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| THE GUITAR PLAYER'S THREAD
Posted: 11/4/2006 7:40:04 PM | dark f5
hey dude , we live in the same city ...you should leave a message on my profile and you could come by and see my shop and the new and used pedals I carry.....
which alesis unit are you considering?
I think getting a tube amp would be the greatest improvement in tone for you
though they are less portable | |
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Posted: 11/5/2006 8:40:30 AM | Hmmmmm I'd like to check out one of those Tec21's .. any dealers in Toronto for those ?
Not very many dealers stock them, not even here in the States. I buy all my gear on line anyways. My guitar tech does all the setup work for me immeiately after I recieve them. The only Dealer that still had a couple in stock when I purchased mine was Zzounds.com. They sell VERY FAST. Checking the on-line music dealers is probably your best chance of finding one or call up Tech 21, they are NY based and ask if any dealers in your area carry them. There are quite a few models so make sure you get the Trademark 60. That is their flagship model. I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of both my tube amps, that's how good this thing sounds!!! Yeah i know, you guys are thinking "Blasphemy", but trust me on this, it has a better sound than the Fender Twin Reverb or any Marshall or Vox you a/b it against. | |
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Posted: 11/5/2006 8:49:08 AM | Hmmmmm I'd like to check out one of those Tec21's .. any dealers in Toronto for those ?
Steve's Music
Long & McQuade
Song Bird Sound
Twelfth Fret
What are you using now?
Ahhhhhhh...Super Champ.
Tech21 won't touch this.
Which speaker is in the SC? | |
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Posted: 11/5/2006 9:02:44 AM | | Yeah I've heard good things about the Champ also and played through one at Guitar Center. Cool lil practice amp and nearly bought one. But after playing the tech 21 it was a no brainer to me anyways. The knobs are extremely touch sensitive. Took me a week of fiddeling with it to get it down, but now nothing comes even close too this lil gem, plus it's only 36 lbs. Very easy on my back. I'm tired of lugging those 80 plus lbs around from gig to gig 3 or 4 times a week. | |
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Posted: 11/5/2006 10:41:09 PM |
Line 6? If you have the option, return it ASAP. I own a Fender DeVille 410 and a Special edition Tweed Fender Hot Rod Deluxe with Vintage 30s.
This question is to you and anyone else who has ever tried/played a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe... is it too loud for practicing? Even turned down? I find decent prices for this amp used. | |
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Posted: 11/6/2006 1:42:11 PM | Hi Alex,
Yeah, both the Hot Rod and DeVille models are much too loud for practice. Fender did a sneaky thing a while back on their tube amps. I'm not a tech but I'll try to explain it the best I can. Basically they put about 90% of the volume of these amps on the 1, 2, 3 and 4 on the the volume knob. Anything past 4 or 5 on the volume, you can barely hear the difference. The reason they did this according to my sources is a sales pitch in a sense. Walk into a music store, plug a guitar into it, turn up the volume to 1 so you don't disturb anybody and the volume is almost deafening. Turn it up to 4 and you'll be cracking windows...lol. Besides, who goes into a music store and cranks a 60 watt tube amp to 10, so you don't find this out untill you're either at home or doing a gig. So you think, man, this is one hell of a loud amp, louder than any other amp in the store including Marshalls and Hiwatts etc. I think I'll buy it. Sneaky but true.
There is a fix for this however but you have to take it to a tech and I think they either swap out the volume pot or make some adjustments to it to balance it out.
Tube amps don't make good practice amps anyways, they need to be cranked to get that creamy tube sound we all love. Exceptions are the Champ and a few other lower watt tube amps. I think the Champ is 12 watts or something like that. Gibson makes a 5 watter but costs more than 500.00 US and all you get is a volume knob...period! Anything above 10 or 12 watts is too loud for practice purposes.
Some folks buy attenuators and love them. I've tried them and quite frankly can't stand how they muddy the sound, almost like you threw a down comforter over the speakers...lol. To each their own I guess.
Hope this helped and if my explanation is a bit off I'm sure Guitarman or one of the other techs on here will correct me. | |
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Posted: 11/6/2006 2:08:56 PM | Thanks melody maker, for your feedback. Do you know the Fender Blues Junior? That amp is even cheaper and I suppose it's more suited to be a practice amp. I think it's overpiced in music stores but used, it's about 400 bucks. Is it worth it? I like tube amps and it's not like I can't have some volume. I want something portable so if it's tube, there is probably going to be occasions in which I'm able to crank it (depending on where I bring it). I don't want to spend anything over 100 bucks on a transistor amp. I don't really want to spend anything on a transistor amp, actually. They don't hold their value and unless you're using it 100% as a practice amp, I don't see why you'd choose one unless it's for monetary reasons.
Btw, I like Fender amps (or Traynor) for the clean and using pedals if any distortion is desired. I also think Marshall amps are good but not the MG series. The older ones. | |
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Posted: 11/6/2006 2:16:31 PM | purchase a fender or peavey tube amp with an efx loop
you can buy a little box with a volume knob on it.........it acts as a master volume
without the downsides of an attenuator
if that is true about 'the jumpy volume' on a tube amp.................
those amp designers suck | |
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Posted: 11/6/2006 2:45:27 PM | Ok here is the technical explanation and the Volume mod to fix this problem.
Here is a link to the site with all kinds of interesting info on this amp filled with tons of Mods and hints.
http://www.studentweb.eku.edu/justin_holton/
Master Volume Mod
"If you've read the Vanden Berg mods, you know that Fender uses a linear pot for the Drive channel instead of the practical logarithmic pot—often called "audio taper." Replacing the Master pot with a 500K log pot will tame the touchiness.This is done so shopping musicians will think the amp is more powerful than it is, (not that it isn't powerful). As a result the guitarist may be impressed enough to take the amp home. Once they get it home though, the novelty wears off and they find it's too loud for practice. How often do you hear Hot Rod owners gripe about how loud their amp is? The fact is, most of the volume increase occurs between 1 and 4 on the dial, and the remaining 8 notches result in little volume increase. It's somewhat of a marketing ploy, and the only thing that really annoys me about these amps. James Vanden Berg was the first person to point this flaw out and explain how to correct it.
Perceived Increase in Volume vs Actual Pot Resistance
Properties of linear potentiometers. Properties of logarithmic potentiometers.
Properties of Linear pots Properties of Audio-Taper pots
Replacing the stock master volume with an audio-taper is the best way to fix the oversensitive Master—as we can clearly see by the example above. If I remember correctly, the log pot on 4 is equal to the linear pot on 0.5! For those who don't know, twelve on the log pot is also as loud as twelve on the linear pot. If you buy a logarithmic pot, and put it in yourself, it'll probably be the most inexpensive fix. Just don't try to install it yourself unless you're comfortable.
Linear and log pots can be identified by their casing. Log pots will have "A250KO" printed on the rear, while linear pots will have "B250KO." I've also seen a few that have "C250KO" on them, but I honestly don't know what the C stands for. It's probably a combination of A and B.
Unfortunately installing this yourself will void your warranty. In the case that it's already voided, I have to personally recommend this over the volume box. Once I replaced mine I ditched the Volume Box, as I no longer found it useful. Remember, replacing the pot won't make power amp saturation any easier to achieve.
You must use a mini-pot when replacing the Master control! The regular sized pots used in guitars are far too large. Trust me, been there done that. I personally prefer the 500KO log over the 250KO, the transition is just smoother and tweaking is VERY EASY. I've had absolutely no problem dialing in that "perfect spot" on the master since installing the 500KO. I got my pot from AllParts, part # EP 0186-000.
The only negative aspect of the 500K is that it's difficult to install—I'm actually quite embarrased of the job I've done, but it works. Recently I've discovered that Antique Electronic supply offers a 250K audio-taper pot exclusively for the Hot Rod Deluxe/Deville amps. This is the exact pot that Fender uses for the volume control of the clean channel. If we were to do a neat job one might not even be able to tell the amp was modded at all."
There is much more to this explanation but I only copied what i believe to be the most important.
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Posted: 11/6/2006 3:19:55 PM |
Do you know the Fender Blues Junior? That amp is even cheaper and I suppose it's more suited to be a practice amp. I think it's overpiced in music stores but used, it's about 400 bucks. Is it worth it?
Alex, I'm not that familiar with them mainly because when I tried them out I was less than impressed by its tone. I buy Fender for their clean pristine tone, the blues Jr has too much crunch for my liking (after all, it is a blues amp). If you like crunch you will love this amp plus it's only 20 watts and much lighter than either the Hot Rod Deluxe or the DeVille.
Me I love using effects so Clean + Headroom is very important to me. Sorry I couldn't be of more help to you. | |
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Posted: 11/6/2006 6:13:32 PM | melody maker
thanks for the awesome fender tech site link
it was a good read and a cool site, it made me think about my peavey 6505 and doing a
master volume mod
[Your "underlines" are screwing up word wrap/late™] | |
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Posted: 11/6/2006 6:14:00 PM | melody maker
thanks for the awesome fender tech site link
it was a good read and a cool site, it made me think about my peavey 6505 and doing a
master volume mod
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Posted: 11/6/2006 11:23:59 PM | | I own a sans amp psa 1 and i use it mainly for recording> I've had this unit about 8 years now and I swear by it. I've never had a problem with it and I would highly recommend tech 21 products. Just my opinion but there you have it. | |
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Posted: 11/8/2006 9:26:35 PM | you guitar guys have to check this guy out
he is 36 from Moscow (a 5 minute video)
URL deleted - let's not have a youtube fest please/Forum Moderator
what do you guys think of this video
let's discuss?
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Posted: 11/9/2006 11:09:50 AM | Well he obviously has great technique,but it's fusion so it's definitely not for everyone.
Honestly I know better then to say it's bad perse,and i did find it interesting and somewhat of a welcome respite from the usual drek out there.I had flashbacks of Vernon Reid doing his cult of personality solo for some reason.I guess it's just the free flowing structuring of it all,but then that is the nature of fusion.
But...
Having said all that although i can respect it,I have to say i enjoy a bit more melodic infusion in guitar playing.I like George Lynch for example,who for some reason can play lots of tritones and minor 2nd intervals and chromatics,but still has this totally original sound and sense of melody and feel along with all the technique.At least to my ear.
I'd just like it better if this guy shaped his melodies more.Then out of nowhere started playing more loose so you would get more of the whoa factor.I just find it more effective that way.
You tend to get desensitized using nothing but the twelve tone method after awhile i find.
All in all he's a good guitar player and it is interesting,but i like a hook along with technique. | |
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Posted: 11/9/2006 11:25:21 AM | Great mix of Holdsworth, Morse, ....with hints of Beck bluesiness, ...but very little substance.
After awhile it just became sonic masturbation, ....there's no "story".
His tone was "ass" too.
Amp rant from the analog thread -
Guitar tone:
Digital modelling vs Tubes
Tubes always wins.
Why?
1) Amp modeling doesn't work, they model ONLY overt sonic characteristics, not interactive ones.
2) Absolutely no touch control (see "1")
3) They do not "scale", whatever sound you dial in at one level of SPL, will not translate to another.
4) If you've ever actually played through any of the amps that this toy claims to sound "just like", you
will laugh uncontrollably (if you try, not buy), or curse and scream (if you bought one).
5) A 50 watt tube amp on the same stage as a 300 watt modelling amp will make the "fake" disappear in the sonic landscape, ...these silicone chip puppies really don't "scale" sonically, ....it's impossible (at this stage of the game) to program in the myriad variables of the interaction of tube/transformer/fingers, .....no dynamics.
Reasons to buy one.
1) If you don't care what you sound like. (no ones going to hear you anyway)
2) If you are unfamiliar with tube amp interactive qualities and don't play with any dynamics anyway.
3)* It's almost "free" and you pick it up for sh!ts and giggles.
4) If you don't care what you sound like. (cause you never really did)
5) Most non-musicians won't notice the difference, if you don't care, and don't play with "touch" ....they won't care either.
Low volume alternatives for those "who care":
For a few years, some folks have been designing and building low power class "A" single ended tube amps at power ranges of .1 watt to around 3 watts. These little amps are great for practicing at low SPL and still getting great "cranked" amp tone without disturbing the neighbors. They react just the same as their bigger more powerful cousins.
- The same tonalities and timbres can be attained at lower SPL, this means that more mic headroom is accessable, mic fidelity isn't compromised by high SPL diaphram "warp", room reflections will have less standing waves and phase cancellation = no reverb necessary (for ambience), less compression needed.
Tube Amps -
The simpler the circuit, the better the tone.
Preamp gain is NOT the same as output saturation, even if it's a tube preamp, the resultant timbre is more square wave, and there is no "loading" effect via Speaker/Output Tranny/Output tubes via touch control.
Master volume = less touch control
More knobs = less tone
Various circuits yield different charactaristics of headroom, harmonic distortion, and range of "sweet spot".
Some defining "guitar" circuit types:
Class A (often claimed by amp manufacturers, seldom true)
Class A/B
Single ended
Push - Pull
B+ or not B+ negative feedback (The lack of which gives the AC30 it's distictive "bell-like" tone.
Type of Bias method - Grid/Cathode (New amps are often biased "cold" from the manufacturer to avoid replacing output tubes under warranty = shitty tone)
- Many amps which use "fixed" (negative grid) bias have provisions for adjusting the negative grid voltage upward or downward. Making the grids LESS negative will cause MORE current to flow through the tubes. Some amplifiers don't have a bias-adjusting control (pot) but instead use a fixed resistor to set the voltage. If you encounter one with a fixed resistor.
- Some amps have a "balance" type bias adjustment, which allows you to vary the negative grid voltage between the two halves of the output stage; this makes a "matched" set of tubes less crucial to good performance, although it can't compensate for tubes that are wildly different. If you encounter this circuit, the easiest way to adjust it is to simply "tune" the control for minimum 120Hz hum on the output. This type can be modded to the *best* type, which is not only variable from side-to-side, but adjustable up-and-down, too. Usually, this circuit will have the "balance" pot's wiper connected to a resistor which is grounded at the other end. You can replace this resistor exactly as outlined above (half the value, add a pot, etc.) and have the best of both worlds.
Some newer amps have "auto-bias", where the claim is "self-bias", but the amp will bias only within a fixed range.
SS. or Tube rectification (Rectifier is not in the signal path, but under load, a tube rectifier will cause the signal to "sag" somewhat)
Various tube types also have various characteristic tonality/timbres (dependant on circuit type)
Few amps, even tube amps are truely scalable as to sweetspot/SPL, a few are:
Maven Peel, London Power, Guytron (all muy $$$)
Some less desireable methods are:
Rockman Power Soak, the THD Hot Plate, the Weber MASS, and the Marshall Power Brake.- These are akin to controlling the speed of an automobile by flooring the accelerator and using the brakes to adjust speed = hard on the tubes, hard on the output transformers, hard on the circuit in general - often referred to as "tranny toasters"
AlNiCo speakers are best for guitars - wider frequency response (stronger lows), and colouration is more favorable than with ferrite or neodium magnets. They also interact better with the output tubes/transformer/speaker loading of the amp, which is controlled by your fingers.
Anything in the signal path between your guitar and the amp will negate touch control/feel and also often cause "tone suck". | |
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Posted: 11/9/2006 9:24:14 PM |
Just ordered the Fender Eric Johnson Signature Model Stratocaster. Did tons of research on it and finally made the call today. Should arrive at my house on Wed or Thurs. Man, I'm so psyched.......EARLY CHRISTMAS FOR GABRIEL
I want one of those guitars. EJ is a legend and one of my favourite players. Damn I would love to get ahold of one of those guitars, sadly though I would probably wind up shelling out 1800 dollars for one here. | |
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Posted: 11/11/2006 11:45:05 AM | you guitar guys have to check this guy out
he is 36 from Moscow (a 5 minute video)
URL deleted
what do you guys think of this video
let's discuss?
Wow, not sure where to start with this one. On a positive note he obviously knows his scales. Unfortunately there is much more to lead than playing scales. He does have speed but speed doesn't always equal good. Lead guitar in my mind consists of a number of things that need to be done in order to stand out and be a cut above the rest.
1: Melody - You want to create something memorable.
2: Balance - All the pieces of the solo need to fit together. Jumping up and down the fretboard eratically is not balance.
3: Say Something - Avoid musical mumbling. Find a musical idea and develop it. Tell a story with your lead.
4: In soloing, there are no wrong notes, just poor choices.
5: Speed - Only inspires and awes other musicians. Confuses the audience! Think of all the great guitar solos you've heard in your life. How many of them were built on speed? Very few. Make every single note count. Take a note and OWN IT!
Sorry, I've just heard way too many shredders and I'm tired of being PC. They all sound the same to me. Nothing but scales played at lightning speed. Sorry, not my thing....shrugs. | |
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Posted: 11/11/2006 7:08:15 PM | RE: Shredder video
I agree with some of the comments above about this guy from Moscow
I feel the same way
as a musician though I can appreciate the time it must of taken to get that precise as a player, to execute, or even concieve of some of those lines.
it is no different then listening to some old mahavisihnu stuff or dimeola
a lot of that stuff become overload after a just few minutes of listening
I have learnt to seperate different skill sets within guitar, and apprieciate them individually.
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Posted: 11/12/2006 4:56:43 PM | I want one of those guitars. EJ is a legend and one of my favourite players. Damn I would love to get ahold of one of those guitars, sadly though I would probably wind up shelling out 1800 dollars for one here.
Well I got mine on tuesday and simply haven't been able to put it down since. I own 8 guitars (3 of them being strats) this being my ninth and am seriously considering unloading them all except for my Fernadez and my Epiphone Masterbilt accoustic. It is worth every penny I payed for it and then some. Many strat players say it is the BEST strat ever made, even exceeds the Custom Shop models. I totally agree. I would describe it's sound as bell like or chimes. Every pickup on it is unique and very usable. Very easy to play chords and lead solos alike. A masterpiece in my mind.The pups are a bit noisey but hey, what do you expect from single coils? I've tried using noiseless strat pups but found that they make the sound very sterile and very un strat like.
I ordered the Black model but don't really like the white pickguard on it so I ordered a black pickguard that my guitar tech is going to replace for me. Going to have a similar appearance to David Gilmoure's black strat if you've ever seen a pic of it. VERY cool looking! | |
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mr x
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Joined: 3/6/2005
Msg: 1946 | |
| THE GUITAR PLAYER'S THREAD
Posted: 11/13/2006 6:27:34 AM | GuitarMan, thanks for the excellent thread.
Just wanted to throw out an idea that I have used to stabilize floating bridges. There were guys way early in your thread that you were recomending to block off their bridges. There's a product by a company called Hot Shots(I believe were bought out by Fender) that make a unit called a Trem-Setter. I have one in my Mexican Roland ready Strat and another in a heavily modded Godin G 2000.
Units sell at Long and McQuade in Ottawa for approx $50.00. My guy did the install with a set-up and new strings for about $40.00 more(charged by the hour).
This unit replaces the center spring on the whammy with a unit that returns to a fixed position. On my Godin, I have a Schaeller system with locking machine heads and the tremsetter works perfectly by both evening out string tension to keep the guitar in tune(and that's with heavy Van Halenesque dive bombing). And also the guitar stays about 95 - 98% in tune after a string breakage(so live...you can finish the tune).
With the regular machine heads on my Strat the effect is the same for string stability, but in the event of a broken string, the heads don't hold in tune quite as good.
Another kool feature about the Trem - Setter is that mine have been set up so I can still whammy up a couple of tones.
I should mention that I also installed Fender "Rollernuts" on both guitars, again tp maintain as even as possible tension and torque on strings in the event of severe whammying:-)
Not as cheap as blocking off, but a little more effective.
I've had American, Japanese, Korean and now a Mexican Strats. All the guitars have been unique. My Mexican is head and shoulders the best neck and fretboard of probably any guitar I have ever owned(Gibson, Roland, Godin, Ibanez, Beneteau, Ovation, Washburn, Taylor, Lado and I'm getting too cenile to remember the rest...l.o.l.).
Guitars are as unique as your personaity. If you find one that feels great and it's not going to break the bank...go for it. Thanks again. And have a great day.
Mr X | |
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Posted: 11/13/2006 11:57:53 AM | mr x
welcome to the guitar player thread
thanks for the post about the trem-setter
I had one of those on a strat back in the early 90's the are a cool device
my only gripe about them is that they don't allow you to have a smooth even tension
while doing a bar vibrato, inwhich you depress the bar and then slightly pull the bar sharp(repeat) similair to a blues style finger vibrato or what a player may do on a bigby tremolo
with a trem setter the push down is about twice the tension as the pull up
I found for my technique,it made slight bar vibrato difficult and not a very smooth transition.
they are a good choice for some players though | |
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mr x
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Joined: 3/6/2005
Msg: 1948 | |
| THE GUITAR PLAYER'S THREAD
Posted: 11/14/2006 7:36:35 AM | Thanks Guitarman,
I believe trem-setters are a standard item in the newer top-of-the-line American Strats(2nd hand info so not 100% sure). On my Godin I've done everything to try to have a fully effective whammy(primarily to stay in tune) without the locknut. In terms of changing strings and tuning having the scaheller locking heads+fender rollernut+ trem-setter it's virtually 100% effective. I've had some Kramers and a modified flying V with Floyd Rose's and overall you can't beat the floyd for whammy action.
Never really noticed the change in the feel on my axe's with the trem-setter but that's something I would have just adjusted my feel for playing anyhow.
This is a great thread man. Keep it coming. This rivals G-Player Mag anyday for good practical info.
Have a great day.
Mr X | |
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mr x
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Joined: 3/6/2005
Msg: 1949 | |
| THE GUITAR PLAYER'S THREAD
Posted: 11/16/2006 9:03:09 AM | GuitarMan,
Checked out MoscowDude on You Tube. Seeing some of the responses to that here on the site reminds me of the "How many guitar players does it take to change a lightbulb? All of them 'cause they can all do it better."
The guys great. If I am not mistaken there is a heavy jazz thing that's been going on in Ruski for quite some time. I think he is demonstrating a ton of jazz technique(not much bending,the types of scale patterns etc). He is great. I am more of a bluesy guy myself but I'd get this guys c.d. in a flash if it were out there.
Youtube and MyS**ce might well be the new millenium MTV. Don't feel shy to upload Dudes(ettes). I'm working on my mp3's and mpegs as we speak. Hope to see you all out there.
Mr X | |
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mr x
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Joined: 3/6/2005
Msg: 1950 | |
| THE GUITAR PLAYER'S THREAD
Posted: 11/16/2006 9:58:46 AM | Also thanks Melody Maker and Late for tech info regarding amps. Mucho info and appreciated much. I should however mention my perspective why I chose a Flextone III(w shortboard) over a 50 watt Tremoverb(Boogie) recently.
Technically I totally agree with Lates assesment of tube vs modelling. But to start off I use up to 7 different guitars live right now. They all would've sounded great through the Boogie. But there will be fluctuations in signal output with say my Strat vs my Ovation Celebrity.
Being able to program patches and banks and having an independent line out has meant I have programmed my e.q. ing and outputting(through my L'il behringer mixer) to P.F.L. all my outputs to zero. I can monitor my tone "accoustically(main volume out put through speakers)" and with phones(in the Behringer mixer) to monitor my line signal. This gives "FrontOfHouse" guy a mucho easier time "riding" the guitar in the mix(and since 3/4's of the time that's me on stage mixing I can focus on my performance). This also gives the amp independence from the mix(basically becomes a monitor) freeing me to adjust my stage volumes at will(when I'm just using the independent balanced out from the amp).And trust me, when you have the time to properly edit your tones, the end result is formidable.
Also with the floorboard I have access to signal boost for leads(clean and dirt), modulation(allsorts tremelo, deadly flange, chorus, phaser etc), delays(w tap to play tempo to live), reverbs and a volume wah(and don't forget the tuner).
Along with access via a midi soundcard(for me M-Audio 410 with a modified IMac G4) to the usergroup's shareware of tones and banks on the internet and voila I'm "virtually" in tone heaven. Like I originally said in a totally controlled studio environment Lates assesment is correct(with 1 axe into 1 amp). But if there are external effects there will also be compounded effects of line/signal noise as well.
For me I combine that with a Roland Gr20(which can MIDI into my Mac...but that's a whole new subject) and my only limitations with the corelation of tone vs tecnique is my imagination(you haven't lived until you've triggered farm animal samples with yer axe!).
Line 6 guys you can get in touch with me through my profile for renumeration...:-)
Once again, Have a GREAT day.
Mr X | |
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