| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/4/2005 11:03:03 AM | tewq36.....sorry but your incorrect. The Canada Elections Act defines what is a spoiled ballot and writing None of the Above is covered by (e)
Rejection of ballots
284. (1) In examining the ballots, the deputy returning officer shall reject one
(a) that has not been supplied by him or her;
(b) that has not been marked in a circle at the right of the candidates' names;
(c) that is void by virtue of section 76;
(d) that has been marked in more than one circle at the right of the candidates' names; or
(e) on which there is any writing or mark by which the elector could be identified. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/4/2005 11:07:45 AM | "I don't care how you spoil it just spoil it. That is my point."
whether you spoil it or don't vote there is no difference between the two. That is why there needs to be a None of the Above option on the ballot
I just noticed your edit
no one whould know if you made a mistake on your ballot or if you knowly spoiled it. Here is what they do with the unmarked and spoiled ballots.
Rejected ballots
(2) The deputy returning officer shall place into separate envelopes the rejected ballots, the registration certificates and the list of electors, and shall seal the envelopes.
Documents to be enclosed in a large envelope
(3) The deputy returning officer shall seal in a large envelope supplied for the purpose
(a) the envelopes that contain the marked ballots for the candidates, any spoiled ballots, unused ballots or rejected ballots, and the official list of electors; and
(b) any other election documents, except for the envelopes that contain the statements of the vote and the registration certificates.
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/4/2005 11:37:28 AM | Been There, Done that. But I am a trusting honest person and when put among experienced and motivated Back Stabbers, I will get my Back Stabbed.
One of the misconceptions of our culture is that "The Cream always rises to the top'?
The truth is that the scum rises to the top. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/4/2005 11:59:51 AM | trewq36...
"spoiling your ballot with "purpose" sends a message"
it may be a message in your view but it's a message that will never be heard. The only ballots that send a message are ones that keep the current ball rolling. Even if you join a political party you will have to play the game by their rules. The politcal circus cannot be changed from within. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/4/2005 12:03:58 PM | One of the misconceptions of our culture is that "The Cream always rises to the top'?
The truth is that the scum rises to the top.
the truth sir..is actually..
both.
But I am a trusting honest person and when put among experienced and motivated Back Stabbers, I will get my Back Stabbed
And a few blades can take you down that fast?
"Go with the flow, FLOW AS YOU GO" ;)
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....my thoughts?
Posted: 11/4/2005 12:57:10 PM | I couldn't find a booky to bet that he'd be cleared. Not even booky's are that stupid.
I think we have more 'coniving' going on than the Royal Family does.
OT I understand and agree with the concept of 'spoiled ballot overflow'.
Problem is us Canucks are so used to 'being nice', it wouldn't be 'polite' to spoil a ballot. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/7/2005 2:32:21 PM | frrosty
Joining any given ppolitical party..take your poic..flip a coin..and MAKING a difference.....MAKING CHANGES sends a bigger message..
DUDE.
i know you are an idealist but if you really think that canadian voters (who can barely get themselves to the polls) will really put themselves out there and get involved in politics, then you are truly deluding yourself. do you realize the amount of time and effort it would take to just get involved, much less institute change within our current political system? most canadians don't have the time or feel able to deal with party reform, much less electoral reform. period. and if you were hinting that perhaps we should run ourselves if we don't like the people elected....i don't have the financial resources to do so. most canadians don't.
certified - appreciate your comments about the election act and how spoiled ballots are defined and treated. i realize spoiling your ballot doesn't count as a vote of no confidence in the various parties. but if canadian voters feel compelled to vote (it is a right after all) then spoiling my ballot is my way of saying i don't like any of them. i don't trust any of them. and even if i am the only one who knows how i voted, then so be it. at least i went out to vote. almost half of this country doesn't. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/7/2005 2:50:03 PM | Just admit that you don't care about ethics or your money (and other people's money) being stolen. You don't care about corruption, greed and people being shafted. But, don't give the B.S. that there's no choices at all (a choice is to not vote which means not voting for the Liberals!) or that everyone is the same so you might as well vote for the Liberals.
Harsh truth......but truth indeed. The comments that these are addressed to really did come down to the above mentioned.
you can care about ethics or your own money and corruption and greed and people getting shafted and still vote for the liberals, conservatives, ndp, bloc, etc. canadians have forked over their tax dollars for decades and continue to do so to politicians who waste their money, embroil themselves in scandal and do idiotic things. do we stop paying taxes? do we sue the gov't? nope. but we still care about how much of our public monies are allocated and will often vote out a gov't that does not spend dollars on things we consider most important - healthcare being right up there. if we were an unethical people, why the hell would we care if the poorest of the poor have access to appropriate healthcare? why would we maintain a social welfare system at all? let it be a free for all where corruption and greed dictate where the money goes...
canadians are ethical for the most part. they do care about corruption and greed and people getting shafted. but canadians also have to work to feed their families, put a roof over their heads, and maintain their ability to live a good quality of life. sometimes, putting your head down to the grindstone and you simply cannot enact change enough to fight the corruption in gov't or corporate greed, etc. at some point, you do abdicate responsibility - we all do.
if musik and frrosty are so much more incensed than other canadian voters, so disgusted by corruption and greed, i wonder what the both of you might be doing to enact that change more than the average canadian voter? so much so that you feel you can criticize others for not doing more....then tell me please how what you're doing is actually working? | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/7/2005 3:29:04 PM | | Singlemaltgirl.....I can appreciate your attempt to show your rejection of the politicians. I doubt that they will ever include a "None of the Above" choice on the ballot. If they did I think there would be so many votes for that option that the politicians would be forced to make drastic changes in the fundemental make up of the government. But unfortunately the politicians control the way the game is played and I don't see any politician brave enough to be honest. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/7/2005 11:44:49 PM |
but if canadian voters feel compelled to vote (it is a right after all) then spoiling my ballot is my way of saying i don't like any of them.
Well said. No argument here.
But then, you say this:
you can care about ethics or your own money and corruption and greed and people getting shafted and still vote for the liberals, conservatives, ndp, bloc, etc.
No, you can't. You're either against corruption/unethical behavior or you feel indifferent. You either vote for a different party or the Liberals.
they do care about corruption and greed and people getting shafted.
No, they don't. Not if they're re-electing the Liberal Party. The Liberal Party needs to be voted out and a major overhaul. They need to get rid of many of their members and generate an entire new generation of politicians.
i wonder what the both of you might be doing to enact that change more than the average canadian voter?
By myself? I can't do much. However, my part in NOT voting for the Liberals is something. I will likely vote for the Greens. I don't care if people say it's a 'wasted vote.' If everyone always has that attitude, then we'd be stuck with the old style parties forever and then 'nothing would ever work' and there would be no possibility of change at all.
I'm quite cynical. I don't really think anyone can do a whole helluva lot. The system is a reflection of society as a whole but that's another topic. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/8/2005 10:14:19 PM | but if you really think that canadian voters (who can barely get themselves to the polls) will really put themselves out there and get involved in politics, then you are truly deluding yourself.
Hoi? You mean nobody is IN politics!!??
um...EEK!! Who are those people in the commons then!!??
*scratches head*
EEK!! GHOSTS!!
do you realize the amount of time and effort it would take to just get involved, much less institute change within our current political system?
 You really really have no clue. My answer dear is....
yes; I do.
if musik and frrosty are so much more incensed than other canadian voters
Pardon me?
then tell me please how what you're doing is actually working?
LMAO...you wish. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/9/2005 6:57:38 AM | | I do not think Paul Martin should have been exhonarated! The fact is that he was Finance Minister, and he should have been aware, or had some knowledge. It sickens me that so many can get away with the "I didn't know" excuse. It was his JOB to know!! That is why he was being paid the big bucks!! If he had any morals, he would at the very minimum apologize for being so inept! | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/9/2005 8:45:10 AM | frrosty - most canadians believe their elected representatives are corrupt for the most part. these are the same canadians who keep electing those people in the commons (or spoil their ballots in disgust). so the majority of canadians are NOT in politics - even if you were to add all those voters who contribute and have a m'ship card within any current canadian party you will still have a minority of canadians involved in politics. apathy, disgust, the feeling that they cannot enact any change...may all be reasons why more canadians aren't involved. but the fact is the majority of canadian voters are not IN politics.
and if you truly realized the amount of time and resources required to be IN politics (as you say you do), you would also be fairly understanding of the fact that the vast majority of canadians voters neither have the time or resources to enact real substantive change to the party and electoral system. you wouldn't be offering a flippant "flip a coin, join a party....etc." to frustrated canadian voters... asking them to do that is almost as effective as spoiling your ballot, don't you think? | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/10/2005 7:28:03 PM | you wouldn't be offering a flippant "flip a coin, join a party....etc." to frustrated canadian voters... asking them to do that is almost as effective as spoiling your ballot, don't you think?
No.
Mine is a pro-active move. Yours is a rejection of Government period.
(very different in fact)
that the vast majority of canadians voters neither have the time or resources to enact real substantive change to the party and electoral system.
That is why "the collective" is so important.
Maltgirl? WHat would YOU have the Canadian people do to change things for the better? Are you hinting that we should just say good bye to Government period? Tell Ottawa that we do not want anyone in charge? I hear whining; but no solutions. (sorry; but it's very true) | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/14/2005 12:51:13 PM | frrosty - no i'm not out for anarchy. the corruption of our current politicians remains far preferable to a state without gov't.
i agree, it was a whine and a rant....i'm frustrated and don't see change evolving from the "collective" b/c i don't think there is enough in the collective able to make the change necessary. i'm resigned as are most canadians....
i appreciate your desire to want things to be better, all canadians i think do want what you want, including me. and i appreciate your idealism. it's just that i'm a realist now. i was much like you in believing in collective change back in my university days....and exhausted myself with the effort of trying to help effect that change. nothing happened and now i'm cynical and old... | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/15/2005 7:24:53 AM |
i know you are an idealist
singlemalt
frosty may be an idealist, Gandhi was an idealist, so was Martin Luthor King. All it takes is an idealist with an agenda and a willingness to be a sh*tdisturber to make people sit up and take notice.
I really don't like the Liberals, fear the Conservatives would sell Canada out to the US like what happened in the 1960's with the Avro Arrow/Beaumark Missile scandal-Diefenbaker was a fool, the US played him for a sucker and he should have listened to Lincoln Alexander's council. The NDP balances its books worse than I do and they, despite their good intentions are as wishywashy as Charlie Brown.
I think it's time we had a sneaky, devious, dishonest, backstabbing politician with an agenda to make Canada a world power to be respected by all and feared by those who seek to cheat us in power. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/15/2005 10:18:29 AM | hey dapi
i didn't mean to imply that i was putting frrosty down for his idealism. a few posts back i found some of his suggestions flippant...but if he really believes in change and doing something to make that change, good on him.
as for the political parties of canada - you've pretty summed up all my feelings about the libs, conservatives and ndpers....
it sounds like you are looking for machiavelli. i don't think he exists in canada. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/15/2005 12:33:56 PM | marita
Mikey is crazy, I should know I worked with his PR team when he came to Japan in the 80's. He took over the top several floors of the Tokyu Capitol Hotel for the duration of his stay. Frankly, Bubbles was smarter than his boss.
trewq
Well if we're looking for a machiavellian, sneaky, devious, dishonest, backstabbing politician with an agenda, then he already is Prime Minister.
The PM is a wimp, we need someone really nasty, really amoral like Sir John A MacDonald was in his heyday. Now there was a man who was so bad and so good at pulling the wool over peoples' eyes he was knighted. He sold the Yanks a bill of goods-Canada profited, he ripped off the party (Tory) and the people, was ousted and re-elected in a landslide, he ran circles around the British Parliament and was always up for a dirty deed.
But...We can't have everything. I guess we'll just have to settle for second rate goods like Martin. | |
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| Gomery report is out & exonerates Paul Martin....your thoughts?
Posted: 11/15/2005 12:36:01 PM | The Liberals are going down in a firey ball of corrupt crash and burn fieryness, mark my words, I mean this is just their death throws we are watching here, amusing as they are, there is no coming back for a while.
Amung the strongest "how you will vote correlates" is how your parents voted, so sure Fiberal blow hards are going to try and justify this lastest act of corruption, you know try to fit it into their world view somehow. Try to rationalize the corruption not only to themselves, but especially to other people. Everything the Fiberals do from tax cuts to multiculturalism, to lying about dismantling the gst and health care, it is always only about cold hard votes, and people know it, Canadians are smarter then you realize, and they are ready for a change.
The fact is he was the Finance Minister, and while he balanced the budget, he also dismantled the holy cow of health care to its present state of disrepair. He is the King of Neo-Conservatism, and the political tides are now fully swinging the other way. Martin is to the big C, what Eaves was to Harris in Ontario.
The fiberal peace nicks fear our joining the IRAQ war, the fact is the Canadian Armed forces have been so dismantled by liberal neo-conservative spending cuts, that even if the Government wanted to help, or even for example, wanted to protect itself, we simply do not have the military means anymore.
Maybe they secretly want Quebec to Separate, and have dismantled things to the state where we cannot stop them. The Liberals were the ones who gave Quebec the legal issue upon which every single referendum has been mounted upon, the fact that we amended the constitutional papers in the form of the charter of rights and freedoms WITHOUT the consent of Quebec. I would belive almost anything from the Fiberals after this latest nonsense... What about the Gun Registry, what about the billion gone missing in HR? Which buddies got all of that?
You wanna do a little experiment on Canadian politics, do a couple of searches in these here forums and tell me how many threads are about a Canadian political issue besides sponsorship, you think Canadians are going to forget? We have only begun to remember, the details after all have just been published, I imagine by Valentines day there will be a new government in power.
By the by, the airbus kick back issue was to the meager tune of three hundred thousand, that is 300,000 Canadian dollars and we turfed the chin out for that; Well that and the gst, which the fiberals love for paying down the debt and giving cash in dirty envelopes to their buddies in the back of shifty Italian restraunts (can you hear the godfauther music playing?)
I say lets put in the Concervative Reform Alliance Party, funniest party acronym to date! The CRAP party could hardly do worse... | |
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