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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 151 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/22/2006 8:04:36 PM |
Oh how I beg to differ.......please NEVER even imply that it is important to my faith that other faiths be marginalized.
Imply?
The best explanation I can give those that don't understand ppl that are offended by the CHANGE to Happy Holidays is this....when you change something, something has to go away.
How is Christmas excluded from a word that means "Holy Days"? AND, is inclusive of all faiths?
I live quite comfortably nestled among ppl of a variety of beliefs.
Really?
I mean, if we are suppose to be so understanding of Muslims praying to Allah at the gate before boarding a flight, surely all of you open-minded folks can accommodate us Christians by allowing us to use the term "Merry Christmas"......ya think?
Um, "suppose to be so understanding"? this is "comfortably nestled"?
Who said you can't say merry Christmas?
When did all of this lobbying take place?
You really think this thread is unique?
I must have missed the memo.
Watch the news, read a paper, ...surf the net. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/22/2006 8:16:41 PM |
Personally it offends me that they even consider such a thing....I'm not at all the perfect Saint by no means nor do I pretend to be but the Purpose of Christmas the true meaning of it is to Celebrate the birth of Jesus!!!
Either simply remove religion from the state affairs. Or just make it all religious. Pick one. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/22/2006 9:13:12 PM | Do I owe anyone £200 yet ? Didn't think so !
No you don't,it is safe. You will never owe it to anyone for it is not in the bible.
Christmas and Easter are old Roman holidays.Man made. There is no such thing as either one to be celebrated by the church that Jesus built. We are to celebrate his death but it is not called easter. Christmas , the 25th of Dec. is not the birthday of Christ. Jesus was born after John,Mary told Elizabeth that she was pregnate when Elizabeth was carring John and the amount of months later would put Jesus's birth in Sept. Christmas is a time of year for people to enjoy life and others. A happy time and generally pretty peacefully,. I see nothing wrong with celebrating it ,as long as it is not celbrated as Jesus's birthday. That is what I get from reading the bible. Course everybody has a right to believe what they want. I will still say Merry Christmas,but I have no problem with others doing their own thing.
 to all. Have a happy, healthy New Year All! | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 154 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/22/2006 10:04:10 PM | Of course, Othodox Ukrainians celebrate Christmas on January 7th, and New Years on Jan. 13. Chinese New Year (of the Pig) is on Feb 18 .... no worries.
I want the best for the whole planet, all who dwell on her, every day of the year.
...Peace on Earth, goodwill to all mankind.
Best wishes of the season!
I don't even need a God to inspire me to want this passionately, and with all of my heart.
Merry Chrismahannakwanzadwaleidyuleesolistafestivus!
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/22/2006 10:53:39 PM |
It excludes no one.
sure it does, it may be offensive to those who don't celebrate holidays at all. What do you think of this?
Etymology - "Holy Days"
.....nobody excluded
again, those who don't celebrate "holy days", should they have to listen to happy holidays?
Yes it does, ..."slippery slope" is a fallacy BTW.
In your eyes, everything is a fallacy, i think you like that word.
Why is it so important to your faith that other faiths MUST be marginalized?
No one should be marginalized, but why now, 10 years ago nobody gave a rats ass about saying Merry Christmas, I don't even see anyone complaining about it until the media started reporting how stores changed their policies. I went to school with people of different faiths, they never complained, they joined in. So why now? Times changed? Fine, but is this really happening or is it the media and the politically correct aka fearful government?
I've not ever met anyone who gets opffended by this, have any of you? | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 6:05:22 AM | | I agree....I'm a Christian, however, if during the holidays someone were to say "Happy Hannakuh" to me, rather than fly into a seizure and hit speed dial on my phone to contact the ACLU.....I'd think...."Thanks, how nice." A little bit of hypersensitivity seasoned with disgust for Christianity..... | |
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e-wok
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Joined: 9/25/2006
Msg: 157 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 7:31:07 AM | I've never had somebody fall into a fetal position sucking
their thumbs after I wished them a Merry Christmas.
I think largely this is media-hype and if I should ever cross such a person,
I will apologies (I'm sorry you're such a dufuss!). This particular season, I was surprised by how many
people wished me a Merry Christmas....so far only 2 wished me
Happy Holiday's but both were nice to hear and both were a
gesture of good will.
JC does not strike me as a man who'd celebrate his own birthday and it's
mostly us mortals who feel the love to celebrate it. I think when we
wish somebody a Merry Christmas, it is the joy we feel of his birth and
sometimes forget there are people none to pleased with who JC
represents. It's they that should appreciate that generally the Christmas
season is a time for joy - just stop being losers about it and attempting
to take that away from the people. I'd wish somebody a Happy Kwansa if
I knew what that was....really, I don't know...same for Hannucka. It's
a gesture more than anything...nobody's asking you to convert! Well, maybe
some but mostly not. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 158 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 9:00:19 AM | sure it does, it may be offensive to those who don't celebrate holidays at all. What do you think of this?
It's inclusive, in north America it IS a stat holiday season.
hol·i·day /'h?l??de?/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[hol-i-dey]
–noun
1. a day fixed by law or custom on which ordinary business is suspended in commemoration of some event or in honor of some person.
2. any day of exemption from work (distinguished from working day).
3. a time or period of exemption from any requirement, duty, assessment, etc.: New businesses may be granted a one-year tax holiday.
4. a religious feast day; holy day, esp. any of several usually commemorative holy days observed in Judaism.
5. Sometimes, holidays. Chiefly British. a period of cessation from work or one of recreation; vacation.
6. an unintentional gap left on a plated, coated, or painted surface.
–adjective
7. of or pertaining to a festival; festive; joyous: a holiday mood.
8. suitable for a holiday: holiday attire.
again, those who don't celebrate "holy days", should they have to listen to happy holidays?
Again, observe "meaning[s]" and the defintition of I N C L U S I O N
In your eyes, everything is a fallacy, i think you like that word.
Ahhh... right on time, everything isn't a fallacy, ...only bullshit arguments are.
It is a specific by definition, and polite way of calling; "bullshit". The difference is, it points out the exact "bullshit" behind a dishonest, or ignorant argument/statement by describing why it's, "bullshit".
Not everything is bullshit.
No one should be marginalized, but why now, 10 years ago nobody gave a rats ass about saying Merry Christmas, I don't even see anyone complaining about it until the media started reporting how stores changed their policies.
Yes, all of the sudden a courtesy was misinterpreted into an assault against tradition:
In the US, the original tradition of celebrating Christmas was against the law.
I went to school with people of different faiths, they never complained, they joined in. So why now? Times changed? Fine, but is this really happening or is it the media and the politically correct aka fearful government?
Again, it's just a consideration of others, a courtesy to all, that's been spun into an attack on one faith, ...instead of what it is, a recognition of everybody, not just the status quo, not just the majority, ...but everybody. And it's blown out of proportion by those who seem to think that this anything other than what it is.
I've not ever met anyone who gets opffended by this, have any of you?
Only a few in the news, probably just trying to make a point, the most offended are those doing the chicken little over Christmas being "taken away" it seems.
The public can express themself how ever they want, those who serve the public are right however, to include ALL of the public.
if during the holidays someone were to say "Happy Hannakuh" to me, rather than fly into a seizure and hit speed dial on my phone to contact the ACLU.....I'd think...."Thanks, how nice."
Yet, look how many fly into a snit at the word "holiday", which includes Christmas and Hannakuh. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 9:08:57 AM | Reading some of these posts reminds me why i choose not to 100% believe in religions.Holiday season to me is a time to celebrate life...celebrate each other.No matter who believes what we are all here together.Happy holidays to me means a celebration of life so i do not feel it excludes people who do not celebrate Holidays. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 9:15:40 AM | | The look of the season in a child's eye,or even in an adult's is wonderful.I grew up with Christmas and Santa and it's amazing that even my child has commented on the "holiday" word in school.It will always be Christmas to me and the love for the season and if that offends anyone,tough luck......Im a proud born Canadian so learn to adapt to a Canadian culture.MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL AND TO ALL well you know the rest. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 162 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 11:54:04 AM | Im a proud born Canadian so learn to adapt to a Canadian culture.
http://dsp-psd.communication.gc.ca/Collection-R/LoPBdP/CIR/936-e.htm
As fact, "multiculturalism" in Canada refers to the presence and persistence of diverse racial and ethnic minorities who define themselves as different and who wish to remain so. Ideologically, multiculturalism consists of a relatively coherent set of ideas and ideals pertaining to the celebration of Canada’s cultural mosaic. Multiculturalism at the policy level is structured around the management of diversity through formal initiatives in the federal, provincial and municipal domains. Finally, multiculturalism is the process by which racial and ethnic minorities compete with central authorities for achievement of certain goals and aspirations.
I whole-heartedly agree!
Peace on earth and goodwill to ALL mankind. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 12:28:07 PM | I am not sure how "Holiday Seaon" leaves Christmas out (especially since the Christmas season also includes New Year, hardly a Christian festival).
I can see how "Christmas Season" ignores others though. This is, after all, the time for Hanukkah, Eid ul-Adha, etc. as well.
As an illustration, we had a farewell at the end of school for the holidays which wished everyone a "Happy Holiday" followed by "Merry Christmas", "Joyful Hanukkah" and "Eid Mubarak".
How would this fail to recognize Christmas for those who celebrate it while including others who celebrate a different religious festival around the same time? | |
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arri
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Joined: 10/5/2005
Msg: 164 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 12:42:55 PM | I can see how "Christmas Season" ignores others though. This is, after all, the time for Hanukkah, Eid ul-Adha, etc. as well.
Through in the Persian/Zoroastrian Yalda Night (December 21st) in there too. But none of those are as significant to jews, muslims and others as Christmas is to Christians
I see no problem for none Christians to respect Christmas for what it is in christian dominated societies.
Merry Christmas.
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 166 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 1:04:41 PM | How would this fail to recognize Christmas for those who celebrate it while including others who celebrate a different religious festival around the same time?
It doesn't.
Nor is anybody being forced to say anything, ....even "Hello" and "Goodbye" are optional.
However, those in the public service, and those who represent a business who deal with the public are usually told that there is an expectation of basic etiquette, hence:
"Hello, can I help you?"
"Goodbye, thanks for flying Westjet"
Now, are we as just everyday people compelled to respond to each other, ie:
"Hello, can I help you?"
....no, the very idea is absurd.
Consider again, public service, ....who do these people serve?
Just Christians?
....or ALL of the public?
Shouldn't the expectation of etiquette then reflect ALL of the public?
....and so, be inclusive of all including those to whom "Holiday" is nothing more than a statutory holiday?
As such, is this really "political correctness gone wild"?
Why are the most vocal "victims" here those who want to promote exclusivity?
Also, given the facts of the matter, what gives anybody the right to have the public service exclude any person because of faith or lack thereof?
Pathetic, they have removed Christ from our schools and now they wanna remove Christ from Christmas, these truely are the End Times...
And why do people continue to turn this into something it isn't?
A) IF in fact "Christ" is God, ...how can anybody remove him from anything?
B) How is "Christ" being removed from "Christmas?
Is Christmas not a "Holy day"? | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 1:21:25 PM |
Pathetic, they have removed Christ from our schools and now they wanna remove Christ from Christmas, these truely are the End Times...
You do realize that they've been talking about the End Times for over 2,000 years now. And some loonies have always felt that it's happening now. Christ's example is so amazing that even Mohamed considered him to be the only perfect man who's ever lived. Let's remember his message and not get hung up on trivialities. The most sacrificing people in our society are mostly Christians who walk the walk, and I just don't see them worrying about "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas" when there are so many things Christ wanted us to do that need to be done. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 1:30:05 PM | Excuse me, a small point here:
The long-gone OP was posting pure conjecture. Has anyone seen proof that the government is trying to change the name of the holiday, as suggested by the OP?
No.
Please find me an article that supports this contention - that there is some government conspiracy to change the name of the holiday from Christmas to something else.
Seven long pages in this thread, and no one asked if the OP was posting bullshit? | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 1:56:05 PM |
The long-gone OP was posting pure conjecture. Has anyone seen proof that the government is trying to change the name of the holiday, as suggested by the OP?
The OP didn't specify a level of government or a locale. Many lower levels of government have expunged "Merry Christmas" from the 'official' lexicon in favour of phrases like "Happy Holidays" when dealing with the public as well as removing Christian-specific decorations in favour of more neutral decoration.
I personally have no problem with "Merry Christmas", "Eid mubarak" or any other holiday greeting but basic politeness and courtesy suggests that when presenting someone with a holiday greeting that you present them with the greeting appropriate to their belief not yours.
It's a kind of gift and, like gift-giving, you can't give the wife a table saw (unless she is a carpenter/woodworker) without appearing selfish rather than generous.
Since it is too cumbersome (and to some, rude) to ask everyone what holiday they celebrate before offering a greeting, a phrase like "Happy Holidays" is both simpler and has the benefit of allowing you to offer the greeting without making a common courtesy faux-pas. | |
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 170 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 2:16:38 PM |
I see no problem for none Christians to respect Christmas for what it is in christian dominated societies.
I haven't seen this NOT be the case around here, and you live in the same town as I do, ...plenty of newcomers.
I personally have no problem with "Merry Christmas", "Eid mubarak" or any other holiday greeting but basic politeness and courtesy suggests that when presenting someone with a holiday greeting that you present them with the greeting appropriate to their belief not yours.
Basic politeness and courtesy is too much of a stretch for some, ...they call it "Political Correctness" as a disclaimer.
Since it is too cumbersome (and to some, rude) to ask everyone what holiday they celebrate before offering a greeting, a phrase like "Happy Holidays" is both simpler and has the benefit of allowing you to offer the greeting without making a common courtesy faux-pas.
Basic politeness and courtesy for all.
Simple
Logical
Inclusive
Basic politeness and courtesy.
What a concept!  | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 2:19:11 PM | The most sacrificing people in our society are mostly Christians who walk the walk, and I just don't see them worrying about "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas" when there are so many things Christ wanted us to do that need to be done.
Are the christians who posted here walking the walk because i am picking up alot of worry...the majority of our society are "sacfricial" people christian or not.Christ also wanted us to LOVE our neighbor. I don't think he meant exclude?? This issue is a perfect example of what christ wanted us to do. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 2:40:13 PM | The main thing I, personally, would prefer is that no religion is singled out for exclusion. i.e any business telling their employees they cannot wish customers a Merry Christmas. Merry Christmas/Happy Holidays (which I usually say when I want to include Christmas and New Year).. either/or.
I think where some are seeing problems is being told they cannot say/greet with Merry Christmas.
Anyway,... Merry Christmas & Happy Holidays to ALL!
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late™
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Joined: 1/9/2005
Msg: 173 | |
| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 3:28:31 PM | The main thing I, personally, would prefer is that no religion is singled out for exclusion.
Happy Holidays - Holiday Season - Season's Greetings - Best Wishes for the Season
= No religion excluded
any business telling their employees they cannot wish customers a Merry Christmas.
Would any quit over this if it was explained that a generic salutation includes everybody, employee and patron alike?
For me the obvious choice is to let the customer decide. If they say "Merry Christmas" ...there you go, if they say "Happy Holidays"? there you have it, ...if they say nothing? ..."Thank You, have a good evening" works pretty good, if Happy Holidays gets stuck in your throat.
The most sacrificing people in our society are mostly Christians who walk the walk, and I just don't see them worrying about "Happy Holidays" vs "Merry Christmas" when there are so many things Christ wanted us to do that need to be done.
Yup, I grew up in a Christian home, old world, not Evangelical or B-thumper type, ....my folks were conscious of courtesy, respect and basic human dignity for all. Both my parents had a grace I can only try to emulate. They did not take offense easily, and went out of their way to not offend others, ....courtesy, respect, basic human dignity.
Are the christians who posted here walking the walk because i am picking up alot of worry...the majority of our society are "sacfricial" people christian or not.Christ also wanted us to LOVE our neighbor. I don't think he meant exclude?? This issue is a perfect example of what christ wanted us to do.
I agree.
On a side note, the last two people who wished me a Merry Christmas were both Muslims, newcomers to Canada, ...one was a stranger, a cab driver from Pakistan, ...the other was the guy who delivers my pizza, "Moe", ...who I always great as, "Hello brother", or "My friend!", I treat him with respect and courtesy, ...and I tip well.
Yesterday I was short, probably about $2 short on the delivery, I over-estimated what I had in my wallet, I probably over-tipped the cab driver.
I told him I would drop by after I went to the bank and he said, "Oh no! ...you are a regular customer and our friend... it's not a problem, Merry Christmas!"
I love those guys...
Ahhh...
A lot of folks seem to blame immigrants for this perceived "ATTACK ON CHRISTMAS!", ...my paternal grandparents and my maternal great-great-grandparents were immigrants. I accord immigrants the respect I would my own ancestors, ...after all, they were immigrants too, and my paternal grandfather? He was a Luthern pastor, ...I'm positive he approves.
Alas, ...This time of year is neither Merry, nor Happy for me, my mother passed away a year ago Dec. 24th.
Needless to say, ....I prefer Happy Holidays, ...Christmas doesn't offend me, ....it isn't however, ....merry.
I'm watching a panel discussion with a Rabbi, a Pastor and an Imam right now....
None are taking offense with "Happy Holidays".... what a concept.
The Imam nailed it, "It promotes inclusiveness", ...the Rabbi just agreed, as did the Pastor.
Three very wise men....
Peace on Earth goodwill to ALL mankind. | |
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| Changing to Christmas Season to the Holiday Season??????
Posted: 12/23/2006 7:22:49 PM | I was recently debating whether or not creationism should be taught along side evolutionin one of the threads on this site. The general consensus was that religion has no place in schools.
If that is the case, then Christmas songs should also not be played at schools. On the same note, kids shouldn't be allowed to color pictures of Santa, Christmas trees, Easter eggs, or any other icons assorted with religious holidays.
We are living in an increasingly "politically correct" world in which the majority must take into account the voices of the minorities. We do this in attempt to respect the rights of others and to make sure all people, men, women, and children, regardless of biological or religious differences, are viewed as equals.
December seems to be a big month for holidays that many people celebrate in many different ways. The term, "Happy Holidays" seems appropriate for the government at all levels to adopt. It can still be said with warmth and love. It can also be said without offending anyone.
This doesn't stop anyone from celebrating holidays in their own personal ways. If I were to wish a Jewish person, Merry Christmas, I would hope he can wish me a Happy Hanukuh and neither of us take offense. I would hope that we can appreciate each other's warm wishes for what they are.
As to what kids sing in schools... I really enjoyed my kids' Christmas concerts the last couple of years. Last year, all of the schools up here had a "Christmas Around the World" theme where the kids learned that there are many ways of celebrating the holidays. This year was a more traditional Christmas concert. Of the two, I think the true spirit of the holidays was better captured by showing how different faiths celebrate this season.
This Santa character... He's basically been given the role of a god. He sees all. He knows all. He rewards the good kids. He's even been known to punish the bad kids (or give them over to Black Pete). Why is it that we all want our kids to believe in Santa? Wouldn't it be nicer to teach them that the spirit of this season is all about thinking about others instead of themselves?
Then there's this whole Christmas thing... Celebrating Jesus's birthday... It's my understanding that Jesus wasn't even born on Christmas day. He was born sometime in July if I'm not mistaken. It's also my understanding that Christmas day was invented to coincide with the winter solstice. This was done in an effort to convert Pagans so they could continue to celebrate the birth of a new year... by celebrating Christ's birth.
As far as kids singing songs, coloring pictures, or doing anything else that may be considered religious in schools... I personally have no problems with it but if the government wants to abolish religion in schools, I support that sentiment. However, I feel there must be something done to replace it. As for Christmas Concerts... I think our children would learn much more by calling them "Holiday" concerts. Let the kids color pictures of mangers and stars, dreidles, menorahs, or whatever else. Have a couple of mini lessons about what these holidays are about and stress the virtue of generosity. If the kids have further questions about a particular religion, teachers should encourage the kids to ask their parents, visit the library, church, cinagogue, mosque, or whatever.
I saw a sign once that I really liked. It was a big red poster with gold writing. It had, "Happy Holidays" written in the center and things like, "Merry Christmas", "Happy Hanukuh", "Joyeux Noel", "Happy New Year", and other holiday wishes written all around it. I'm sure there were many people that were insulted at the existence of such a sign but for me, it's an effort to include everyone in celebrating SOMETHING during this season.
As for me, I'll just wish you all a Very Merry Christmas before I dash off to wrap my kids' presents from Santa.  | |
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