, ...darn good value:$249
http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/Peavey-JF1-Hollowbody-Guitar?sku=511394X
Free shipping, with a full warranty.
Like I said, get a pitch pipe, not a tuner, you want to train your ears, a tuner gets in the way.
No need for an amp at first either, ...that can kinda' get in the way when you're starting too,
especially with "bad habits".
When you get something, contact me, I have some good learning materials. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 4:11:55 PM |
No need for an amp at first either, ...that can kinda' get in the way when you're starting too,
especially with "bad habits"
Nigel Tufnel (of Spinal Tap) said "Start playing loud when you're young, and you'll be one step ahead of the game. If you start off playing soft, it will get you into a lot of bad habits. Terrible, terrible, habits. Look at these jazz people. Of course they play soft. It's a trick so you can't hear them."
Mama let that boy play some rock and roll... | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 4:35:44 PM | I had a kid show up once with one of those DSP amps, all fuzzed out, with delay, verb, phasing.....
"I've been playing for two years, check this out! I got the TAB off the internet."
He was noodling away, some diadic fifths grunge thing going shwoooosh pling pling pling swoooooosh jugga jugga jugga meeedly meeedly meeeee shwoooosh pling pling pling swoooooosh jugga jugga jugga meeedly meeedly meeeee shwoooosh pling pling pling swoooooosh jugga jugga jugga meeedly meeedly meeeeeeeee! pling pling pling pling pling pling
I reached over, shut it off, and asked him to play something.
He couldn't.
He couldn't tell his guitar was out of tune.
Didn't know a single chord when asked to play it.
I took away his amp, tuner, ....and gave 'em back about four months later.
At that point he could tune his guitar, and play any chord by name, and improvise over chord changes.
That was over a year ago, he's playing in a southern-rock band now with one of my other old students. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 4:45:48 PM |
At that point he could tune his guitar, and play any chord by name, and improvise over chord changes.
So could I, and I was playing (mostly) through an amp.
I think the type of "music" he was trying to play was the problem. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 5:09:06 PM | I think the type of "music" he was trying to play was the problem.
Beginners with amps usually go straight to "mimic" learning, and rote/regurgitation style memorization.
Starting out without an amp promotes better touch, and dynamic sense way faster. Besides, when
someone is just learning, what's the need for anybody but themselves to hear them practice? An amp can be a
crutch, effects almost always are, especially when people are starting out.
Learning without an amp is way more efficient for the beginner, I have found that in all my years of teaching, the
people with amps take almost twice as long to clue in to the between the ears part of playing music.
I still don't use an amp to practice, no need for it.
Moreover, when the budget is small, sometimes the amp has to wait, and in this instance it just doesn't make sense to worry about an amp yet.
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 5:17:05 PM |
Learning without an amp is way more efficient for the beginner, I have found that in all my years of teaching, the
people with amps take almost twice as long to clue in to the between the ears part of playing music
Again, that depends on the type of guitar and the type of music. I know lots of kids who play electric (started with an amp) and they're doing great. I am really impressed with the wide range of musical tastes they have too. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 5:55:07 PM |
Again, that depends on the type of guitar and the type of music.
Hmmmm... well, I've never taught any "type" of music other than western theory, though I'm starting to get an understanding of micro-tonal Arabic theory.
As far as musical genres and styles are concerned, what someone wants to do in the context of "style" is immaterial to learning how to play music.
With a proper foundation in theory and technique, there are no barriers, save personal taste. This is how I approach teaching - barrier removal. To limit how you learn to only what is needed to be a "stylist", is to me, an exercise in self-limiting, not learning.
A lot of people who pick up guitar just to be able to strum a few three chord campfire songs can get away with never having to learn a thing about music. Every once in a while I get a person who "only wants to learn how to play insert catch-phrase here", more power to 'em, ....but I have to turn them down, as I only teach music. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 9:15:15 PM | I'm with LATE.
Definitely pitch-pipe and learn the basics before plugging in.
Gotta train the ears first.
Too much interference and technical stuff from the amp and head, and too much dependence on the
electronic tuners.
It's like that movie: Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure where they think they must have a most triumphant
video first...
Gotta learn that reading, writing music silliness too. The tab thing seems to lead to excessive noodling and
woodily woodily stuff, not really musical. When last I checked, at least all Western styles had the same notes
and symbols. Kudos to you LATE for taking the less travelled Eastern road.
I admit it...old school...I am. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 9:53:22 PM | Kudos to you LATE for taking the less travelled Eastern road.
In reality, the Arabic "rasts" actually mesh well with older "western" un-tempered register
intervalic relationships, in that the diatonic structures are related to keys.
There is a misunderstanding of quarter tone music, the thinking is that every scale has an "in between"
note within every semi-tone, ...not so.
It's more of an intonation thing, and can be done on guitar as well, and often is; when bending notes.
I became obsessed with being challenged by difficult pieces and the virtuosity of playing chord melody
jazz w/melody, fingerstyle impossibilities, and other gymnastic pursuits, but when it came down to it?
Understanding that ultimately, musicality is the goal, made me a better player, I use my ears to "play what
the song wants", ....and eschew the pretense of playin a part that says "look-it' me!", ...
This is the key to playing guitar, the other sruff is just musical masturbation.
Textures, and comping, ...a lost art.
I have to be able to play things, as a sideman, that already have direction. You have to crawl into the
songwriters head, find the song, and then even ignore the songwriter, ....and play what the song "wants".
Without the body of knowledge that music IS?
This is impossible, technical understanding isn't what rules, contextual elegance is.
But, the key to bliss here, is letting the song decide, and opening your mind to that......
So hard to put into words, rules, and/or guidelines.
This happens when music isn't something you do, it's something you surrender to.
It's a Zen thing mebbe'? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 10:11:13 PM | | howdy richard. darren(the giggleparts) told me he had asked you what's the best newbie guitar, and i tend to agree. we looked at those, and the cheap strats. ended up getting a yamaha pacifica paco12 for about 100, and an ibanez toneblaster 25 for about 63, with shipping for both. got them on ebay. i used to play, but can't anymore due to carpal/ulnar tunnel syndrome. played electric and classical acoustic. ever hear of elias barriero? he was my classical teacher in college. i played several other instruments, including flute, for a long time. learned to play by reading music, so really suck at playing by ear. have a good ear, as in can always tell if something is off, but can't tell sharp or flat. will be able to show darren things like theory(had three years college level), good hand position, stuff like that, but any help is appreciated. i don't have any of my books or music any more, because it was too depressing to keep them when i got to where i couldn't play any more. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 10:14:20 PM | I started on a acoustic went for music lessons the whole bit...Lost interest in guitars Boring
picked up a electric a small amp and a tuner started playin along to songs that I could play along with(hard to get the electric sound of a acoustic) It actually got me back into practicing and having fun with it , Key phrase there having fun with it. Which is the real reason a person should be buying a guitar.
My opinion if you want to spend money on something. Spend it on something you want.Not what other people think you want.... Personally I find acoustics hard on my fingers
my Version of what ya should do...Buy a cheap used electric, amp & tuner learn some bar chords and have fun ...practice will come from naturally. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 10:31:07 PM | My opinion if you want to spend money on something. Spend it on something you want.Not what other people think you want.... Personally I find acoustics hard on my fingers
One of the reasons electrics are more efficient for learning music
my Version of what ya should do...Buy a cheap used electric, amp & tuner learn some bar chords and have fun ...practice will come from naturally.
Here's where I really agree with, "Not what other people think you want...."
"Barre" chords are useless for learning chord formulas, fact is; if you can do the alphabet to "G", and count to 7, all it takes is understanding three simple rules, and there's no chord in existence that you can't play, regardless of position, etc.
Barre chords promote amusicality, and linear progression.
This is fine if you want to be locked into being a hack stylist, ...but it means unlearning the mundane in order to be able to play with musicality.
And the fact of the matter is, ...all your tab shortcuts, and chord diagrams, don't help.
Counting to seven and alphabet to "G" opens up a world of no restrictions, no dependance on laziness.
I take this seriously, anybody who wants to learn, regardless of age?
....can master it in a matter of months, if they apply themselves to a simple but complete method,
.....listening to people who give their point of view that makes no sense to a person who's played for
almost 40 years leads me to:
How does your advice help giggleparts?
And, Why? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 10:38:10 PM | ^^^agrees with this. you really need to learn how music works. bar chords are useful, but if that's all you know, then you aren't going to get very far, especially if you want to write anything. you need to learn the right way to play, before you learn the lazy way, to avoid picking up bad habits and limiting yourself. richard, did you see my last post? page before this.
edit: if an acoustic hurts your fingers, it probably has more to do with the strings than the guitar. any strings are going to hurt till you build up the calluses though. if you were bored playing an acoustic, then you had a boring teacher. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 11:16:03 PM | any strings are going to hurt till you build up the calluses though.
Callouses = bad technique/wrist posture
39 years, no callouses - me
howdy richard. darren(the giggleparts) told me he had asked you what's the best newbie guitar, and i tend to agree. we looked at those, and the cheap strats. ended up getting a yamaha pacifica paco12 for about 100,
Bonus! good choice.
and an ibanez toneblaster 25 for about 63, with shipping for both. got them on ebay.
Dump the toneblaster, it's a boat anchor.
i used to play, but can't anymore due to carpal/ulnar tunnel syndrome. played electric and classical acoustic. ever hear of elias barriero? he was my classical teacher in college.
Wow! Barriero? ....well known classical/bossa nova, teacher ...neat!
I have ulnar nerve damage myself, left elbow-hand, damned near crippled me, half my left hand feels novacained, I've learned to live with it, the surgical procedure is just too invasive, and has such a low % of recovery. I just try to maintain a >90 degree angle on that elbow ALWAYS, ....I haven't got all the feeling back, but I'm able to play.
i played several other instruments, including flute, for a long time. learned to play by reading music, so really suck at playing by ear. have a good ear, as in can always tell if something is off, but can't tell sharp or flat. will be able to show darren things like theory(had three years college level), good hand position, stuff like that, but any help is appreciated. i don't have any of my books or music any more, because it was too depressing to keep them when i got to where i couldn't play any more.
I'll give you my email when you drop a line into my inbox darlin', we'll fix ol' GP up good.
I think this might be a piece o' cake, easy as pie, ...after all, we speak the same language.
Okay thread! this one's done. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 11:40:39 PM | ya he was boring... I'm not knockin your point of view just stating that music should be fun
if regimenting yourself works for you go with that. I don't really care if I go far or anywheres for that matter. I play for myself...
1 more thing if you think I don't have callouses or only know bar chords you would be wrong.
sorry don't read music or bother with tab It's mostly by ear and feel
oh ya don't really buy the whole master the guitar and write music in a couple of months thing | |
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