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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/3/2006 11:56:31 PM | what's wrong with the tonemaster? never used one, but have used other ibanez products, and they are ok. the amp was cheap, which is what i was going for. was looking for something like a little gorilla, but there wasn't one at the time.
btw richard, you have mail. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/4/2006 12:08:06 AM | ya he was boring... I'm not knockin your point of view just stating that music should be fun
Like anything, if you know what it is yer doin? fun is increased.
if regimenting yourself works for you go with that. I don't really care if I go far or anywheres for that matter.
If you want to speak a language, learning the vocabulary, grammar, spelling, ...goes a long way, avoiding the pitfalls of error kinda' helps too.
I play for myself...
And who doesn't?
1 more thing if you think I don't have callouses or only know bar chords you would be wrong.
Callouses are unnecessary, and frankly, ....a sign you're doing something wrong.
sorry don't read music or bother with tab It's mostly by ear and feel
Cool, ....theory and reading don't preclude feel, they just make you better at it.
oh ya don't really buy the whole master the guitar and write music in a couple of months thing
I fire students who don't get it by three months, .....mastering? ......that's something you're judged for after you're dead.
How hard can counting to 7, and ABCDEFG be?
Add 3 rules and you've mastered all harmony/melody, as far as assymetrical is concerned, symetrical takes two more rules and yer done. cake n' pie.
I suppose it depends on how contrary a soul wants to be......
what's wrong with the tonemaster? never used one, but have used other ibanez products, and they are ok. the amp was cheap, which is what i was going for. was looking for something like a little gorilla, but there wasn't one at the time.
OMG Gorrila? ......we have to talk.
I'll fix you up, NO AMP, is best to start, trust me........ we'll take this off the forum now.
There's a "Learning guitar" thread, ....this one's for gear junkies | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/4/2006 12:11:26 PM | Callouses = bad technique/wrist posture
39 years, no callouses - me
Then you aren't playing with the passion I do. And yes, I am very dynamic in my playing.
Callouses are unnecessary, and frankly, ....a sign you're doing something wrong.
That is HUGE load of it. Same with the part about learning with no amp. I am surprised someone thinks they are experienced enough to pidgeon-hole like that. Music is an open expression without rules. There are maps, but no rules.
I play a lot, have done for 33 years, and yes I have callouses (sp?). | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/4/2006 3:59:50 PM | | has enyone tryed digitech multi-effects type peddles i just want to know if there enygood before i go pick one up or would it be better to buy seprate effects peddels? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/4/2006 4:27:18 PM | | if you are talking about the same one i have, it's kind of a pain in the ass. it's not really big enough, so if you aren't paying close attention, you turn it over or step on the wrong thing. the effects are so-so. it is cheap, though. mine is about eight inches by eight inches, and has four step switches. twenty programmable banks, and a few presets. i use it for vocals. at least it's easy to program. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/4/2006 6:37:10 PM |
Then you aren't playing with the passion I do. And yes, I am very dynamic in my playing.
Bullshit, it's physics:
Let's see, ....you push a string down so it's "stopped" by the fret, if you don't push the string with enough force, the note is muted. If you use more than the necessary force, the note will go sharp by a few cents, just enough and you have a clean note. . The actual force needed is very slight. To observe the slight amount of force required, use a pencil with a soft pink eraser.
More physics, and some physiology:
Proper wrist posture is key in being able to use the first and second joints of the thumb (distal and proximal phalanx), and the third joint (metacarpal), which is the most muscled part of the palm of the hand. these areas, known as the "thenar group", are best suited to act as de facto fulcrums, also best suited for applying the force required, which is, BTW, ....very slight.
Improper wrist posture is not only a impedence to leverage, it also often causes the repetitive strain injury known as carpal tunnel syndrome.
More physics, and some physiology, and ERGONOMICS:
The muscles of the four fingers ["hypothenar muscles" the 5th or little finger, and "short finger muscles" affect mostly digits 2-5 (index finger- little finger), and the "extrinsic group", that control all four], are where fine motor control comes into play, with improper technique, the fingers are often used to "press down" the strings, this is vastly inefficient in terms of both physics and physiology. When the fingers are focused on holding and changing positions laterally over the two axes grid of the fret board, very little force is needed, callouses are avoided (unless there is some endogenic deficiency, or enzime deficiency due to aging, if so, see a dermatologist). With proper technique, the skin of the pads of the fingers should become more robust, and even slightly "thicker" feeling, yet still "smooth", ...not forming callouses, which are also a source of unwanted string-noise.
"Callouses = bad technique/wrist posture"
Guess what? If you are forming callouses (for "sp?" check the dictionary), on the pads of your fingers for 33 years, you are not playing with proper technique, period, end-of-story. Callouses via "passion", is a sreaming load of bovine excreta, ...not to mention a "post hoc ergo propter hoc" fallacious means to imply that I have no "passion". So? Sorry, ...no sale.
As for callouses on the left hand having anything to do with dynamics? Physics says: Bullshit.
Dynamics are determined by right hand attack, again whether you use a pick, nails, or the pads of the fingers, if you're getting callouses on your right hand? Again = bad technique.
That is HUGE load of it. Same with the part about learning with no amp. I am surprised someone thinks they are experienced enough to pidgeon-hole like that.
As I have been teaching guitar for as long as you've been playing it, is that enough? Many of my students are gigging musicians and/or post-grad music teachers with; wrist problems, carpal nerve injury, and callouses, and needed to learn how to play correctly in regards to posture and ergonomics.
The "no amp" thing is based on decades of teaching, and observing what works, and what doesn't in getting people to learn how to play guitar. I am not basing any of my advice on; whim, opinion, or anything other than the empirical.
You?
Music is an open expression without rules. There are maps, but no rules.
Your reply is to a comment I made about technique, in case you don't understand what I mean by this?
Technique
n 1: a practical method or art applied to some particular task 2: skillfulness in the command of fundamentals deriving from practice and familiarity.
Q.E.D. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 12:55:35 AM | late is right about wrist position causing problems. it was playing a flute for too long that ****ed up my hands. i have carpal and ulnar syndrome because good posture for playing a flute puts serious strain on your wrists, kinda like typing on a straight keyboard, as opposed to a split one. most guitarists sling their guitar waaaay too low, cause it looks cool i guess. my teachers were pretty rabid about having it up high enough, and having the neck closer to your ear than most people play it. have you ever seen how "fieldy", formerly of korn, played? that's what i'm talking about. looks funny, feels a lot better.
i'm also with him on the amp thing. if you have a quiet enough environment, so you can hear the guitar without the amp, you can tell if you are in tune a lot easier, and you can get more of a feel for the subtleties of the sound. if you want to hear what i mean by subtle, listen to the great god david gilmour. you can take one of his solos and play the notes, but if you don't have a feel for the nuances, you will never be able to get close to the sound he does. if your practice environment is too noisy to go unplugged, then play clean. you can add effects when you know what you are doing. you can only really tell what you are playing if there are no effects. barriero wouldn't even let me bring an electric guitar near him. learn to play an acoustic forst. you don't need an amp, the guitars are usually cheaper for a decent one, and you can learn to fingerpick, which makes it a lot easier to learn with a pick. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 9:05:25 AM | With proper technique, the skin of the pads of the fingers should become more robust, and even slightly "thicker" feeling, yet still "smooth", ...not forming callouses, which are also a source of unwanted string-noise
This has nothing to do with proper technique, it comes from PLAYING. Call it what you want, I thought they were callouses. Thicker, smooth? Yes.
Ask Billy Gibbons or Eric Clapton or B.B. King if they have "callouses", they would probably say yes.
Nothing personal, Late, but you have the biggest head (not physically) I have encountered in many, many years. It isn't refreshing, and I do respect intellect. Why don't you write "The Book of Everything"? Send me a signed copy and I'll keep it for the museum so future generations can find their way. It should come with a wheel barrow and a shovel I guess. Ad nauseum... | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 10:30:22 AM | Nothing personal, Late, but you have the biggest head (not physically) I have encountered in many, many years.
The "nothing personal" disclaimer followed by a personal attack, how refereshingly unexpected... It isn't refreshing, and I do respect intellect. Why don't you write "The Book of Everything"? Send me a signed copy and I'll keep it for the museum so future generations can find their way. It should come with a wheel barrow and a shovel I guess. Ad nauseum...
You attack what I have to say, and me, and have nothing to base it on except insults, and what is explicitly logical fallacy. I have yet to read a reply from you, denigrating something others have said, that actually bears even a passing semblence of reasoned discourse, ...just strawman and red herring arguments, and empty baseless opinion, as is evidenced in the above quoted text.
This has nothing to do with proper technique, it comes from PLAYING. Call it what you want, I thought they were callouses. Thicker, smooth? Yes.
(sigh) There is a difference between the two, robust skin pads from proper technique do not tear, or feel rough to the touch. Those who play with less than ideal wrist posture and technique almost always develop the latter, resembling the type of callous that appears on the soles of the feet.
By correcting technique, callouses can go away in a matter of weeks. This isn't an opinion based on whim, or guessing, ...I've seen it happen, time and time again with new students I have taught who have sometimes been playing for decades.
I try to pass on information based on empirical observation, to a friend who's just starting out, and this angers you, why?
Check into the data on musicians who play chordaphone instruments, who develop repetitive stress injuries due to lousy technique, it isn't rare, in fact it's quite common. Some technique deemed proper, i.e. the Segovia method, is almost gauranteed to have higher instances of wrist and finger problems due to the dogmatically preferred angle and posture of both the right and left wrists. This has been noted by those in the Medical field, in particular kinesthologists and physiotherapists, ....
A person bases their advice on avoiding KNOWN problems, on reasoning which can be substantiated, while you chose to frame your responses from the perspective of speculation borne of a subjective sense of entitlement, and fallacy; in particular the strawman fallacy, inevitably followed by an ad hominum attack, ...expect to be called on it.
Ask Billy Gibbons or Eric Clapton or B.B. King if they have "callouses", they would probably say yes.
Then ask them how many students they've observed this with, sheesh! your replies are a veritable plethora of fallacies, almost like a primer, this one BTW is called "Fallacious Appeal to Authority".
If you’re a guitar player who has less movement you will naturally have less friction and tension and therefore less chance of injury.
You need to be aware of your posture and hand position especially as a beginner or intermediate as you are learning habits that will last a lifetime.
- Learning Classical Guitar
Many musicians have heard horror-stories about comrades who were excellent performing artists until they developed a repetitive strain injury to the arm or hand. Then their career either temporarily stopped or was finished due to this debilitating injury.
-Dr. Timothy Jameson
I´m a classical guitarist from Sweden that has, because of too much practising and tension, got Carpal Bossing (Carpe Bossu) in my both hands. Carpal Bossing is an ossification of the joints between the secound and third metacarpalbone proximally to the two Carpal bones Trapezoid and Capitate.
I´ve stoppet playing about three mounth ago and I think that my career is totally ended. That because it hurts in my hands even when I do normally daily uses. I have tried to play some since then, but the thing is, that it gets worse.
I have talked to many music pedagogues and doctors and I think that I now know what to do. First of all I`m going to change my technique. I´m going to try everything from realaxation and Alexander Technique to psychological aspects of the problem. I have an extensive work in front of me.
Then if I still can´t play I´m going to make a surgery at the best handsurgery clinic in my country.
- Guitar Notes
I'm not making this up. Improper posture and technique have a systemic result that's predictable, and is almost always involving a synonymous set of symptoms. Developing hard calloused skin on the pads of the left-hand fingers is almost always correspondent with bad tecnique associated with improper posture that causes much more serious injuries to nerves and tendons of the wrists. Moreover, I base my advice, not on just subjective personal experience, but from the reality of SEEING it in countless students over many decades.
I learned this one the hard way when I was 12, I was already playing gigs, and had done a few studio calls at this point in my life, I had callouses, CTS, and the bad technique that caused them. The CTS was getting to be a serious problem as I was losing feeling and dexterity in my left hand.
Speaking with a guitar player/physician/father of a friend of mine set me straight, he explained things to me, and it basically came down to, "If it hurts, you're doing it wrong".
Had I not followed his advice, I probably would have had to stop playing before I was 16.
As it is now, I have an injury to the cubital tunnel in my left elbow from "bad technique" at the keyboard of my computer. It became so severe that after about two years of it steadily getting worse, I completely lost the use of my ring and pinky fingers of the left hand due to ulnar nerve damage.
Correcting the posture that caused the nerve damage, only gave me back the use of the fingers, I still have very little feeling in half of the hand, and it's likely not ever going to fully recover, and surgery only gives you a 20% chance of recovery, and it's nasty surgery.
http://catalog.nucleusinc.com/enlargeexhibit.php?ID=13837&TC=&A=2
As is the surgery to correct CTS, which also is a hit and miss solution
Have a look:
http://www.eatonhand.com/complic/figures/ctpus.jpg
So go ahead and preach the "no rules" gospal all you want, but don't expect to do so to beginners here without someone coming along and warning people of the potential consequences of your advice.
This topic is hijacking this thread, if proplr want to discuss this, take it to the thread where it's already a topic of discussion: Learning To Play Guitar
(...and quit hijacking this thread)
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 12:12:09 PM | | I've been messin around with an acoustic, i found for learning, I used the light bronze strings, just a tad easier on the fingers, it's the whole left hand dexterity thing i have probs with, air guitar was a lot easier. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 1:40:00 PM | i have an old MusicMan tube amp... which just pumps it out.
my electrics...
i have two fenders.
a strat... and a tele... both black.
acoustics...
i have a 64 gibson hummingbird.
and a framus 12 string.
those are my babies.. :) | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 8:48:02 PM | I would like to post a apology...for my part in kinda derailing this thread I did not intend for this to happen as this is a gear thread after all.
I was just trying to voice my opinion on using a electric over a acoustic, And quite poorly I mite add. (Have 2 acoustics and that was money wasted in my opinion.)
again my apologises, js | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 9:00:07 PM | Until recently I had an almost new Gibson Explorer and a brand new Marshall MG100DFX, awesome sound and loud. Then was the dumbest thing i've ever done...sold them to make a payment on a vehicle I no longer have The guitar bar none was the best i've ever played and the combo was kick ass. Anyways when my grandma died, she left me her Winston guitar. It is electric, white, short style neck, either polished stainless steel or chrome pickgaurd and pickups and probably made in the late 60's - early 70's. I have searched the net for this guitar and have come up with nothing. Any ideas of the value of this or anything about Winston? I will never sell it and will hand it down to a trusted family member when I die. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 9:13:33 PM | | just found a yamaha g225 classical acoustic on ebay for a little over 100. kinda scared of the whole buying online thing with a guitar. hope the neck is ok. i think if you really hated playing an acoustic, that could be because you didn't have good music to play, or you had a guitar with the action too high for comfort. i like it low myself, partly because of the hand injuries. as long as there's no fret buzz, it makes it much easier. ever try any latin classical? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 9:38:03 PM | Speaking of gear, I think one of the reasons that electrics are a better choice for "first guitar", is that the entry-level instruments, even ones at the -$200 level can be close in playability to their 10X more expensive cousins. Entry level electrics can also be upgraded with better hardware and electronics making them suited to any level of use. For learning how to play, an entry level electric can be as playable as the highest priced custom instruments provided they are set up well.
It's the amplifier that carries the burden of tone here, and this is where the good stuff gets very pricey. But, holy grail amps don't help you learn the basics anyway.
Entry level flat-top acoustics on the other hand, are "disposable", there's no real upgrade path, and whatever limitations the instrument has for playability and tone, are there for the life of the instrument. Finding an acoustic that has the dynamic range, tone pallette, and playability of a primo '40s or '50s Martin is near impossible at less than $3000, and even hit and miss at that price point.
The biggest drawback to acoustic guitars is the "discouraging" factor, they are physically harder to play, this makes progress a harder row to hoe. This is magnified when you look at the state of quality of acoustics even at the $500-$1000 price point. Often parents buy their children "student" model nylon string acoustics with 2X4 necks that I can't even play, I don't pull punches with them on this one. I let them know that they're likely setting up their kids to fail, as the chances of them getting any pleasure out of the satisfaction of learning, discovery, and the self actualization that comes with learning an artistic skill are slim to none.
To combat this, I went down to a local music store where I know the managers for over 25 years, and looked at the consistancy of quality in the entry-level electrics. And settled on two, both purchaseable for less than $200.
Peavey Generation (Tele style)
Yamaha Pacifica (Strat style)
I had a printed out card with the two managers names, and the models of guitar reccomended, they take the card to the store and the store's guitar guys go through the stock of isntruments and pick out the best of the bunch, and they tack on a free strap, gigbag, and a pitch pipe.
The amp comes along about three to four months doen the road, same deal at the store. I try to steer them towards either a Peavey Delta Blues 115, a Fender Blues Junior, or a used small tube combo.
These are starting to interest me though:
http://www.zzounds.com/item--EPIEPAEMJRH
Add a small 1X12 cab, and the kid's ready to cut heads......... | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 9:47:35 PM | I absolutely love acoustic guitars and the classical repertoire,even though i have and play a bunch of electrics and play a lot of rock and metal with effects pedals.
There is nothing like just grabbing your acoustic wherever you lie and churning out "Malanguena" or "Bourree in e minor" or "classical gas" or your own classically inspired composition.
I am relatively new to classical guitar technique though(just the last few years).
I wouldn't mind getting a classical guitar specifically for that purpose as i have only been playing on steel string acoustics.
What would be a good purchase that I wouldn't have to take out a mortgage on my house to buy? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 10:15:10 PM |
The biggest drawback to acoustic guitars is the "discouraging" factor, they are physically harder to play, this makes progress a harder row to hoe. This is magnified when you look at the state of quality of acoustics even at the $500-$1000 price point. Often parents buy their children "student" model nylon string acoustics with 2X4 necks that I can't even play, I don't pull punches with them on this one. I let them know that they're likely setting up their kids to fail, as the chances of them getting any pleasure out of the satisfaction of learning, discovery, and the self actualization that comes with learning an artistic skill are slim to none.
LOL Yeah no kidding.My first guitar was a little sears acoustic that i needed a monkey wrench to play when i was 7.It was discouraging at first,but mostly because i lived in a little town with no one to teach me.Then i graduated to a no-name electric japanese strat copy with a "Plywood" body(LOL) and i didn't get an amp until a year later.
Thankfully i aquired better equipment since then,but i guess the point is the love of music in me was strong and nothing not even crap equipment or idiot instructors could ever wane that desire to play.
But alas some people really do just want to belt out some party tunes,so for them i guess it would be discouraging. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/5/2006 10:30:36 PM | The only classical I ever owned was a Giannini Craviola.
It looked like something out of an acid trip, but it played and sounded fantastic, very clear balanced tone through the whole fingerboard. I traded a Hagstrom III electric for it, oh, ...back in '76. Brazillian Rosewood body, breathtakingly beautiful figured wood. It got tempertantrumed by an old girlfriend I was living with when I was 16, it met its end off of our apartment balcony.
A Brazillian company, Giannini is exporting guitars again after being off the market in N. America for a long time.
I may pick one up again someday, just cuz.
http://www.giannini.com.br/eng/imagens/novosite/handcrafted/gwncra-p-p.jpg
i guess the point is the love of music in me was strong and nothing not even crap equipment or idiot instructors could ever wane that desire to play.
That's the "slim", in "slim to none". | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/6/2006 8:27:15 AM |
they're likely setting up their kids to fail, as the chances of them getting any pleasure out of the satisfaction of learning, discovery, and the self actualization that comes with learning an artistic skill are slim to none
a Peavey Delta Blues 115, a Fender Blues Junior, or a used small tube combo
I agree 100% on these points. Let the angels sing, and pass the guitar picks! Hallelujah!!
I have always used an A440 tuning fork to tune my guitars. Tune the A string then tune the other strings to each other. More accurate tuning will result from this because the design of the guitar is inherently untunable, and compromises have to be made. As long as the strings all sound good in relation with each other, you can play music without dragging your fingernails across a blackboard.
At a gig, you have to tune to the least tunable instrument, of course. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/10/2006 12:45:32 PM | I checked out that classical guitar late...it does look beautiful.I would of had a tantrum of my own if someone destroyed that on me i think.
Any idea of what it will be going for price wise?
I also checked out that oud demonstration several posts back.
Its always cool to try your hand at other instruments,i wouldn't mind owning one myself.
I have noticed i have an affinity for russian music lately(Prokofiev etc.)and music with a russian influence.
Have you ever owned say a Balalaika or played one,and if so what do you think? | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/11/2006 7:52:24 PM | The Giannini is probably less than $600, ...foreign exchange rates are great with Brazil. Probably findable for under $400.
I've played Balalaika before, kinda' a 3 stringed uke.......
Two solid days of sessions on doing sessions on 4 different instruments, ...I'm dead tired
I checked out a Fulltone tremolo pedal last night, while I prefer "bias modulation" style trem, this pedal works as well as the newer Fender amp trem (um, newer = post '63), I think I'll pick one up.
Used it on my fretless contra-bass, ...killer. | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/18/2006 1:30:51 PM | Any of you kind fellas give me an opinion on these
http://www.soundclick.com/havoc51 | |
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| The guitar player's thread
Posted: 6/18/2006 3:09:58 PM | cool tracks spacedust
advice:
-icebreaker has a good drum level the other tracks, the drums were mixed to hot
-you have a good feel for melody, maybe focus on the rythmic execution a little more som of the phrases sounded a little' loosy goosy 'that way
I think you had some great melodic ideas
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